Barry Cowen sacked

Jimi H

expectationlost wrote: »

remember when Barry Cowen was caught speeding in the Dail https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1187049518929469441

Hmmm. Nothing to add other than he didn’t ask anyone to vote on his behalf. So no confirmation as to whether someone/Timmy Dooley actually voted on his behalf. Transparency at it’s finest.

With the drink driving, it seems to me he would have been quite happy to carry on without informing his party leader. I don’t understand what he means by regularising the licence. Personally, I would be much more comfortable with politicians who are upfront and honest without having to drag out every detail.

Homelander

You're constantly changing the goalposts. How do you expect anyone to have a rational discussion with you? You've made repeated claims that the media/papers (plural) buried or "ignored" the story, that it was a deliberate calculated treatment of Cowen V Daly, etc - sorry, but that is all total conspiracy waffle.

It's putting 1 + 1 together and insisting the answer could be 3.

The media didn't know about Cowen until someone tipped them off at this opportunistic point in time for the informant.

The media did know about Daly because someone told them.

Notwithstanding the completely different context, circumstance, location of these two incidents.

That's nothing to do with the media, and everything to do with someone passing them information.

No journalist filed a story about a rural TD from an unpopular, out of power party getting rapped on the knuckles for drink-driving in their big "possible future national scandals" folder. It would have been a good story in 2016, 2017, 2018, or any year it became known about.

I won't even go into your ridiculous random accusations that people are "apologising for drink drivers" by attempting to point this out to you.

Feisar

He was also claiming full whack travel expenses during the time!

James Brown

Homelander wrote: »

You're constantly changing the goalposts. How do you expect anyone to have a rational discussion with you? You've made repeated claims that the media/papers (plural) buried or "ignored" the story, that it was a deliberate calculated treatment of Cowen V Daly, etc - sorry, but that is all total conspiracy waffle.

It's putting 1 + 1 together and insisting the answer could be 3.

The media didn't know about Cowen until someone tipped them off at this opportunistic point in time for the informant.

The media did know about Daly because someone told them.

Notwithstanding the completely different context, circumstance, location of these two incidents.

That's nothing to do with the media, and everything to do with someone passing them information.

No journalist filed a story about a rural TD from an unpopular, out of power party getting rapped on the knuckles for drink-driving in their big "possible future national scandals" folder. It would have been a good story in 2016, 2017, 2018, or any year it became known about.

I won't even go into your ridiculous random accusations that people are "apologising for drink drivers" by attempting to point this out to you.

I've asked did they and if so, why? I've compared the two cases and wondered about why one had no reporting and the other very detailed. I also wondered why Cowen's story was coming out now. These are topics of discussion and questions.

You don't know whether they knew about Cowen or not. Neither do I.
An apologist for Cowen was my meaning. You are now playing down the incident. It seems you are more concerned about shutting down debate and dismissing the entire incident. That's cool and all, but...

Bass Reeves

Feisar wrote: »

He was also claiming full whack travel expenses during the time!

It not traveling expenses it a fixed attendance allowance for attending the Dail to cover meal travel and accommodation expenses.

This is hilarious actually. There lads on here who's point seems to be that a Garda that caught Barry Cowen on a breathalyser test did him a favour by not ringing journalist's to let them know he caught him

Another factor Claire Daly was carried into a large Dublin Garda station where at any one time there would be 20+ Gardai and other officials there and another couple hundred based there so anybody giving info to a journalist would be hard to point the finger at.

Cowen was probably to taken to a smaller station where maybe at the time there was 4+5 or less present

Homelander

Bowie wrote: »

It seems you are more concerned about shutting down debate and dismissing the entire incident. That's cool and all, but...

Dismissing the entire incident? Oh yeah, sorry, forgot I was a staunch supporter of drink-driving for dismissing your conspiracy theories.

And that I was locked in debate with everyone on this thread who had a different opinion to mine....wait, no, it was just those aforementioned conspiracies belonging to yourself.

And at least have the decency to acknowledge what you actually said. You were certainly not "wondering" why the Cowen story wasn't reported.

You literally claimed that the media/papers were "burying" the stories.

That they stayed deliberately silent.

