Dairy Chitchat 4, an udder new thread.

Gawddawggonnit

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

Is much beet being diverted to animal feed at that price?

No, transport would kill it and livestock farmers wouldn’t be short of energy based forage.
I did get a lash of molasses for handy money to spray onto land...but that’s another story.

Tonynewholland

RightTurnClyde wrote: »

As I started reading your post thats what was running through my mind, big difference between buying and selling a beet harvester and the scale and non-saleability of dairy capital. Glad you pointed that out in the end.
Had a guy in here a few weeks ago buying empty cows to milk through. Mature new entrant, 40 acres around parlour, few outside blocks. New amd converted buildings for cow housing, parlour, herd, roadways, etc for 100 cows. Very nice fellow, Hes 48 with a young family, wife with part time job, he has €280k borrowed for this. I asked him how were the figures looking. He said teagasc did up the figures for him and did the business plan for the bank, so all was good.
I think he has a tough road in front of him.

His age and the land around the parlour are the big negatives for me but if he loves to farm why not

cute geoge

Tonynewholland wrote: »

His age and the land around the parlour are the big negatives for me but if he loves to farm why not

Surely the 280k borrowed is the Big NEGATIVE on 40 acres

whelan2

cute geoge wrote: »

Surely the 280k borrowed is the Big NEGATIVE on 40 acres

He said he also has a few outside blocks, which could be tied in too.

Panch18

cute geoge wrote: »

Surely the 280k borrowed is the Big NEGATIVE on 40 acres

The biggest potential issue I would see will be stocking rate on the home block and the potential environmental rules that could come down the road

He has a decent change with 100 cows, what hope has he if they limit him to 35 or 40 cows?

And that will happen if they get even the slightest chance

straight

cute geoge wrote: »

Surely the 280k borrowed is the Big NEGATIVE on 40 acres

280 overall borrowing wouldn't be bad. Unless he has personal debt too.

Gary kk

Panch18 wrote: »

The biggest potential issue I would see will be stocking rate on the home block and the potential environmental rules that could come down the road

He has a decent change with 100 cows, what hope has he if they limit him to 35 or 40 cows?

And that will happen if they get even the slightest chance

Yeah a hundred cows should easily services that with room.

Probably shouldn't be discussing someones business if they didn't ask.

Edit : Sorry Panch that wasn't meant to be directed at you.

mahoney_j

Panch18 wrote: »

The biggest potential issue I would see will be stocking rate on the home block and the potential environmental rules that could come down the road

He has a decent change with 100 cows, what hope has he if they limit him to 35 or 40 cows?

And that will happen if they get even the slightest chance

Well tegasc are going to hammer him and anyone else with small milk block and other fragmented support blocks with there current little project is the day comming where we say frig it to our bps(which is dwindling anyway)and farm our land hoe we see fit there’s ways of accommodating farmers with high milk block Sr but they don’t seem bothered listening just more cows more cows

Gary kk

mahoney_j wrote: »

Well tegasc are going to hammer him and anyone else with small milk block and other fragmented support blocks with there current little project is the day comming where we say frig it to our bps(which is dwindling anyway)and farm our land hoe we see fit there’s ways of accommodating farmers with high milk block Sr but they don’t seem bothered listening just more cows more cows

To be fair the tegasc man I have is all about getting best out of the cows not increasing numbers.

GrasstoMilk

mahoney_j wrote: »

Well tegasc are going to hammer him and anyone else with small milk block and other fragmented support blocks with there current little project is the day comming where we say frig it to our bps(which is dwindling anyway)and farm our land hoe we see fit there’s ways of accommodating farmers with high milk block Sr but they don’t seem bothered listening just more cows more cows

You won't get away with that unfortunately
You're still bound to the same rules and regs as every other farmer and they can still fine you if they see fit its just easier go take it from your sfp
If they fine you they'll get it some how

Thats exactly what the man that does our dero and sfp application for us said- independent of teagasc

GrasstoMilk

Gary kk wrote: »

To be fair the tegasc man I have is all about getting best out of the cows not increasing numbers.

