Dairy Chitchat 4, an udder new thread.

straight

Gman1987 wrote: »

Sustainability is more that just about the environment. You should have asked that Sustainability Manager what they are doing as a business to ensure the long term viability of their dairy suppliers which is in turn their suppliers. Barry-Callebaut buy on price and will change supplier for a fiver!!

Let them eat cake.

straight

Say my name wrote: »

And two son's have turned their back on it and another sibling not sure if it's the career path they should take.

If farming is negative here it must be ten times worse in France.

More isolating over there. It must be fairly bleak if that's the case.

Gawddawggonnit

K.G. wrote: »

so its a choice for the country,lower stocking rate s or lower the number people working the land

It’s the environment K.G. Its not a political or economic decision by the Irish Government.
Bruxelles just won’t have it.
From talking to UK farmers they all support Brexit because of the Environmental Regs coming down the line. Each one of them were perfectly happy to relinquish their SFP so as not to be constantly harassed by EU regs.

Gawddawggonnit

straight wrote: »

How is land so cheap in france? Is it just the forestry putting a floor on the market here. Is there any forestry in France? I see there is 30% grant for buying machinery in france and dawg takes the piss out of us over Tams. It looks like you can go to france, buy land and make a good living out of sucklers. We're only codding ourselves in this country I'm afraid.

Just to put you straight...yes pun intended!
There’s a 30% machinery grant available to buy new kit, but that grant is for CUMA. CUMA is kinda like a machinery ring where the machine is owned by CUMA and is charged out by the hour/acre/km to the farmers. The charge includes repayments, depreciation and wearing parts. You pay for shares in the CUMA (kinda like a Coop) and pay your fees after that.
I’m involved in three of them but it’d be a cold day in hell before I’d use a machine from them.
The last time I used one of their machines the president of that CUMA called to the yard telling me that I need to learn how to grease a pto properly...this from a bollix that has a farm of 8.5ha with a couple of turkey houses. You can imagine how diplomatic and courteous I was...

Gawddawggonnit

Mooooo wrote: »

France is a more socialist country so there are caps on land prices and rents etc afaik in different parts. Europe is a fairly diverse place so one set of rules simply isn't going to work.

Caps on land rental only. Land speculation is not allowed to all and sundry...only farmers can speculate.

Gawddawggonnit

straight wrote: »

More isolating over there. It must be fairly bleak if that's the case.

I don’t know the family. I’ve just seen the vids.
IMO they’re in ‘la France profond’ or deep France. Yes there’s some areas there that suffer from net emigration but what extreme rural area doesn’t.

In my estimation they’re in Limoges or somewhere like that. It certainly wouldn’t be the Northern European plain but hats off to anyone that was a working mechanic and ends up with 1300acres.
I often wish we were in la France profond. We’re very close to a major city and the hassle caused by city folk living in the countryside can be hard to take. Cops are called for serious transgressions like a bit of dirt on the road from tractor tyres etc etc.

Gawddawggonnit

Viewed a dairy farm this afternoon.
224ha. Three blocks. 208ha grade 2 arable and the rest permanent pasture. 200 cubicles for milkers and rotary parlor. All new in 2010.
Plenty housing for followers, straw/hay storage sheds new in 2015. Etc etc.
70ha irrigable.
EBITDA on good years nearly €400k and the worst was €280k.
SFP €53k.
I didn’t bid because they told me two Irish brothers viewed it last week.

Mooooo

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Viewed a dairy farm this afternoon.
224ha. Three blocks. 208ha grade 2 arable and the rest permanent pasture. 200 cubicles for milkers and rotary parlor. All new in 2010.
Plenty housing for followers, straw/hay storage sheds new in 2015. Etc etc.
70ha irrigable.


I didn’t bid because they told me two Irish brothers viewed it last week.

What's grade 2 arable? Is it an area that can be grazed thru the year or is more suitable to maize/ lucerne etc?

Gawddawggonnit

Mooooo wrote: »

What's grade 2 arable? Is it an area that can be grazed thru the year or is more suitable to maize/ lucerne etc?

Eg. Paris basin would be grade 1.

Waffletraktor

Mooooo wrote: »

What's grade 2 arable? Is it an area that can be grazed thru the year or is more suitable to maize/ lucerne etc?

