Barry Cowen sacked

eagle eye

Former Former wrote:

Anyone who actually votes for this man at the next election should be barred from all future elections as they can't be trusted with something as important as democracy.

You are talking about barring voters for the sake of democracy?
Do you realise what you've just said?

FrancieBrady

bubblypop wrote: »

But isn't that the point?
The general public amaze me with their way to pick and choose who & what they believe based on nothing!
A guard will lose their job, as clearly someone has leaked information from the pulse system, which is actually a criminal offence.

If a Garda released the info they deserve the sack

Former Former

eagle eye wrote: »

You are talking about barring voters for the sake of democracy?
Do you realise what you've just said?

You may be taking that a little more seriously than it was intended.

But ultimately, it is the voters who reward dishonesty who are the real problem. We get the politicians we deserve.

And Cowen knows exactly what buttons to push to appeal to that particular mentality. He'll romp home next time because the one thing we'll never lack is gullible gombeens.

Eric Cartman

Former Former wrote: »

You may be taking that a little more seriously than it was intended.

But ultimately, it is the voters who reward dishonesty who are the real problem. We get the politicians we deserve.

And Cowen knows exactly what buttons to push to appeal to that particular mentality. He'll romp home next time because the one thing we'll never lack is gullible gombeens.

The same can be said for Mary Lou, Paul Murphy, Richard Boyd Barrett, Clare Daly, Mick Wallace, Ming Flannigan, The Healy-Rays etc... dishonesty and 'cute hoor'ism never stopped a politician in Ireland.

Cute Hoor

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The same can be said for Mary Lou, Paul Murphy, Richard Boyd Barrett, Clare Daly, Mick Wallace, Ming Flannigan, The Healy-Rays etc... dishonesty and 'cute hoor'ism never stopped a politician in Ireland.

You'll have to keep going, Harris, Murphy............Probably a case to be made for a lot of politicians

Eric Cartman

Cute Hoor wrote: »

You'll have to keep going, Harris, Murphy............Probably a case to be made for a lot of politicians

hah, id probably be better off making a list of honest ones, theres not many to count.

Snow Garden

Cute Hoor wrote: »

You'll have to keep going, Harris, Murphy............Probably a case to be made for a lot of politicians

When will Fine Gael get all those dodgy expenses back from Dara Murphy? Will MM's new deal with the EU go towards paying Murphy's big salary?

The lesson is clear for other backbench FG TDs...double jobbing pays bigtime.

Cute Hoor

"What's in it for the darkie", "Bring plenty of sterling", "The more that's in the bag the keener I will be"

Cute Hoor

Snow Garden wrote: »

When will Fine Gael get all those dodgy expenses back from Dara Murphy? Will MM's new deal with the EU go towards paying Murphy's big salary?

The lesson is clear for other backbench FG TDs...double jobbing pays bigtime.

The guts of €100k

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If a Garda released the info they deserve the sack

Yep, I agree, it's a criminal offence

Brendan Bendar

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The same can be said for Mary Lou, Paul Murphy, Richard Boyd Barrett, Clare Daly, Mick Wallace, Ming Flannigan, The Healy-Rays etc... dishonesty and 'cute hoor'ism never stopped a politician in Ireland.

Made them extremely electable one could say.

And most of them churns who did nothing for our country once elected bar rope in the extended family to dig the snouts deeper into trough.

Shefwedfan

Bowie wrote: »

This the same middle Ireland who aren't behind government, who could sort health and housing in a few months but for interest groups?

Who said middle Ireland aren’t behind the government?

Have you anything to back up this statement?

FrancieBrady

bubblypop wrote: »

Yep, I agree, it's a criminal offence

You make it sound like an unfortunate outcome. If he/she broke the law they can't complain.

Cute Hoor

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

And most of them churns who did nothing for our country once elected bar rope in the extended family to dig the snouts deeper into trough.

Are you thinking of Catherine Byrne

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You make it sound like an unfortunate outcome. If he/she broke the law they can't complain.

I don't know why you think that, you're wrong.
If someone breaks the law then they should face the consequences.
I wouldn't suggest otherwise

McMurphy

bubblypop wrote: »

But isn't that the point?
The general public amaze me with their way to pick and choose who & what they believe based on nothing!
A guard will lose their job, as clearly someone has leaked information from the pulse system, which is actually a criminal offence.

