Dairy Chitchat 4, an udder new thread.

K.G.

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Yes I agree with you farms need to rationalize and then supplies can go up. Scale up acres and scale up production...with less slurry and artificial fert per acre. Land price will rise.

Not sure about land prices rising,young farmers are starting to get very scarce.

straight

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Yes I agree with you farms need to rationalize and then supplies can go up. Scale up acres and scale up production...with less slurry and artificial fert per acre. Land price will rise.

Most of the big guys around here can't even pay their bill's not to mind buy land. Alot of them finding it hard to get suppliers/contractors now.

Grueller

straight wrote: »

Most of the big guys around here can't even pay their bill's not to mind buy land. Alot of them finding it hard to get suppliers/contractors now.

To be fair thats not the case locally here. We had one guy that left bills all over in year one, two and three after expanding up to 300ish cows, but he cleared them all in year four and five. Contractors etc are very keen for his custom now due to the volume of work he provides.

Tonynewholland

straight wrote: »

Most of the big guys around here can't even pay their bill's not to mind buy land. Alot of them finding it hard to get suppliers/contractors now.

I’d say it’s more non farmers buying land now

Mooooo

mickey1985 wrote: »

Lads I'm having an issue with my new direct expansion tank some of the milk is freezing in the bottom. I have tried not turning on the tank til after first milking and also turning tank temperature up to 4.5°c. I turn off the tank just before lorry collection and still milk froze at the bottom. I know quantity are less now but has anyone else same issue. Its a waste of milk also worried about tbc

Is the agitator in the milk and working? Get on to the supplier / service agent and they should sort it

mickey1985

Ya agitator is touching the milk but with quantities low not covering much. I taught the slightly higher temperature would taw out frozen bit when it stops but it didn't.

mahoney_j

straight wrote: »

Most of the big guys around here can't even pay their bill's not to mind buy land. Alot of them finding it hard to get suppliers/contractors now.

Ask any rep /contractor who his best customer is and vast majority of time it’s the sub 100 cow man .lots need to stand back and have a hard luck at what there at so many lads just don’t know when enough is enough and are burying themselves in work and debt tegasc have to accept a lot of responsibility on this they drove the expansion train and ideas of second/third units put out stories of highly profitable dairy farms etc etc but forgot about paying the farmer a wage forgot to put charge on land forgot most are heavily in debt and just pay interest and no capital and recently admitted they forgot all about calves when driving lads on to milk more cows ....u ask a question then at an open day as to will we have a market snd a decent price for all this milk and a highly respected advisor fluffs and farts around the question without giving an answer
I’ve given up on all that have a few lads I know doing things the way I’d like to and learning from them the derogation and environmental rules don’t have much issue with them just like a bit more reward for the effort and expense just like every other farmer we produce top quality products to highest standards but everybody else profits of it more than we do ,bord bia ,ornua ,tegasc ,coops

whelan2

straight wrote: »

Most of the big guys around here can't even pay their bill's not to mind buy land. Alot of them finding it hard to get suppliers/contractors now.

Dont be worrying about them

straight

whelan2 wrote: »

Dont be worrying about them

Why would I be worrying about them. I'm learning from them. It's other people's jobs to worry about them.

Tonynewholland

mickey1985 wrote: »

Ya agitator is touching the milk but with quantities low not covering much. I taught the slightly higher temperature would taw out frozen bit when it stops but it didn't.

Some lads will fix a bit of plastic to the bottom of the agitator if it’s not touching the milk. It only happens me the first few days of milk each year I just turn off the tank when it’s cooled and before it freezes

Panch18

Grueller wrote: »

To be fair thats not the case locally here. We had one guy that left bills all over in year one, two and three after expanding up to 300ish cows, but he cleared them all in year four and five. Contractors etc are very keen for his custom now due to the volume of work he provides.

so his contractors and creditors paid for his expansion

Doing something he couldn't afford to do and getting others to pay for it

Fair low thing to do in my opinion

And there is a huge amount of it going on around the country

Grueller

Panch18 wrote: »

so his contractors and creditors paid for his expansion

Doing something he couldn't afford to do and getting others to pay for it

Fair low thing to do in my opinion

And there is a huge amount of it going on around the country

Agree Panch, but I am surrounded by 3 other 250-300 cow men and there is no problem anyone getting paid off of them. One of them, his silage contractor does the mowing on the crew and he pays him as he leaves the field, almost a day before he even sees the harvester.

straight

I was just looking at buying a tank with dribble bar. As far as I can see the only reason to apply for the grant is to help with cashflow. As you get relief on depreciation and you are taxed on the grant you receive the cancel each other out. Am I right or have I got it all wrong?

Timmaay

straight wrote: »

I was just looking at buying a tank with dribble bar. As far as I can see the only reason to apply for the grant is to help with cashflow. As you get relief on depreciation and you are taxed on the grant you receive the cancel each other out. Am I right or have I got it all wrong?

