Green List (Who will be on it?)

LilyShame

The insurance industry reassurances today, along with the rewritten DFA website clearly stating that it is OK to do snon essential travel to greenlist, are positives today. Let's hope we are on our road to recovery. The next job is to start some positive news on our situation in Ireland, and stop terrifying people in general.

JimmyChew

LilyShame wrote: »

The insurance industry reassurances today, along with the rewritten DFA website clearly stating that it is OK to do snon essential travel to greenlist, are positives today. Let's hope we are on our road to recovery. The next job is to start some positive news on our situation in Ireland, and stop terrifying people in general.

Its going to be a case of refining these rules & restrictions a little at a time with each industry getting their little side deal or gaining enough traction on Govt to allow them to do business. Obviously the metrics will be the main driver.
Lets not forget a lot of stuff is still getting done on the fly & nothing moves quickly in government. Hopefully (but i'm not confident) we can start to settle into a further opening up of travel over the coming weeks a little at a time.

cyclops999

From a mate who owns a bar in Lanzarote. Hey ***** at the moment as of yesterday there are only 8 live cases 5 are refugees that came in on a dingy, and isolated from the port, one local that lived in Mexico and traveled home for a family event and two British tourists. So far in total since numbers were recorded the island has only had 96 cases and 6 deaths, everything is opening up more and more, you wont go hungry or thirsty, beaches are fully open but no sun beds at the moment.

Dante7

cyclops999 wrote: »

From a mate who owns a bar in Lanzarote. Hey ***** at the moment as of yesterday there are only 8 live cases 5 are refugees that came in on a dingy, and isolated from the port, one local that lived in Mexico and traveled home for a family event and two British tourists. So far in total since numbers were recorded the island has only had 96 cases and 6 deaths, everything is opening up more and more, you wont go hungry or thirsty, beaches are fully open but no sun beds at the moment.

The sunbeds are out in Playa Blanca. This video is from yesterday.

https://www.facebook.com/andrea.plaw/videos/10159114666664386

cyclops999

Dante7 wrote: »

The sunbeds are out in Playa Blanca. This video is from yesterday.

Puerto del Carmen is where he's based.

Donald Trump

cyclops999 wrote: »

From a mate who owns a bar in Lanzarote. Hey ***** at the moment as of yesterday there are only 8 live cases 5 are refugees that came in on a dingy, and isolated from the port, one local that lived in Mexico and traveled home for a family event and two British tourists. So far in total since numbers were recorded the island has only had 96 cases and 6 deaths, everything is opening up more and more, you wont go hungry or thirsty, beaches are fully open but no sun beds at the moment.

I'm still trying to work out what swear name he calls you that is bad enough to be automatically filtered by the boards.ie filter

Donald Trump

acequion wrote: »

What a sanctimonious and patronising remark! You really did pick an apt user name.

Too close to the bone perchance?


Did you follow procedures when you just came back from Spain literally 2-3 days ago?


And as you admit yourself, you will be traveling back to Spain and perhaps Portugal soon? That's fine as long as you stay there.



As I said, the majority will make an civically responsible effort and try to suppress the virus. There is little we can do about the minority who are either not educated enough to understand the risks that they are creating, or are selfish enough that they don't care.



The responsible ones will just have to compensate for those by having to make their sacrifices for longer when the selfish ones inevitably seed further outbreaks as a result of their non-essential travel.



The selfish ones will ride on the backs of the responsible ones, as always!

Limpy

Donald Trump wrote: »

Too close to the bone perchance?


Did you follow procedures when you just came back from Spain literally 2-3 days ago?


And as you admit yourself, you will be traveling back to Spain and perhaps Portugal soon? That's fine as long as you stay there.



As I said, the majority will make an civically responsible effort and try to suppress the virus. There is little we can do about the minority who are either not educated enough to understand the risks that they are creating, or are selfish enough that they don't care.



The responsible ones will just have to compensate for those by having to make their sacrifices for longer when the selfish ones inevitably seed further outbreaks as a result of their non-essential travel.