Grade :1
Sandy-Silt corner of the loam triangle. Decent characteristics like drainage and easy to work that's forgiving to abuse. Ideal veg ground.
Pure boy's ground.
Grade :2 more clay and stone less useable for veg good for combinables

Injuryprone

I wouldn't be surprised to see a milking platform stocking rate limit coming in. High mp stocking rates absolutely do have an effect on the environment, whether people would like to admit it or not.

I've a neighbour that was farming to his limit (120 cows) on the home farm in the quota years. Good farmer, was a monitor farm, everything done perfect.

There's now over 400 in the place in the same ground. With zero grazing going full time and silage bale heaps in every corner. I'd often be tieing in the cows during the summer at 8 or 9 o clock and all you'd hear is cows balling (I dunno, maybe he's on the way back with a load of grass. He's around a mile from me) It's commonly being said around the place that the cows just go out now for a lie down. The umbilical contractor could nearly afford to dedicate a machine exclusively to him, he's there so often. In another couple of years, I could definitely see him putting them in full time. I've nothing against him, he's definitely farming well within all the current regulations. But, I guess, there's something nearly fraudulent about the direction the likes of him are going with the way our products are portrayed. And that doesn't sit well with me.

What I guess it comes down to is that once the outside block is further than say a couple of miles away, the slurry is almost never drawn in the quantities that it should be, for economic reasons. If we're going to go down the intensive route then we should just be open about it instead of pretending to be free range as bord bia would sometimes have you believe.

K.G.

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

It’s the environment K.G. Its not a political or economic decision by the Irish Government.
Bruxelles just won’t have it.
From talking to UK farmers they all support Brexit because of the Environmental Regs coming down the line. Each one of them were perfectly happy to relinquish their SFP so as not to be constantly harassed by EU regs.

But the regs are going to be there no matter wether they are in eu or out.the way governments have acted for years is when any regulation were needed they sent out to brussels and then sold it as coming from Brussels but it had to come in anyway. In relation to stocking rate will we just go iny miney mo or what because the problem is we have too many "farmers" in Ireland.we badly need rationalisation

straight

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

I don’t know the family. I’ve just seen the vids.
IMO they’re in ‘la France profond’ or deep France. Yes there’s some areas there that suffer from net emigration but what extreme rural area doesn’t.

In my estimation they’re in Limoges or somewhere like that. It certainly wouldn’t be the Northern European plain but hats off to anyone that was a working mechanic and ends up with 1300acres.
I often wish we were in la France profond. We’re very close to a major city and the hassle caused by city folk living in the countryside can be hard to take. Cops are called for serious transgressions like a bit of dirt on the road from tractor tyres etc etc.

Eastern france I think. Ya, fair play to him and he had great help from his whole family it looks like.

richie123

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Viewed a dairy farm this afternoon.
224ha. Three blocks. 208ha grade 2 arable and the rest permanent pasture. 200 cubicles for milkers and rotary parlor. All new in 2010.
Plenty housing for followers, straw/hay storage sheds new in 2015. Etc etc.
70ha irrigable.
EBITDA on good years nearly €400k and the worst was €280k.
SFP €53k.
I didn’t bid because they told me two Irish brothers viewed it last week.

What does ebitda mean ? Total income ?

alps

Gman1987 wrote: »

Sustainability is more that just about the environment. You should have asked that Sustainability Manager what they are doing as a business to ensure the long term viability of their dairy suppliers which is in turn the viability of Dairy farmers. Barry-Callebaut buy on price and will change supplier for a fiver!!

And to make things more alarming...

The multinationals drive all this...its not coming from the consumer...the consumer will pay zilch towards the environment...

These companies want "imolementable solutions, which can then be brought forward to guide policy makers to provide the framework for local of global food system transformation"


You can see where all this is coming from....

straight

richie123 wrote: »

What does ebitda mean ? Total income ?

Earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization

mahoney_j

Injuryprone wrote: »

I wouldn't be surprised to see a milking platform stocking rate limit coming in. High mp stocking rates absolutely do have an effect on the environment, whether people would like to admit it or not.

I've a neighbour that was farming to his limit (120 cows) on the home farm in the quota years. Good farmer, was a monitor farm, everything done perfect.

