Dairy Chitchat 4, an udder new thread.

Green&Red

whelan2 wrote: »

When I sell calves it's mostly to repeat customers. Calves leave here A1. At 10 days they are stronger and it's less stress on them if they are not moved until then. Each to their own but I dont want people coming back complaining of the extra work with sick calves. A few minutes extra work for happy customers .

In my case it’s a 20 minute trip. That length it makes no odds whether they’re 7, 14 or 21 days IMO.
Provided they leave in good condition and arrive into proper facilities

Castlekeeper

Injuryprone wrote: »

Why??

Dar will pass it onto you...

Castlekeeper

Green&Red wrote: »

On the early movements

Say you spend 10 minutes a day on the calf
€20 x 1.16 = €23.33
42L milk X €0.32 = €13.44
Say €3 on straw

That’s €40 for a €100 calf, maybe a €150 calf

The limit is 65km, that’s maximum 40 minutes.

Is there that much of a difference moving a calf for 40 minutes when they’re a week rather than two weeks old? You’re not talking about long haul here

That’s not pricing in the risk of the calf getting scour, pneumonia etc

Well an orphaned calf on a farm is a pretty vulnerable creature for the first few weeks of life.
Their best chance of good health is to be in good facilities with enough nutrition, having got sufficient biestings. It takes time for them to build up bodymass and their immune systems. Stresses such as transport, being taken to a new herd, mixed with other calves from other herds, and changes in diet are not helpful for the calf's health, hence the basic welfare requirements.
If a farm hasn't got the time or labour in situ to look after calves for a minimum of 10 days, they shouldn't have the cows.
65 km in 40mins? Max?? 97.5 km/hr,with young calves? that's just mad Ted, (unless you're driving between motorway exits of course!)

PS
There's a big difference between a 7 day old and a 21 day old calf.

3 the square

any one buy crushed stone to blind a cow track lately what kind of money per ton ???

whelan2

Calves are supposed to get rotavec treated biestings fir at least 12 days after birth to give them full use of the vaccine too. Waste of money otherwise

straight

Green&Red wrote: »

On the early movements

Say you spend 10 minutes a day on the calf
€20 x 1.16 = €23.33
42L milk X €0.32 = €13.44
Say €3 on straw

That’s €40 for a €100 calf, maybe a €150 calf

The limit is 65km, that’s maximum 40 minutes.

Is there that much of a difference moving a calf for 40 minutes when they’re a week rather than two weeks old? You’re not talking about long haul here

That’s not pricing in the risk of the calf getting scour, pneumonia etc

It's not counting the cost of the AI straw either or the actual calving. Also not the price of tags or BVD test.

White Clover

Green&Red wrote: »

On the early movements

Say you spend 10 minutes a day on the calf
€20 x 1.16 = €23.33
42L milk X €0.32 = €13.44
Say €3 on straw

That’s €40 for a €100 calf, maybe a €150 calf

The limit is 65km, that’s maximum 40 minutes.

Is there that much of a difference moving a calf for 40 minutes when they’re a week rather than two weeks old? You’re not talking about long haul here

That’s not pricing in the risk of the calf getting scour, pneumonia etc

You could put the cost against the cow too. In order to get the cow to produce, she has to calve. Therefore it's a cost of milk production.

Green&Red

straight wrote: »

It's not counting the cost of the AI straw either or the actual calving. Also not the price of tags or BVD test.

White Clover wrote: »

You could put the cost against the cow too. In order to get the cow to produce, she has to calve. Therefore it's a cost of milk production.

Not sure what either point is, I pointed out the saving of getting rid of a calf seven days earlier

Say my name

Twenty years ago my father used to buy fr/hol heifer calves off one particular farm. The price was £200 for a 14 day old or £250 for a 21 day old.
For us the buyer we were way better off with the twenty day old. We bought an odd 14 day old to test the waters when we were there but they were just not worth the risk and we lost a couple. You don't be long seeing the value and pay for the 21 day old then.