The selfish ones will ride on the backs of the responsible ones, as always!

The whole country will be in need of PUP if they follow your wisdom.

The_Brood

Leo just said that you ARE allowed to travel to the green list countries for holidays. That's the end of the matter.

Donald Trump

The_Brood wrote: »

Leo just said that you ARE allowed to travel to the green list countries for holidays. That's the end of the matter.

Nobody said you were not allowed.
You are "allowed" to travel to any non greenlist country too that will accept you


They recommend, and ask you, not to though.

Donald Trump

Limpy wrote: »

The whole country will be in need of PUP if they follow your wisdom.

Is that what passes for logic in your head?


You going to Santa Ponsa for a few cheap beers on the beach is going to save the Irish economy?

VG31

The_Brood wrote: »

Leo just said that you ARE allowed to travel to the green list countries for holidays. That's the end of the matter.

He didn't say holidays specifically, rather "non-essential reasons". That does mean holidays in effect though.

Beanybabog

Donald Trump wrote: »

Nobody said you were not allowed.
You are "allowed" to travel to any non greenlist country too that will accept you


They recommend, and ask you, not to though.

They don’t- DFA website changed its advice to say non essential travel to green list. The non essential travel recommendation applies elsewhere

The_Brood

Donald Trump wrote: »

Nobody said you were not allowed.
You are "allowed" to travel to any non greenlist country too that will accept you


They recommend, and ask you, not to though.

No, if the official government advice is that you can travel for non-essential purposes like holiday, that means that no one, absolutely no employer or government agency or anyone can ask of you any questions or hold you accountable in any way shape or form for going for a holiday to a green list country.

The "recommend" part becomes in that light utterly and completely useless. You can be recommended to never in your life leave the house without sun-screen on a slightly sunny day, or be recommended to never wear mismatched socks, but no one is going to base their life around that advice.

Donald Trump

Beanybabog wrote: »

They don’t- DFA website changed its advice to say non essential travel to green list. The non essential travel recommendation applies elsewhere

DFA have a different remit. It is a security rating.They are advising on the dangers to you for being in another country. In that sense, if you are in Italy, you have the same risk of infection as if you are in Mullingar say.


Public health advice (NPHET etc.) is not to travel there and come back. They want to avoid new random clusters springing up. They can control and trace outbreaks much better when they can track the source quickly.

Donald Trump

The_Brood wrote: »

No, if the official government advice is that you can travel for non-essential purposes like holiday, that means that no one, absolutely no employer or government agency or anyone can ask of you any questions or hold you accountable in any way shape or form for going for a holiday to a green list country.

The "recommend" part becomes in that light utterly and completely useless. You can be recommended to never in your life leave the house without sun-screen on a slightly sunny day, or be recommended to never wear mismatched socks, but no one is going to base their life around that advice.

This attitude is ridiculous.


Adults shouldn't need explicit laws in order for them to do the obvious socially and civically responsible thing.


"Yeah, well there isn't a specific rule against this particular loophole so I'm gonna do it and fuck everyone else"


You are "allowed" to go wherever will accept you. You can go to the UK or Spain tomorrow if you want.



And yes, an employer can place reasonable restrictions on you returning to the office if they wish, especially if it is a clearly defined policy in advance of your going. It is even likely that any such restrictions would have been agreed with your union should there be one.

The_Brood

Donald Trump wrote: »

This attitude is ridiculous.


Adults shouldn't need explicit laws in order for them to do the obvious socially and civically responsible thing.


"Yeah, well there isn't a specific rule against this particular loophole so I'm gonna do it and fuck everyone else"


You are "allowed" to go wherever will accept you. You can go to the UK or Spain tomorrow if you want.



And yes, an employer can place reasonable restrictions on you returning to the office if they wish, especially if it is a clearly defined policy in advance of your going. It is even likely that any such restrictions would have been agreed with your union should there be one.

How in the world is the Green list a "loop hole" ? You are completely wrong. Leo just said that non-essential travel is ok for those green list countries. That is the entire reason why some countries are on the green list and others are not. From the government's perspective, according to their own reasoning, it would not be "socially responsible" to go to holidays to Spain right now, but Malta - yes it would.