There's now over 400 in the place in the same ground. With zero grazing going full time and silage bale heaps in every corner. I'd often be tieing in the cows during the summer at 8 or 9 o clock and all you'd hear is cows balling (I dunno, maybe he's on the way back with a load of grass. He's around a mile from me) It's commonly being said around the place that the cows just go out now for a lie down. The umbilical contractor could nearly afford to dedicate a machine exclusively to him, he's there so often. In another couple of years, I could definitely see him putting them in full time. I've nothing against him, he's definitely farming well within all the current regulations. But, I guess, there's something nearly fraudulent about the direction the likes of him are going with the way our products are portrayed. And that doesn't sit well with me.

What I guess it comes down to is that once the outside block is further than say a couple of miles away, the slurry is almost never drawn in the quantities that it should be, for economic reasons. If we're going to go down the intensive route then we should just be open about it instead of pretending to be free range as bord bia would sometimes have you believe.

Few points high Sr do have impact on environment ...explain please
That guy farming years ago with 120 u say stocked to the limit ,clearly not if milking 400 now
If cows go in full time so be it
U see it as fraduelent the way he’s going with the way our products are portrayed ...it makes no odds there’s no premium for the spin bord bia ,ornua etc put on our milk
Often farms like this are badly fragmented ,we’re all not blessed to have most of our land in one block we got to manage it how we see fit within the rules lots now starting to to deals where slurry and fym are worked into deals for maize,grass silage ,wholecrop,beet etc

kevthegaff

Injuryprone wrote: »

I wouldn't be surprised to see a milking platform stocking rate limit coming in. High mp stocking rates absolutely do have an effect on the environment, whether people would like to admit it or not.

I've a neighbour that was farming to his limit (120 cows) on the home farm in the quota years. Good farmer, was a monitor farm, everything done perfect.

There's now over 400 in the place in the same ground. With zero grazing going full time and silage bale heaps in every corner. I'd often be tieing in the cows during the summer at 8 or 9 o clock and all you'd hear is cows balling (I dunno, maybe he's on the way back with a load of grass. He's around a mile from me) It's commonly being said around the place that the cows just go out now for a lie down. The umbilical contractor could nearly afford to dedicate a machine exclusively to him, he's there so often. In another couple of years, I could definitely see him putting them in full time. I've nothing against him, he's definitely farming well within all the current regulations. But, I guess, there's something nearly fraudulent about the direction the likes of him are going with the way our products are portrayed. And that doesn't sit well with me.

What I guess it comes down to is that once the outside block is further than say a couple of miles away, the slurry is almost never drawn in the quantities that it should be, for economic reasons. If we're going to go down the intensive route then we should just be open about it instead of pretending to be free range as bord bia would sometimes have you believe.

Theres a few lads like that in every parish

Birdnuts

Tonynewholland wrote: »

It’s not only farmers. I was getting some supplies delivered earlier this year and here was a pallet of 5 gallon containers on the truck. I asked if all that was for just one farmer. No. It’s for a landscaping company. I wouldn’t use that amount in 20 years I’d say
Do they keep records of use and inspected often

Defo needs to be addressed - I would ban garden centres getting hold of it before farmers.

Siamsa Sessions

Birdnuts wrote: »

Defo needs to be addressed - I would ban garden centres getting hold of it before farmers.

No votes in squeezing gardeners, same as dog control. They’re both bigger voter groups than us dirty oul polluting farmers. I see the IFJ has gone with “new quota” as its front page this week.

Seems no matter the reality, it’s the big intensive farms that are being thrown out there as the bad guys. Ireland Inc needs a green image to keep exporting so the sacrificial lamb looks to be derogation?

jaymla627

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

No votes in squeezing gardeners, same as dog control. They’re both bigger voter groups than us dirty oul polluting farmers. I see the IFJ has gone with “new quota” as its front page this week.

Seems no matter the reality, it’s the big intensive farms that are being thrown out there as the bad guys. Ireland Inc needs a green image to keep exporting so the sacrificial lamb looks to be derogation?

