Barry Cowen sacked

Bass Reeves

Zebra3 wrote: »

Can you give us a source for these "facts"?

It all in the public domain at present I have just posted the facts as I have seen them published.

McMurphy

expectationlost wrote: »

did they or did they say they heard about it...

Yep.

manonboard wrote: »

It was in the paper at the time. Nobody cared because it doesn't matter.

He was done 4 years ago? How long should someone who did drink driving at the lower end of the scale be barred from serving their country? What if they are good at their job? Does society gain or lose?

What if they are a normal human being who makes mistakes and also are punished equally like the rest of us? Is that not a wonderful example of our society? Being treated equally even when you have power is a good thing, not a bad thing.

expectationlost

manonboard wrote: »

It was in the paper at the time.

which paper?

Zebra3

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It all in the public domain at present I have just posted the facts as I have seen them published.

Are these "facts" provided by AGS or Cowen the law breaker?

Bass Reeves

McMurphy wrote: »

Because the virus gives a shIt the cause of, or the reason for either of the two mass gatherings?

Both the mourners at the Garda funeral and that of Storey's funeral were wrong in breaking the health guidelines. Trying to excuse one over the other is a load of nonsense tbh.

There wasn't a word about Horkans funeral until certain politicians and the media tried to score points of the mourners at the Sinn Fein funeral though.

There are a few different issues here, first was it right to hold a state funeral for Garda Horken and the answer is yes. Did the states politicians try to minimise there attendance yes they did. In the he process and carrying out a state funeral social distancing is not totally possible.

The next question were ordinary people incorrect in the way they attended yes. But that is outside the scope of the government and politicians. That is totally different to a deputy first minister and the leader of the party attending along with a large portion of the elected party members and former elected members going to a funeral of a former terrorist who died s natural death

Cal4567 wrote: »

Both were wrong. Social distancing was not evident in both situations. To separate the two, is just blatant hypocrisy. We need to look at both, without emotion, with a clinical detachment.

That may be tough for some but may be easier for me. I have an audit background.

I think there is a suttle difference between the funeral of a member of a police force murdered in the line of duty and the funeral of a former terrorist who live ended naturally. That difference is further highlighted by the fact that the terrorist was a member of an organisation that was directly involved in the murder of over 10 members of that police force.

It was interesting that the SF members taught it necessary to attend the funeral of this terrorist but none taught it necessary to attend the funeral of a member of the police force who duty it is to protect them as citizens of the state.

So you can audit that now

expectationlost

can we not turn this into another thread about funerals and social distancing and SF?

Bass Reeves

expectationlost wrote: »

can we not discuss the funeral in here?

Fair enough I will comment on it no further but I am fair annoyed by SF apologists making a comparison with it to excuse the misbehaviour of there politicians

James Brown

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Fair enough I will comment on it no further but I am fair annoyed by SF apologists making a comparison with it to excuse the misbehaviour of there politicians

You just posted a long winded apologist post on behalf of the Garda. Both wrong for the same reasons. No social distancing.
To bring it back to Cowen, another example of a biased media IMO when you compare Clare Daly's treatment to Cowen's lack of reporting

Whestsidestory

Interesting to see all the media coverage about this and not a word about the new Minister for Children's endorsement of Peter Thatchell

lawrencesummers

ruwithme wrote: »

Fianna fail party handbook of rules?? doubt such a thing exists.

If it did it wouldn’t be a book.
Maybe the back of a stamp.
At most.

Gregor Samsa

When you do a Google search for “Barry Cowen Drink Drive”, aside from the numerous media results from today and yesterday, it says

“Some results may have been removed under data protection law in Europe.”

Any chance the media reporting from the time has been removed from Google’s search results?

That said, as he was punished by the law for his actions, I don’t see why any other action should be taken against him, unless he’s broken a FF party rule by not reporting it.

McMurphy

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Fair enough I will comment on it no further but I am fair annoyed by SF apologists making a comparison with it to excuse the misbehaviour of there politicians

"SF apologists" are dam right to make comparisons, I have already explained to you that the health measures that were put in place was due to a pandemic, a virus that spreads extraordinarily easily between humans.

This virus doesn't care if you are a FF voter, FG voter or SF voter, it only wants fresh human hosts to attach itself to, multiply itself and try and spread to others via fresh hosts.