The way for me your stock are a reflection of yourself. It's all your decision totally that made that animal and its totally your management how it's fed and minded.
If you're on an open forum wondering about moving ten day old or less animals. It tells me your system is broken.
You either haven't got the facilities to mind them.
You're worried about bugs and infection which goes to colostrum intake, feeding and cleanliness.
You haven't got the Labour to manage calves.

What I'm saying it's all abnormal. It's abnormal for 99% of farmers. Maybe you should go back and look at your system if you really need to ask this question here.

Injuryprone

Castlekeeper wrote: »

Dar will pass it onto you...

Do you understand how cows are scanned?

Green&Red

Say my name wrote: »

Twenty years ago my father used to buy fr/hol heifer calves off one particular farm. The price was £200 for a 14 day old or £250 for a 21 day old.
For us the buyer we were way better off with the twenty day old. We bought an odd 14 day old to test the waters when we were there but they were just not worth the risk and we lost a couple. You don't be long seeing the value and pay for the 21 day old then.

The way for me your stock are a reflection of yourself. It's all your decision totally that made that animal and its totally your management how it's fed and minded.
If you're on an open forum wondering about moving ten day old or less animals. It tells me your system is broken.
You either haven't got the facilities to mind them.
You're worried about bugs and infection which goes to colostrum intake, feeding and cleanliness.
You haven't got the Labour to manage calves.

What I'm saying it's all abnormal. It's abnormal for 99% of farmers. Maybe you should go back and look at your system if you really need to ask this question here.

I didn’t ask a question about moving a 10 day old calf


I never said I didn’t have the facilities or the labour


I worry about all young stock and infection, it’s the most vulnerable time of any animals life, of course I worry about it, I’ve had crypto run through a calf shed before, I know exactly the dangers


What I did do was point out the savings to be made in moving a calf a week early, that was it, that was the whole point. You’ve created a narrative around that point to suit your perception


Your point about your father buying 21 day old calves is irrelevant, I’m not buying any calves

The man buying my calves has bought stock from me previously, he lives 20 minutes from me and is anxious to take them.

My whole point was around the economics of the thing, a week earlier is a saving of €40/calf

If the man waited a week and paid me €40 extra I’ve no doubt it would be better value for him

straight

Green&Red wrote: »

Not sure what either point is, I pointed out the saving of getting rid of a calf seven days earlier

As far as I'm concerned movement is not allowed below 10 days and 14 days for export.

Grueller

Bloody cell count here is up and down like mad. From 520 to 280 to 82, back up to 515. No mastitis evident on the paddle or at milk filter. New cows going into the tank daily.

straight

Grueller wrote: »

Bloody cell count here is up and down like mad. From 520 to 280 to 82, back up to 515. No mastitis evident on the paddle or at milk filter. New cows going into the tank daily.

I find it very erratic this time of the year too. Especially with small numbers at the start and with compact calving as you go along with all the fresh cows daily.

blackdog1

Grueller wrote: »

Bloody cell count here is up and down like mad. From 520 to 280 to 82, back up to 515. No mastitis evident on the paddle or at milk filter. New cows going into the tank daily.

If your leaving fresh cows milk into the tank your scc will go up and down. Some cows can be clear of antibiotics after calving but have an scc of 1 million before it settles down to under 100. I've often seen this when taking milk samples to the lab. Wouldn't lose my mind just yet over it

Castlekeeper

Injuryprone wrote: »

Do you understand how cows are scanned?

All QR codes innit these days?

FFS...

mahoney_j

Green&Red wrote: »

I didn’t ask a question about moving a 10 day old calf


I never said I didn’t have the facilities or the labour


I worry about all young stock and infection, it’s the most vulnerable time of any animals life, of course I worry about it, I’ve had crypto run through a calf shed before, I know exactly the dangers


What I did do was point out the savings to be made in moving a calf a week early, that was it, that was the whole point. You’ve created a narrative around that point to suit your perception


Your point about your father buying 21 day old calves is irrelevant, I’m not buying any calves

The man buying my calves has bought stock from me previously, he lives 20 minutes from me and is anxious to take them.

