Barry Cowen sacked

Snickers Man

I haen;t read through all 500 posts but from the few I've skimmed there's a few things need to be said.

This is bull**** virtue signalling of the highest order.

Drunk driving isn't the issue here. That's NOT what he was disqualified for, by my understanding. The ban was for driving unaccompanied on a learner permit.

He was marginally over the limit. He says he had two pints. That figures. A little time before that would have been within what was then the legal limit and as far as I am concerned IT SHOULD STILL BE. You should be able to go out, have a couple of pints over a few hours and drive home. I did it myself for years. Perfectly legally and unashamedly.

I know some people think this is the equivalent of finding a 10 year old picture of somebody in black face at a Halloween party and as such it should damn someone for ever in the eyes of decent society but I wouldn't give a tuppenny fart for those opinions!!!

Now at the time Mr Cowan was stopped, he WAS over the limit but so slightly that the punishment AT THE TIME was not a ban. it was a fine and penalty points. This was duly administered.
Even the spokesperson for a support group for famiies of road crash victims on the news last night wasn't concerned about the drink driving aspect. That was dealt with and punished appropriately, she said.

So when you strip all the virtue signalling and shape throwing out of the situation we are left with the fact that a 40-something middle class prominent person still hadn't passed his driving test. Why were people in that situation? What advantage is it to persist in driving on a learner permit? Surely there are financial benefits, in terms of lower premiums, to taking your test and getting a full licence?

If there are/were structural reasons why tests are so hard to come by then THAT should be tackled as a priority. I believe that ithe situation is better now and that you don't have to wait for ever to get a test but that wasn't always the case.

BTW, I wouldn't vote for Barry Cowan in a blue fit; still less would I have done so for Clare Daly but both of them have been unfairly maligned, in my view, by hysterical anti drunk or indeed non-drunk driving fanatics.

I disapprove strongly of drunk driving; I don't think driving after two pints of beer, or even a single hot whiskey as was the case with Ms Daly if memory serves, qualifies as that.

BonnieSituation

BattleCorp wrote: »

He drove unaccompanied on a provisional licence. So did I. So did most people over the age of 40 and a good few under 40 too.

He drove unaccompanied on a learner's permit. He was unlicenced as such. And he was drunk.

This is not the same as driving unaccompanied on the second provisional back in the day, which was not illegal.

Just because things were okay once and a blind eye turned to them, does not make them okay.

He got penalty points for breaking the speed limit. So did I. So did an awful lot of people. I think the vast majority of people who drive have broken the speed limit somewhere.

He drove while over the limit and got caught. Fair enough, not everyone does this. But he was punished accordingly and served that punishment.

The rest of this is whataboutery.

Green Peter

Extremely low level of alcohol to get 3 months on a driver permit licence. In years to come the level will probably be zero after a few more Shane Rosses and we will be shocked that anyone even had a wine gum before they drove. There are thousands driving around on prescribed drugs with far more impairment who are probably on here critizing. It's a political point scoring exercise by the media and opposition nothing to do with road safety.

dundalkfc10

Snickers Man wrote: »

I haen;t read through all 500 posts but from the few I've skimmed there's a few things need to be said.

This is bull**** virtue signalling of the highest order.

Drunk driving isn't the issue here. That's NOT what he was disqualified for, by my understanding. The ban was for driving unaccompanied on a learner permit.

He was marginally over the limit. He says he had two pints. That figures. A little time before that would have been within what was then the legal limit and as far as I am concerned IT SHOULD STILL BE. You should be able to go out, have a couple of pints over a few hours and drive home. I did it myself for years. Perfectly legally and unashamedly.

I know some people think this is the equivalent of finding a 10 year old picture of somebody in black face at a Halloween party and as such it should damn someone for ever in the eyes of decent society but I wouldn't give a tuppenny fart for those opinions!!!

Now at the time Mr Cowan was stopped, he WAS over the limit but so slightly that the punishment AT THE TIME was not a ban. it was a fine and penalty points. This was duly administered.
Even the spokesperson for a support group for famiies of road crash victims on the news last night wasn't concerned about the drink driving aspect. That was dealt with and punished appropriately, she said.

So when you strip all the virtue signalling and shape throwing out of the situation we are left with the fact that a 40-something middle class prominent person still hadn't passed his driving test. Why were people in that situation? What advantage is it to persist in driving on a learner permit? Surely there are financial benefits, in terms of lower premiums, to taking your test and getting a full licence?

