Green List (Who will be on it?)

Assetbacked

Limpy wrote: »

The DFA updated that a few days ago that's old news.

Apologies, I wasn't aware that the public sector forced unpaid leave requirement no longer applied to green zone travel.

johnire

What happens though-and I sincerely hope this doesn’t happen-if you contract Covid 19?

Assetbacked wrote: »

I do. Hence why I fly to Germany next week, won't be telling my office or following restricted movements guidance on my return. Because I see the data and realise that this is an over 65s virus and I don't interact with any. If I did, I'd take precautions on social distancing but everyone has their own responsibility anyway, it's not just about what I do.

You on the other hand respond to data and accompanying opinions with ridicule, bitteeness and whataboutery. Like your usernamesake.

Donald Trump

Assetbacked wrote: »

I do. Hence why I fly to Germany next week, won't be telling my office or following restricted movements guidance on my return. Because I see the data and realise that this is an over 65s virus and I don't interact with any. If I did, I'd take precautions on social distancing but everyone has their own responsibility anyway, it's not just about what I do.

You on the other hand respond to data and accompanying opinions with ridicule, bitteeness and whataboutery. Like your usernamesake.

So you're gonna sneak and lie about it to your colleagues? :rolleyes:



I think that that's a sleeveen way for someone to be conducting themself. But how and ever. If you had the balls, you'd just come out and tell your colleagues and let them get over themselves if you were so confident about your opinion.


If you're gonna do it then you're gonna do it. You might find some validation in like minded people on here as that appears to be what you are looking for. As I said before, there is always a certain cohort of society that the responsible people have to compensate for. There is no much point in getting annoyed over it. That's just the way it is.

Assetbacked

johnire wrote: »

What happens though-and I sincerely hope this doesn’t happen-if you contract Covid 19?

It's a respiratory virus. Looking at the statistics, my odds, with no underlying conditions and not being overweight, combined with my age category would indicate I have at worst a 1 in 25 chance of ending up in hospital and 1 in 1000 chance of dying. These are very Conservative estimates however and potentially could be anywhere from two to ten times less likely than these numbers depending on which models you follow as to what the actual infection rate in Ireland is.

I have an essential journey to make to Germany anyway so I kind of need to go.

Assetbacked

Donald Trump wrote: »

So you're gonna sneak and lie about it to your colleagues? :rolleyes:



I think that that's a sleeveen way for someone to be conducting themself. But how and ever. If you had the balls, you'd just come out and tell your colleagues and let them get over themselves if you were so confident about your opinion.


If you're gonna do it then you're gonna do it. You might find some validation in like minded people on here as that appears to be what you are looking for. As I said before, there is always a certain cohort of society that the responsible people have to compensate for. There is no much point in getting annoyed over it. That's just the way it is.

It's not about having balls, I don't want to have to work from home. It is illogical and irrational that we did not sign up to the EU Green list, which is my basis for travelling, in line with the general EU advice. This is because our government are inept and our health service is one of the worst in Europe. I think your issue should be how so many people take what these two authorities say word from word. The lack of questioning from Irish people dismays me but then I remember these people lived under the Catholic Church for so many years and also more recently still voted en masse for FF and FG.

Thephantomsmask

Limpy wrote: »

The DFA updated that a few days ago that's old news.

The DPER circular issued on July 14th has not yet been rescinded as far as I am aware. Until that is updated the restrictions remain unfortunately, regardless of DFA advice.

https://www.gov.ie/en/news/f819e5-covid-19-information-for-civil-and-public-servants/

Heather Humphreys also stated public sector are not to be paid for non-essential travel on the 27th with no mention of exceptions to the green list countries.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40022792.html?type=amp&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&__twitter_impression=true

Donald Trump

Assetbacked wrote: »

It's not about having balls, I don't want to have to work from home. It is illogical and irrational that we did not sign up to the EU Green list, which is my basis for travelling, in line with the general EU advice. This is because our government are inept and our health service is one of the worst in Europe. I think your issue should be how so many people take what these two authorities say word from word. The lack of questioning from Irish people dismays me but then I remember these people lived under the Catholic Church for so many years and also more recently still voted en masse for FF and FG.