Let's back up a bit here, as a member of AGS you were going on about Cowen not being charged with evading a checkpoint, I've asked if this is an actual offence that someone could be charged with, nevermind convicted of.

As for the guard losing their job, it's not even close to a forgone conclusion that the information was leaked via pulse.

Thomas Byrne allegedly told another FF member that they went to the press with the story, if Thomas Byrne knew about Cowen pulling into the cul-de-sac with drink on him, who else knew and why assume anyone would need to rely on pulse to recall it in their minds?

Muahahaha

bubblypop wrote: »

But isn't that the point?
The general public amaze me with their way to pick and choose who & what they believe based on nothing!
A guard will lose their job, as clearly someone has leaked information from the pulse system, which is actually a criminal offence.

No Garda lost their job after Clare Daly had her Pulse file snooped on.

I cant see a Garda losing their job here either because the Pulse IT system is not infallible and Gardai who are leaking information off it know they must cover their tracks.

Brendan Bendar

Cute Hoor wrote: »

Are you thinking of Catherine Byrne

Don’t know anything about Ms Byrne, but there are plenty who have gone down that road.

McMurphy

McMurphy wrote: »

Let's back up a bit here, as a member of AGS you were going on about Cowen not being charged with evading a checkpoint, I've asked if this is an actual offence that someone could be charged with, nevermind convicted of.

As for the guard losing their job, it's not even close to a forgone conclusion that the information was leaked via pulse.

Thomas Byrne allegedly told another FF member that they went to the press with the story, if Thomas Byrne knew about Cowen pulling into the cul-de-sac with drink on him, who else knew and why assume anyone would need to rely on pulse to recall it in their minds?

Well exactly my point !!
It isn't an offence anyone can be convicted of, and it cannot be proved.
Did Thomas Byrne know about the turn away?

Muahahaha

Muahahaha wrote: »

No Garda lost their job after Clare Daly had her Pulse file snooped on.

I cant see a Garda losing their job here either because the Pulse IT system is not infallible and Gardai who are leaking information off it know they must cover their tracks.

How would they cover their tracks?
Clare Dalys arrest wasn't leaked from a pulse incident.

Cute Hoor

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Don’t know anything about Ms Byrne, but there are plenty who have gone down that road.

Catherine Byrne, FG TD Dublin South Central TD and Minister of State
Niece Nina employed as Parliamentary Assistant
Daughter Clare employed as Secretarial Assistant
Niece Sandra employed as Secretarial Assistant while daughter Clare was on Maternity leave

McMurphy

bubblypop wrote: »

Well exactly my point !!
It isn't an offence anyone can be convicted of, and it cannot be proved.

That's what I would have of assumed, as it would be pretty much nigh on impossible to prove, which was why I questioned this.

bubblypop wrote: »

He wasn't convicted of evading a checkpoint, in fact, he wasn't even charged with it.

Did Thomas Byrne know about the turn away?

I don't know exactly what information Byrne was aware of, but suffice to say he knew about the drink driving anyway.

It was alleged that he (Thomas Byrne) leaked the story to the press that seems to have initially got the ball rolling. The press subsequently had details of exactly what Cowen was accused of (including the cul-de-sac incident) then we have Cowen himself saying he had a copy of his record from Pulse, (however he managed that is anyone's guess)

Its not a given that the sorry broke on the back of a leaked pulse report, there may well have been a case of someone accessing his pulse report after the story broke (Barry Cowen said he became aware of the report and wanted to get it changed).

There's a GSOC inquiry underway apparently so it will be interesting to see how that goes. I do agree with you however that guards deliberately leaking these things (if it does emerge to be the case) should have everything thrown at them.

No matter anyone's political persuasion, their Garda records should be allowed to remain private.

Brendan Bendar

Cute Hoor wrote: »

Catherine Byrne, FG TD Dublin South Central TD and Minister of State
Niece Nina employed as Parliamentary Assistant
Daughter Clare employed as Secretarial Assistant
Niece Sandra employed as Secretarial Assistant while daughter Clare was on Maternity leave

Fairly deep snout there for sure.....