If there are/were structural reasons why tests are so hard to come by then THAT should be tackled as a priority. I believe that ithe situation is better now and that you don't have to wait for ever to get a test but that wasn't always the case.

BTW, I wouldn't vote for Barry Cowan in a blue fit; still less would I have done so for Clare Daly but both of them have been unfairly maligned, in my view, by hysterical anti drunk or indeed non-drunk driving fanatics.

I disapprove strongly of drunk driving; I don't think driving after two pints of beer, or even a single hot whiskey as was the case with Ms Daly if memory serves, qualifies as that.

You must be smoking a lot of weed and not drinking much

BonnieSituation

BattleCorp wrote: »

I don't tell my boss in work that I have penalty points nor do I tell them about my financial statement as they aren't relevant to the work I do.

I get that if someone is bankrupt they can't be a TD but that's different. That would have to be disclosed but if you weren't in that situation, why would you have to tell your boss about your financial affairs?

Also, having a drink driving conviction in your past isn't something you necessarily have to disclose to your employer unless you are driving a company vehicle.

But you're not a minister and your boss isn't the Taoiseach.

Different standards are at play.

The other argument is that your boss already knew about the transgression and didn't care. Which is hardly better eh?

BonnieSituation

BattleCorp wrote: »

I don't subscribe to that.

They are people, the same as the rest of us. They just chose a job that requires a lot of publicity. They aren't any more saintly than the rest of us.

It wouldn't be atypical for a Fianna Fáil supporter to have differing and lower standards for their politicians i guess.

marieholmfan

Well he's Ber Cowen's son and Brian Cowen's brother ; so he hasn't "done better".

Shefwedfan wrote: »

It is usual Ireland, people hate seeing someone do better. Anyone gets a bit further in life and you have the "I will take then down a peg or two"

Who else benefits? FG won't get an FF ministry , the Greens won't get agriculture and there's no election for a couple of years.
It was definitely someone in FF.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

We will never find out who it came from, Cowen is well liked in FF so I doubt it was from the party.

The Raging Bile Duct

Has this been named Cowengate yet? The media are definitely milking it...

walshb

Snickers Man wrote: »

I disapprove strongly of drunk driving; I don't think driving after two pints of beer, or even a single hot whiskey as was the case with Ms Daly if memory serves, qualifies as that.

Aren't you great.

Drink driving, sure what's the problem.......?

Drunk driving is the real issue.....

So, maybe being a wee bit tipsy is not big deal to you....

I bet it would be a real big deal to the people you could kill and the families you could destroy with this horrendous attitude.

Alcohol impairs judgment.....that is all anyone needs to know if deciding to get behind the wheel of a car...

Your attitude here on this topic is disgraceful

Cute Hoor

Snickers Man wrote: »

Drunk driving isn't the issue here. That's NOT what he was disqualified for, by my understanding. The ban was for driving unaccompanied on a learner permit.

I didn't read past this...... he was banned for being over the limit

Auguste Comte

Snickers Man wrote: »

Drunk driving isn't the issue here. That's NOT what he was disqualified for, by my understanding. The ban was for driving unaccompanied on a learner permit.

The issue is that we have a minister in government who has shown a cavalier attitude to the law and complet lack of respect for his fellow citizens.

How long for and how often did he illegally operate a vehicle.

He's a criminal, and he's a minister, FFG the worst of both worlds.

padd b1975

expectationlost wrote: »

Barry Cowen fined for speeding as learner before drink driving ban https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/barry-cowen-fined-for-speeding-as-learner-before-drink-driving-ban-39346476.html

Which is basically a continuation of the M4 motorway....

BonnieSituation

chicorytip wrote: »

Will he fall on his sword?

Of course not. Cmon. This is Fianna Fáil.

BonnieSituation

Cute Hoor wrote: »

Cowen is a smart lad (or at least appears to be), when he was caught he should have come out with his hands up, put it all on the table, and try to kill it in one go. None of the bullsh1t about having 2 drinks at least 5 hours before he was stopped. Now he's got journos feverishly rummaging in the trash can. Who sang?

It's always the cover up that trips people up. Always.

Allinall

BonnieSituation wrote: »

He drove unaccompanied on a learner's permit. He was unlicenced as such. And he was drunk.

This is not the same as driving unaccompanied on the second provisional back in the day, which was not illegal.