Garda Horkans funeral had a sizeable congregation of aforementioned human hosts who were not socially distancing, therefore not following the govt and health experts guidelines, and potentially putting themselves at risk to catching and further spreading the virus.

In the days afterwards there was not a mention of the protocol being broken, by politicians from any party, not from the media, and not on these boards. A blind eye was essentially turned.

Bobby Storey's funeral also had the same protocols being broken, people weren't socially distancing at times, and therefore as human hosts, potentially contracting and spreading the virus.

Immediately afterwards this was seized upon by rival politician (especially FG and the DUP) Whom lacked the gumption and hindsight to realise their hypocrisy in failing to recognise that both sets of mourners had broke protocol, both were wrong and had the potential to catch and further spread the virus.

You have once again tried to do what others have also tried to do before you, and that is to politicise the funerals, and in doing so politicise a virus.

Which brings me back full circle. The virus doesn't give a shyte where it's human hosts politcal allegiance lies, hence why it is monumentally stupid and ludicrous to try and ridicule one set of rule breakers and go on to excuse the other.

It's really not hard to grasp.

Hurrache

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Where did you get the “few pints”? He had 2 DRINKS BEFORE the match. A meal afterwards. How many hours had elapsed between last drink and him sitting into his car?

Not excusing drinking and driving, but let’s get a grip. It was FOUR years ago. He took his punishment. He’s learned a lesson. End of story.

He had enough alcohol to push him over the limit hours later, I'm a lightweight and 2 pints wouldn't push me over the limit

It took him until well into his 40s to learn a lesson about drink driving? He's a bit slow isn't he.

lawrencesummers

I think the worst part of the story is that he was at the All Ireland final and a ticket for a Dublin - Mayo game was wasted on a lad from Offaly.


Well, that’s not true, the fact that an Supposedly intelligent Adult who has responsibility for a large government portfolio doesn’t know the dangers of driving after alcohol is the worst part, but it’s still a waste of an all Ireland ticket.

Jimi H

A few people talking about the 20 mg limit as if it's an excuse. Here he is agreeing to the reduction.

The key to maintaining the emphasis on driver behaviour is to continuously seek to change and improve that behaviour. Part 2 of the Road Traffic Act 2010, which was signed into law last year, reduces the blood alcohol concentration levels for drivers from 80 mg to 50 mg and to 20 mg for learner drivers. There is provision for mandatory breath testing on the basis of an opinion being formed by the garda at the scene. As other Members have mentioned, in the case of an accident such mandatory breath testing is paramount. Even in a hospital a consent to that being carried out can be given by the doctor in charge, which is to be commended. These sections 9 and 14 now come into play but, due to testing, the equipment involved will not be ready until later this year. I commend the Minister for coming forward at this early stage to provide the legal basis for such testing of drivers.

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/2011-03-23/27/?highlight%5B0%5D=barry&highlight%5B1%5D=cowen&highlight%5B2%5D=drive

Jim Root

The Phantom Jipper wrote: »

Something about this is not sitting quite right with me. He's a public representative, he should be held to a higher standard than the average Joe working a 9-5. He put himself on the road in a condition where he was more likely to kill people and the electorate never had an opportunity at the time to have their say, because it was seemingly brushed under the rug. Personally, someone who has just been done for drink driving isn't fit to be a councillor or a TD.

Totally agree. Public officials should leading by example, not breaking laws.

TheRiverman

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Common enough where he's from no doubt he's been at it for years. Lucky now he has a driver to chauffeur him around while he can sup away in the back.

I am open to correction,but I think only the Taoiseach and Tanaiste have chauffeur driven cars.

marieholmfan

eviltwin wrote: »

I think you might has misread my post. I have no desire to see him lose his job and think he’s entitled to move on from this

No one who has a learners permit at 48 should be a government minister. He is clearly the idiot brother (well maybe not any more ).

marieholmfan

Hurrache wrote: »

He had enough alcohol to push him over the limit hours later, I'm a lightweight and 2 pints wouldn't push me over the limit

It took him until well into his 40s to learn a lesson about drink driving? He's a bit slow isn't he.

He used to be the family idiot!

Water John

marieholmfan wrote: »

No one who has a learners permit at 48 should be a government minister. He is clearly the idiot brother (well maybe not any more ).

This sort of comment is just stupid or smart alec. No opinion on Barry Cowen but I know a few people who never learned to drive. some due to nervousness, others because of some negative experience whilst they were learning.

freshpopcorn

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Fairly big story was it reported in the press at the time?

