Dairy Chitchat 4, an udder new thread.

jaymla627

straight wrote: »

290 Kg max stocking rate on the milking platform.

https://m.independent.ie/business/farming/dairy/new-programme-signposts-teagascs-ambitious-climate-targets-for-farmers-39755600.html

That's the xmas letter teagasc would send to santa claus of how they would like stocking rates to stay at, it's a pipe dream, I'd say realistically 2 cows/ha will be what's allowed going forward

Grueller

jaymla627 wrote: »

That's the xmas letter teagasc would send to santa claus of how they would like stocking rates to stay at, it's a pipe dream, I'd say realistically 2 cows/ha will be what's allowed going forward

Whole farm I would imagine though jaymla.

RightTurnClyde

straight wrote: »

Anywhere the cows walk to I'd imagine.

Land 10 miles away, cows have good feet, I walk them over and back everyday for 3 weeks
Crazy isn't it.
Instead, I bring the grass to them and bring the slurry back. Much more sensible.
But the idiots in teagasc think idea 1 is good and 2 is bad.

Limiting the stocking rate on the mp makes no sense whatsoever. None. Limiting the Sr on the overall land farmed, however low it needs to be, makes sense.
The mp sr limit should be given no hearing.
Its bad for farmers and has is no advantage to the environment.

mahoney_j

RightTurnClyde wrote: »

Land 10 miles away, cows have good feet, I walk them over and back everyday for 3 weeks
Crazy isn't it.
Instead, I bring the grass to them and bring the slurry back. Much more sensible.
But the idiots in teagasc think idea 1 is good and 2 is bad.

Limiting the stocking rate on the mp makes no sense whatsoever. None. Limiting the Sr on the overall land farmed, however low it needs to be, makes sense.
The mp sr limit should be given no hearing.
Its bad for farmers and has is no advantage to the environment.

Amen to that .

straight

RightTurnClyde wrote: »

Land 10 miles away, cows have good feet, I walk them over and back everyday for 3 weeks
Crazy isn't it.
Instead, I bring the grass to them and bring the slurry back. Much more sensible.
But the idiots in teagasc think idea 1 is good and 2 is bad.

Limiting the stocking rate on the mp makes no sense whatsoever. None. Limiting the Sr on the overall land farmed, however low it needs to be, makes sense.
The mp sr limit should be given no hearing.
Its bad for farmers and has is no advantage to the environment.

Alot of stupid regs lately. Derogation farmers seem to be getting all kinds of stupid regs shoved on us. Sat through biodiversity course the other day and it felt worse than being back in school. 90 euro for the course. The whole thing is turning into a bit of a joke at this stage. Alot of their regs are doing more harm than good.

Birdnuts

straight wrote: »

Alot of stupid regs lately. Derogation farmers seem to be getting all kinds of stupid regs shoved on us. Sat through biodiversity course the other day and it felt worse than being back in school. 90 euro for the course. The whole thing is turning into a bit of a joke at this stage. Alot of their regs are doing more harm than good.

What makes sense for big intensive Dairy?? - I would say replacing electric fencing with native hedging would be a start. Get some biodiversity back in to those monuculture PRG fields and provide some shelter from the elements for stock. At the end of the day "Origin Green" has to based on something more than spin and BS.

mahoney_j

straight wrote: »

Alot of stupid regs lately. Derogation farmers seem to be getting all kinds of stupid regs shoved on us. Sat through biodiversity course the other day and it felt worse than being back in school. 90 euro for the course. The whole thing is turning into a bit of a joke at this stage. Alot of their regs are doing more harm than good.

I’m doing one in December 90 euro for a zoom course on top of 495 annual sub ....for what for a lot of good things tegasc do they undo most of it in spades with so much ****e

mahoney_j

Birdnuts wrote: »

What makes sense for big intensive Dairy?? - I would say replacing electric fencing with native hedging would be a start. Get some biodiversity back in to those monuculture PRG fields and provide some shelter from the elements for stock. At the end of the day "Origin Green" has to based on something more than spin and BS.

