Dairy Chitchat 4, an udder new thread.

QA1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122490170#Comment_122490170

the longer your locked up and the more interaction you have with vets in the DVO the more you find out why there vets in DVO there Mickey Mouse would have a better chance of getting rid of tb

There is some good AO out there if you can find the good ones and they will organise the snare better than the vets and sort problems the vets in Dvo are superspreader in my opinion

Finty Lemon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122490685#Comment_122490685

Can't agree. If there's a skin reaction to a properly administered test, the likelihood of TB present is 95% plus. More than one reaction, you may as well say 100%. The problem is not the cow with massive lumps and the skin peeling off them, the problem is marginal calls and small reactions- these may be the cows with most advanced infection. Out the gap with them. Repeat for clarity, false positives on skin are tiny in number.

If you want to clear a herd level infection quickly, where there is circulating disease in the herd, then bloods are a part of the overall response, case by case though. Unlike the skin, false positive rates are more significant so there will be difficult collateral damage in trying to clear the situation fast. But better to lose 20 cows in 8 months than 8 cows in 20 months, given the other implications. You have to factor in bloods as part of managing a significant outbreak. My experience on this goes back 30 years or more at this stage unfortunately, and I'm saying it in the interest of anyone who is struggling with the problem. Do all you can to clear it fast I would say, and put your case vet back over previous readings on older cows if needed. Any track of reaction in the older cows especially is a red flag.

As for an unofficial cow reduction scheme, take the tinfoil off your head and talk sense for a minute. The Dept don't and won't use bloods for annual screening test precisely because of the greater chance of unnecessary culls, and are reluctant to go in even if an outbreak occurs.

daiymann 5

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122490149#Comment_122490149

Correct me if im wrong but i seen online about 4000 lymph nodes cultured in a year only half had tb so in all animal passed trough factories with vets only 2000 about had tb confirmed which means theres not much tb about

GNWoodd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122490207#Comment_122490207

If the skin test isn’t accurate, the presence /absence of lesions isn’t accurate and the blood test isn’t indicative what is left ? If there isn’t a test that can be relied upon why continue with any of the testing ?

I know that tests applied to determine whether a motorist can be convicted of drink driving are also dubious so is there any test that works in this country ?

Coolcormack1979

personally done a blood here in 2020 when we had 3 down in regular test.took another 6 cows and was still in the same boat.all killed out clear.so like everyone else would be very slow to do bloods again

Finty Lemon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122490756#Comment_122490756

The skin test has very high specificity, so a very low false positive rate.

It's problem is low sensitivity, meaning a higher than ideal false negative rate. That's where the frustration lies, stock with the infection not being picked up. It's also why you need 2 clear tests to go clear,to reduce the likelihood of missing an infected animal.

But it does mean in practice that lumps mean TB, but no lumps doesn't mean no TB. A big part of the reason why trading high risk animals from high risk herds is adding to the problem.

Finty Lemon

The presence of visible lesions is not a reliable way of saying the animal is not infected. Lesions take a long time to grow in the animal and in the lab. TB is a slow growing bacterium which makes it all.the harder to combat. If the cow got visibly sick on first contact for example, it would be cleared much easier because you'd know who was a carrier and who wasn't.

None of this is an excuse for slackness on the part of some DAFM efforts by the way, but it is the reality.

ginger22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122490282#Comment_122490282

If you can see badgers out by day walking between the lines of slurry you can be shure they are badly infected with TB.

older by the day

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122490027#Comment_122490027

Do you really think bloods will sort the problem. What's happening around here is they are having a lot of reactors to the bloods and then having 1 or 2 still going down in the next skin test.

raindodger

20220801_072317 (1).jpg

Totally de populated here in 2022 ,wouldnt wish it on any one.Had cows that had passed around seven skin tests and one blood test in two years and when taken out still killed out with lesions.Until there is a conclusive test we are at nothing.Had aclosed herd, dept asking me how did or could i explain out break.