If you are going to go away, nobody is going to stop you. You are supposed to be an adult.



Have the decency (and the balls) to be honest with your co-workers who might have to share space with you when you come back. Maybe they won't care or maybe some of them have immuno-compromised loved ones at home. But sure I supposed that the main thing for yourself is that you don't want to work from home. Not that you can't.



There's no point trying to deflect to blaming priests or whatever that is supposed to be about.

un5byh7sqpd2x0

i see the latest Portuguese data has 8 cases imported from Ireland solely, and 1 from Germany/Ireland. 88 from the UK.

Spain's 14 day rolling average has gone above 50 to 51.11 - it was mid-30s only 5 days ago. Balearics up to 12.96, Canaries up to 6.97.

PS: @Feria40 - positive antibody tests only account for between 1 & 5% of all total positive tests.

Assetbacked

Donald Trump wrote: »

If you are going to go away, nobody is going to stop you. You are supposed to be an adult.



Have the decency (and the balls) to be honest with your co-workers who might have to share space with you when you come back. Maybe they won't care or maybe some of them have immuno-compromised loved ones at home. But sure I supposed that the main thing for yourself is that you don't want to work from home. Not that you can't.



There's no point trying to deflect to blaming priests or whatever that is supposed to be about.

It's not a harmful virus for those of working age (under 65) who are healthy, disregarding those who let themselves be overweight. If you want to hide from the virus, go ahead, but the world isn't stopping for hypochondriacs and ignorants. This contextualise my actions.

Talking about having decency and balls in your posts is an hilariously pathetic attempt to shame and guilt me into my own data driven actions as you cannot refute the data. See attached and do yourself a favour and read it, rather than using your own ignorance to fuel your posts.

HBC08

horse7 wrote: »

Canada is 3 per 100,000, still not on our green list.

Canada are not accepting Irish except under very strict conditions.

Assetbacked

Thephantomsmask wrote: »

The DPER circular issued on July 14th has not yet been rescinded as far as I am aware. Until that is updated the restrictions remain unfortunately, regardless of DFA advice.

https://www.gov.ie/en/news/f819e5-covid-19-information-for-civil-and-public-servants/

Heather Humphreys also stated public sector are not to be paid for non-essential travel on the 27th with no mention of exceptions to the green list countries.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40022792.html?type=amp&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&__twitter_impression=true

Well that surely must go in the bin if they have had to come out and make that statement on green list travel today in respect of those receiving benefits. I wonder what the appetite is in the PS to challenge this.

faceman

Zelda Creamy Gym wrote: »

i see the latest Portuguese data has 8 cases imported from Ireland solely, and 1 from Germany/Ireland. 88 from the UK.

Spain's 14 day rolling average has gone above 50 to 51.11 - it was mid-30s only 5 days ago. Balearics up to 12.96, Canaries up to 6.97.

PS: @Feria40 - positive antibody tests only account for between 1 & 5% of all total positive tests.

Spain’s spike is pretty much due to 2 areas. Makes no sense tarring the whole country with the one brush. The Spanish aren’t doing it locally that’s for sure

Thephantomsmask

Assetbacked wrote: »

Well that surely must go in the bin if they have had to come out and make that statement on green list travel today in respect of those receiving benefits. I wonder what the appetite is in the PS to challenge this.

I'm not in a union but from what colleagues have told me, letters of complaint have been sent. Nobody is pleased about it though from general conversation, not necessarily from a wanting to go on holiday POV, more so due to an employer being able to sanction somebody for what they do on their personal time even if they are obeying the law and not causing any sort of disrepute to the organisation.

Feria40

Zelda Creamy Gym wrote: »

i see the latest Portuguese data has 8 cases imported from Ireland solely, and 1 from Germany/Ireland. 88 from the UK.