Origin green is just that ....spin constantly peddled out there where’s the reward ?????there’s none were consistently paid the worst milk price in Europe for what we’re told is the best product

Birdnuts

mahoney_j wrote: »

Origin green is just that ....spin constantly peddled out there where’s the reward ?????there’s none were consistently paid the worst milk price in Europe for what we’re told is the best product

The issue is that its not based on anything substantive - In the local LIDL they have a poster about it, no mention of biodiversity, water quality, pollinators etc. A completely cynical marketing ploy that increasingly the more informed consumer sees through. At the end of the day big dairy in Ireland is currently pretty much the same as its equivalent in the UK, NZ etc. whether the likes of DAFM, Teagasc. Bord Bia etc. want to pretend otherwise.

Gawddawggonnit

Grueller wrote: »

Teagasc selling a pup again the thick fcukers. The one farming system that can provide a living for a family on relatively small acreage and they are looking to destroy that too. I think that the farm organisations should recommend that we all use private planners. Starve them at source.

You’re a new entrant to dairying if I’m correct?

I can understand where you’re coming from but it’s very unfair to blame Teagasc for this. They’ve fought tooth and nail against nitrate regulations...and I like to think that they do this especially so those family farms that you describe can be sustained.
They’re flying a kite...first to get cut will be the MP and then followed by all the farm. On the plus side they’ll be quite ‘inventive’ on the findings from this exercise and that’ll probably gain more time.

It’s better knowing now what’s coming down the road than heavily investing into your new enterprise on the expectation that stocking rates and unlimited N are going to stay as they are.

Say my name

Birdnuts wrote: »

What makes sense for big intensive Dairy?? - I would say replacing electric fencing with native hedging would be a start. Get some biodiversity back in to those monuculture PRG fields and provide some shelter from the elements for stock. At the end of the day "Origin Green" has to based on something more than spin and BS.

Sheep and barbed wire on the ditches. Let the ditch grow. Stop advisors asking dairy farmers why have they sheep wire. Ha.
Farmers encouraged to use a spade and take pictures of their soil.
A cent per litre bonus from Bord Bia for dairy farmers who have dung beetles active on their farm. (Dung beetles reflect the health of soil and management of the farmer).
Char used in feed and char used in slurry.
Any measures to increase soil carbon rewarded with a cent per litre from the co-op. Co-op uses that for pr.

Stocking rate will be used as a sledge hammer but it's possible to farm at a stocking rate that allows farms to make a living while still farming with the environment and climate.

Mooooo

Don't have the figures but I'd reckon derogation has allowed more farms to stay viable than anything else. There would be a lot of unforeseen ( maybe they are known, I dunno) consequences if it goes, in terms of job losses within the industry and more farmers looking for outside work to put food on the table and given the age profile that may not be easy

Grueller

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

You’re a new entrant to dairying if I’m correct?

I can understand where you’re coming from but it’s very unfair to blame Teagasc for this. They’ve fought tooth and nail against nitrate regulations...and I like to think that they do this especially so those family farms that you describe can be sustained.
They’re flying a kite...first to get cut will be the MP and then followed by all the farm. On the plus side they’ll be quite ‘inventive’ on the findings from this exercise and that’ll probably gain more time.

It’s better knowing now what’s coming down the road than heavily investing into your new enterprise on the expectation that stocking rates and unlimited N are going to stay as they are.

You are correct Dawg. My whole system is based around 4+ cows to the hectare and a lot of buffer feeding of silage from out blocks. This change would put me out of business before I have started, or at least force me to build a second parlour etc on an out block.
I hope you are right and you probably are.

cosatron

in all fairness lads what did ye expect. there is a new entrant into dairy in nearly every parish, since the quotas went some lads expanded beyond there means and are going on top of there heads trying to keep the work done and you have to give away calves in the spring time as there is no market for them and lads don't have the facilities to rear them properly, this is akin to the bubble bursting in the construction industry.

Tonynewholland

Say my name wrote: »

Sheep and barbed wire on the ditches. Let the ditch grow. Stop advisors asking dairy farmers why have they sheep wire. Ha.
Farmers encouraged to use a spade and take pictures of their soil.
A cent per litre bonus from Bord Bia for dairy farmers who have dung beetles active on their farm. (Dung beetles reflect the health of soil and management of the farmer).
Char used in feed and char used in slurry.
Any measures to increase soil carbon rewarded with a cent per litre from the co-op. Co-op uses that for pr.

Stocking rate will be used as a sledge hammer but it's possible to farm at a stocking rate that allows farms to make a living while still farming with the environment and climate.