Just because things were okay once and a blind eye turned to them, does not make them okay.

[Quite]He got penalty points for breaking the speed limit. So did I. So did an awful lot of people. I think the vast majority of people who drive have broken the speed limit somewhere.

He drove while over the limit and got caught. Fair enough, not everyone does this. But he was punished accordingly and served that punishment.

The rest of this is whataboutery.[/QUOTE]

Where is the evidence that he was drunk?

BonnieSituation

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Touched a nerve I see....

I love how you haven't refuted anything else being said.

Yup, it's me who's had a nerve touched. Gas.

Shefwedfan

marieholmfan wrote: »

Well he's Ber Cowen's son and Brian Cowen's brother ; so he hasn't "done better".



Who else benefits? FG won't get an FF ministry , the Greens won't get agriculture and there's no election for a couple of years.
It was definitely someone in FF.

So please tell me who it was? You seem to know

Snickers Man

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

You must be smoking a lot of weed and not drinking much

Never tough the stuff. In my experience it's nothing but a speech-to-bull**** converter.

Maybe I should repost my opinion on the "Unpopular opinions you hold" thread elsewhere on this site.

I know I'm right.

Shefwedfan

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I love how you haven't refuted anything else being said.

Yup, it's me who's had a nerve touched. Gas.

I didn’t read any of them, once I seen you had quoted every post I knew it was a rant

Cute Hoor

BonnieSituation wrote: »

It's always the cover up that trips people up. Always.

100%

Snickers Man

Cute Hoor wrote: »

I didn't read past this...... he was banned for being over the limit

No he wasn't. You weren't banned for being that far (ie not very) over the limit at the time.

Cute Hoor

Snickers Man wrote: »

No he wasn't. You weren't banned for being that far (ie not very) over the limit at the time.

Need to read it again
https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/barry-cowen-due-to-address-dail-over-drink-driving-ban-1009633.html

McMurphy

Snickers Man wrote: »

No he wasn't. You weren't banned for being that far (ie not very) over the limit at the time.

He was banned for being over the limit. He even has a long winded tale on how he ended up being over it.

Although it seemed a bit far fetched to most.

2 drinks before the all Ireland final.

Something to eat after the match, and then drove home.

Shefwedfan

McMurphy wrote: »

He was banned for being over the limit. He even has a long winded tale on how he ended up being over it.

Although it seemed a bit far fetched to most.

2 drinks before the all Ireland final.

Something to eat after the match, and then drove home.

Please provide your alternative with proof? thanks......

Feisar

walshb wrote: »

Aren't you great.

Drink driving, sure what's the problem.......?

Drunk driving is the real issue.....

So, maybe being a wee bit tipsy is not big deal to you....

I bet it would be a real big deal to the people you could kill and the families you could destroy with this horrendous attitude.

Alcohol impairs judgment.....that is all anyone needs to know if deciding to get behind the wheel of a car...

Your attitude here on this topic is disgraceful

I take issue with this in that being a wee bit tipsy was not a big deal to any of us not so long ago. While I fully except attitudes change over time they don't change that quickly. Two pints went from "drive on" to "step out of the car please" with the stroke of a pen. People who would have been waved on a week ago* are now demonized. Then the virtue signalers are out in force. The limit is the limit and the law is the law, no issue with it at all. However anyone who has drove tired has no right to pontificate about someone who got caught after having two pints.

*I know the law didn't change a week ago.

marieholmfan

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Please provide your alternative with proof? thanks......

Proof! What proof has Cowen provided!
Why would anyone believe him?

Shefwedfan

marieholmfan wrote: »

Proof! What proof has Cowen provided!
Why would anyone believe him?

You said you knew it was someone in FF that released the story, so who in FF?

McMurphy

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Please provide your alternative with proof? thanks......

Alternative what?

I'm not saying Barry Cowen is lying, I just think his excuse is far fetched.

Unless of course by "2 X drinks" Barry meant two naggins, and by "something to eat afterwards" he meant a bag of tayto?

Yeah, I think he perhaps is being careless with the truth.

This thread is really not the hill you should choose to die on tbh.

marieholmfan

Shefwedfan wrote: »

You said you knew it was someone in FF that released the story, so who in FF?

Just answer the question . Why should we believe Barry Cowen?

marieholmfan

Shefwedfan wrote: »

So please tell me who it was? You seem to know

Why would I tell you?