Spain's 14 day rolling average has gone above 50 to 51.11 - it was mid-30s only 5 days ago. Balearics up to 12.96, Canaries up to 6.97.

PS: @Feria40 - positive antibody tests only account for between 1 & 5% of all total positive tests.

Look I suppose we all have our own narrative biases, me included. Two people can draw 2 different sets of conclusions from the same piece of information.

While things can deteriorate rapidly there are still a few things to keep in mind.

Take the figure of 51 per 100k, thats effectively 5 for every TEN THOUSAND people (sorry for caps).

This allied to the fact that the vast vast majority of cases are in the north/north east tells you that large sections of the country have the virus under control hopefully.

Remember that Spain is made up of a number of different regions, each setting their own rules. From what I can garner online, the impacted regions were well behind the curve when it came to mask wearing and contact tracing compared to say Andalusia etc.

It is noted that it was only in the 30's a few days back but given the cohort of people we are dealing with (typically younger and perhals less responsible) are likely to have had lots of contacts which leads to more testing and more positives.

Obviously you would want Spain to reach an inflection point sooner rather than later but only time will tell.

Spain recorded two thousand cases today, which is a lot in anyone's currency but just FIVE additional deaths.

Finally and I will keep saying it as I genuinely believe it:

At the moment there really is no end game insight when it comes to Covid. We know it can't be eliminated at an Irish level without completing sealing ourselves off for an indefinite period and causing economic destruction.

Simple steps prevent the spread of infection and these steps are entirely within our own remit.

Banning or shaming people for travelling is not one of these steps.

We cannot legislate for the few who chose to ignore these steps by making life more difficult than it already is for the many responsible people.

acequion

Thephantomsmask wrote: »

I'm not in a union but from what colleagues have told me, letters of complaint have been sent. Nobody is pleased about it though from general conversation, not necessarily from a wanting to go on holiday POV, more so due to an employer being able to sanction somebody for what they do on their personal time even if they are obeying the law and not causing any sort of disrepute to the organisation.

I'm happy to hear that workers are waking up to what is undoubtedly a big violation of rights. Unions are well paid to represent their members and no excuse for not challenging this.

Genuine question. How will the employer know that employees have gone abroad? Are they relying on honesty here? Or will there be officials at the airports taking details? God forbid but it wouldn't surprise me!

acequion

Zelda Creamy Gym wrote: »

i see the latest Portuguese data has 8 cases imported from Ireland solely, and 1 from Germany/Ireland. 88 from the UK.

Spain's 14 day rolling average has gone above 50 to 51.11 - it was mid-30s only 5 days ago. Balearics up to 12.96, Canaries up to 6.97.

PS: @Feria40 - positive antibody tests only account for between 1 & 5% of all total positive tests.

Where are you reading 8? I only see 3?

un5byh7sqpd2x0

acequion wrote: »

Where are you reading 8? I only see 3?

I obviously need to get my eyes tested :pac:

Dante7

Zelda Creamy Gym wrote: »

i see the latest Portuguese data has 8 cases imported from Ireland solely, and 1 from Germany/Ireland. 88 from the UK.

Spain's 14 day rolling average has gone above 50 to 51.11 - it was mid-30s only 5 days ago. Balearics up to 12.96, Canaries up to 6.97.

PS: @Feria40 - positive antibody tests only account for between 1 & 5% of all total positive tests .

You still telling lies I see, and hurting our brains with your clownshoes maths. You think that if 5% of a population has antibodies that implies only 5% of subsequent total positive tests are related to antibody testing! Jesus wept. Step away from the calculator. I'm not even going to bother correcting you. Life is too short and I have a pool to lounge by.

Meanwhile, in the world where people can do basic math:

"He also indicated that the epidemiological situation in the Canary Islands is "favourable", and detailed that in the last seven days the rate of contagion has stood at 2.6 cases per 100,000 inhabitants."


https://www.canarianweekly.com/posts/Torres-will-impose-masks-if-necessary

MickeyLeari

stargazer 68 wrote: »

Maybe Maybe not. In the US forum there are a few people with trips to the US in Sept and Oct hanging on to still travel. A couple to Florida

Not joking but not expecting anything until next year. Was planning a week in October and even had a hotel booked but decided to leave it.