Like wise
I could be wrong but was it not the government who set out the 2020 targets of 50% extra production

They're the ones who wanted us all to increase beef, grain and milk production

Teagasc facilitated the knowledge transfer and know how to the farmers who wanted to expand and increase

The government/EU now want water quality, emissions, nitrogen improved and reduced so teagasc are faciliting the know how and knowledge on what farmers can do

I never had a teagasc advisor come to my farm and tell me to milk more cows that was purely our own decision

mahoney_j

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

You won't get away with that unfortunately
You're still bound to the same rules and regs as every other farmer and they can still fine you if they see fit its just easier go take it from your sfp
If they fine you they'll get it some how

Thats exactly what the man that does our dero and sfp application for us said- independent of teagasc

My point is our leading advisory body is hammering smaller fragmented holdings carrying high Sr on milk blocks im in that bracket I don’t just unload slurry on milk block to get rid of if I use less technology spread lime have built indexed ,reseeded ,spread prot urea plant trees I’ll try work deals with tillage man for maize/beet where slurry and fym is part of the deal and make a point of taking slurry to out farms after silage cuts and baling surpluses if what there purposing to do (cap milk block Sr me snd lots of others will be out of business

jaymla627

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

You won't get away with that unfortunately
You're still bound to the same rules and regs as every other farmer and they can still fine you if they see fit its just easier go take it from your sfp
If they fine you they'll get it some how

Thats exactly what the man that does our dero and sfp application for us said- independent of teagasc

Entirely county council specific, your advisor is talking out his a**e to be fair by that logic all pig farms and poultry units should be immediately shutdown too

GrasstoMilk

jaymla627 wrote: »

Entirely county council specific, your advisor is talking out his a**e to be fair by that logic all pig farms and poultry units should be immediately shutdown too

Pig and poultry farms need EPA licences to operate
They're a completely different ball game and I wouldnt want to be brought into the same bracket

GrasstoMilk

mahoney_j wrote: »

My point is our leading advisory body is hammering smaller fragmented holdings carrying high Sr on milk blocks im in that bracket I don’t just unload slurry on milk block to get rid of if I use less technology spread lime have built indexed ,reseeded ,spread prot urea plant trees I’ll try work deals with tillage man for maize/beet where slurry and fym is part of the deal and make a point of taking slurry to out farms after silage cuts and baling surpluses if what there purposing to do (cap milk block Sr me snd lots of others will be out of business

I'm in the same situation, majority of Irish dairy farms are
If farmers start dropping sfp to do what they want the Dept and CoCo will get you another way

jaymla627

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Pig and poultry farms need EPA licences to operate
They're a completely different ball game and I wouldnt want to be brought into the same bracket

Did you watch prime time investigates lately re the epa and quarry owners and the esb pollution one, they are a pretty toothless organisation and once you've adequate slurry storage and are actually exporting slurry and been compliant re organic n rates what's to fear

RightTurnClyde

straight wrote: »

280 overall borrowing wouldn't be bad. Unless he has personal debt too.

One of the problems is in reference to my earlier post, major changes in the last 5 yrs, more changes on the way, one being the reduction in stocking rates, and more importantly the mp sr which is going to screw alot of established and new entrants.

I'm no accountant but maximise the capex tax write off he'll be looking at close to 40k a year in loan repayments for the next 8 yrs. On 100 cows that's hard going.
He could drop the payments to 20k over say 17 years, but once his write off is gone he'll be paying 20k + another ~10k in tax on the loan as his heading for 60.
There is much room for tighter restrictions or higher costs there

mahoney_j

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

I'm in the same situation, majority of Irish dairy farms are
If farmers start dropping sfp to do what they want the Dept and CoCo will get you another way

Bit of a stretch to say majority of farms are in that bracket ,having any sort of decent block of land in one spot for a lot of dairy farmers is fantasy or a dream .most are willing to adapt but tegasc don’t seem interested in finding a way to help instead they are running a project where it’s proposed capping land block Sr

Siamsa Sessions

Does the Bord Bia audit look at stocking rates or nitrates?