The_Brood

Donald Trump wrote: »

DFA have a different remit. It is a security rating.They are advising on the dangers to you for being in another country. In that sense, if you are in Italy, you have the same risk of infection as if you are in Mullingar say.


Public health advice (NPHET etc.) is not to travel there and come back. They want to avoid new random clusters springing up. They can control and trace outbreaks much better when they can track the source quickly.

This is wrong too. This is the exact comment:

“The Department of Foreign Affairs website says that no non-essential travel is the general advice, but there are exemptions and the exemptions are the green list,” the Tánaiste said.

The green list countries are the exemption to the non-essential travel general advice. That at least is now crystal clear.

Donald Trump

The_Brood wrote: »

How in the world is the Green list a "loop hole" ? You are completely wrong. Leo just said that non-essential travel is ok for those green list countries. That is the entire reason why some countries are on the green list and others are not. From the government's perspective, according to their own reasoning, it would not be "socially responsible" to go to holidays to Spain right now, but Malta - yes it would.

https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/coronavirus/travel.html


I underlined the two important bits

International travel

The safest thing is to not travel abroad. Everyone in Ireland is being asked to holiday at home in 2020.
Coronavirus is still spreading around the world. Many countries are seeing the number of infections increase again. In Ireland, we have made progress on slowing down the spread of the virus. But the risk of bringing back the virus from other countries remains high.
We all have a responsibility to save lives and keep our country moving forward.
Green list locations (normal precautions)

The safest thing is to not travel abroad.
The Department of Foreign Affairs has given some locations a status of 'normal precautions'. This list of locations is sometimes called the 'green list'.
The government decides which locations are on the green list based on the spread of coronavirus in that location. The list will be reviewed every 2 weeks.
This is the current green list of locations:

• Cyprus
• Estonia
• Finland
• Gibraltar
• Greece
• Greenland
• Hungary
• Italy
• Latvia
• Lithuania
• Malta
• Monaco
• Norway
• San Marino
• Slovakia

Donald Trump

The_Brood wrote: »

This is wrong too. This is the exact comment:

“The Department of Foreign Affairs website says that no non-essential travel is the general advice, but there are exemptions and the exemptions are the green list,” the Tánaiste said.

The green list countries are the exemption to the non-essential travel general advice. That at least is now crystal clear.

As explained to you, that is a security rating pertaining to the personal risk to you should you be there.


DFA mandate is for your security when you are abroad (hint is in the "F" for foreign). Their mandate ends when you hit Irish soil.


Public health mandate kicks in when you hit Irish soil. Those guys do not want you coming back with it.


If it makes it easier for you to understand, DFA are concerned with you going there or being there.
Public health mandate kicks in when you are returning and landing on Irish soil!

One group saying that you can go somewhere is not the same as another group saying we don't want you to be coming from there. There is no contradiction. You can keep both groups happy if you go there and do not come back

The_Brood

Donald Trump wrote: »

https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/coronavirus/travel.html


I underlined the two important bits

Well, if you are to make a comment that the mixed signals and confusion being delivered by different departments is absolutely farcical beyond the telling of it, you would be correct.

What Leo said today about the green list is then completely contradictory to what is on the HSE website.

In that case, no person, whatever decision they take or do not take regarding travel to the green list countries, should be held accountable for their decision in any way shape or form by anyone. If any blame is to be assigned for any mistakes, it should 1000% lie on the government for their mixed messaging.

Donald Trump

The_Brood wrote: »

Well, if you are to make a comment that the mixed signals and confusion being delivered by different departments is absolutely farcical beyond the telling of it, you would be correct.

What Leo said today about the green list is then completely contradictory to what is on the HSE website.

In that case, no person, whatever decision they take or do not take regarding travel to the green list countries, should be held accountable for their decision in any way shape or form by anyone. If any blame is to be assigned for any mistakes, it should 1000% lie on the government for their mixed messaging.

