Petrol v diesel cars

bazz26

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

I know a girl with a petrol Kona, she said last week she took 3 grown men in rear no problem, and one up front.

Is her name Snow White?

Belfast

colm_mcm wrote: »

Oh christ, not John Cadogan again.

This any better?
Some times a failure of a DPF can bea systom of the problem not the problem.
Leaking air hoses a can cause the problem and result in replacemnet of DPF. This does not solve the problem only they sympton and the DPF can faile again for the same reason.

BorneTobyWilde

punisher5112 wrote: »

That's most likely because she was bet up against the steering wheel....

Whatever turns her on I guess lol

Idbatterim

bazz26 wrote: »

But electricity is nearly free.

Electricity as a fuel is virtually free compared to petrol or diesel... workplace charging often free. Put in a night meter at home and its what? 9c kwh?

Idbatterim

maherhonda wrote: »

I buy a car with a fresh NCT for 1500 or I buy an electric car for 40000.

Wonder how long it would take me to see the financial benefits when i drive 16KM a day.

Even when I have a 1.6TDI doing 1200KM's a week It would probably take 8 years or more before I see any financial benefits.

Listen I tell most people here go buy a bangernomic. If people are buying new though, I see no point in diesel really... moderate to high ish gmileage electric in most cases , diesel maybe only in colossal mileage, otherwise just get a petrol or hybrid...

The op says he is doing 510km a week. Dont talk.to me about total ownership cost with cars! If he is going new , I would consider electric, he brought up new.... not me...

bazz26

Idbatterim wrote: »

Electricity is virtually free compared to petrol or diesel...

Your still totally missing the point. Your paying nearly twice the price for the car to have virtually free electricity. How many miles in petrol would your average motorist get for nearly 20k price difference? Total cost needs to be considered, not just the front page headline story.

Idbatterim

bazz26 wrote: »

Your still totally missing the point. Your paying nearly twice the price for the car to have virtually free electricity. How many miles in petrol would your average motorist get for nearly 20k price difference?

Well this is the question. The op mentioned x 40, how much u
Does that cost for petrol and diesel ? Then what are the suitable ev budgets? A gap of twenty us obviously obscene, I'm not suggesting electric at all costs... but its worth a premium just not to be driving a diesel alone in my opinion....

Yes bazz, hence I mentioned total costs In my post above...

An xc 40 is from 40360 according to Volvo website , full electric is 15k more. Cant you get a Tesla 3 for 40k or thereabouts?

bazz26

The example used here was the Hyundai Kona, the EV version is 40k including grants, rebates, etc. The petrol version is something like 21k. Average Joe buying the petrol version isn't going to stump up 40k just to get cheap electricity. Their average mileage would take years to make up that difference in fuel.

mp3guy

bazz26 wrote: »

The example used here was the Hyundai Kona, the EV version is 40k including grants, rebates, etc. The petrol version is something like 21k. Average Joe buying the petrol version isn't going to stump up 40k just to get cheap electricity. Their average mileage would take years to make up that difference in fuel.

It's definitely not the only motivator, otherwise no EVs would sell ever. But if OP is cost motivated only then EV is an awkward fit.

Idbatterim

bazz26 wrote: »

The example used here was the Hyundai Kona, the EV version is 40k including grants, rebates, etc. The petrol version is something like 21k. Average Joe buying the petrol version isn't going to stump up 40k just to get cheap electricity. Their average mileage would take years to make up that difference in fuel.

The op said xc 40, that's 40k, not a chance I'd be spending that on buying a petrol or diesel....

Yes if your budget is 20k or thereabouts, you're not going to throw on 15 k to go electric. Bit if your budget is already electric price range , going petrol or diesel is madness in my opinion... throwing on 60 euro a week on fuel , more servicing and way more to go wrong....

colm_mcm

Idbatterim wrote: »

The op said xc 40, that's 40k, not a chance I'd be spending that on buying a petrol or diesel....

Yes if your budget is 20k or thereabouts, you're not going to throw on 15 k to go electric. Bit if your budget is already electric price range , going petrol or diesel is madness in my opinion... throwing on 60 euro a week on fuel , more servicing and way more to go wrong....

At least the XC40 is a nice car, the petrol or electric Kona is still a 20k car in terms of fit and finish and market segment.
Not arguing with you in terms of the benefits if electric, but the costs per kWh of producing a battery have dropped dramatically in the past 5 years, but some manufacturers are limiting demand deliberately by charging crazy prices, Kona is a case in point.

mp3guy

Idbatterim wrote: »

The op said xc 40, that's 40k, not a chance I'd be spending that on buying a petrol or diesel....