MickeyLeari

Thephantomsmask wrote: »

The DPER circular issued on July 14th has not yet been rescinded as far as I am aware. Until that is updated the restrictions remain unfortunately, regardless of DFA advice.

https://www.gov.ie/en/news/f819e5-covid-19-information-for-civil-and-public-servants/

Heather Humphreys also stated public sector are not to be paid for non-essential travel on the 27th with no mention of exceptions to the green list countries.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40022792.html?type=amp&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&__twitter_impression=true

If there is no requirement to restrict movements from green list countries then how can they insist on people taking unpaid leave? They can’t.

Truthvader

Dante7 wrote: »

You still telling lies I see, and hurting our brains with your clownshoes maths. You think that if 5% of a population has antibodies that implies only 5% of subsequent total positive tests are related to antibody testing! Jesus wept. Step away from the calculator. I'm not even going to bother correcting you. Life is too short and I have a pool to lounge by.

Meanwhile, in the world where people can do basic math:

"He also indicated that the epidemiological situation in the Canary Islands is "favourable", and detailed that in the last seven days the rate of contagion has stood at 2.6 cases per 100,000 inhabitants."


https://www.canarianweekly.com/posts/Torres-will-impose-masks-if-necessary[/Q


So much anger. Why?

AGS issued instructions after the greenlist was published, no need for members to take unpaid if they return from one of those countries.
Presume all public service will be the same.

stargazer 68

bubblypop wrote: »

AGS issued instructions after the greenlist was published, no need for members to take unpaid if they return from one of those countries.
Presume all public service will be the same.

Not issued yet but hope it will be by Sept

Donald Trump

Assetbacked wrote: »

It's not a harmful virus for those of working age (under 65) who are healthy, disregarding those who let themselves be overweight. If you want to hide from the virus, go ahead, but the world isn't stopping for hypochondriacs and ignorants. This contextualise my actions.

Talking about having decency and balls in your posts is an hilariously pathetic attempt to shame and guilt me into my own data driven actions as you cannot refute the data. See attached and do yourself a favour and read it, rather than using your own ignorance to fuel your posts.

If everyone was selfish like yourself then we'd currently be in a situation worse than the likes of Florida.



It's very difficult to deal with such selfish and self centred people. It's like the anti-vaxxers who insist that people shouldn't get vaccines because the chances of dying from measles is very small. They don't realise that the reason it is low is because most people have it done.


You are attempting to slur conscientious people as hypochondriacs. Probably in a vain attempt to justify yourself and make yourself seem "tough" or something.

You see, people are not hypochondriacs, they are just responsible. Most people that I know are not worried about getting it themselves, but they do not want to potentially catch it and give it to others and so they take precautions and follow guidelines.


I have a severely immunocompromised friend whom I have not seen in over a year because they have been isolating for that long (yes - even before there was corona).



You wouldn't be so caviler with your bullshit "essential" jaunt to Germany if there was a high chance of you dying from corona. If you personally were high risk, you'd probably change your tune. Other people are high risk and you simply don't give a fuck that you could give it to them. Just be honest about it. You don't care that your work colleagues could have personal contacts that they cannot avoid and who are very vulnerable.




Instead of manning up and just admitting it, you want validation and are trying to satisfy your own particular confirmation bias by googling for articles or trying to present irrelevant links.


This pandemic started with a patient zero. It started in Ireland probably with a tiny handful of imported cases. And we are today where we are because of those tiny handful of people. But if you don't want to waste your 19.99 Euro flight sure there isn't much we can do. We can't know your financial situation and maybe you might not be able to afford to go next year if prices go up to 29.99

un5byh7sqpd2x0

Truthvader wrote: »

So much anger. Why?