Think that we are in asituation where younger animals have never been challlanged by the virus and have no resistence.in my own situation nearly all first and second calvers went down to skin test or maybe older stock are tested so often its like a vacinne.

hope ive done it right picture is of sixty young healthy cows skin tb reactors

older by the day

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122492115#Comment_122492115

I'm sorry for your troubles. Very disappointing. Did you restart again

cjpm

Fcuk. That’s insane. Must put a farmers mental health under serious pressure too

kevthegaff

are xbreds less of a chance of going down?

older by the day

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122492425#Comment_122492425

i had mox crosses, pure tanks of cows, 4th calvers go down last year. Don't a pile of suckler cross's go down around the country

raindodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122492347#Comment_122492347

Got back in again at a lower level,with the thoughts i want to quit on my terms .Brought home to me how vunerable we are as self employed. Mentally it taught me i wasnt half as tough as i thought i was. Had a lad that was very interested would hunt you out of parlour hardly came into yard again now in australia

jaymla627

department vet upgraded the 11 as reactors and wont be getting any compensation as had to go in with epricis a month ago and will be another 30 days before they are able to be slaughtered, was fairly snotty about it too, cows needed a worm dose at the time and it needed to be done

awaywithyou

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122493931#Comment_122493931

what you mean you wont be getting compensation….?? under no circumstances do ya allow those cattle to be removed until you sort that out

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122493993#Comment_122493993

new rules brought in

Screenshot_20240812_120152_OneDrive.jpg

Will the factory even give us their actual value, they'd all kill into 280kgs plus deadweight fat scores would be good so their worth circa 1000 euro

mahoney_j

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122493931#Comment_122493931

fook that …..I’d be fighting that with both Barells and get outside help if that’s the way they want to play

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122493931#Comment_122493931

This no dosing about around the time of a herd test is BS. Mine is the end of the month and I recently did cattle for lung worm with pour on. It would have been impossible to do 20-30 heavy finishing cattle with an oral dose. If the stores need dosing it would be an injection. With tge withdrawal periods on medicines you could not treat anything fir 30-70 days before a test depending on what you need to treat

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122493931#Comment_122493931

And after that you will still only get a reduced price per kg of dogfood. You'll be down to 400 euro a cow factory price. No you may fight that. That's too much a drop to take. And you have done nothing wrong to get to this.

And with 11 down they'll definitely be pushing bloods. And more than likely that'll take a share more too.

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122494071#Comment_122494071

Say the cows in question are clear in factory and on cultures, will they still keep us locked up and needing to get twoclear tests to get de-restricted, thinking back the vets dosing gun started acting up mid testing and he had to change it, could be a case of the above that lead to inaccurate test

Working out the financals, these cows gone would leave us down 20k in milk sales for the year, and another 15k to replace them

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122494095#Comment_122494095

just personally. I was clear in factory. But they put me down for a blood test before the results came back. I was told culture tests are not done anymore. But from others commentating it seems who you are dealing with and what form they may be in. Then I went down with more in bloods. And these were my best cows. I'm getting left with the worst that I'd normally cull but forced to milk on to have something coming in.

I don't know Jay. It sounds to me like you are in for it now. You may push them on everything now.

awaywithyou

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122494007#Comment_122494007

thats a bloody farce…. may get test done this year before we start drying off cows… my god there is literally no limit to how low the Dept will go… fight them all the way to the bitter end…

awaywithyou

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122494125#Comment_122494125

the people looking after TB in the DVO's are a bit like the people looking after nitrates… there are so many rules and regulations being brought in they are lost themselves as to what they are supposed to be doing

Jb1989

Another vote for fight. Wouldn't even contemplate accepting a statement for no compo

V6400

Another vote for a fight and not a quiet one. **** like that needs to be highlighted and made public knowledge, how many farmers actually know or think about a rule like that. What about young stock, cant dose for a month or more before a test, they could be in an awful state then and maybe a pneumonia risk when eventually dosed. If the department take an animal off a farm they should pay for it, end of story.

straight

I heard about a local man caught with the long withdrawal on epricis before.

It's an animal welfare issue anyway. Sick animals need to be treated and that's the end of it. I was helping out my organic neighbour before as he had the vet dosing his stock for him. I said I thought organic stock couldn't get that. The Vet just said sick animals need to be treated. There is no debate.

K.G.

It's the confluence of 2 rule set neither of which can be overridden.the dept are just going to play it by the rules and anyone who tries to fight the dept usually loses out in some shape or form but politically there may be some leeway so I d get onto my local politicians and keep climbing the ladder.its going to be a ministerial decision anyway

whelan2

I'd go to ifa, or another farm organisation. How were you to know you were going to go down in the tb test.