Gardai find naked man whipped on crucifix in Dublin club, naked audience watch

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/woman-who-denies-running-club-where-naked-man-on-crucifix-was-whipped-to-appeal-decision-striking-out-bid-to-join-legal-proceedings-39366679.html

The Circuit Court has been asked "to direct that Hilda Conway forfeit her tenancy of a basement night club at 127 Lower Baggot Street, Dublin, which [it is] alleged had been used as a brothel and for staging Sadomasochistic practices.

Conway, of Claremont Road, Sandymount, Dublin, denies having been associated with the running of such activities in the club"

when Garda Inspector Martin Mooney had led a raid on the club he had noticed a man, tied to a large crucifix, who was having his naked bum whipped in front of customers oddly dressed with few or no clothes on and wearing masks and carrying whips.

Is it not time that we just allow these kinds of facilities to carry-on in trade, all above board, paying their taxes and giving enjoyment to the people? Honestly, what harm are they doing?

KiKi III

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/woman-who-denies-running-club-where-naked-man-on-crucifix-was-whipped-to-appeal-decision-striking-out-bid-to-join-legal-proceedings-39366679.html

The Circuit Court has been asked "to direct that Hilda Conway forfeit her tenancy of a basement night club at 127 Lower Baggot Street, Dublin, which he alleged had been used as a brothel and for staging Sadomasochistic practices.

Conway, of Claremont Road, Sandymount, Dublin, denies having been associated with the running of such activities in the club"



Is it not time that we just allow these kinds of facilities to carry-on in trade, all above board, paying their taxes and giving enjoyment to the people? Honestly, what harm are they doing?

I saw this headline earlier on and I wondered how long til I saw it here

KiKi III

In answer to your question, no, I don’t think brothels should be made legal. I used to think as you did; regulate it and tax it.

I thought it would be safer for women and lead to less sex trafficking. But looking at other countries where this has happened, there has been no corresponding reduction in sex trafficking to them.

St Patrick's Cathedral would be quite a venue.

Ray Donovan

For some reason this sprung straight to mind....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOKaqBfhcIE

Day Lewin

Really this court case was about a landlord misusing a tenancy.

but anyone who runs these kind of events should be doing so with great care.

They don't really raid every lap-dancing cub!

Auguste Comte

KiKi III wrote: »

In answer to your question, no, I don’t think brothels should be made legal. I used to think as you did; regulate it and tax it.

I thought it would be safer for women and lead to less sex trafficking. But looking at other countries where this has happened, there has been no corresponding reduction in sex trafficking to them.

Is it just brothels you think should be illegal or prostitution in general?

Get Real

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Is it not time that we just allow these kinds of facilities to carry-on in trade, all above board, paying their taxes and giving enjoyment to the people? Honestly, what harm are they doing?

I agree. But the article is mostly about the landlord not wanting that on his premises. And as a landlord, he has the choice not to.

Particularly if it's an unregulated area, issues with a liquor licence, lack of insurance cover. It all comes back on the landlord.

There should be regulations allowing it if people want it. But it's not the landlords fault. He wants them out. What if there was a fire in the place at 4am?

The Inspector probably couldn't give a fiddler's what went on in there, but had to have a look if it was reported. And what he saw is of relevance to the landlords application.

KiKi III

Auguste Comte wrote: »

Is it just brothels you think should be illegal or prostitution in general?

Prostitution in general. It is almost impossible to disentangle it from sex trafficking.

DrSerious3

KiKi III wrote: »

Prostitution in general. It is almost impossible to disentangle it from sex trafficking.

It's a bit like the war on drugs. We have tried making it illegal, doesn't work. And also, if you're pro-choice then who are you to tell people what to do with their bodies?

Auguste Comte

KiKi III wrote: »

Prostitution in general. It is almost impossible to disentangle it from sex trafficking.

Why shouldn't two people be able to agree to sex for money?

mouldybiscuits

KiKi III wrote: »

In answer to your question, no, I don’t think brothels should be made legal. I used to think as you did; regulate it and tax it.

I thought it would be safer for women and lead to less sex trafficking. But looking at other countries where this has happened, there has been no corresponding reduction in sex trafficking to them.

The thing about making prostitution legal is that then prostitutes would not be afraid to come and ask the authorities for help when they are robbed or worse. The push for legality is for the health and safety of sex workers. And since it happens regardless of whether it is legal or not there isn't really any positives in criminalizing it.

KiKi III

DrSerious3 wrote: »

It's a bit like the war on drugs. We have tried making it illegal, doesn't work. And also, if you're pro-choice then who are you to tell people what to do with their bodies?

The whole thing with sex trafficking is that the women aren’t choosing, dumb dumb.

KiKi III

KiKi III wrote: »

I thought it would be safer for women and lead to less sex trafficking. But looking at other countries where this has happened, there has been no corresponding reduction in sex trafficking to them.

Yes, I believe trafficking is still a big issue in Holland, it would be interesting to know whether or not trafficking increases when prostitution is legalised. If trafficking neither rises nor falls, there's probably still an argument in favour of legalisation, because at least you can trace these women (to a greater extent), and health services can visit them for STI checks and the like.

Get Real wrote: »

I agree. But the article is mostly about the landlord not wanting that on his premises. And as a landlord, he has the choice not to.

For sure, but any of us who ordinarily live in Dublin will know spots that are brothels. There is one very well known one in Temple Bar. I'm convinced the Guards know about these if an ordinary punter does, but perhaps they take the view that there's no point in sending these further underground. I'm not sure.