Hows it's actually enforceable what they are suggesting, it's not, once you comply with whatever the nitrate limits are in the future then they can go whistle, simply say your housing your herd year round and they legally have no course of action to take against you unless they bring in some bats**t crazy new regulations that are specific to Ireland, as on the continent the vast majority of dairy cows don't see a field, and don't worry glanbia and co will have no bother collecting your milk in the above scenario as they will be very anxious to keep milk flowing into all the new plants and present they need alot of milk for

atlantic mist

why does ireland need the "green image" we get paid the lowest if not second lowest international price in the world...does the green image matter so much when we sell at basement prices....were getting bulk product sold based on a low price, nothing else

the only people who need this green image to promote is bord bia, cause lets face it they dont have jobs without it

sustainability is a buzz word created by the corporations in the late 90's to show how they can benifit society in other ways than making money, first ones to use it were oil companies. Sustainable is how we've all farmed for generations, getting better as we go, we could do with an extra few cent to help with our sustainablity crusade, spending local, paying our taxes local....plc pays taxes in luxemburg, pays dividend all over the world....they have a bit of cheek talking to us about sustainability

Birdnuts

atlantic mist wrote: »

why does ireland need the "green image" we get paid the lowest if not second lowest international price in the world...does the green image matter so much when we sell at basement prices....were getting bulk product sold based on a low price, nothing else

Its the inevitable outcomes of adopting the "KIWI" system beloved of Teagasc et al - Bord Bia can keep dressing it up with as much Greenwashing as it likes but margins will continue to tighten as milk volumes go up and up. In fact big Dairy has got away lightly here compared to the likes of Holland and Denmark were compulsory "Destocking" has already kicked in on the back of nitrate etc. issues in ground water, ammonia emmissions and the like

K.G.

Birdnuts wrote: »

Its the inevitable outcomes of adopting the "KIWI" system beloved of Teagasc et al - Bord Bia can keep dressing it up with as much Greenwashing as it likes but margins will continue to tighten as milk volumes go up and up. In fact big Dairy has got away lightly here compared to the likes of Holland and Denmark were compulsory "Destocking" has already kicked in on the back of nitrate etc. issues in ground water, ammonia emmissions and the like

I would say as margins decline milk volumes will have to go up

Mooooo

Birdnuts wrote: »

Its the inevitable outcomes of adopting the "KIWI" system beloved of Teagasc et al - Bord Bia can keep dressing it up with as much Greenwashing as it likes but margins will continue to tighten as milk volumes go up and up. In fact big Dairy has got away lightly here compared to the likes of Holland and Denmark were compulsory "Destocking" has already kicked in on the back of nitrate etc. issues in ground water, ammonia emmissions and the like

Very different countries. Holland is the size of Munster has a population of 17 million and more cows than the island here. We have regs for storage etc that nz didn't have esp for those in derogation. Even if we were all to cut back our price will still be determined by world markets so other countries will pick up the slack and you will have a mass exodus from the countrybside as farms become unviable

Say my name

Birdnuts wrote: »

Its the inevitable outcomes of adopting the "KIWI" system beloved of Teagasc et al - Bord Bia can keep dressing it up with as much Greenwashing as it likes but margins will continue to tighten as milk volumes go up and up. In fact big Dairy has got away lightly here compared to the likes of Holland and Denmark were compulsory "Destocking" has already kicked in on the back of nitrate etc. issues in ground water, ammonia emmissions and the like

Any opinion on Small Dairy?

Gawddawggonnit

K.G. wrote: »

I would say as margins decline milk volumes will have to go up

Yes I agree with you farms need to rationalize and then supplies can go up. Scale up acres and scale up production...with less slurry and artificial fert per acre. Land price will rise.

kevthegaff

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Viewed a dairy farm this afternoon.
224ha. Three blocks. 208ha grade 2 arable and the rest permanent pasture. 200 cubicles for milkers and rotary parlor. All new in 2010.
Plenty housing for followers, straw/hay storage sheds new in 2015. Etc etc.
70ha irrigable.
EBITDA on good years nearly €400k and the worst was €280k.
SFP €53k.
I didn’t bid because they told me two Irish brothers viewed it last week.

How much will it make

Mooooo

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Yes I agree with you farms need to rationalize and then supplies can go up. Scale up acres and scale up production...with less slurry and artificial fert per acre. Land price will rise.

I was wondering that yday but land price may not rise. The return from each acre if sr are limited would be reduced imo and so while it may go up and down ultimately price would fall I reckon. All hypothetical but wouldn't be sure on it rising

mickey1985

Lads I'm having an issue with my new direct expansion tank some of the milk is freezing in the bottom. I have tried not turning on the tank til after first milking and also turning tank temperature up to 4.5°c. I turn off the tank just before lorry collection and still milk froze at the bottom. I know quantity are less now but has anyone else same issue. Its a waste of milk also worried about tbc