Poor Aonghus burning though the printer cartridges pales in comparison

Cute Hoor

McMurphy wrote: »

It was alleged that he (Thomas Byrne) leaked the story to the press that seems to have initially got the ball rolling. The press subsequently had details of exactly what Cowen was accused of (including the cul-de-sac incident) then we have Cowen himself saying he had a copy of his record from Pulse, (however he managed that is anyone's guess)

Its not a given that the sorry broke on the back of a leaked pulse report, there may well have been a case of someone accessing his pulse report after the story broke (Barry Cowen said he became aware of the report and wanted to get it changed).

There's a GSOC inquiry underway apparently so it will be interesting to see how that goes. I do agree with you however that guards deliberately leaking these things (if it does emerge to be the case) should have everything thrown at them.

No matter anyone's political persuasion, their Garda records should be allowed to remain private.

I think it will be very difficult to identify who leaked to the press about the turn-off into the estate, unless somebody has been a total gobsh1te, everybody who has access to the Pulse system knows that any access is leaving an audit trail so it’s unlikely imo to have been accessed recently. It might be possible for a Pulse system techie to delete the audit trail but that’s a long shot.

Hundreds (if not more) of people would have known what happened that evening, Cowen himself and close family and friends, the Garda(i) involved and probably their mates in the station and outside, the people in the estate he drove into, tons of people. I doubt they will ever identify the songbird.

BonnieSituation

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Fairly deep snout there for sure.....

Poor Aonghus burning though the printer cartridges pales in comparison

Oh my. Another post referencing Sinn Féin for no reason. I for one am shocked.

blanch152

McMurphy wrote: »

No matter anyone's political persuasion, their Garda records should be allowed to remain private.

That would have been my initial thoughts, however, given there is selective leaking - and Cowen and Daly both appear to be victims of this - wouldn’t it be better to publicise the Garda record of every candidate?

I mean, what if there is another Minister with a criminal record? Why should he get off free while Cowen is sacked?

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

That would have been my initial thoughts, however, given there is selective leaking - and Cowen and Daly both appear to be victims of this - wouldn’t it be better to publicise the Garda record of every candidate?

I mean, what if there is another Minister with a criminal record? Why should he get off free while Cowen is sacked?

We should know every ministers background. Can we include business interests too? That would be swell.

McMurphy

blanch152 wrote: »

That would have been my initial thoughts, however, given there is selective leaking - and Cowen and Daly both appear to be victims of this - wouldn’t it be better to publicise the Garda record of every candidate?

Are you suggesting that anyone who wants to hold a TD or ministerial position should be prepared to have their complete Garda record made public?

Well, no i don't think it should.


Both Daly and Cowen should have had their privacy rights respected, I'm certainly not going to advice for anyone interested in going into public office to have all of their private Garda records made public and open to scrutiny by the public, that would be one hell of a way to both deter people from politics, and open the door for other stuff to be ushered in. What next? Financial affairs? Past businesses that went bankrupt? Blood type? Sexuality? Number of partners?

I mean, what if there is another Minister with a criminal record? Why should he get off free while Cowen is sacked?

Forr the UMPTEENTH TIME....


Cowen wasn't sacked because of his breathalyser/avoiding the checkpoint stunt. But I am guessing you knew that already, and what you posted above was actually some prefaced run up to get in some Sinn Fein reference?

Tell me I'm wrong if you like, but I know I'm not.

blanch152

McMurphy wrote: »

Are you suggesting that anyone who wants to hold a TD or ministerial position should be prepared to have their complete Garda record made public?

Well, no i don't think it should.


Both Daly and Cowen should have had their privacy rights respected, I'm certainly not going to advice for anyone interested in going into public office to have all of their private Garda records made public and open to scrutiny by the public, that would be one hell of a way to both deter people from politics, and open the door for other stuff to be ushered in. What next? Financial affairs? Past businesses that went bankrupt? Blood type? Sexuality? Number of partners?



Forr the UMPTEENTH TIME....


Cowen wasn't sacked because of his breathalyser/avoiding the checkpoint stunt. But I am guessing you knew that already, and what you posted above was actually some prefaced run up to get in some Sinn Fein reference?

Tell me I'm wrong if you like, but I know I'm not.

So you want political candidates to be able to hide their criminal past?

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

We should know every ministers background. Can we include business interests too? That would be swell.

If we want that, we have to ask it of every candidate.

The business interests are already covered by the Register of Interests.