When you say make a living do you mean just enough to put food on the table. Dairy farms need continuous reinvestment and need to be making a good profit every year. Not many farmers will milk if an off farm job is needed

mahoney_j

Tonynewholland wrote: »

When you say make a living do you mean just enough to put food on the table. Dairy farms need continuous reinvestment and need to be making a good profit every year. Not many farmers will milk if an off farm job is needed

Did it for a bit when luckily my dad was around and able to do most things .no way it can be done and you’ll just burn yourself out

K.G.

A few idle thoughts thrown together.yesterday was out on a small tractor trip and spotted a friend's cows out with plenty grass ahead of them.now i know both these farmers had got more land for grazing this and hadnt moved up the stocking rate yet so still grass to graze whereas this year not a solitary blade of grass was ensiled on our home block so you can say we are maxed out.this week i watched vids of a irish family that are farming in france.they now farm 1300 acres but spoke of the isolation out there.what im getting at is you can farm at lower stocking rate if you have cheap/free land and the only way to do this is have less people farming.so its a choice for the country,lower stocking rate s or lower the number people working the land

straight

A family that moved to france. Plenty land over there.

https://youtu.be/MFFX08CDk9M

straight

K.G. wrote: »

A few idle thoughts thrown together.yesterday was out on a small tractor trip and spotted a friend's cows out with plenty grass ahead of them.now i know both these farmers had got more land for grazing this and hadnt moved up the stocking rate yet so still grass to graze whereas this year not a solitary blade of grass was ensiled on our home block so you can say we are maxed out.this week i watched vids of a irish family that are farming in france.they now farm 1300 acres but spoke of the isolation out there.what im getting at is you can farm at lower stocking rate if you have cheap/free land and the only way to do this is have less people farming.so its a choice for the country,lower stocking rate s or lower the number people working the land

What a coincidence. I had just spotted that youtube channel before I read your comment. They look like they're flying it and happy out.

Say my name

Tonynewholland wrote: »

When you say make a living do you mean just enough to put food on the table. Dairy farms need continuous reinvestment and need to be making a good profit every year. Not many farmers will milk if an off farm job is needed

I never posted otherwise. Agree completely.

My post was in response to a post about Origin Green being a sham. And it is and it isn't. It is when you see dairy farmers (and other farmers) spraying off field margins just so a briar God forbid touches the electric fence or tillage farmers spraying in case a clump of nettles is visible on the margin.
It isn't if you've farmers going off their own bat to ensure the wildlife that they inherited on farm will still be there for the next generation.

The farmers going off their own bat at present should be rewarded not that they'd want it but that it's the only currency that the farmers that don't, understand and to bring them along.

I also included that stocking rates can be kept and still farm wildlife and climate friendly. But it's the easy answer for policy makers who currently have environmentalists sending in pictures of river banks and drains sprayed off but it still won't address the problems of farmers stuck in their ways or not giving two hoots.
When pictures of Moorepark go viral with cows grazing sprayed off grass and farmers themselves see no problem there's a problem. The powers that be in government see that and it's put squarely as 'intensive' dairy farming is the cause of that. Hence stocking rates.

Farmers themselves should get off the fence and show what they can/do do and not start the poor mouth when environmentalism or Origin Green being a sham is discussed.

straight

straight wrote: »

A family that moved to france. Plenty land over there.

https://youtu.be/MFFX08CDk9M

How is land so cheap in france? Is it just the forestry putting a floor on the market here. Is there any forestry in France? I see there is 30% grant for buying machinery in france and dawg takes the piss out of us over Tams. It looks like you can go to france, buy land and make a good living out of sucklers. We're only codding ourselves in this country I'm afraid.

jaymla627

straight wrote: »

How is land so cheap in france? Is it just the forestry putting a floor on the market here. Is there any forestry in France? I see there is 30% grant for buying machinery in france and dawg takes the piss out of us over Tams. It looks like you can go to france, buy land and make a good living out of sucklers. We're only codding ourselves in this country I'm afraid.