Yes if your budget is 20k or thereabouts, you're not going to throw on 15 k to go electric. Bit if your budget is already electric price range , going petrol or diesel is madness in my opinion... throwing on 60 euro a week on fuel , more servicing and way more to go wrong....

When you spec a Tesla they go through the trouble of providing an estimate of this savings calculation for you on the webpage.

mp3guy

colm_mcm wrote: »

At least the XC40 is a nice car, the petrol or electric Kona is still a 20k car in terms of fit and finish and market segment,

Whatever about the finish of the Kona, the electric range/performance is not that of a 20k car.

RandomViewer

Idbatterim wrote: »

Electricity as a fuel is virtually free compared to petrol or diesel... workplace charging often free. Put in a night meter at home and its what? 9c kwh?

You have to factor in Vat and ground rent and PSO levies which puts it closer to 25cent ,so
7.4 kw x 8 hours, assuming electric car owners charge 5 days a week I'm not seeing any saving over diesel.

Idbatterim

Look at the likes of this, stunning cars ... what would they he here ? 50k ?

https://www.polestar.com/uk/polestar-2/

https://www.irishnews.com/lifestyle/motorsdrive/2020/06/07/news/safety-first-as-polestar-2-edges-closer-to-euro-launch-1923475/

290 mile range, over 400bhp , 0-100 in 4.7 they represent excellent value for money if you plan Is to blow 40-50k on some petrol or diesel with the acceleration of a push bike in comparison

RandomViewer

mp3guy wrote: »

Whatever about the finish of the Kona, the electric range/performance is not that of a 20k car.

It's a 20 k car with a bad grill, electric motor isn't worth a premium over Petrol. If you want electric cars to sell they have to be in the same price range, no ones going to step down from a n A4 to an i20 with big wheels

RandomViewer

Idbatterim wrote: »

Look at the likes of this, stunning cars ... what would they he here ? 50k ?

https://www.polestar.com/uk/polestar-2/

Closer to 75k for what looks like a Peugeot 508

colm_mcm

mp3guy wrote: »

Whatever about the finish of the Kona, the electric range/performance is not that of a 20k car.

Yes but you’re paying an extra €25k for that. State (I.e taxpayers) covering €5k of that and also not charging VRT - as well as employees (quite legally) dodging BIK.

mp3guy

RandomViewer wrote: »

You have to factor in Vat and ground rent and PSO levies which puts it closer to 25cent ,so
7.4 kw x 8 hours, assuming electric car owners charge 5 days a week I'm not seeing any saving over diesel.

Not true, just work it out, even with worst case rural rates including VAT. Day/night standing charge is only about €60 extra per year, the PSO is unchanged. You can easily get an 8.5c night rate from most providers. Charging 7.4 kw every night for 8 hours is a lot of energy, call it 50kw a day, which in an efficient EV is probably around 300km. So for a year of that five days a week it's 52x5x300 = 78,000km. Efficient diesel you'll probably get 5l/100km, so 3,900 litres of diesel is around €4,500 at €1.15/l.

The electricity would cost you 0.085*7.4*8*52*5 = €1,300, plus €60 increase standing charge, that's €1,360. Less than a third of the price. Plus you'll probably make savings running other stuff on night rate too (dishwashers, washing machine), > €3,000 a year saved. Drive less? Save less, but still save.

RandomViewer wrote: »

It's a 20 k car with a bad grill, electric motor isn't worth a premium over Petrol. If you want electric cars to sell they have to be in the same price range, no ones going to step down from a n A4 to an i20 with big wheels

I love the grill. Don't want an A4 personally.

RandomViewer

mp3guy wrote: »

Not true, just work it out, even with worst case rural rates including VAT. Day/night standing charge is only about €60 extra per year, the PSO is unchanged. You can easily get an 8.5c night rate from most providers. Charging 7.4 kw every night for 8 hours is a lot of energy, call it 50kw a day, which in an efficient EV is probably around 300km. So for a year of that five days a week it's 52x5x300 = 78,000km. Efficient diesel you'll probably get 5l/100km, so 3,900 litres of diesel is around €4,500 at €1.15/l.

The electricity would cost you 0.085*7.4*8*52*5 = €1,300, plus €60 increase standing charge, that's €1,360. Less than a third of the price. Plus you'll probably make savings running other stuff on night rate too (dishwashers, washing machine), > €3,000 a year saved. Drive less? Save less, but still save.



I love the grill. Don't want an A4 personally.

You are trying to sell asupermini at a large saloon price, I used the A4 as it costs roughly the same, could have used a Tiguan or a crew cab Hilux to put things in perspective.

mp3guy

RandomViewer wrote: »

You are trying to sell asupermini at a large saloon price, I used the A4 as it costs roughly the same, could have used a Tiguan or a crew cab Hilux to put things in perspective.

