Barry Cowen sacked

McMurphy

eagle eye wrote: »

It's relevant because this is a what brought the whole Cowen thing up. He was slightly over the limit and it's caused a furore. Buckley was over three times the limit which is far more serious and irresponsible. Do you not get that. If we are removing Cowen from his ministerial post them surely Buckley should be kicked out of his party.
Likewise Harris was horrendous as Minister for Health, he showed he isn't capable of doing the job and should not be a minister again. What he did as minister for Health was huge damage so if we are removing Cowen from office we should remove him from office.
I'll remind people again, this is not me defending Barry Cowen, it's about what's going on. I just want consistency and fairness.

You might want to reread my post again.

McMurphy wrote: »

What is it you want people to say about Buckley?

He wasn't ever a minister who refused to answer questions relating to his past transgressions with the law, and has made accusations against the guards making having details on their system that he says are false. Barry was.

Buckley's still a TD.

So is Barry Cowen.

Can you be a bit more clear about what it is you want people to say about Buckley, and why you feel it's relevant to the Cowen affair?

Ok so let's recap for the bazillionth time.

Cowen and Buckley are both still TDs, but because Barry put his party leader in an impossible position by accusing the gards of compiling a false report, and refusing to answer questions, and therefore lost his ministerial position (but is still a TD) Pat Buckley should be thrown out of the party altogether?


Would you listen to yourself.

Traumadoc

KaneToad wrote: »

What we know:

1) Cowen did not have a full licence despite driving for several decades

2) Cowen drove unaccompanied while not on a full licence

3) Cowen drove on motorways despite not having a full licence

4) Cowen was caught speeding on a provisional licence

5) Cowen was caught drink driving in 2016

6) Cowen did not tell his boss about his drink driving in 2016

7) When Cowen apologised in 2020, after someone leaked story, he didn't mention that he was on a provisional licence at the time

8) When he clarified the provisional licence, after that info was leaked, he didn't mention the turning away from the checkpoint

9) When he clarified the turning away from the checkpoint leak he insisted the guarda record was wrong

10) The guarda investigation has stated that the guarda record is right

11) Michael Martin had had enough about the truth being released in stages

12) Someone was out to 'get' Cowen

13) Cowen was very easy to 'get' due to his behaviour

Overall, I couldn't see any other outcome other than Cowen losing his ministerial post. It was far from a simple lapse and being just slightly over the limit..

What was the alcohol reading, - very coy about that, if it was just above the legal limit for a full licence it would have been a year off the road as he was on a provisional?

eagle eye

Traumadoc wrote:

What was the alcohol reading, - very coy about that, if it was just above the legal limit for a full licence it would have been a year off the road as he was on a provisional?

The alcohol level was below the level required for a court case, it's an automatic three month ban.

Muahahaha

Well its lucky Martin sacked him on Tuesday because if he hadnt that story about the Garda record being true after Barry said it wasnt would have been the final torpedo.

Great journalism by the crime and security correspondent John Moooney of the Sunday Times, he can add this one to the two Garda commissioners and the two Ministers for Justice he held to account.

Former Former

Great journalism by the ST alright.

Today's confirmation of exactly what the Garda record said was pretty much what I expected, in that it confirmed everything that we had been told but Cowen had worded things sufficiently to be able to say that he didn't actually lie.

Anyone who actually votes for this man at the next election should be barred from all future elections as they can't be trusted with something as important as democracy.

The worst thing about him is that he's continuing to bang the drum despite the damage it is doing to his party. Even the FFers who want MM gone should be telling him to STFU. But he's only out for himself at this point.

Coillte_Bhoy

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

I’d have thought we all know better than to believe polls. I’m a floating voter so they certainly don’t apply to me.

Why? They are usually very accurate, in Ireland anyway

jimmycrackcorm

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

No shortage of cash being splashed by the current crowd on Garda drivers etc. Well able to spend money on themselves fffg are. All the knocking of Sinn Fein only makes people more interested in voting for them imo, so you’re kind of shooting yourselves in the foot.

Don't you think it's a ridiculous argument to suggest that all our economic policies could be fixed by not having a couple of Garda drivers for ministers?

FGs rise in the polls is not just down to covid, but in these times of economic uncertainty, people are turning away from wishy washy populist policies in favour of having a government with a jobs based record .

