Green List (Who will be on it?)

MarkY91

Off to Austria on Monday.

How do the government plan to force me into isolating?

padjocollins

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

germany 2457 cases per 1million pop , current active cases 6,610 , pop 83 mill
Rep ireland 5,222 cases per 1 million , current active cases 685, pop 4.94 mill

how is germany not on the green list, what am i missing ? i'm heading back to Ireland next weekend.

un5byh7sqpd2x0

MarkY91 wrote: »

Off to Austria on Monday.

How do the government plan to force me into isolating?

They’ll tie you to a chair in arrivals for 14 days.

un5byh7sqpd2x0

padjocollins wrote: »

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

germany 2457 cases per 1million pop , current active cases 6,610 , pop 83 mill
Rep ireland 5,222 cases per 1 million , current active cases 685, pop 4.94 mill

how is germany not on the green list, what am i missing ? i'm heading back to Ireland next weekend.

Germany’s 14 day average is 6.5 per 100,000 which is why. https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/cases-2019-ncov-eueea

LXFlyer

MarkY91 wrote: »

Off to Austria on Monday.

How do the government plan to force me into isolating?

Legally, they can’t. But they are requesting you to.

However they require you to fill out the passenger locator form accurately, and if you’re not where you said you’d be on it, then potentially they could penalise you.

Coveney indicated on the radio earlier that there would be additional measures to do with this area implemented by August 10th.

Basically, at the moment, they are asking you exercise some civic responsibility towards everyone else in the country when you return from Austria, and self-isolate.

Higgins5473

elefant wrote: »

Bit harsh after 3 and a half weeks.

And what an eventful 3 and half weeks of disaster it has been.

This government in its current form is not what anybody voted for, it’s a shambles so far and it won’t change.

bcklschaps

Varadkhar may be an odious little squirt but he was right in relation to the Green list. ie. Why bother?

WacoKid

LXFlyer wrote: »

However they require you to fill out the passenger locator form accurately, and if you’re not where you said you’d be on it, then potentially they could penalise you.

As I read it you have to state your primary residence but you do not have to stay indoors at this residence at all times.

bear1

So what if you want to enter Ireland for a weekend?
Essentially you can't?
I need to come in August for a weekend but should I even bother then if in theory I can't?
And Greenland? I'd love to see the amount of Greenlanders that come to Ireland for anything..

Donald Trump

bcklschaps wrote: »

Varadkhar may be an odious little squirt but he was right in relation to the Green list. ie. Why bother?

But he didn't say that.


He said there would be no point in having a green list if the guidance surrounding the countries on it was the same as the countries not on it.


And it isn't. Come back from Italy and you aren't being told to quarantine. Come back from the UK and you are being told to quarantine for 14 days.

bear1

Donald Trump wrote: »

But he didn't say that.


He said there would be no point in having a green list if the guidance surrounding the countries on it was the same as the countries not on it.


And it isn't. Come back from Italy and you aren't being told to quarantine. Come back from the UK and you are being told to quarantine for 14 days.

Not the full UK though...

Donald Trump

bear1 wrote: »

Not the full UK though...

Well you know what I mean. We can use Spain as an example country instead

bear1

It's still a ridiculous list, and still it doesn't answer the question if visiting for a weekend is even possible if you are arriving from a country which isn't on the list.
Unless, you live say near Lithuania and hope on a plane to Dublin and bingo bango you're good to go.
Or catch a flight to Belfast and head over the border.

LXFlyer

WacoKid wrote: »

As I read it you have to state your primary residence but you do not have to stay indoors at this residence at all times.

You are requested to self-isolate at that address.

Legally that's all they can do right now.

That may change based on what the Minister said earlier.

Right now, they are relying on people showing some civic responsibility towards everyone else.

reg114

Dante7 wrote: »

Why is it that people who know the least about a topic seem to be the ones who try to tell other people what to do?

Just a couple of corrections for you.
The list has already been published.
If planes are obviously high risk, how come there haven't been any outbreaks related to inflight transmission?
The rates aren't skyrocketing in Spain, Belgium or The Netherlands.
I went on holiday to Spain a couple of weeks ago and it was fine.
Locals gave us a huge welcome.
There is no 14 day isolation when you return.

The rest of your post is just you giving us reasons as to why you decided not to go on holiday and how you now want everyone to fall in line with your reasoning to justify that decision.

Spain had 875 cases 15th July yesterday they had 4500 cases, I'd regard that as an exponential increase myself.