I don't know what Leo said apart from what was said on here which was that you area "allowed" to go. I don't see a contradiction. You are "allowed" to go but they are asking you not to. That's not a contradiction. They just aren't forcing you to do it.


I gave an earlier example about an arsehole I used to work with who used to come into the office even if he was coughing and spluttering and dying of the flu. He was "allowed" to come into work. But he shouldn't have done it. Any reasonable person would have agreed he should have taken a sick day rather than coming in and infecting everyone else.

CBear1993

Donald Trump wrote: »

As explained to you, that is a security rating pertaining to the personal risk to you should you be there.


DFA mandate is for your security when you are abroad (hint is in the "F" for foreign). Their mandate ends when you hit Irish soil.


Public health mandate kicks in when you hit Irish soil. Those guys do not want you coming back with it.


If it makes it easier for you to understand, DFA are concerned with you going there or being there.
Public health mandate kicks in when you are returning and landing on Irish soil!

One group saying that you can go somewhere is not the same as another group saying we don't want you to be coming from there. There is no contradiction. You can keep both groups happy if you go there and do not come back

Correct me if I’m wrong (Which I’m sure you’ll do even if you don’t know) but there is no PH mandate When you hit Irish soil at present. When we see figures yesterday of 4,000 calls per 60,000 arrivals, it’s purely an exercise to be seen to be doing something.

A mandate is an official order or commission to do something.

I don’t think anyone is being made do anything on return to Dublin airport to be quite honest.

Donald Trump

CBear1993 wrote: »

Correct me if I’m wrong (Which I’m sure you’ll do even if you don’t know) but there is no PH mandate When you hit Irish soil at present. When we see figures yesterday of 4,000 calls per 60,000 arrivals, it’s purely an exercise to be seen to be doing something.

A mandate is an official order or commission to do something.

I don’t think anyone is being made do anything on return to Dublin airport to be quite honest.

Ok. I'll correct you. Page 6 of this document gives the mandate for NPHET.
What did you think? That it was just some random gang of rogue medics who started to fire out their crazy opinions on twitter?


I mean if you are going to be one of these people who refuses to do reasonable actions because there is nobody standing over you forcing you to do it then there is little that we can do about that. As I said, the responsible majority will have to compensate for the selfish minority.


You surely remember that we had a thing called a lockdown? I mean it was only over the last few months? They asked people to make sacrifices for the collective good. Of course there were a few arseholes who decided that because certain things weren't enshrined in law (maybe it wasn't part of their "oaths" etc) that they weren't going to obey those guidelines. We always have a few of them who will try to ruin the efforts of others.

CBear1993

Donald Trump wrote: »

Ok. I'll correct you. Page 6 of this document gives the mandate for NPHET.


What did you think? That it was just some random gang of rogue medics who started to fire out facts on twitter?


I mean if you are going to be one of these people who refuses to do reasonable actions because there is nobody standing over you forcing you to do it then there is little that we can do about that. As I said, the responsible majority will have to compensate for the selfish minority.


You surely remember that we had a thing called a lockdown? I mean it was only over the last few months? They asked people to make sacrifices for the collective good. Of course there were a few arseholes who decided that because certain things weren't enshrined in law (maybe it wasn't part of their "oaths" etc) that they weren't going to obey those guidelines. We always have a few of them who will try to ruin the efforts of others.

Correct. We all adhered to lockdown as there was nothing worth leaving the house for except a walk in some fresh air or the supermarket. I would say that the very high majority of us adhered to that, as much as it took a toll on people.

However, for you to suggest that we basically all continue to do a much more lenient, but still lockdown, is unrealistic. Loads of people are away at the moment out of Ireland and around Ireland mixing in restaurants and house gatherings, parks, beaches.

Did you expect people to continue to only go outdoors when necessary all summer? To “restrict” our movements?

The people who expect that are in every way just as selfish to expect other people to put their life on hold for their benefit.

Life.goes.on.

Donald Trump

CBear1993 wrote: »

Correct. We all adhered to lockdown as there was nothing worth leaving the house for except a walk in some fresh air or the supermarket. I would say that the very high majority of us adhered to that, as much as it took a toll on people.