Snow Garden

KaneToad wrote: »

What we know:

1) Cowen did not have a full licence despite driving for several decades

2) Cowen drove unaccompanied while not on a full licence

3) Cowen drove on motorways despite not having a full licence

4) Cowen was caught speeding on a provisional licence

5) Cowen was caught drink driving in 2016

6) Cowen did not tell his boss about his drink driving in 2016

7) When Cowen apologised in 2020, after someone leaked story, he didn't mention that he was on a provisional licence at the time

8) When he clarified the provisional licence, after that info was leaked, he didn't mention the turning away from the checkpoint

9) When he clarified the turning away from the checkpoint leak he insisted the guarda record was wrong

10) The guarda investigation has stated that the guarda record is right

11) Michael Martin had had enough about the truth being released in stages

12) Someone was out to 'get' Cowen

13) Cowen was very easy to 'get' due to his behaviour

Overall, I couldn't see any other outcome other than Cowen losing his ministerial post. It was far from a simple lapse and being just slightly over the limit..

Cowen is proving himself to be a complete idiot with all this talk about travelling nationwide to kickstart a revolution within FF to remove MM. Stay quiet and lick your wounds in the corner you muppet. Let the largely untold story die down before you get all brave. You are doing yourself and your failed party a huge amount of damage. He must be absolutely clueless or has awful advisers. Great to see all the same

Snow Garden

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Don't you think it's a ridiculous argument to suggest that all our economic policies could be fixed by not having a couple of Garda drivers for ministers?

FGs rise in the polls is not just down to covid, but in these times of economic uncertainty, people are turning away from wishy washy populist policies in favour of having a government with a jobs based record .

FG will suffer too the longer this FFGG government goes on. It's inevitable. The economic uncertainty is only just beginning. It was be severe and they will need to take tough decisions. SF will keep FFG under pressure my tabling loads of money tree inspired giveaways that the government have to vote down. It will be fascinating. That said, FF took some really tough ministries so they may bear the brunt of the fallout.

jimmycrackcorm

Former Former wrote: »

Anyone who actually votes for this man at the next election should be barred from all future elections as they can't be trusted with something as important as democracy.

I think you'd better sit down so we can tell you about Michael Lowry topping the polls every election. Mick Wallace's vat evasion gets him rewarded with a plum EU job.

Never mind people who vote for Danny Healy Rae and his climate control solution of God is in charge of the weather

Former Former

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I think you'd better sir down so we can tell you about Michael Lowry topping the polls every election. Mick Wallace's vat evasion gets him rewarded with a plum EU job.

Never mind people who vote for Danny Healy Rae and his climate control solution of God is in charge of the weather

Oh absolutely, that's why it depresses me so much

McMurphy

FFers on this thread backing Cowen, and implying it was social media that got him sacked might want to have a read of this.

It would seem that Michaél Martin didn't believe his excuses about not purposely trying to evade the checkpoint.

The taoiseach indicated in the Dail on Wednesday he had not been convinced by Cowen’s denials that he had tried to evade the garda checkpoint. “I am not standing by any assertion by Deputy Cowen in respect of the garda statement,” he told Mary Lou McDonald, the Sinn Fein leader.

So the Taoiseach didn't believe his own ministers account of what happened on the night, no point trying to blame twitter/Facebook/boards or Pat Buckley/Michael Hegarty.

At the end of the day, if you're a FFer and you support Cowen, or feel like he was sacked unfairly, it's Michaél Martin's arse you should be after, that and the Gardai who obviously stitched up poor Barry with their record on him, which in case anyone hadn't read about what it contains, see below.

The garda record, which Cowen obtained by request on July 7, stated the politician’s car had “turned away” as it neared the checkpoint.

In fact Cowen, who was driving on a learner licence and was accompanied by a passenger he has not identified, drove into a small residential cul-de-sac just before the checkpoint. He was followed by a garda who gave him a breath test and arrested him there.

Reads like Barry purposely tried to avoid the checkpoint to me, and for by that, after failing the breathalyser test, we can assume why he tried to avoid it.

All this "marginally over the limit" nonsense is just that, nonsense. Cowen knew he had drink in him, certainly enough that he took the risk of avoiding a checkpoint, and it was marginally over the limit when he was stopped, so what would the reading have been if he had of been breathalysed upon getting behind the wheel and turning the key in the ignition?

Once again, for the FFers, did I mention it's the Taoiseach and the party leader that sacked Cowen, not anyone else?

PixieValentine

BonnieSituation wrote: »

It'll be over by the weekend. So I hear.