Belgium had 91 cases 15th July yesterday it had 595, I'd call that a 600% increase in a week

Holland 3 weeks ago recorded 50 cases, yesterday they had 927 cases, that's a 20 fold increase.

Folks ultimately the advice from government is just that, advice, by all means do your thing, nature will also do its thing regardless. Personally I'll be erring on the side of caution.

LXFlyer

Donald Trump wrote: »

But he didn't say that.


He said there would be no point in having a green list if the guidance surrounding the countries on it was the same as the countries not on it.


And it isn't. Come back from Italy and you aren't being told to quarantine. Come back from the UK and you are being told to quarantine for 14 days.

I think that you mean GB rather than UK - important to get the distinction right.

GB = England, Wales and Scotland

yoshimitsu

Donald Trump wrote: »

There are other important reasons why they do not want people to travel. Each case brought in from abroad is a new seed that causes other cases to spring up. It is far more difficult to control these cases and outbreaks when they can quickly identify the source of the infections. That is why the contact tracing is so important.

You're only looking at one side of the story Don. Tourists from Italy, Greece, UK (through N. Ireland) will be able to come visit Ireland with no need to restrict their movement (lets start using the proper terminology, it's not quarantine or self isolation https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/coronavirus/travel.html). Those tourists will have had contact with a host of other individuals from all over Europe in their countries of origin and through their airports which are not allowed to come here unless they restrict their movement for 14 days. So the policy, as it stands today, does not us "protect us" from the scenario above. These tourists, differently from Irish residents, wont have the COVID tracking app so it makes them even harder to track down. There is no message to Italians today saying "you can come over without restricting movement as of today, but we recommend you dont do it unless it's essential". Ireland is open for business....



Furthermore, do you think the governments of Germany, France, NL, etc are complete cowboys or so incompetent that they do not care about the hypothetical risk you highlight above? Angela Merkel is perfectly fine with Spanish, Portuguese and French tourists coming into Germany and "losing track" of their infectious potential as they wander through the country and plague the 88m Teutonic citizens left, right and center?

Or maybe, just maybe, the healthcare experts in those countries, in the broader EU, in the WHO and ECDC have analyzed, studied, charted, modeled the risk from opening up one's economy to tourism from within the EC and have deemed it a low enough risk that they have allowed it. And, factually speaking, since things have opened up in mid-June, we have has a few dozen infections at most from tourism-related cases across Europe. Cases have been community related: slaughterhouse in Germany, fruit pickers in Spain, construction workers in Dublin.



Those above were facts, what follows is my personal opinion: I trust the judgement of those people and institutions 1000x more than I do that of the "experts" that oversee one of the most backwards healthcare system in Europe: underfunded, badly run, lacking some of the standard procedures that have been available for decades elsewhere in Europe (green or red list countries). I think the advisory panel of the ECDC comprised of 2 leading experts from each of the 27 countries in the EU is more qualified than the HSE, Chief Medical examiner and ruling politicians of this country

Dante7

LXFlyer wrote: »

A correction for you:
You are right that there is no legal requirement for 14-day isolation when you return.

However, if travelling from Spain you are certainly requested by the Irish Government to self-isolate for 14 days when you return to Ireland, and you are certainly required by law to fill out the passenger locator form accurately, which lists the address at which you will reside for those 14 days. It is an offence not to fill out the form accurately.

You are not requested to self-isolate. You are requested to restrict your movements.

"What to do on entering Ireland from abroad:
The Irish Authorities require anyone coming into Ireland, apart from Northern Ireland, to restrict their movements for 14 days, this includes citizens and residents returning to Ireland. Restricting your movements means staying indoors in one location and avoiding contact with other people and social situations as much as possible. "

https://www.dfa.ie/travel/travel-advice/a-z-list-of-countries/spain/

Donald Trump

Dante7 wrote: »

You are not requested to self-isolate. You are requested to restrict your movements.

"What to do on entering Ireland from abroad:
The Irish Authorities require anyone coming into Ireland, apart from Northern Ireland, to restrict their movements for 14 days, this includes citizens and residents returning to Ireland. Restricting your movements means staying indoors in one location and avoiding contact with other people and social situations as much as possible. "

https://www.dfa.ie/travel/travel-advice/a-z-list-of-countries/spain/

Everyone understands what it means.




https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/coronavirus/managing-coronavirus-at-home/if-you-live-with-someone-who-has-coronavirus.html#restrict

Do not go to work.
Do not use public transport.
Do not have visitors at your home
Do not visit others, even if you usually care for them.
Do not go to the shops or pharmacy unless it's absolutely necessary - where possible, order your groceries online or have some family or friends drop them off.
Do not meet face-to-face with older people, anyone with a long-term medical condition or pregnant women

People may argue pedantics and semantics over definitions vis-a-vis quarantine. But most reasonable people understand the spirit of what it means.

