Barry Cowen sacked

Gatling

bodyguard1 wrote: »

He has broken several laws under the Road Traffic Act driving apart from the Drink Driving Conviction for which he paid his fine and was banned from driving for a period, as the holder of a Provisional Licence the new provisions known as the 'Clancy Amendment' now make it an offence for the owner of a vehicle to knowingly

Only covers those with learners permits not provisional licenses laws are not retrospectively applied .

Muscles Schultz

Muahahaha wrote: »

Plus him not even having a full license until the age of 49. How many years was he on a provisional, was it 10, 20 or even 30 years he was driving about having ever passed a test? Its hard to believe that this is the calibre of Minister we now have making decisions when they couldnt even sort out a driving license for decades on end.

Only geeks or weaks don’t get their license by their early 20s

Pedro K

Gatling wrote: »

Learners permit and provisional licenses had different requirements if he held the provisional at the time he could drive unaccompanied on his second provisional N plates weren't around at the time

That changed in 2008. Provisional licences only lasted two years. He would have had to renew to a learner's permit by 2010 at the latest. Also, only the second provisional had the exemption for accompaniment. Third and subsequent provisionals had the requirement to be accompanied.

Edgware

Muscles Schultz wrote: »

Only geeks or weaks don’t get their license by their early 20s

Muahahaha wrote: »

Well he definitely got taken to task by that women representing the families of victims of drunk driving there on the RTE 6.1 news. She herself had her husband killed by a driver driving unaccompanied on a learner permit. She raised a few questions

-If Cowen was driving up and down to Leinster House from 2011-2016 on a provisional license was he accompanied by a full licensed driver at all times, as is the law
-Did he display L plates
-And when he got his full license did he display N plates

Gonna be some journos now looking back on photos of the car park at Leinster House and TV footage of him arriving. I can definitely recall him giving a couple of interviews out the car window over the years and I dont recall anyone sitting beside him

Good old R.T.E. always ready to wheel out some victim. Cowan didn't knock anyone down. Maybe they should get on to Saoirse McHugh. She probably is in need of some publicity

Spanish Eyes

Aw I bet he is morto having to admit he is on a provisional/learner permit, the poor divil.

FF again, anything goes. I am disgusted from Offaly lol.

KaneToad

Was it clarified if he drove on the motorway during his jaunts up and down to Dublin, over the past few decades?

Muahahaha

tayto lover wrote: »

Is he still on the Provisional Licence?
Should he not also have a full licence holder with him?

no his story is he finally did his test and got his full license sometime after he got caught drink driving in 2016. But as another poster pointed out he was an estate agent who would have needed to drive all around the county and then from 2011 to 2016 he has to drive up and down to Dublin several times a week

Edgware wrote: »

Good old R.T.E. always ready to wheel out some victim. Cowan didn't knock anyone down. Maybe they should get on to Saoirse McHugh. She probably is in need of some publicity

Its always the same excuse from apologists of drink drivers "sure they didnt kill anyone". Thats completely beside the point because we know from the stats that you are much more likely to kill or seriously injure someone when you have drink taken. There are thousands of families up and down the country who have lost loved ones to drink drivers, I know of three myself persoanlly and would say everyone knows some family that has been devastated by it. Thats why we have the laws in the first place, to prevent selfish idiots like Cowen going around and putting other peoples lives in danger.

capefear

According to the RTÉ at 9. He is making a statement tomorrow in the dail.

KaneToad

capefear wrote: »

According to the RTÉ at 9. He is making a statement tomorrow in the dail.

Lots of hand wringing and solemn words. Then back to doing whatever he wants.

Public representatives should be held to the highest standards. Drink driving does not meet that standard.

SC024

Theres a lot more people out there that's never sat a test in there life, and more still that have passed the test & cant drive to save there lives.

Muahahaha wrote: »

Plus him not even having a full license until the age of 49. How many years was he on a provisional, was it 10, 20 or even 30 years he was driving about having ever passed a test? Its hard to believe that this is the calibre of Minister we now have making decisions when they couldnt even sort out a driving license for decades on end.

Spanish Eyes

The real test is how MM deals with this. I am betting on him doing nothing and hoping it will all just go away. Which in fairness is what will happen anyway.

But has MM said anything of note so far as our new LEADER?

Was willing to give a bit of leeway, but not so sure now. Nothing about Covid either. But sure play to your grassroots down at the Silver Key pub around the corner from yer house. Nice.

FrancieBrady

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

The real test is how MM deals with this. I am betting on him doing nothing and hoping it will all just go away. Which in fairness is what will happen anyway.

But has MM said anything of note so far as our new LEADER?

Was willing to give a bit of leeway, but not so sure now. Nothing about Covid either. But sure play to your grassroots down at the Silver Key pub around the corner from yer house. Nice.

The Road Victims Assoc don't seem to be willing to let this one lie.
At worst it will show Martin clearly talking out of both sides of his mouth. Hard to sound right about drink driving.