However, for you to suggest that we basically all continue to do a much more lenient, but still lockdown, is unrealistic. Loads of people are away at the moment out of Ireland and around Ireland mixing in restaurants and house gatherings, parks, beaches.

Did you expect people to continue to only go outdoors when necessary all summer? To “restrict” our movements?

These people are in every way just as selfish to expect other people to put their life on hold for their benefit.

Life.goes.on.

nobody is talking about lockdown on the Irish context here. The thread is about people who still think that their 39.99 Euro Ryanair flight to the Costa del Sol is the most pressing issue at this point in time.


Look, I can understand that for some, sitting on that beach with one-Euro cans of beer might be the highlight of their year and the limit of their ambition. And yes, of course they might be worried that they might miss out next year should airlines get into trouble and those flights move up to 59.99 Euro. I understand that.



But for most normal people, giving it a miss for this year and maybe holidaying here instead is a perfectly acceptable alternative. Instead of bringing the kids over and laying on the beach, sure you can always bring them off to Glendalough or somewhere. They might learn something and even grow an appreciation for the heritage here.

CBear1993

Donald Trump wrote: »

nobody is talking about lockdown on the Irish context here. The thread is about people who still think that their 39.99 Euro Ryanair flight to the Costa del Sol is the most pressing issue at this point in time.


Look, I can understand that for some, sitting on that beach with one-Euro cans of beer might be the highlight of their year and the limit of their ambition. And yes, of course they might be worried that they might miss out next year should airlines get into trouble and those flights move up to 59.99 Euro. I understand that.



But for most normal people, giving it a miss for this year and maybe holidaying here instead is a perfectly acceptable alternative. Instead of bringing the kids over and laying on the beach, sure you can always bring them off to Glendalough or somewhere. They might learn something and even grow an appreciation for the heritage here.

Will be in Portugal in a private villa in September. Because I want to.

I have no interest spending the same money, actually more on accommodation here to put on my waterproofs or carry clothes for all seasons to eat overpriced cafe/pub/restaurant food.

If we don’t get in September that’s fine. We’ll stay put. But if I can go I will, which you are saying is the view of the minority. I’d disagree that the narrative has changed and most people don’t care if you go away, but it seems to bother you.

No ones talking about kip holes like benidorm or costa del sol, some of us are going to remote areas of other countries that would resemble Kerry or cork here in terms of crowds.

Glendalough, cuilcagh mountain, cliffs of moher , slieve league, are all lovely and great national treasures but for me they’re day trips and nothing more which can be done at any time of the year, maybe in the winter when foreign travel in Europe is lower temperatures.

I would say that is a “normal person” point of view, without being a can slugging bargain hunter “as long as we get to the sun”.

That ok for you Donald?

Limpy

Donald stop trying to live up to your namesake. You've been trying to shame people at every opportunity over travelling abroad.

Eoinbmw

Donald Trump wrote: »

nobody is talking about lockdown on the Irish context here. The thread is about people who still think that their 39.99 Euro Ryanair flight to the Costa del Sol is the most pressing issue at this point in time.


Look, I can understand that for some, sitting on that beach with one-Euro cans of beer might be the highlight of their year and the limit of their ambition. And yes, of course they might be worried that they might miss out next year should airlines get into trouble and those flights move up to 59.99 Euro. I understand that.



But for most normal people, giving it a miss for this year and maybe holidaying here instead is a perfectly acceptable alternative. Instead of bringing the kids over and laying on the beach, sure you can always bring them off to Glendalough or somewhere. They might learn something and even grow an appreciation for the heritage here.

How about a non refundable 1400 euro flight?

LilyShame

Malta looks lovely.

DFA say you can travel there for non essential reasons.

Travel agents are delighted to be trading.

Airlines are still flying.

Insurance industry will commit to policies for green list.

I agree its crazy that the Minister of that Department can message against his own team to help fill the tourism revenues from overseas visitors.

That's politics.