WHICH weekend, though :P :D

BonnieSituation

PixieValentine wrote: »

WHICH weekend, though :P :D

He'll be right eventually and we'll all be told then.

Muahahaha

Former Former wrote: »

Great journalism by the ST alright.

Today's confirmation of exactly what the Garda record said was pretty much what I expected, in that it confirmed everything that we had been told but Cowen had worded things sufficiently to be able to say that he didn't actually lie.

Anyone who actually votes for this man at the next election should be barred from all future elections as they can't be trusted with something as important as democracy.

The worst thing about him is that he's continuing to bang the drum despite the damage it is doing to his party. Even the FFers who want MM gone should be telling him to STFU. But he's only out for himself at this point.

Plus the absolute brazen neck of him with that statement he came out with last Sunday. According to Barry-
"I did not evade the Gardai"
"The Garda record is incorrect and I want it corrected"

So he told two completely brazen lies last Sunday in an effort to save his neck. He knew well that he went into a cul de sac yet he was accusing the Gardai of making a false record of it. That could have put their careers on the line but Barry didnt care less about bring heat onto the Gardai, his priority was lying his ass off with weasel words to try to wriggle out of the entire mess, a mess that was completely of his own making.

He doesnt take responsibility for his actions and instead tells lies that put suspicion on the Gardai. Its the absolute lowest of the low from Cowen and once again we are seeing that Fianna Fail havent changed one single bit.

Snow Garden

Muahahaha wrote: »

Plus the absolute brazen neck of him with that statement he came out with last Sunday. According to Barry-
"I did not evade the Gardai"
"The Garda record is incorrect and I want it corrected"

So he told two completely brazen lies last Sunday in an effort to save his neck. He knew well that he went into a cul de sac yet he was accusing the Gardai of making a false record of it. That could have put their careers on the line but Barry didnt care less about bring heat onto the Gardai, his priority was lying his ass off with weasel words to try to wriggle out of the entire mess, a mess that was completely of his own making.

He doesnt take responsibility for his actions and instead tells lies that put suspicion on the Gardai. Its the absolute lowest of the low from Cowen and once again we are seeing that Fianna Fail havent changed one single bit.

Well said. Weasel is the perfect word for it.

PixieValentine

BonnieSituation wrote: »

He'll be right eventually and we'll all be told then.

Barry certainly seems to be doing everything in his power to ensure the story keeps going a few weekends yet. MM's PR person/people must be pulling their hair out.

WishUWereHere

LOL, seems Cowen and Bailey although from different parties are tarred with the same brush.

jimmycrackcorm

WishUWereHere wrote: »

LOL, seems Cowen and Bailey although from different parties are tarred with the same brush.

Bailey didn't do anything illegal. In fact it should have been left to the courts to make a decision about the rights and wrongs of her case.

Im not convinced that she have lost her case either. That the swing was removed after seems to suggest that it's not a great idea to mix with people drinking alcohol.
But there seemed to be more SJW outrage with Bailey, which I find strange as I think that should be directed at actual illegal acts.

ohnonotgmail

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Bailey didn't do anything illegal. In fact it should have been left to the courts to make a decision about the rights and wrongs of her case.

Im not convinced that she have lost her case either. That the swing was removed after seems to suggest that it's not a great idea to mix with people drinking alcohol.
But there seemed to be more SJW outrage with Bailey, which I find strange as I think that should be directed at actual illegal acts.

falsifying an injury for monetary gain is an illegal act.

But, Cowen was convicted of drink driving & received his penalty.
He wasn't convicted of evading a checkpoint, in fact, he wasn't even charged with it.
At least one guard is going to lose their job over all this!

ohnonotgmail

bubblypop wrote: »

But, Cowen was convicted of drink driving & received his penalty.
He wasn't convicted of evading a checkpoint, in fact, he wasn't even charged with it.
At least one guard is going to lose their job over all this!

of course he wasnt convicted of evading a checkpoint. it isn't an offence to turn away from a checkpoint. there was nothing to convict him for.

Snow Garden

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Bailey didn't do anything illegal. In fact it should have been left to the courts to make a decision about the rights and wrongs of her case.

Im not convinced that she have lost her case either. That the swing was removed after seems to suggest that it's not a great idea to mix with people drinking alcohol.
But there seemed to be more SJW outrage with Bailey, which I find strange as I think that should be directed at actual illegal acts.

You are talking through your hoop. Part of me thinks you know that already.