I’m guessing that could be a stick to beat lads since the co-ops require you to be in that scheme

Gary kk

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

Does the Bord Bia audit look at stocking rates or nitrates?

I’m guessing that could be a stick to beat lads since the co-ops require you to be in that scheme

No I don't think so.

Buford T. Justice XIX

mahoney_j wrote: »

Bit of a stretch to say majority of farms are in that bracket ,having any sort of decent block of land in one spot for a lot of dairy farmers is fantasy or a dream .most are willing to adapt but tegasc don’t seem interested in finding a way to help instead they are running a project where it’s proposed capping land block Sr

That Teagasc project on estimating the consequences of a reduction in N usage was carried out due to a request by the Dept of Ag.

Say my name

Buford T. Justice XIX wrote: »

That Teagasc project on estimating the consequences of a reduction in N usage was carried out due to a request by the Dept of Ag.

What's this Buford?

Buford T. Justice XIX

Say my name wrote: »

What's this Buford?

Link in the tweet there, Say.
https://twitter.com/teagasc/status/1331345609572438016?s=19

mahoney_j

Buford T. Justice XIX wrote: »

That Teagasc project on estimating the consequences of a reduction in N usage was carried out due to a request by the Dept of Ag.

Aware of that but where’s the outside the box thinking ,if they proceed and part of it is reducing Sr on part of a holding they are shafting a lot of smaller fragmented holdings no issue trying to reduce n or thought out measures to help environment but if they proceed as is they are .sowing the seeds for dept down the road .less cows and get more from them makes sense in so many ways but they appear to have no appetite for it

Farm365

RightTurnClyde wrote: »

As I started reading your post thats what was running through my mind, big difference between buying and selling a beet harvester and the scale and non-saleability of dairy capital. Glad you pointed that out in the end.
Had a guy in here a few weeks ago buying empty cows to milk through. Mature new entrant, 40 acres around parlour, few outside blocks. New amd converted buildings for cow housing, parlour, herd, roadways, etc for 100 cows. Very nice fellow, Hes 48 with a young family, wife with part time job, he has €280k borrowed for this. I asked him how were the figures looking. He said teagasc did up the figures for him and did the business plan for the bank, so all was good.
I think he has a tough road in front of him.

What are the proposed new stocking rates? If the proposed new Stocking rate regulations came in how many cows could he carry on the mp?

Grueller

Farm365 wrote: »

What are the proposed new stocking rates? If the proposed new Stocking rate regulations came in how many cows could he carry on the mp?

3.26 cows per ha.
16 ha so 52.16 cows.
52 friesians and a dexter.

kevthegaff

Grueller wrote: »

3.26 cows per ha.
16 ha so 52.16 cows.
52 friesians and a dexter.

That's not too bad

Buford T. Justice XIX

Grueller wrote: »

3.26 cows per ha.
16 ha so 52.16 cows.
52 friesians and a dexter.

Dexter calf, Dexter cows have the same rating as a 1t Charolais bull, AFAIK.

Buford T. Justice XIX

mahoney_j wrote: »

Aware of that but where’s the outside the box thinking ,if they proceed and part of it is reducing Sr on part of a holding they are shafting a lot of smaller fragmented holdings no issue trying to reduce n or thought out measures to help environment but if they proceed as is they are .sowing the seeds for dept down the road .less cows and get more from them makes sense in so many ways but they appear to have no appetite for it

There was a good bit on that in the Dairy conference this morning, it should be online pretty soon.

Say my name

Buford T. Justice XIX wrote: »

Link in the tweet there, Say.

They're still missing my magic stuff!!

*I suppose the inclusion of the micronutrient piece is some development..