No I don't think so, the grant should mean a 40% reduction, but net of tax. If the tanker like costs 30k, without the grant you decpricate 30k over whatever 6/8years (I cant remember what it is for machinery), if you get a grant of 40% or 12k then you decpricate 18k across the same time. Obviously 18k results in less of a tax saving than spending the full 30k, but you'll still be up overall with the 12k back.

straight

Timmaay wrote: »

No I don't think so, the grant should mean a 40% reduction, but net of tax. If the tanker like costs 30k, without the grant you decpricate 30k over whatever 6/8years (I cant remember what it is for machinery), if you get a grant of 40% or 12k then you decpricate 18k across the same time. Obviously 18k results in less of a tax saving than spending the full 30k, but you'll still be up overall with the 12k back.

Thanks, and someone correct me if I'm wrong but are you not taxed on the grant at 50% over number of years.

Grueller

straight wrote: »

Thanks, and someone correct me if I'm wrong but are you not taxed on the grant at 50% over number of years.

Not as far as I am aware. You pay for the tank at €30k. Take away the €12k that you get back. Now your books show that you actually spent €18k on that machine. If you had spent €30k you had €12k more to write off over 8 years. I am explaining it poorly. The €12k you paid out is replaced by the €12k grant back in so no tax liability.

richie123

straight wrote: »

Thanks, and someone correct me if I'm wrong but are you not taxed on the grant at 50% over number of years.

You will be taxed on that grant income.in the year you get it also

Tonynewholland

richie123 wrote: »

You will be taxed on that grant income.in the year you get it also

Are you sure about this.

atlantic mist

the tank which costs 30k, grant back on tank 12k
capital allowances available at 18k over 8 years = 2.25k a year
no tax on grant income, its netted off against tank

K.G.

Just something to be aware of you cant get finance on a tank if you are drawing the grant.the logic is under the scheme you have to keep the tank for 5 years and if so the finance company cant reposse it as the state have a claim on it.

mickey1985

Tonynewholland wrote: »

Some lads will fix a bit of plastic to the bottom of the agitator if it’s not touching the milk. It only happens me the first few days of milk each year I just turn off the tank when it’s cooled and before it freezes

Would you leave the tank off overnight then? Mine is still touching the agitator but you can see the ice on the sides when it's at 5°c

Castlekeeper

mickey1985 wrote: »

Ya agitator is touching the milk but with quantities low not covering much. I taught the slightly higher temperature would taw out frozen bit when it stops but it didn't.

I turn off the tank at 6-7' and the temp will drop away down for the next 20 mind. I turn it on when it's below the cut in temp, 3.7, in my case.
No freezing even with very low volumes.

Castlekeeper

mickey1985 wrote: »

Would you leave the tank off overnight then? Mine is still touching the agitator but you can see the ice on the sides when it's at 5°c

I wouldn't be a fan, when the cream settles it never again mixes in properly, the test will be down.

dar31

Castlekeeper wrote: »

I turn off the tank at 6-7' and the temp will drop away down for the next 20 mind. I turn it on when it's below the cut in temp, 3.7, in my case.
No freezing even with very low volumes.

Never though of doing it that way.
Sound like it you'd work a treat.

mickey1985

Castlekeeper wrote: »

I turn off the tank at 6-7' and the temp will drop away down for the next 20 mind. I turn it on when it's below the cut in temp, 3.7, in my case.
No freezing even with very low volumes.

Sounds good. Il try this the next day. Would the freezing lead to a rise in tbc? Wastes a little bit of milk also.

Castlekeeper

mickey1985 wrote: »

Sounds good. Il try this the next day. Would the freezing lead to a rise in tbc? Wastes a little bit of milk also.

I doubt it, if anything it'd help keep it down I'd say. It might increase your test as well as the water freezes first!

Birdnuts

Mooooo wrote: »

Very different countries. Holland is the size of Munster has a population of 17 million and more cows than the island here. We have regs for storage etc that nz didn't have esp for those in derogation. Even if we were all to cut back our price will still be determined by world markets so other countries will pick up the slack and you will have a mass exodus from the countrybside as farms become unviable

Maybe for now - but big Dairy here is rapidly expanding and heading in the Dutch direction. As for exodus from the countryside, bigger industrial farms won't stop that as the US experience shows, in fact it may well speed it up.

Birdnuts

K.G. wrote: »

I would say as margins decline milk volumes will have to go up

Its a vicious circle with the end result similar to the sorry state of the pig/poultry industry:(

Birdnuts

Panch18 wrote: »

so his contractors and creditors paid for his expansion

Doing something he couldn't afford to do and getting others to pay for it

Fair low thing to do in my opinion

And there is a huge amount of it going on around the country

Not surprising really as the "expansion at any cost" model is glorified across the pages of the main farming press, state agencies etc. day in day out.

K.G.

Birdnuts wrote: »

Its a vicious circle with the end result similar to the sorry state of the pig/poultry industry:(

A hundred years one neighbour said to the other "do you hear yer man up the road has 2 cows now, thats greed for ya".cant see how we in Ireland are going to buck the trend thats happening all over the world with the last 150 years