WacoKid

LXFlyer wrote: »

You are requested to self-isolate at that address.

Legally that's all they can do right now.

That may change based on what the Minister said earlier.

Right now, they are relying on people showing some civic responsibility towards everyone else.

You are requested to restrict your movements not self-isolate:

https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/coronavirus/travel.html#Restrict-movements-travel

MickeyLeari

Donald Trump wrote: »

Everyone understands what it means.




https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/coronavirus/managing-coronavirus-at-home/if-you-live-with-someone-who-has-coronavirus.html#restrict


People may argue pedantics and semantics over definitions vis-a-vis quarantine. But most reasonable people understand the spirit of what it means.

And if you are a public servant you are required to take 2 weeks annual or unpaid leave to cover that period of restriction of movements.

ninebeanrows

So it's a bit clearer now.

Appears list is for countries with 5 per 100k 14 day average infection rate.

I guess this might be eased later in year to allow 10 per 100k once or if schools go back successfully.

If all EU nations can get there 14 day average to 10 per 100k, we will all be doing very well at managing this virus.

Assetbacked

reg114 wrote: »

Spain had 875 cases 15th July yesterday they had 4500 cases, I'd regard that as an exponential increase myself.

Belgium had 91 cases 15th July yesterday it had 595, I'd call that a 600% increase in a week

Holland 3 weeks ago recorded 50 cases, yesterday they had 927 cases, that's a 20 fold increase.

Folks ultimately the advice from government is just that, advice, by all means do your thing, nature will also do its thing regardless. Personally I'll be erring on the side of caution.

Nail on the head, applicable to those that travel and those that don't.

CBear1993

Look, it's all a pile of bollocks again. The rest of Europe will be laughing at us this morning with our poxy coloured lists,we're being run by pre-schoolers who took weeks to name 15 random countries.

Some of the countries who missed out are very marginally higher than the countries listed, which may I add a few of them have very little pull to attract any tourists - they knew fine rightly what they were at here with san marino & greenland.

The fact that my parents from the north can drive down to dublin tomorrow, jet off to switzerland for a few days, back to dublin and up the road again with not a word said to them is farcical. Yet if I went to do the same they're telling us there'll be checkups and all this nonsense. Yeah right...

Here's an idea - make a red list of counties that are RIPPING THE SH*TE out of irish people in their own country. Extortionate meal, accommodation and expense prices. Only here, the paddy would jack up the costs on their own people. Meanwhile in europe they are attracting people in with lower costs to come and visit.

The tourism sector works eerily like FF with this method, money for me, money for my mate, his mate, we all get pay rises, f*ck the average john and mary. Sure whatever we loss this year we'll tax them. Ah you're from america mr texas? Let me give you a hand with your moneybags there, come and spend it all you like.

Limpy

I travelled via mini busses and trains around most of the eastern bloc. I depart from Vilnius the weekend and won't have to isolate thankfully.

I think people would buy into a government strategy if they were giving refunds. Instead the Gov want's them to stay home and let TAs keep the cash.

ninebeanrows

The HSE need to update their travel advice online with the Green list otherwise it continues to be a farce, considering they advised the government on the criteria to use!!
I suspect it will over next few days when civil servants update the website etc

Dante7

reg114 wrote: »

Spain had 875 cases 15th July yesterday they had 4500 cases, I'd regard that as an exponential increase myself.

No they didn't. Yesterday Spain had 529 new cases.

https://www.mscbs.gob.es/profesionales/saludPublica/ccayes/alertasActual/nCov-China/documentos/Actualizacion_167_COVID-19.pdf

Belgium had 91 cases 15th July yesterday it had 595, I'd call that a 600% increase in a week

No they didn't. Yesterday Belgium had 201 cases.

https://epistat.wiv-isp.be/covid/covid-19.html

Holland 3 weeks ago recorded 50 cases, yesterday they had 927 cases, that's a 20 fold increase.

No they didn't. Yesterday The Netherlands had 163 cases.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/netherlands/

Folks ultimately the advice from government is just that, advice, by all means do your thing, nature will also do its thing regardless. Personally I'll be erring on the side of caution.