One eyed Jack

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Is it not time that we just allow these kinds of facilities to carry-on in trade, all above board, paying their taxes and giving enjoyment to the people? Honestly, what harm are they doing?

The problem was it wasn’t above board. I know the headline and even the article reads like a something from a Russ Meyer movie, but the seriousness of the issue is somewhat lost in the comedy aspect.

I was going to suggest it was rather tongue in cheek, but... actually, no, I’m not one bit ashamed of an awful pun :pac:

Day Lewin

This club event was not about prostitution.

It was a Hallowe'en party with some BDSM activities - which are not illegal.

Sex taking place on the premises by paying customers, that is.

Spanish Eyes

A bit sleazy, but each to their own. Are there laws against masochism in a private place, I doubt it. Long as someone is willing and the participants are not trafficked or injured/killed, well join the dots.

The issue is the LL from what I see. It is certainly not a one off, but is largely hidden.

Day Lewin

Here's a thread by an Irish sex worker who isn't the slightest bit trafficked, and makes a living

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057719737

jam_mac_jam

DrSerious3 wrote: »

It's a bit like the war on drugs. We have tried making it illegal, doesn't work. And also, if you're pro-choice then who are you to tell people what to do with their bodies?

With drugs you are only harming yourself not using someone as a slave. Which does happen.

Maybe it should be decriminalised, however I don't think it should be legalized like it is in Amsterdam or Germany.

DrSerious3

KiKi III wrote: »

The whole thing with sex trafficking is that the women aren’t choosing, dumb dumb.

Pro-choice, as long as you agree with the choice they are making.

Auguste Comte

KiKi III wrote: »

The whole thing with sex trafficking is that the women aren’t choosing, dumb dumb.

Sex trafficking is already illegal, why do you object two people concenting to do a sex for money agreement?

What is the difference between me paying someone to give me a massage, or a hand job?

Spanish Eyes

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

A bit sleazy, but each to their own. Are there laws against masochism in a private place,

I'm open to correction here but I think consent is a defence to assault, but there is a legal case which says it is not a defence to assault causing harm.

Day Lewin wrote: »

Here's a thread by an Irish sex worker who isn't the slightest bit trafficked, and makes a living

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057719737

I wonder sometimes when I see sex-workers speak about how much they enjoy their work, whether they're in the business themselves as proprietors or managers.

KiKi III

DrSerious3 wrote: »

Pro-choice, as long as you agree with the choice they are making.

Being trafficked into Ireland and forced into prostitution is not a choice.

KiKi III

Auguste Comte wrote: »

Sex trafficking is already illegal, why do you object two people concenting to do a sex for money agreement?

What is the difference between me paying someone to give me a massage, or a hand job?

If you don’t know the difference between a massage and a hand job, I’m not sure I can help you with that.

DrSerious3

KiKi III wrote: »

Being trafficked into Ireland and forced into prostitution is not a choice.

I will quote a poster above as they have said it well 'Sex trafficking is already illegal, why do you object two people concenting to do a sex for money agreement?

What is the difference between me paying someone to give me a massage, or a hand job?'

If someone obtains a license to engage in sex work and Gardai establish that they are not trafficked and they find it better to earn 100 an euro doing that rather than 12 an hour doing menial or physical work, why would you think you have the right to stop them? Very middle class thinking, especially if you consider yourself pro-choice.

bazza1

Hey Hilda....any chance of a refund on me membership?

Auguste Comte

KiKi III wrote: »

If you don’t know the difference between a massage and a hand job, I’m not sure I can help you with that.

That's a very disingenuous answer. I know the difference the question was what's the difference in paying for either of them.

KiKi III

DrSerious3 wrote: »

I will quote a poster above as they have said it well 'Sex trafficking is already illegal, why do you object two people concenting to do a sex for money agreement?

What is the difference between me paying someone to give me a massage, or a hand job?'

If someone obtains a license to engage in sex work and Gardai establish that they are not trafficked and they find it better to earn 100 an euro doing that rather than 12 an hour doing menial or physical work, why would you think you have the right to stop them? Very middle class thinking, especially if you consider yourself pro-choice.

You’re kind of obsessed with my opinion on abortion, an entirely different conversation, and it comes across a bit weird buddy.

I’m theoretically fine with an adult, consenting woman choosing prostitution. However, I’ve read and heard many harrowing accounts from women who were trafficked into Ireland, women in Direct Provision who felt forced into it by economic need to buy things for their kids, and addicts who were taken advantage of for their next hit.

Most prostitutes seem to be women in very vulnerable positions and I think as a society we should find ways to support them without selling their bodies, which can be corrosive to their mental and physical health.

Dante7

KiKi III wrote: »

In answer to your question, no, I don’t think brothels should be made legal. I used to think as you did; regulate it and tax it.

I thought it would be safer for women and lead to less sex trafficking. But looking at other countries where this has happened, there has been no corresponding reduction in sex trafficking to them.

I was the same. I used to be of the belief that whatever consenting adults did in privacy was their own business, and if someone wanted to sell their body for sex, then as long as it was voluntary, it was fine. But then someone said to me that in nearly every case of prostitution there has been an element of coercion along the way and that got me thinking differently about it. Now I don't believe that anyone has the right to pay someone else to use their body for sex.

suicide_circus

It's got to a stage in this country where a man can't even mount a crucifix to have his arse leathered in front of a roomful of his closest friends

Auguste Comte

Auguste Comte wrote: »

Why shouldn't two people be able to agree to sex for money?

An awful lot of the people doing it are seriously vulnerable. Of course certain types of people enjoy their pleasures even more if is subjects others to humiliation. That's the basis of a lot, but most certainly not all, of it.