I'm not selling anything, just pointing out people have different preferences for cars and value various attributes differently.

colm_mcm

You would have loved this €30k car from back in the day

mp3guy

colm_mcm wrote: »

You would have loved this €30k car from back in the day

Absolute perfection

ronivek

colm_mcm wrote: »

You would have loved this €30k car from back in the day

I think my push mower has bigger wheels than that yoke.

Philb76

As far as the electric kona is concerned i know someone who has a brand new one says the claimed range is absolute bull**** and regrets getting one and is looking to get rid in the very near future

Shefwedfan

Philb76 wrote: »

As far as the electric kona is concerned i know someone who has a brand new one says the claimed range is absolute bull**** and regrets getting one and is looking to get rid in the very near future

the internet is full of website and reviews which tell the real range. If your going out to pay 40k and you don’t do research then you are an idiot

Nothing wrong with the car....

Shefwedfan

RandomViewer wrote: »

You have to factor in Vat and ground rent and PSO levies which puts it closer to 25cent ,so
7.4 kw x 8 hours, assuming electric car owners charge 5 days a week I'm not seeing any saving over diesel.

Where are you buying your electricity from? If your paying that your electricity company is absolutely fleecing you

Shefwedfan

Electric cars = 0% BIK
Happy days.....

mp3guy

Philb76 wrote: »

As far as the electric kona is concerned i know someone who has a brand new one says the claimed range is absolute bull**** and regrets getting one and is looking to get rid in the very near future

Sounds like manufacturer MPG for ICE cars tbh. Search online for any EV and you'll find some people getting worse than manufacturer range and others getting better. Nothing new or unique to any car really.

Philb76

mp3guy wrote: »

Sounds like manufacturer MPG for ICE cars tbh. Search online for any EV and you'll find some people getting worse than manufacturer range and others getting better. Nothing new or unique to any car really.

He knew the claimed range would be off by a bit just not that much getting around 190km driving it very easy

Philb76

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Electric cars = 0% BIK
Happy days.....

Well that's the end of that argument then

mp3guy

Philb76 wrote: »

He knew the claimed range would be off by a bit just not that much getting around 190km driving it very easy

I'd love to know more details. Sounds like a 39kW model. Surely he can go to the dealer? Winter test here https://youtu.be/MN2cjKhkCqg, 90kmh 330km, 120kmh 250km at less than -10c.

190 is less than half the quoted range, and if that's in Ireland's climate the last few months, not overloading/towing/roof rack there's something fishy.

Philb76

mp3guy wrote: »

I'd love to know more details. Sounds like a 39kW model. Surely he can go to the dealer? Winter test here https://youtu.be/MN2cjKhkCqg, 90kmh 330km, 120kmh 250km at less than -10c.

190 is less than half the quoted range, and if that's in Ireland's climate the last few months, not overloading/towing/roof rack there's something fishy.

That's wot he's saying to be honest don't know which variant he has maybe someone on the forum has one who might be able to give their real world experience

Shefwedfan

Philb76 wrote: »

That's wot he's saying to be honest don't know which variant he has maybe someone on the forum has one who might be able to give their real world experience

Well he is talking s**t.

I have a 36kWh battery and I can get 190km no problem in it. He has nearly double the battery. Is he charging the car? or leaving half the battery empty

I was right the first time, he is an idiot

Shefwedfan

mp3guy wrote: »

I'd love to know more details. Sounds like a 39kW model. Surely he can go to the dealer? Winter test here https://youtu.be/MN2cjKhkCqg, 90kmh 330km, 120kmh 250km at less than -10c.

190 is less than half the quoted range, and if that's in Ireland's climate the last few months, not overloading/towing/roof rack there's something fishy.

Did they bring out the 39kWh Kona yet? I thought they only brought out the eNiro in 39kWh battery?


I think a few porkies are been told somewhere along the line

Captcha

walshtipp wrote: »

In my opinion diesel is still the best high mileage option.
As for hybrids, their efficiency depends on type of driving. They are brilliant around town but on the motorway they are not all that efficient.

A3 Audi 1.4 TFSI is quick with 150bhp and I get 60+ mpg on motorway, maybe 25 - 40 around the city... not sure if its a hybrid though, point is petrol can be very good on motorway

Shefwedfan

Captcha wrote: »

A3 Audi 1.4 TFSI is quick with 150bhp and I get 60+ mpg on motorway, maybe 25 - 40 around the city... not sure if its a hybrid though, point is petrol can be very good on motorway

That's a straight petrol, they do have a PHEV version of the A3 but weight is the issue, carrying around a large battery plus additional engine means you need to buy for your requirements. If your doing loads of motorway driving every day is doesn't make sense to be dragging around a petrol engine, fuel plus an electric motor plus battery.

Philb76

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Well he is talking s**t.