Folks, by all means just ignore everything this person says.

Donald Trump

yoshimitsu wrote: »

You're only looking at one side of the story Don. Tourists from Italy, Greece, UK (through N. Ireland) will be able to come visit Ireland with no need to restrict their movement (lets start using the proper terminology, it's not quarantine or self isolation https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/coronavirus/travel.html). Those tourists will have had contact with a host of other individuals from all over Europe in their countries of origin and through their airports which are not allowed to come here unless they restrict their movement for 14 days. So the policy, as it stands today, does not us "protect us" from the scenario above. These tourists, differently from Irish residents, wont have the COVID tracking app so it makes them even harder to track down. There is no message to Italians today saying "you can come over without restricting movement as of today, but we recommend you dont do it unless it's essential". Ireland is open for business....



Furthermore, do you think the governments of Germany, France, NL, etc are complete cowboys or so incompetent that they do not care about the hypothetical risk you highlight above? Angela Merkel is perfectly fine with Spanish, Portuguese and French tourists coming into Germany and "losing track" of their infectious potential as they wander through the country and plague the 88m Teutonic citizens left, right and center?

Or maybe, just maybe, the healthcare experts in those countries, in the broader EU, in the WHO and ECDC have analyzed, studied, charted, modeled the risk from opening up one's economy to tourism from within the EC and have deemed it a low enough risk that they have allowed it. And, factually speaking, since things have opened up in mid-June, we have has a few dozen infections at most from tourism-related cases across Europe. Cases have been community related: slaughterhouse in Germany, fruit pickers in Spain, construction workers in Dublin.



Those above were facts, what follows is my personal opinion: I trust the judgement of those people and institutions 1000x more than I do that of the "experts" that oversee one of the most backwards healthcare system in Europe: underfunded, badly run, lacking some of the standard procedures that have been available for decades elsewhere in Europe (green or red list countries). I think the advisory panel of the ECDC comprised of 2 leading experts from each of the 27 countries in the EU is more qualified than the HSE, Chief Medical examiner and ruling politicians of this country

What is your point?
Is it only a "yeah but look over there. Those fellas can potentially do something bad so I should be able to do it as well"


At the end of the day each of us can only do our bit. It is up to yourself whether you want to be part of the solution or part of the problem. If someone wants to be selfish and completely self-centred then they might just brazenly do whatever they want.

If someone wants to act up and they can internally rationalize their own irresponsible behavior on the fact that there is a loophole somewhere else that someone else might take advantage of, then certain people will do that too.


I get reminded of the time they were trying to install water meters and people justified intimidating and attacking the workers because "shure the gubbermint gave de bankers money".


Someone can go off on their holidays to Spain next week and bluff that it is "essential travel" and upon their return, fill out the form and then ignore the conditions and head straight off to meet their buddies at a house party. The fact that there are loopholes does not mean then that nobody should follow the guidelines.


I can go down the local Tesco and see a fella putting a bar of chocolate into his pocket and walking out. And he gets away with it. It doesn't mean I'm going to feel that I shouldn't have to pay for my trolley of goods.

Assetbacked

Dante7 wrote: »

No they didn't. Yesterday Spain had 529 new cases.

https://www.mscbs.gob.es/profesionales/saludPublica/ccayes/alertasActual/nCov-China/documentos/Actualizacion_167_COVID-19.pdf



No they didn't. Yesterday Belgium had 201 cases.

https://epistat.wiv-isp.be/covid/covid-19.html



No they didn't. Yesterday The Netherlands had 163 cases.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/netherlands/



Folks, by all means just ignore everything this person says.

Here reg114;

LXFlyer

Dante7 wrote: »

You are not requested to self-isolate. You are requested to restrict your movements.

"What to do on entering Ireland from abroad:
The Irish Authorities require anyone coming into Ireland, apart from Northern Ireland, to restrict their movements for 14 days, this includes citizens and residents returning to Ireland. Restricting your movements means staying indoors in one location and avoiding contact with other people and social situations as much as possible. "

https://www.dfa.ie/travel/travel-advice/a-z-list-of-countries/spain/

WacoKid wrote: »

You are requested to restrict your movements not self-isolate:

https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/coronavirus/travel.html#Restrict-movements-travel

I get that - but a request to remain in one location for 14 days and to avoid contact with others would effectively mean isolating yourself.

We could go on about semantics all day long.