Dairy Chitchat 4, an udder new thread.

Tonynewholland

straight wrote: »

Passive income. About 1 hours labour per year. Diversification, pension, etc. The tax is a balls on the rental income alright but I don't overdo it on my tenants. I've an interest in property along with farming. Not that bothered about getting "rich".

Maintenance of any property will be a lot more than an hour a year and has a cost. Your aim must be to make money/get rich.

Buford T. Justice XIX

whelan2 wrote: »

I want him to finish it , bu he just wants out now. I know everyone is in the same boat with covid etc. Dodgy internet doesn't help either

Everyone reaches a point where they just want to be finished with study, hopefully he's mature enough to know that point has been reached.

But he can always go back again later to reach that level of qualification if he wants, it'll be harder but still within reach if he wants.

K.G.

whelan2 wrote: »

I want him to finish it , bu he just wants out now. I know everyone is in the same boat with covid etc. Dodgy internet doesn't help either

What ever you do fight it out to the finish.

GrasstoMilk

awaywithyou wrote: »

we need to get away from talking about more cows to increase production to keep up with decreasing margins increased costs etc.... the focus should be on increasing litres and not cows.... you prob have a 9000litre cow and to increase litres u will need more cows... things are much different in this country... e.g. i know of a farmer that was doing 450kgms by switching to breeding high output cows he has gone upto 620kgms without adding one extra cow.. now i know he'll only go so far with the breeding and feeding before he will have to add on cows to increase..

there is huge scope to increase litres in this country without adding more cows...

Teagasc wont go on bout this tho as they along with many others (AI companies co-ops vets etc) are absolutely creaming it from the rubbish thats being spouted and the ****e thats being sold to those milking high EBI goats that will be minus in EBI in 2 years time...

I'm milking high ebi goats and will continue to do so
540 kg sold last year and will do similar this year with a fairly immature herd of cows
Reckon I can get them to do 600kgs without changing breeding strategy, some culling of bottom cows and letting the herd mature

Of course I could get there also by using higher volume bulls but I'd get penslised for extra water then and would require more meal

Thats my plan anyway

cute geoge

Tonynewholland wrote: »

Maintenance of any property will be a lot more than an hour a year and has a cost. Your aim must be to make money/get rich.

Would land have a better return on investment then a purchased house to rent .Good land around here is E15k/acre to buy and let at E300 so 10 acres would return 3k .House purchased costing 150k should return E850/month so lets say 10 months rent come to E8500 .Now that would leave E5500 to cover maintenance to make the same return as land

Jb1989

K.G. wrote: »

What ever you do fight it out to the finish.

How come? , I imagine if I dropped out of a course like that after investing time, energy and money I'd have got some doing, and rightly so. Needless waste. We all could drop out when the going gets tough. But that's not an ideal quality.

Tonynewholland

cute geoge wrote: »

Would land have a better return on investment then a purchased house to rent .Good land around here is E15k/acre to buy and let at E300 so 10 acres would return 3k .House purchased costing 150k should return E850/month so lets say 10 months rent come to E8500 .Now that would leave E5500 to cover maintenance to make the same return as land

They are both very different investments and land has obvious benefits if your a farmer . I haven’t met many farmers who regretted buying land where I know plenty people who regret getting into the buy to let market.
Say rental income of 12k letting agent will happily take 2k insurance property tax maintenance probably another 2k so 8k and pay the tax and the bank After 20/25 years your house will probably need to be refurbished so you can start all over again.

Farm365

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

I'm milking high ebi goats and will continue to do so
540 kg sold last year and will do similar this year with a fairly immature herd of cows
Reckon I can get them to do 600kgs without changing breeding strategy, some culling of bottom cows and letting the herd mature

Of course I could get there also by using higher volume bulls but I'd get penslised for extra water then and would require more meal

Thats my plan anyway

What’s your breeding and how much meal do you feed?

GrasstoMilk

Farm365 wrote: »

What’s your breeding and how much meal do you feed?

Jex and je back breeding
Using ebi for the last 12 years or so
% and fertility focused, never really bred for litres yet

straight

Tonynewholland wrote: »

They are both very different investments and land has obvious benefits if your a farmer . I haven’t met many farmers who regretted buying land where I know plenty people who regret getting into the buy to let market.
Say rental income of 12k letting agent will happily take 2k insurance property tax maintenance probably another 2k so 8k and pay the tax and the bank After 20/25 years your house will probably need to be refurbished so you can start all over again.

I don't use letting agents, insurance is about 5 - 600 per house. Maintenance is fairly minimal and certainly not done by me. Tenants usually look after stuff and I pay sometimes, they pay other times. I'd nearly prefer to spend more on maintenance, beds, etc. to save tax. It's not for everyone but as I said I've an interest in it. There's no money out of it after paying the mortgage/tax but sure there's no money out of cows either. Would like to buy land but it's just too difficult to get money out of it. I've enough work/cows. If I wanted to get "rich" I wouldn't be milking cows.