I think he just needs to go and get laid, it's obviously been a while.

un5byh7sqpd2x0

Dante7 wrote: »

You still telling lies I see, and hurting our brains with your clownshoes maths. You think that if 5% of a population has antibodies that implies only 5% of subsequent total positive tests are related to antibody testing! Jesus wept.

I didn't say that.

Dante7 wrote: »

Step away from the calculator. I'm not even going to bother correcting you. Life is too short and I have a pool to lounge by.

Meanwhile, in the world where people can do basic math:

"He also indicated that the epidemiological situation in the Canary Islands is "favourable", and detailed that in the last seven days the rate of contagion has stood at 2.6 cases per 100,000 inhabitants."


https://www.canarianweekly.com/posts/Torres-will-impose-masks-if-necessary

Sigh. The maths refer to the Algarve in Portugal you gimp, it's pretty clear from my post. Have you spoken to your counsellor lately, I'd recommend it if you haven't?

14 days average is the number that matters, I use official Spanish numbers, not some numbers from a newspaper. The official 7 day number for the Canaries is 2.41 and 6.97 over 14 days as of yesterday so the 14 day average looks to be decreasing which is a good thing. No maths required, it's stated in black and white in the data I posted, on page 1. Or perhaps, you are so thick you didn't understand them?

stargazer 68

stargazer 68 wrote: »

Not issued yet but hope it will be by Sept

Issued last week

Assetbacked

Donald Trump wrote: »

If everyone was selfish like yourself then we'd currently be in a situation worse than the likes of Florida.

"Selfish like you", again, not using data. Then whataboutery with the Florida talk, absolutely no data to back that up.

Donald Trump wrote: »

It's very difficult to deal with such selfish and self centred people. It's like the anti-vaxxers who insist that people shouldn't get vaccines because the chances of dying from measles is very small. They don't realise that the reason it is low is because most people have it done.

Again, ignorance from the Donald. More whataboutery with the anti-vaxxer stuff.

Donald Trump wrote: »

You are attempting to slur conscientious people as hypochondriacs. Probably in a vain attempt to justify yourself and make yourself seem "tough" or something.

Stop hammering the keyboard with this one.

Donald Trump wrote: »

You see, people are not hypochondriacs, they are just responsible. Most people that I know are not worried about getting it themselves, but they do not want to potentially catch it and give it to others and so they take precautions and follow guidelines.

Good for them and you. Again though, not sure why you couldn't say that about any other infectious diseases.

Donald Trump wrote: »

I have a severely immunocompromised friend whom I have not seen in over a year because they have been isolating for that long (yes - even before there was corona).

Okay, so society should shut down for this person who is self-isolating anyway, irrespective of covid? What relevance is this other than an attempt to do some sort of mental gymnastics, using your immunocompromised friend to garner sympathy for your own ignorant position.

Donald Trump wrote: »

You wouldn't be so caviler with your bullshit "essential" jaunt to Germany if there was a high chance of you dying from corona. If you personally were high risk, you'd probably change your tune. Other people are high risk and you simply don't give a fuck that you could give it to them. Just be honest about it. You don't care that your work colleagues could have personal contacts that they cannot avoid and who are very vulnerable.

Obviously not, but there is a negligible chance of that happening. Again, whataboutery. Also, shaming and hysteria.

Donald Trump wrote: »

Instead of manning up and just admitting it, you want validation and are trying to satisfy your own particular confirmation bias by googling for articles or trying to present irrelevant links.

Manning up? Okay, not sure what that has to do with this. Also, what is irrelevant about our official data which shows how not harmful this virus is to the under 65s? Tell me how this is irrelevant? Maybe you should read the data your self and stop ignoring it as you may calm down and see sense. https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/casesinireland/epidemiologyofcovid-19inireland/COVID-19_Daily_epidemiology_report_(NPHET)_20200729%20-%20Website.pdf

Donald Trump wrote: »

This pandemic started with a patient zero. It started in Ireland probably with a tiny handful of imported cases. And we are today where we are because of those tiny handful of people.