My whole point was around the economics of the thing, a week earlier is a saving of €40/calf

If the man waited a week and paid me €40 extra I’ve no doubt it would be better value for him

Tbf say my name post is fairly bang on ,not criticising your method but personally think moving calves less than 10 days old is lunacy ,facilities on farm will have to be stepped up if u can’t keep calves for 21 days .massive risk buying a calf that young ,economics shouldn’t come into it for sake of 11 days milk much stronger healthier calf at 22 days .....what would u do if you were locked with tb

Bass Reeves

mahoney_j wrote: »

Tbf say my name post is fairly bang on ,not criticising your method but personally think moving calves less than 10 days old is lunacy ,facilities on farm will have to be stepped up if u can’t keep calves for 21 days .massive risk buying a calf that young ,economics shouldn’t come into it for sake of 11 days milk much stronger healthier calf at 22 days .....what would u do if you were locked with tb

Do calves not have to be a minimum of 10 days or is it 2 weeks before movements

Green&Red

mahoney_j wrote: »

Tbf say my name post is fairly bang on ,not criticising your method but personally think moving calves less than 10 days old is lunacy ,facilities on farm will have to be stepped up if u can’t keep calves for 21 days .massive risk buying a calf that young ,economics shouldn’t come into it for sake of 11 days milk much stronger healthier calf at 22 days .....what would u do if you were locked with tb

I have never said I have an issue with holding calves, that’s an argument say my name brought into it to make a personal attack on me and how I farm rather than my point. I have more than enough sheds to keep all the calves that will be born on my farm this spring. If I was stuck with them all until they went out to grass i have the space. I’ve never had TB so I don’t usually factor that into decisions I make but again I have enough space.

What I said was keeping a calf an extra week costs €40.

As for the risk, not to be flippant but that risk isn’t mine to worry about. Someone else made the point yesterday about a calf going to a crowded shed on a new farm. Not something I can control. I presume the man buying the calf will want it to do will and will treat it as such.

I can control the condition the calf leaves my farm in, I intend to do that.

The arguments against me are merging animal welfare and animal growth which is unfair. The welfare of the calf moving 20 minutes up the road will be the same this week as next IMO

Say my name

mahoney_j wrote: »

Tbf say my name post is fairly bang on ,not criticising your method but personally think moving calves less than 10 days old is lunacy ,facilities on farm will have to be stepped up if u can’t keep calves for 21 days .massive risk buying a calf that young ,economics shouldn’t come into it for sake of 11 days milk much stronger healthier calf at 22 days .....what would u do if you were locked with tb

Out of sight out of mind.

The same applies to posts on here.
People that have the power to make the rules can also read here.

If posters are wondering when they can shift off calves because it costs too much to rear them and see no issue with a few days old. It sends the message to one's that make the rules that the rules are not strict enough.
We've already seen the ages pushed up for export (rightly so).
The age for sale to farm will only get pushed up too.

The Bord Bia audit now includes calf rearing facilities (rightly so too).

All brought on by pressure and concerns from eyes looking on.
It mightnt be inconceivable in the future that the minimum age for calf movement be 42 days all because of pushing by farmers on the system and push back by the dept.

mahoney_j

Green&Red wrote: »

I have never said I have an issue with holding calves, that’s an argument say my name brought into it to make a personal attack on me and how I farm rather than my point. I have more than enough sheds to keep all the calves that will be born on my farm this spring. If I was stuck with them all until they went out to grass i have the space. I’ve never had TB so I don’t usually factor that into decisions I make but again I have enough space.

What I said was keeping a calf an extra week costs €40.

As for the risk, not to be flippant but that risk isn’t mine to worry about. Someone else made the point yesterday about a calf going to a crowded shed on a new farm. Not something I can control. I presume the man buying the calf will want it to do will and will treat it as such.

I can control the condition the calf leaves my farm in, I intend to do that.

The arguments against me are merging animal welfare and animal growth which is unfair. The welfare of the calf moving 20 minutes up the road will be the same this week as next IMO

Again no slur meant on your system ,I’d be worried about it though ...exports looking like they’ll be stopped sooner rather than later for at least young calves and the feelers are been put out about not been allowed move calves for first 42 days .I wouldn’t be working around a system in future than involves moving calves at most likely less than 21 days ,you say 40 euros to keep calves an extra week ,what’s the breakdown ,seems high ..
A lot of lads are pulling the piss with calf birth dates too which isn’t helping

whelan2

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Do calves not have to be a minimum of 10 days or is it 2 weeks before movements

2 weeks for export. Think its 10 days for mart.