Castlekeeper

Jb1989 wrote: »

How come? , I imagine if I dropped out of a course like that after investing time, energy and money I'd have got some doing, and rightly so. Needless waste. We all could drop out when the going gets tough. But that's not an ideal quality.

Ah now, while you have a fair point, sometimes there is a better part of valour.
The most important thing is to support the young person and guide them towards what's best for themselves, and I'm sure that's what Whelan is doing.
There are many reasons why pulling out be the best option, not the soft option.
I'd say the best of luck to them, the B Ag might not be worth much after anyway.

Castlekeeper

awaywithyou wrote: »

we need to get away from talking about more cows to increase production to keep up with decreasing margins increased costs etc.... the focus should be on increasing litres and not cows.... you prob have a 9000litre cow and to increase litres u will need more cows... things are much different in this country... e.g. i know of a farmer that was doing 450kgms by switching to breeding high output cows he has gone upto 620kgms without adding one extra cow.. now i know he'll only go so far with the breeding and feeding before he will have to add on cows to increase..

there is huge scope to increase litres in this country without adding more cows...

Teagasc wont go on bout this tho as they along with many others (AI companies co-ops vets etc) are absolutely creaming it from the rubbish thats being spouted and the ****e thats being sold to those milking high EBI goats that will be minus in EBI in 2 years time...

What genetics are you recommending?
I'm no fan of the EBI lucky bag straws but sure weren't we using imported Holstein straws across the board for about 20 years here and it turned out to be a bit of a disaster in health and fertility.
Hence the turn to crossbreeding and then the genomic EBI system to save the IHFA.

Jb1989

Castlekeeper wrote: »

Ah now, while you have a fair point, sometimes there is a better part of valour.
The most important thing is to support the young person and guide them towards what's best for themselves, and I'm sure that's what Whelan is doing.
There are many reasons why pulling out be the best option, not the soft option.
I'd say the best of luck to them, the B Ag might not be worth much after anyway.

All fair points yourself, but sometimes you need to put your head down if you are close to the finishing line, and at times it's nice to have someone to give you a push to stick in, rather than pull out. Lots have thanked their parents for giveing them a push rather than giveing them options.
If I'd my way I'd have left school after junior infants.

mahoney_j

Castlekeeper wrote: »

What genetics are you recommending?
I'm no fan of the EBI lucky bag straws but sure weren't we using imported Holstein straws across the board for about 20 years here and it turned out to be a bit of a disaster in health and fertility.
Hence the turn to crossbreeding and then the genomic EBI system to save the IHFA.

Use ebi but ignore the overall figure use your own report ideally backed up by milk records pick traits to improve pick 5/6 bulls and delve into background figures bulls like Albert and conti are solid on production ,fertikity and type after that all depends but using more international bulls as figures are more reliable .totally lost faith with ebi constantly chopping and changing ,young high ebi bulls ending up as duds not delievering what genotypes said they should

whelan2

Had a farmer here today to buy an Angus bull. It's the first beef bull he has ever bought. He has a pedigree dairy herd, calving all year round and wants to go to 2 split groups. He wants the bull tb tested and screened for disease. He has a problem in his herd with neospora. Do bulls pass on neospora? Can he be blood tested for it?

Mooooo

whelan2 wrote: »

Had a farmer here today to buy an Angus bull. It's the first beef bull he has ever bought. He has a pedigree dairy herd, calving all year round and wants to go to 2 split groups. He wants the bull tb tested and screened for disease. He has a problem in his herd with neospora. Do bulls pass on neospora? Can he be blood tested for it?

Afaik if a cow gets it and has a live calf the calf will be born with it. I assumed it was more a cow thing than a bull thing. Could never get over lads using bulls when cows are inside, enough risk with cows jumping not a mind anothe couple hundred kgs and balls of testosterone thrown into the mix

whelan2

Mooooo wrote: »

Afaik if a cow gets it and has a live calf the calf will be born with it. I assumed it was more a cow thing than a bull thing. Could never get over lads using bulls when cows are inside, enough risk with cows jumping not a mind anothe couple hundred kgs and balls of testosterone thrown into the mix

He wants the bull for heifers after he ai's them. We use bulls inside each year,no problem so far on cows

Tonynewholland

whelan2 wrote: »

Had a farmer here today to buy an Angus bull. It's the first beef bull he has ever bought. He has a pedigree dairy herd, calving all year round and wants to go to 2 split groups. He wants the bull tb tested and screened for disease. He has a problem in his herd with neospora. Do bulls pass on neospora? Can he be blood tested for it?

Yes you can blood test for it. Most cows will lose the calf if they have it

whelan2

What else do people test bulls for before buying them?

jaymla627

whelan2 wrote: »

What else do people test bulls for before buying them?