Muscles Schultz

What’s the downside of MM throwing Cowen under the bus and giving Calleary the job. Would keep a few if the unwashed boggers over the Shannon in line.

Muahahaha

capefear wrote: »

According to the RTÉ at 9. He is making a statement tomorrow in the dail.

The Dail statement is a red herring because the government are not allowing opposition TDs to ask him questions on it. Its an attempt to draw a line underneath the issue without any scrutiny.

NickNickleby

CAn't stand the man at all.

However, there's a law about drink driving with prescribed penalties for those who break that law. He broke the law, the prescribed penalties were applied.

Now, if he had been a repeat offender and been repeatedly caught, and only the same prescribed penalties were applied then perhaps there might be a case for demanding more.

He was caught, didn't pull strings, and there's no hint of a backlash against the prosecuting Garda (unlike a poor sod who was transferred to the far end of the country in the 60/70's for doing a well known politico).

To me this reeks of chicanery by people with access to the media, who have a vested interest in seeing MM brought down. I say that as someone who has no time for FF.

Diverboy

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The Road Victims Assoc don't seem to be willing to let this one lie.
At worst it will show Martin clearly talking out of both sides of his mouth. Hard to sound right about drink driving.

Between this and Billy Kelleher skipping quarantine we are just over a week into a FF led government and it already feels like the bar for what is acceptable in public office has been lowered.

Muahahaha

NickNickleby wrote: »

CAn't stand the man at all.

However, there's a law about drink driving with prescribed penalties for those who break that law. He broke the law, the prescribed penalties were applied.

Yeah thats fair enough, he did the crime and took his punishement. But it doesnt mean there arent any questions over his judgement. He didnt make a mistake in drunk driving, he knew he was driving to the All Ireland and had to get home so drinking pints in the interim is delibriately intending to commit a crime. Its not the standard of judgement you would expect from a Minister.

Although I will say it is progress that he got done at all. Here is Fine Gaels sacked Minister for Justice just a few years prior refusing to even take a breathalyser test when stopped by the Gardai

A GARDA report filed on the incident in which Alan Shatter was stopped at a drink-drive checkpoint has gone missing, the Irish Independent has learnt.

An informed source has revealed the garda who stopped Mr Shatter felt he was not fully co-operative.

She was also asked by the then Fine Gael frontbench spokesman: "Don't you know who I am?"

Mr Shatter faces a motion of no confidence in the Dail this evening.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/dont-you-know-who-i-am-what-shatter-said-to-garda-29300483.html

Fine Gael circled the wagons on that one just the same way as Fianna Fail are doing now with Cowen. Two cheeks of the same arse as they say.

Bannasidhe

Gatling wrote: »

Learners permit and provisional licenses had different requirements if he held the provisional at the time he could drive unaccompanied on his second provisional N plates weren't around at the time

N plates came in Aug 2014.

NickNickleby

Muahahaha wrote: »

Yeah thats fair enough, he did the crime and took his punishement. But it doesnt mean there arent any questions over his judgement. He didnt make a mistake in drunk driving, he knew he was driving to the All Ireland and had to get home so drinking pints in the interim is delibriately intending to commit a crime. Its not the standard of judgement you would expect from a Minister.

Although I will say it is progress that he got done at all. Here is Fine Gaels sacked Minister for Justice just a few years prior refusing to even take a breathalyser test when stopped by the Gardai


https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/dont-you-know-who-i-am-what-shatter-said-to-garda-29300483.html

Fine Gael circled the wagons on that one just the same way as Fianna Fail are doing now with Cowen. Two cheeks of the same arse as they say.

Yeah, we have come some distance in my lifetime. Priests, politicians and Gardai all in the golden circle of untouchability. (edit: no longer, thankfully - and hopefully).

As for his judgement, I prefer the approach that he 'did the maths' and reckoned that by the time he got into the car, the elapsed time and food would have reduced the level to below the limit - got it wrong and got done. So rather than contempt for the law, maybe it was simply a miscalculation. Of course that's just speculation on my part.

Spanish Eyes

Diverboy wrote: »

Between this and Billy Kelleher skipping quarantine we are just over a week into a FF led government and it already feels like the bar for what is acceptable in public office has been lowered.

Well that's FF for some but they are lionised by others too. Idiots that they are.

Haven't heard a word from our Taoiseach yet, has anyone?

14% ratings yah right. Leopards never change their spots.

Spanish Eyes

NickNickleby wrote: »

CAn't stand the man at all.

However, there's a law about drink driving with prescribed penalties for those who break that law. He broke the law, the prescribed penalties were applied.

Now, if he had been a repeat offender and been repeatedly caught, and only the same prescribed penalties were applied then perhaps there might be a case for demanding more.

He was caught, didn't pull strings, and there's no hint of a backlash against the prosecuting Garda (unlike a poor sod who was transferred to the far end of the country in the 60/70's for doing a well known politico).