It's not that land is cheap out their, its more a case that land in Ireland is overpriced in alot of areas borne out of an almost frenzied mindset and obsession Irish people have with it

K.G.

straight wrote: »

How is land so cheap in france? Is it just the forestry putting a floor on the market here. Is there any forestry in France? I see there is 30% grant for buying machinery in france and dawg takes the piss out of us over Tams. It looks like you can go to france, buy land and make a good living out of sucklers. We're only codding ourselves in this country I'm afraid.

Yes and you keep the sfp if your e renting so free land or be paid to farm

straight

jaymla627 wrote: »

It's not that land is cheap out their, its more a case that land in Ireland is overpriced in alot of areas borne out of an almost frenzied mindset and obsession Irish people have with it

Well forestry is paying 6k per acre here. Why don't they buy up france. I remember cheap land in Ireland before forestry drove the price up. It was 1k to 1500 in the early 90's.

Tonynewholland

Say my name wrote: »

I never posted otherwise. Agree completely.

My post was in response to a post about Origin Green being a sham. And it is and it isn't. It is when you see dairy farmers (and other farmers) spraying off field margins just so a briar God forbid touches the electric fence or tillage farmers spraying in case a clump of nettles is visible on the margin.
It isn't if you've farmers going off their own bat to ensure the wildlife that they inherited on farm will still be there for the next generation.

The farmers going off their own bat at present should be rewarded not that they'd want it but that it's the only currency that the farmers that don't, understand and to bring them along.

I also included that stocking rates can be kept and still farm wildlife and climate friendly. But it's the easy answer for policy makers who currently have environmentalists sending in pictures of river banks and drains sprayed off but it still won't address the problems of farmers stuck in their ways or not giving two hoots.
When pictures of Moorepark go viral with cows grazing sprayed off grass and farmers themselves see no problem there's a problem. The powers that be in government see that and it's put squarely as 'intensive' dairy farming is the cause of that. Hence stocking rates.

Farmers themselves should get off the fence and show what they can/do do and not start the poor mouth when environmentalism or Origin Green being a sham is discussed.

It’s not only farmers. I was getting some supplies delivered earlier this year and here was a pallet of 5 gallon containers on the truck. I asked if all that was for just one farmer. No. It’s for a landscaping company. I wouldn’t use that amount in 20 years I’d say
Do they keep records of use and inspected often

Mooooo

France is a more socialist country so there are caps on land prices and rents etc afaik in different parts. Europe is a fairly diverse place so one set of rules simply isn't going to work.

straight

Taafe is selling heifers in dungannon now. 2600 pounds. People allowed in the mart up there.

alps

mahoney_j wrote: »

Origin green is just that ....spin constantly peddled out there where’s the reward ?????there’s none were consistently paid the worst milk price in Europe for what we’re told is the best product

And dont expect a reward for it either...

Sustainability is mainstream..

Sat through a presentation last week from the Sustainability Manager from the company who own Cadbury, Barry-Callebaut..

In lieu of doing their own inspections, they accept the accreditation from Origin Green for their suppliers of milk in Ireland.

You dont want these companies doing that inspection which will cover all aspects from animal welfare, environment, sustainability etc..

This is mainstream in every industry...if you want to continue to supply food to the people of this world, you got to do this..

No accreditation....no supply..

And our accreditation is light touch....very light touch


How many yards do you honestly think you could walk a foreign buyer into without notice?

Gman1987

alps wrote: »

And dont expect a reward for it either...

Sustainability is mainstream..

Sat through a presentation last week from the Sustainability Manager from the company who own Cadbury, Barry-Callebaut..

In lieu of doing their own inspections, they accept the accreditation from Origin Green for their suppliers of milk in Ireland.

You dont want these companies doing that inspection which will cover all aspects from animal welfare, environment, sustainability etc..

This is mainstream in every industry...if you want to continue to supply food to the people of this world, you got to do this..

No accreditation....no supply..

And our accreditation is light touch....very light touch


How many yards do you honestly think you could walk a foreign buyer into without notice?

Sustainability is more that just about the environment. You should have asked that Sustainability Manager what they are doing as a business to ensure the long term viability of their dairy suppliers which is in turn the viability of Dairy farmers. Barry-Callebaut buy on price and will change supplier for a fiver!!

Say my name

straight wrote: »

A family that moved to france. Plenty land over there.

https://youtu.be/MFFX08CDk9M

And two son's have turned their back on it and another sibling not sure if it's the career path they should take.

If farming is negative here it must be ten times worse in France.