Green&Red

mahoney_j wrote: »

Again no slur meant on your system ,I’d be worried about it though ...exports looking like they’ll be stopped sooner rather than later for at least young calves and the feelers are been put out about not been allowed move calves for first 42 days .I wouldn’t be working around a system in future than involves moving calves at most likely less than 21 days ,you say 40 euros to keep calves an extra week ,what’s the breakdown ,seems high ..
A lot of lads are pulling the piss with calf birth dates too which isn’t helping

When I said I had enough space to keep all my calves until they went to grass, that wasn’t a euphemism for something else.
I have the space, I see more value in getting rid of them early. I see farmers who keep them until they’re 16 months, I don’t see the value in that.

€40 below

Green&Red wrote: »

On the early movements

Say you spend 10 minutes a day on the calf
€20 x 1.16 = €23.33
42L milk X €0.32 = €13.44
Say €3 on straw

That’s €40 for a €100 calf, maybe a €150 calf


That’s not pricing in the risk of the calf getting scour, pneumonia etc

mahoney_j

Green&Red wrote: »

When I said I had enough space to keep all my calves until they went to grass, that wasn’t a euphemism for something else.
I have the space, I see more value in getting rid of them early. I see farmers who keep them until they’re 16 months, I don’t see the value in that.

€40 below

In 5 years time do u think that system will still be allowed ??
On keeping them till 16 months or weakling etc depends on farm but I’ve always kept cattle as fragmented farm ,u won’t get rich but there a twist in them if there done well as calves

Base price

mahoney_j wrote: »

Again no slur meant on your system ,I’d be worried about it though ...exports looking like they’ll be stopped sooner rather than later for at least young calves and the feelers are been put out about not been allowed move calves for first 42 days .I wouldn’t be working around a system in future than involves moving calves at most likely less than 21 days ,you say 40 euros to keep calves an extra week ,what’s the breakdown ,seems high ..
A lot of lads are pulling the piss with calf birth dates too which isn’t helping

I saw a good few calves in the marts last year and they clearly were not as old/navels weren't near healed as the date on the blue card.

Bass Reeves

Base price wrote: »

I saw a good few calves in the marts last year and they clearly were not as old/navels weren't near healed as the date on the blue card.

If I was buying calves online now, before I remove any calf from the mart I check the navels. If they were not dried up I not be taking them home. Even if bidding and I was at the ring I reject any calf after that the navel was not clearly healed regardless of the card age.

The law on movement is that navels must be cured before sale along with age. It would stop that sh!t dead in its tracks

cute geoge

Base price wrote: »

I saw a good few calves in the marts last year and they clearly were not as old/navels weren't near healed as the date on the blue card.

How the **** can you back up a statement like that .A lot of factors can cause a navel not to heal .Some lads just dont have a clue .I have often seen calves navel not healed up to 3 weeks old

Bass Reeves

cute geoge wrote: »

How the **** can you back up a statement like that .A lot of factors can cause a navel not to heal .Some lads just dont have a clue .I have often seen calves navel not healed up to 3 weeks old

Then they should not be in the mart.

Base price

cute geoge wrote: »

How the **** can you back up a statement like that .A lot of factors can cause a navel not to heal .Some lads just dont have a clue .I have often seen calves navel not healed up to 3 weeks old

I bet if you did a parentage test, the dam on the card wouldn't match up as the dam of the bull calf.
As Bass said calves should not be in a mart/sold unless their navels have healed. There is legislation in place to prevent marts from accepting such calves and unless it's enacted some farmers will continue to take the piss and send them forward for sale.

cute geoge

Base price wrote: »

I bet if you did a parentage test, the dam on the card wouldn't match up as the dam of the bull calf.
As Bass said calves should not be in a mart/sold unless their navels have healed. There is legislation in place to prevent marts from accepting such calves and unless it's enacted some farmers will continue to take the piss and send them forward for sale.

Your wasted on here ,