I have a 36kWh battery and I can get 190km no problem in it. He has nearly double the battery. Is he charging the car? or leaving half the battery empty

I was right the first time, he is an idiot

Yeah your right hes a lying idiot who doesn't know how to charge his own electric car

RandomViewer

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Where are you buying your electricity from? If your paying that your electricity company is absolutely fleecing you

I've been on to them, ordinary sized house, all appliances less than 3 years old, LED bulbs in all the light sockets, rarely use the oil heating, back boiler in stove, Bill averages 275-300 every 2 months.

Mad_maxx

RandomViewer wrote: »

It's a 20 k car with a bad grill, electric motor isn't worth a premium over Petrol. If you want electric cars to sell they have to be in the same price range, no ones going to step down from a n A4 to an i20 with big wheels

can't think of any car that size for 20 k bar a dacia duster?

Mad_maxx

bazz26 wrote: »

The example used here was the Hyundai Kona, the EV version is 40k including grants, rebates, etc. The petrol version is something like 21k. Average Joe buying the petrol version isn't going to stump up 40k just to get cheap electricity. Their average mileage would take years to make up that difference in fuel.

The electric Kona is a totally different driving experience to a petrol

bazz26

Mad_maxx wrote: »

The electric Kona is a totally different driving experience to a petrol

Are you actually saying the "driving experience" justifies it costing twice the price of the petrol one?

Mad_maxx

bazz26 wrote: »

Are you actually saying the "driving experience" justifies it costing twice the price of the petrol one?

It's an electric vehicle, altogether different technology, it's hard to know exactly how to value a car but this common perception that electric cars are very expensive is mostly flawed in terms of comparison with conventional I.C.E cars

mp3guy

bazz26 wrote: »

Are you actually saying the "driving experience" justifies it costing twice the price of the petrol one?

Isn't that most expensive cars though?

colm_mcm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

can't think of any car that size for 20 k bar a dacia duster?

Kia Stonic, Citroen C3 Aircross, Suzuki Vitara, Skoda Kamiq, Fiat 500x, Nissan Juke, Renault Captur are all the same price or less than a petrol Kona.

bazz26

Mad_maxx wrote: »

It's an electric vehicle, altogether different technology, it's hard to know exactly how to value a car but this common perception that electric cars are very expensive is mostly flawed in terms of comparison with conventional I.C.E cars

It's still a Kona ffs with the same fisher price made interior as the 20k version, and there is nothing flawed about thinking it's expensive because it is. It costs 40k after grants compared to 21k for the petrol mode. If you think that is vindicated just because it's electric then you seem to have more money than sense.

mp3guy wrote: »

Isn't that most expensive cars though?

It seems some EV fanboys are so obsessed they cannot seem to see how daft it is for an EV Kona to cost almost twice the price of a petrol Kona.

Shefwedfan

RandomViewer wrote: »

I've been on to them, ordinary sized house, all appliances less than 3 years old, LED bulbs in all the light sockets, rarely use the oil heating, back boiler in stove, Bill averages 275-300 every 2 months.

One big switch have a good offer at the moment for electricity: Jakub Szwarc, https://onebigswitch.ie/offers/energy/?utm_campaign=energy_multi&utm_content=200713&utm_medium=email&utm_source=email_obsie&utm_term=cta1


41% off, might be worth checking out if out of contract


Im paying 180 per month but I have electric car and PHEV going on that system. You should be way cheaper

Shefwedfan

bazz26 wrote: »

Are you actually saying the "driving experience" justifies it costing twice the price of the petrol one?

The up front cost of electric cars make sense for some people. Not everyone.

bazz26

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The up front cost of electric cars make sense for some people. Not everyone.

Well god help them if they are spending that much time driving in an Kona EV to warrant it saving them 20k. I'd say that is the exception rather than the rule with your typical private owner who isn't driving it for the tax breaks. They would probably only be doing average mileage so hard to see where those people would actually save that 20k difference over the petrol unless they keep the car for many years at which stage the range on the Kona EV will probably be obsolete compared to newer rival EVs.

I can see some similarities to 2008/2009 with people going out spending thousands on new cars to save a few hundred on motor tax.

mp3guy

bazz26 wrote: »

Well god help them if they are spending that much time driving in an Kona EV to warrant it saving them 20k. I'd say that is the exception rather than the rule with your typical private owner who isn't driving it for the tax breaks. They would probably only be doing average mileage so hard to see where those people would actually save that 20k difference over the petrol unless they keep the car for many years at which stage the range on the Kona EV will probably be obsolete compared to newer rival EVs.

I can see some similarities to 2008/2009 with people going out spending thousands on new cars to save a few hundred on motor tax.

I heard some people, maniacs if you ask me, actually buy EVs for environmental reasons.