That it was a calculated contrast between the treatment of Daly and Cowen as if a) they knew about both and b) both were contextually identical, but they decided to murder Daly and give Cowen a free pass.

And various other claims that basically alluded to the conspiracy that the media/papers made a calculated decision to "bury" the story for unknown, conspiracy-based reasons.

So no, I didn't take issue with anyone "wondering" why the story wasn't reported, just you specifically for the conspiracy stuff about the media.

BattleCorp

No fan of FF or FG for that matter but personally I don't care if Cowan was done for drink driving over four years ago. What I care about is can he do the job?

Would I be fired from my job today because my employer found out about an old drink driving conviction from four years ago that matters sweet fcuk all to my job today? Fcuk no.

walshb

BattleCorp wrote: »

No fan of FF or FG for that matter but personally I don't care if Cowan was done for drink driving over four years ago. What I care about is can he do the job?

Would I be fired from my job today because my employer found out about an old drink driving conviction from four years ago that matters sweet fcuk all to my job today? Fcuk no.

Are you an elected representative/TD/Politician that should be setting standards and examples for society? Someone that others look to to lead and show standards?

Not everyone in society is equal here.Some people are held to highers standards, as they should be...that is not to say that we ALL should not try to have standards.

This is not jay walking or a speeding (driving above a peed limit) offense, which can happen to anyone...

It is a deliberate choice to ingest alcohol and get behind the wheel of a car...serious ****1.

Then failing to disclose this to the party.

SC024

big f.cking deal, it was 4 years ago who cares? he made a mistake, got caught & had paid the price for it.

Old news, honestly think there must be more important things to be discussed / make the news.

Zebra3

SC024 wrote: »

big f.cking deal, it was 4 years ago who cares? he made a mistake, got caught & had paid the price for it.

Old news, honestly think there must be more important things to be discussed / make the news.

He didn't make a mistake.

He deliberately chose to drive after consuming alcohol.

SC024

Zebra3 wrote: »

He didn't make a mistake.

He deliberately chose to drive after consuming alcohol.

which was a bad choice / mistake.

either way it was 4 years ago, my point still stands that he paid the price. end of story.

Bob Harris

I don't believe that the party didn't know. Do they not get asked about their backgrounds? Is there no vetting process to make sure they are prepared for this kind of skeleton in the closet issues? Again, hard to believe that Cowen didn't disclose it or that the party didn't know before it was made public.

Bass Reeves

I am sure there is a couple in the dail that have admitted to inhaling.

James Brown

Homelander wrote: »

Dismissing the entire incident? Oh yeah, sorry, forgot I was a staunch supporter of drink-driving for dismissing your conspiracy theories.

And that I was locked in debate with everyone on this thread who had a different opinion to mine....wait, no, it was just those aforementioned conspiracies belonging to yourself.

And at least have the decency to acknowledge what you actually said. You were certainly not "wondering" why the Cowen story wasn't reported.

You literally claimed that the media/papers were "burying" the stories.

That they stayed deliberately silent.

That it was a calculated contrast between the treatment of Daly and Cowen as if a) they knew about both and b) both were contextually identical, but they decided to murder Daly and give Cowen a free pass.

And various other claims that basically alluded to the conspiracy that the media/papers made a calculated decision to "bury" the story for unknown, conspiracy-based reasons.

So no, I didn't take issue with anyone "wondering" why the story wasn't reported, just you specifically for the conspiracy stuff about the media.

You seem very het up.
I compare the two because they are both politicians, as described, both in opposition, (her standing down lower than that of a FF'er IMO, but not too relevant).
She had every detail in the paper. He didn't. That's the gist. While you are happy to pass it off as they knew about one and didn't about the other, you might be right, except we don't know.
The leak of Daly's incident by a Garda would be conspiracy theory, but it's generally accepted as the most likely. With Cowen a journo may have had the story and sat on it or being told by an editor to sit on it, happens. That's not conspiracy theory. Maybe no Garda said anything. Maybe no family friend told anyone. Maybe Cowen told nobody, all possible.
I personally think the garda wanted Daly hammered in the press and I think many a politician was happy to see it.
I believe people knew about Cowen, likely MM too and they kept it quiet until somebody told the press recently or a journo who had been sitting on it decided now he's in government it would get more traction.