The virus has been effectively extinguished in the community since early May. Data shows this. There is no sign of a second wave in Ireland. In addition, from what I can see, there is not even a sign of a second wave in general with it. New cases is not a second wave, a second wave is a health service being overwhelmed and deaths getting out of control. Italy has been open since April, was the epicentre in Europe and yet it appears the virus has burned out there. This is a trend, there are spikes in new cases as things reopen but not causes for concern unless deaths and hospitals start to be overrun.

Donald Trump wrote: »

But if you don't want to waste your 19.99 Euro flight sure there isn't much we can do. We can't know your financial situation and maybe you might not be able to afford to go next year if prices go up to 29.99

What the hell is that? My trip is with Lufthansa and for me is essential. There is no breach of guidance here.

My last point is a general point; you are terrified of contracting covid yourself, despite what you have said. You have consumed far too much media and online discussion on covid the last few months and now feel that to contract it would be terrifying, forgetting that it isn't very harmful. You can no longer see the wood from the trees and personal attacks in response to data posts shows how irrational you are acting in respect of covid. That is how I feel about you, I won't tell you that you are seflish, that you need to man up.

Donald Trump

Assetbacked wrote: »

"Selfish like you", again, not using data. Then whataboutery with the Florida talk, absolutely no data to back that up.



Again, ignorance from the Donald. More whataboutery with the anti-vaxxer stuff.



Stop hammering the keyboard with this one.



Good for them and you. Again though, not sure why you couldn't say that about any other infectious diseases.



Okay, so society should shut down for this person who is self-isolating anyway, irrespective of covid? What relevance is this other than an attempt to do some sort of mental gymnastics, using your immunocompromised friend to garner sympathy for your own ignorant position.



Obviously not, but there is a negligible chance of that happening. Again, whataboutery. Also, shaming and hysteria.




Manning up? Okay, not sure what that has to do with this. Also, what is irrelevant about our official data which shows how not harmful this virus is to the under 65s? Tell me how this is irrelevant? Maybe you should read the data your self and stop ignoring it as you may calm down and see sense. https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/casesinireland/epidemiologyofcovid-19inireland/COVID-19_Daily_epidemiology_report_(NPHET)_20200729%20-%20Website.pdf



The virus has been effectively extinguished in the community since early May. Data shows this. There is no sign of a second wave in Ireland. In addition, from what I can see, there is not even a sign of a second wave in general with it. New cases is not a second wave, a second wave is a health service being overwhelmed and deaths getting out of control. Italy has been open since April, was the epicentre in Europe and yet it appears the virus has burned out there. This is a trend, there are spikes in new cases as things reopen but not causes for concern unless deaths and hospitals start to be overrun.



What the hell is that? My trip is with Lufthansa and for me is essential. There is no breach of guidance here.

You'll try to convince yourself to justify your own decisions. I don't know why you are bothering - just own them. Just do as planned and just go wherever you want to go and lie to your colleagues upon your return as you've stated you will. It would be better for everyone if you just stopped trying to encourage others on here to follow in an attempt to obtain validation for your decisions. You do more damage by encouraging others than you will by going yourself.



People, in the main are obeying the guidelines. Which means that community transmission is suppressed. Like the anti-vaxxers pointing to low incidences of measles as a "reason" that nobody should vaccinate, you point to low community transmission as a reason people should not avoid travel.

Assetbacked

Donald Trump wrote: »

You'll try to convince yourself to justify your own decisions. I don't know why you are bothering - just own them. Just do as planned and just go wherever you want to go and lie to your colleagues upon your return as you've stated you will. It would be better for everyone if you just stopped trying to encourage others on here to follow in an attempt to obtain validation for your decisions. You do more damage by encouraging others than you will by going yourself.



People, in the main are obeying the guidelines. Which means that community transmission is suppressed. Like the anti-vaxxers pointing to low incidences of measles as a "reason" that nobody should vaccinate, you point to low community transmission as a reason people should not avoid travel.

Anti-relaxers are more on par with anti-vaxxers. Flat curvers are like flat Earthers.