I know one thing for sure - Cowen wont risk a Sean Sean Sean interview

McMurphy

bubblypop wrote: »

But, Cowen was convicted of drink driving & received his penalty.
He wasn't convicted of evading a checkpoint, in fact, he wasn't even charged with it.

C'mon, didn't you say you were a member of AGS? is there an actual offence of "evading a checkpoint"? How would that ever stand up in court, seriously? What if the guards set up a checkpoint 100yards further up the road from your laneway to your home, and you go left at your laneway before reaching their checkpoint? Would they follow you up the lane and do you for "evading their checkpoint"?

At least one guard is going to lose their job over all this!

Not how it read to me.

An internal garda inquiry has upheld the claim made on the Pulse intelligence system that Barry Cowen tried to evade a checkpoint when he was caught drink-driving four years ago. The former agriculture minister, who was sacked by the taoiseach on Tuesday, has insisted the account of his arrest is inaccurate and that he wants it changed.

Gardai who breath-tested the Fianna Fail TD in Co Kildare in September 2016 have been interviewed by their superiors and insist their account of the incident is correct. The inquiry by Garda Headquarters has concluded there is no evidence to suggest the information held on Pulse about Cowen’s arrest and prosecution is inaccurate.

The Sunday Times revealed last weekend that the Offaly TD has written to Garda Headquarters seeking to have the official record altered. He had threatened to sue the newspaper if it published the garda account.

Yesterday, Cowen said he still wanted the Pulse record changed. Talking to the Midlands 103 radio station, the TD said: “There is the potential for me to seek rectification of this issue and there are processes I have engaged in. There is legislation in place that offers citizens opportunities to pursue rectification. I am engaging in that, and I couldn’t engage in a process in the Dail that would undermine or prejudice those opportunities.”

A report is being prepared by the force’s data protection officer and senior gardai for Drew Harris, the commissioner. Security sources say gardai are unlikely to agree to Cowen’s request to have the information either amended or removed from Pulse. There are internal fears that it would set a precedent and leave the force open to accusations of being vulnerable to political interference.

James Brown

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

The Shinners and the looney left couldn’t even form a govt, despite as they say ‘winning the election’.
One of their main ‘spokesmen’ exulted as having “broken the state” and shouted support for a terrorist organisation.... and their camp followers wonder why they are not in govt.:eek:

When will the truth sink in, one wonders.

Desperate stuff B.
I see you didnt dispute my comment.

James Brown

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Don’t think so Mr Z, Middle Ireland is well able to differentiate between chaff and bullsdust and playing to the gallery and poor Pearse using his favourite word ‘clear’ on every thing.

Clear as a bathroom window after a teenagers shower P.

Bit to go yet mr Z......uhmmm.

Whiff of the heather and whins in the high hills still permeates the party, I’m afraid, a few bullrushes and bog cotton still stuck to the ‘fatigues’.

But.... who knows..

This the same middle Ireland who aren't behind government, who could sort health and housing in a few months but for interest groups?

Former Former

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

falsifying an injury for monetary gain is an illegal act.

In fairness, it was never proven and she denied it to the end. Now, a more cynical person might have a different take...

But what is different is that Maria Bailey was not selected by FG at election time. Let's see if FF do likewise with the bould Barry.

ohnonotgmail

Former Former wrote: »

In fairness, it was never proven and she denied it to the end. Now, a more cynical person might have a different take...

But what is different is that Maria Bailey was not selected by FG at election time. Let's see if FF do likewise with the bould Barry.

never proven but the dogs on the street know the truth.

McMurphy

McMurphy wrote: »

C'mon, didn't you say you were a member of AGS? is there an actual offence of "evading a checkpoint"? How would that ever stand up in court, seriously? What if the guards set up a checkpoint 100yards further up the road from your laneway to your home, and you go left at your laneway before reaching their checkpoint? Would they follow you up the lane and do you for "evading their checkpoint"?


Not how it read to me.

But isn't that the point?
The general public amaze me with their way to pick and choose who & what they believe based on nothing!
A guard will lose their job, as clearly someone has leaked information from the pulse system, which is actually a criminal offence.

Cute Hoor

Former Former wrote: »

But what is different is that Maria Bailey was not selected by FG at election time.

True but the most unfortunate and long suffering Alan was selected, suffering whiplash injuries for 18 months must be an awful cross to bear, how did he get on with political life atall atall

https://extra.ie/2019/06/05/news/irish-news/alan-farrell-whiplash-claim