Sierra Oscar

Feisar wrote: »

He was also claiming full whack travel expenses during the time!

He was entitled to claim the allowance - it's travel allowance to and from the Dáil and not linked to him specifically driving. Once he clocked in he was entitled to claim it.

His biggest issue is stating that he drank two pints at lunchtime and was still over the limit well into the evening. Doesn't make sense to me, he should have been well under the limit at that stage. If it ever came out that he drank more than two pints then he would be in trouble. I'm assuming he's hoping no one was keeping tabs on how much he was drinking at the time!

jmayo

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

So SF and IDs are fair game to Gardai but not FF or FG

Ahh FFS did I say that?

I gave an explanation as to why Gardai may decide to hang some out to dry and some others not.

Do you think back in that day when Jim Higgins (FG Mayo) and Brendan Howlin (Lab Wexford) were highlighting the Donegal Gardai and what they did to the McBrearty family, that they would not have been shopped toute suite to the media if they were caught doing anything remotely illegal by Gardai in certain parts of the country???

Of course they would have been.

Was Jim McDaid (FF Donegal) protected by Gardai for driving down the Nass dual carriageway the wrong way?
Was he fook?

Hoboo wrote: »

At what stage is it ok for a politician to break the law and remain a public leader/representative. From this thread it seems acceptable to drink and drive. What about taking drugs and driving? Assault? Rape?

Why and where is there a line drawn? TDs and public reps should be beyond reproach, it's part and parcel of the role. They all know that, and there's plenty who tow the line that can replace him.

Ahh FFS is this place full of kids or delusional eejits?

Look at most major democracies and you find politicians flirting with dodgy stuff or breaking the law to some extent and they often are still elected.

Canada is often held up as some beacon, but check out Rob Ford.
Now there was a man who could drink and do lots of other shyte as well.
Hell he would probably have drunken Cowan the elder under the table.

And Rob Ford was going to run for Mayor of Toronto after all his scandals, but couldn't because of sickness.
He did hold onto his council seat however.

Would you fire a minister that was caught speeding ?

We are talking about a guy that was caught over the limit, took his punishment and paid the fine.

It is hardly like being caught running guns to terrorists now is it or serving time in jail for terrorist organisation membership and explosives charges ?

walshb wrote: »

Yes, in a place where standards and morals and decency and principles apply this would be a given..

Sadly we are regressing in these areas days by day..it’s been a dog eat dog world for many a year now..

Yes fire someone that is caught doing serious crime or caught doing corruption.
Or can't explain where they have loads of cash yet no bank account. :rolleyes:

Zebra3

SC024 wrote: »

which was a bad choice / mistake.

either way it was 4 years ago, my point still stands that he paid the price. end of story.

No, your point doesn't stand as it wasn't a mistake.

He knew he was potentially breaking the law and still went ahead.

And it's not the end of the story as it would seem he'll have serious questions to answer about how he got to and from Kildare St while on a learner's permit for so long.

Muahahaha

Well he definitely got taken to task by that women representing the families of victims of drunk driving there on the RTE 6.1 news. She herself had her husband killed by a driver driving unaccompanied on a learner permit. She raised a few questions

-If Cowen was driving up and down to Leinster House from 2011-2016 on a provisional license was he accompanied by a full licensed driver at all times, as is the law
-Did he display L plates
-And when he got his full license did he display N plates

Gonna be some journos now looking back on photos of the car park at Leinster House and TV footage of him arriving. I can definitely recall him giving a couple of interviews out the car window over the years and I dont recall anyone sitting beside him

AndrewJRenko

VillageIdiot71 wrote: »

Absolutely, any politician at this stage should expect such questions.Absolutely. Still not a peep from any corner of the press about new Minister Roderic O'Gorman's endorsement of Peter Tatchell.

Not a peep? This was published about the same time as you posted.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/minister-for-children-condemns-homophobic-attacks-from-far-right-1.4297259

jackboy

Muahahaha wrote: »

-If Cowen was driving up and down to Leinster House from 2011-2016 on a provisional license was he accompanied by a full licensed driver at all times, as is the law
-Did he display L plates
-And when he got his full license did he display N plates

and, did he always renew his provisional licence on time? was there any period of time when he was driving with no license at all?