Johnes and ibr if buyers herd isn't vaccinating are the only real major ones

whelan2

jaymla627 wrote: »

Johnes and ibr if buyers herd isn't vaccinating are the only real major ones

He mentioned johnes but bull is only 20 months old. Will get him tested for it anyway.

straight

whelan2 wrote: »

He wants the bull for heifers after he ai's them. We use bulls inside each year,no problem so far on cows

Careful now, that's dangerous talk.

Buford T. Justice XIX

whelan2 wrote: »

Had a farmer here today to buy an Angus bull. It's the first beef bull he has ever bought. He has a pedigree dairy herd, calving all year round and wants to go to 2 split groups. He wants the bull tb tested and screened for disease. He has a problem in his herd with neospora. Do bulls pass on neospora? Can he be blood tested for it?

Afaik, it's only a problem in females. As said above, causes abortion and can be passed onto a female who goes full term. It's also passed on by other cows licking afterbirth or aborted calves. Also passed on in dog and fox dung so can be passed on in infected silage where dogs and foxes defecate. Diet feeders seem to multiply the problem in cases as well.

whelan2

Buford T. Justice XIX wrote: »

Afaik, it's only a problem in females. As said above, causes abortion and can be passed onto a female who goes full term. It's also passed on by other cows licking afterbirth or aborted calves. Also passed on in dog and fox dung so can be passed on in infected silage where dogs and foxes defecate. Diet feeders seem to multiply the problem in cases as well.

So a bull wouldn't need to be tested for it?

Tonynewholland

whelan2 wrote: »

So a bull wouldn't need to be tested for it?

I’d imagine a bull could still have it. If getting bloods done just as well to check for it too

tanko

A few years back i had a cow here had two calves in two years that didn't thrive well at all. My vet reckoned she had neospora even though she tested negative for it. He said that the test wasn't very reliable.
Is that possible or am i remembering what happened wrong?

blackdog1

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

I'm milking high ebi goats and will continue to do so
540 kg sold last year and will do similar this year with a fairly immature herd of cows
Reckon I can get them to do 600kgs without changing breeding strategy, some culling of bottom cows and letting the herd mature

Of course I could get there also by using higher volume bulls but I'd get penslised for extra water then and would require more meal

Thats my plan anyway

Here is my take on the Derogation situation if it goes, and we all have the same stocking number.

Guys doing 400kg of solids will be in trouble anyone doing 560 plus will be fine but they'll have to breed top 30-40% to sexed semen and the rest to beef unless they have a very desirable herd. This could in turn make buying replacement heifers very difficult as they will be thin on the ground. Cross breds to me will be less desirable too. yes you can get 600 kgs on maybe less meal than a holstein but you will sacrifice on cull cow prices and calf prices so they wont be anymore profit in it.

Personally for me if this happens i will do the above. i'll cut back on any extra stock that i usually sell. i'll use sexed semen on my top 30% and easy calving beef on the rest and i'll probably go back to growing a field of wheat that i'll use for crimp and straw. Hopefully I dont think i'll have to drop my cow numbers though.

Timmaay

blackdog1 wrote: »

Personally for me if this happens i will do the above. i'll cut back on any extra stock that i usually sell. i'll use sexed semen on my top 30% and easy calving beef on the rest and i'll probably go back to growing a field of wheat that i'll use for crimp and straw. Hopefully I dont think i'll have to drop my cow numbers though.

Only problem here is only grassland is counted towards nitrates stocking rates, so be careful if your over your 250kgN/ha of grassland. How the hell that makes sense I duno, you'll almost always be spreading slurry on the tillage ground, do you need to "export" the slurry to the tillage ground or what?

greysides

whelan2 wrote: »

Had a farmer here today to buy an Angus bull. It's the first beef bull he has ever bought. He has a pedigree dairy herd, calving all year round and wants to go to 2 split groups. He wants the bull tb tested and screened for disease. He has a problem in his herd with neospora. Do bulls pass on neospora? Can he be blood tested for it?

To the best of my knowledge, bulls don't transmit Neospora. Just like heifer calves they could be infected from their mothers, but they would be a dead-end host.

awaywithyou

Buford T. Justice XIX wrote: »

Afaik, it's only a problem in females. As said above, causes abortion and can be passed onto a female who goes full term. It's also passed on by other cows licking afterbirth or aborted calves. Also passed on in dog and fox dung so can be passed on in infected silage where dogs and foxes defecate. Diet feeders seem to multiply the problem in cases as well.

and zero grazing seems to b a factor... neighbour of mine who im sure u know well had a problem a few years ago and he made out twas z grazing a place belonging to a lad that kept greyhounds..

on another note Silage season wont be the same without the gentle giant on the loader... sadly..