To me this reeks of chicanery by people with access to the media, who have a vested interest in seeing MM brought down. I say that as someone who has no time for FF.

It will be gone by the weekend make no mistake. There is no conspiracy, it is politics and be damned.

The big thing for me is that he was on a provisional/learner permit at his stage in life. That might require a bit more digging.

BonnieSituation

SC024 wrote: »

Theres a lot more people out there that's never sat a test in there life, and more still that have passed the test & cant drive to save there lives.

Grand. Are they ministers? Have they been caught drink driving?

BonnieSituation

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

It will be gone by the weekend make no mistake. There is no conspiracy, it is politics and be damned.

The big thing for me is that he was on a provisional/learner permit at his stage in life. That might require a bit more digging.

Big thing is how badly he miscalculated the alcoholic content of the "couple of pints". It's almost like the whole story just doesn't add up.

NickNickleby

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

It will be gone by the weekend make no mistake. There is no conspiracy, it is politics and be damned.

The big thing for me is that he was on a provisional/learner permit at his stage in life. That might require a bit more digging.

I know I'll sound naïve, but I don't see or expect a problem around licence, unless he has been done for it. Because without that, we've no evidence of wrongdoing, and I've a difficulty with hammering him - even if the prevailing circumstances 'suggest' he must have driven unaccompanied at some time, somewhere. (do I think he might have ?, hmmm, probably:o)

Yes, I know I might come across as tinfoil hat with my conspiracy theory, but isn't it awful that, that IS politics?

NickNickleby

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Big thing is how badly he miscalculated the alcoholic content of the "couple of pints". It's almost like the whole story just doesn't add up.

Bear with me, it might look like I'm trying to contradict everyone who speaks against him, but I'm actually not a contrarian, I'm just trying to be consistent in what I post (well, here anyway:pac:).

I actually think this is key......

I actually think the miscalculation is easily understood, after all, he was above the lower limit, but below the 'higher' limit. So, if that had been me, woohoo, my calculation would save me on the basis that I have a full licence. So I think its unlikely he had a rake of pints and then tried it on.

I'm probably more reacting to the finger pointing in the political arena, which may be colouring my thinking a little.

Spanish Eyes probably nailed it for me above - its not a conspiracy its politics.

JP Liz V1

Diverboy wrote: »

Between this and Billy Kelleher skipping quarantine we are just over a week into a FF led government and it already feels like the bar for what is acceptable in public office has been lowered.

Plus Stephen Donnelly visiting a strip club and trying cannabis

expectationlost

Muahahaha wrote: »

Well he definitely got taken to task by that women representing the families of victims of drunk driving there on the RTE 6.1 news. She herself had her husband killed by a driver driving unaccompanied on a learner permit. She raised a few questions

-If Cowen was driving up and down to Leinster House from 2011-2016 on a provisional license was he accompanied by a full licensed driver at all times, as is the law
-Did he display L plates
-And when he got his full license did he display N plates

Gonna be some journos now looking back on photos of the car park at Leinster House and TV footage of him arriving. I can definitely recall him giving a couple of interviews out the car window over the years and I dont recall anyone sitting beside him

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=113943124

Zebra3

FFers will be hoping that this will pass quickly and are on here trying to promote that idea, but the reality is that there will be loads of journos out there looking for the knockout punch that Cowen was driving unaccompanied on less than a full licence or anything similar which shows him breaking the law.

The mainstream media (as in what used to be newspapers) are suffering from falling revenues, and this is a big chance to boost circulation/hits. Putting a new government on the back foot days in to its' administration would be a boon for them.

That's all assuming Cowen tries to play it off as a one off with a mea cupla. If he does so and gets caught out for anything else he's finished as anything beyond a back bencher. If he fesses up for anything else, he could hold his seat, spend a couple of years in the background but still head into the next GE as a minister.

Only in this corrupt kip though.....

KaneToad

NickNickleby wrote: »

Bear with me, it might look like I'm trying to contradict everyone who speaks against him, but I'm actually not a contrarian, I'm just trying to be consistent in what I post (well, here anyway:pac:).

I actually think this is key......

I actually think the miscalculation is easily understood, after all, he was above the lower limit, but below the 'higher' limit. So, if that had been me, woohoo, my calculation would save me on the basis that I have a full licence. So I think its unlikely he had a rake of pints and then tried it on...

He claimed to have had 2 pints.
Then gone to All Ireland final. (2 hours)
Then had a meal. (1 hour)
Stopped and breathalysed midway between Dublin/Clara (1 hour)

All timings above are on the conservative side. So, in 4 hours, he was still over the limit after only having 2 pints...

dundalkfc10

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Plus Stephen Donnelly visiting a strip club and trying cannabis

Watched a girl dance and had a smoke of a plant.

That's hardly up with there a drunk driver