Someone who can’t be arsed getting a full licence is unlikely to be motivated enough to renew his provisional licence on time.

Muahahaha

Plus him not even having a full license until the age of 49. How many years was he on a provisional, was it 10, 20 or even 30 years he was driving about having ever passed a test? Its hard to believe that this is the calibre of Minister we now have making decisions when they couldnt even sort out a driving license for decades on end.

Spanish Eyes

Muahahaha wrote: »

Plus him not even having a full license until the age of 49. How many years was he on a provisional, was it 10, 20 or even 30 years he was driving about having ever passed a test? Its hard to believe that this is the calibre of Minister we now have making decisions when they couldnt even sort out a driving license for decades on end.

Exactly and a pure point to note.

tayto lover

Is he still on the Provisional Licence?
Should he not also have a full licence holder with him?

fawlty682

No issue with him being appointed Minister. Obviously this was dug up by some FF. disgruntled member in good US style politics. However, it does raise the incompetence of the RSA and Transport Department not sorting out the ridiculous handing out of Provisional licenses for decades. Also, a TD driving on a Provisional license to and from the Dail is Father Ted style. It’s easily fixed like a lot of issues in this country. Even today, furore about street drinking etc in Dublin, apparently it is not an offense to drink on those streets. This is why Messrs Martin/Donnelly will try to confine us to this island as we have no proper test/trace measures for foreign travel after almost 4 months, unlike rest of Europe.

Gatling

Muahahaha wrote: »

-If Cowen was driving up and down to Leinster House from 2011-2016 on a provisional license was he accompanied by a full licensed driver at all times, as is the law
-Did he display L plates
-And when he got his full license did he display N plates

Learners permit and provisional licenses had different requirements if he held the provisional at the time he could drive unaccompanied on his second provisional N plates weren't around at the time

JP Liz V1

Has the new Transport minister made any comment yet?

Spanish Eyes

I think the major embarrassment here is the fact that he was driving on a Provisional/Learner permit. WTAF at his age and stage in life.

The drink driving thing didn't have any impact and the sanction was within the rules at the time. But I LOL at the fact that he was still learning to drive at his age. OMG. But FF never fails to impress.

Gatling

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I think the major embarrassment here is the fact that he was driving on a Provisional/Learner permit. WTAF at his age and stage in life.

This came up today on the radio there is tens of thousands of people 30 + on learners permits and I believe 5000+ still on the old provisionals ,
I didn't take up driving full time till my mid 30s it's not uncommon

bodyguard1

He has broken several laws under the Road Traffic Act driving apart from the Drink Driving Conviction for which he paid his fine and was banned from driving for a period, as the holder of a Provisional Licence the new provisions known as the 'Clancy Amendment' now make it an offence for the owner of a vehicle to knowingly allow an unaccompanied learner or an unlicensed person to drive his or her vehicle. The provisions also extend the power of detention under section 41 of the Road Traffic Act 1994 to allow the Garda Síochána to detain a vehicle being driven, in the Garda’s opinion, by an unaccompanied learner.

Ms Moyagh Murdock, Chief Executive, Road Safety Authority said: “Now, with the introduction of the ‘Clancy Amendment’, if you are an unaccompanied learner driver or you let one drive unaccompanied, you will face the consequences. A learner permit is not a licence. Learners have not passed a driving test. As inexperienced and unqualified drivers they’re a risk to themselves and other road users if allowed to drive unsupervised.”

Learner drivers have to display L Plates to the vehicle they are driving and be accompanied by a licensed driver at all times. They are not permitted to drive on Motorways and even when they pass their Driving Test they must display an N Plate for 2 years to identify themselves as a Novice Driver.

But the question is will he hold the title of holding a ministerial role for one of the shortest terms in political history ?? Hell No because we all know that the Laws of the Land do not apply to people in power.

Jizique

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I think the major embarrassment here is the fact that he was driving on a Provisional/Learner permit. WTAF at his age and stage in life.

The drink driving thing didn't have any impact and the sanction was within the rules at the time. But I LOL at the fact that he was still learning to drive at his age. OMG. But FF never fails to impress.

It is truly remarkable that a rural estate agent, which presumably involves a certain amount of travel between sites and locations, particularly in the CTiger days, would not have had a full license.