If not why not?

From my understanding he got points and a 3 month ban and a fine. Isn't it similar to people who get caught speeding and receive a fixed charge notice. It didn't go to court so it wouldn't be in the courts or paper.

freshpopcorn

The Phantom Jipper wrote: »

Something about this is not sitting quite right with me. He's a public representative, he should be held to a higher standard than the average Joe working a 9-5. He put himself on the road in a condition where he was more likely to kill people and the electorate never had an opportunity at the time to have their say, because it was seemingly brushed under the rug. Personally, someone who has just been done for drink driving isn't fit to be a councillor or a TD.

I think the public will happily vote for a drink driver tough.This guy topped the poll in my area and was four times over the limit and Since then he went onto verbally abuse a Garda. So, I don't think it really matters.

https://www.thecork.ie/2014/12/11/video-exclusive-4-times-over-the-limit-drink-driving-ban-for-sinn-fein-cork-cllr/

chicorytip

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

Hardly counts as a criminal matter though.

He is lucky not to have crashed and possibly killed somebody, in that case.

walshb

osarusan wrote: »

Would a TD not have some obligation to notify their party of this kind of thing?

Either way, unlikely that Micheal Martin really was unaware until now.

Surprised it was not news at the time anyway.

This is the crux of the matter.

Cowen clearly cannot be trusted.

FF are historically the largest political party on this island.

Cowen is not some average joe. He is a politician. Convicted of a serious offence in my view, and yet he didn’t disclose this to the party it seems?

How can Martin stand over this? And did he know? If so, and he is saying he did not, then he has to go.

We need to strive for actual standards in public office.

This is not some personal insignificant issue. It’s serious. Drink driving kills. Destroys...

He is guilty of drink driving, and not only did we not know, but his own political party seemed to have not known..

Any party and party leader with any scruples, standards and morals could not ever tolerate this..

AndrewJRenko

McMurphy wrote: »

Which might inadvertently open up a whole new can of worms for him.

How long was he on a learners permit?
Was he accompanied by a full license holder at the time?

And did the accompanying driver have a responsibility to make sure he was fit to drive?

If he was over the limit at the end of the journey, what state was he in at the start of the journey - 90 minutes earlier on a good day.

tdf7187

I am surprised there is even a level of drink driving which 'attracts' only a three month ban. What level was he caught at? edit: sorry, I see this question was answered in thread.

StackSteevens

TheRiverman wrote: »

I am open to correction,but I think only the Taoiseach and Tanaiste have chauffeur driven cars.

Yep. All of the others must supply their own car and driver and can claim motoring expenses and drivers' wages from the taxpayer.

Presumably Eamon Ryan employs a man with a red flag to run in front of his bicycle while ringing a bell very loudly.

expectationlost

Water John wrote: »

This sort of comment is just stupid or smart alec. No opinion on Barry Cowen but I know a few people who never learned to drive. some due to nervousness, others because of some negative experience whilst they were learning.

did they live a rural area, have a job?

wrangler

expectationlost wrote: »

did they live a rural area, have a job?

A neighbour here who is a pub owner never drove, often walks home (2 miles) at 4 or 5am after cleaning up

gordongekko

eviltwin wrote: »

It was 4 years ago. People make mistakes and if he has learnt from it and changed his behaviour then it’s time to move on.

Yeah sure FF are the party of change. Haughey, Aherne, imf, Tribunals , Galway tent etc sure those members clearly change and never repeat mistakes.

expectationlost

wrangler wrote: »

A neighbour here who is a pub owner never drove, often walks home (2 miles) at 4 or 5am after cleaning up

so he lives incredible close to his work

did his parents own the pub?


Cowen is auctioneer/valuer, Councillor, running a greyhound stadium and TD...

wrangler

expectationlost wrote: »

so he lives incredible close to his work

did his parents own the pub?


Cowen is auctioneer valuer, Councillor, running a greyhound stadium and TD...

Yea, he's about 70 now just retired, still does a bit.
Took over the pub in his early 20s when his father died

The Tetrarch

marieholmfan wrote: »

No one who has a learners permit at 48 should be a government minister. He is clearly the idiot brother (well maybe not any more ).

How many learner permits did Barry Cowan have by the time he reached the fine age of 48?
Has he passed his test since and does he now hold a full licence?
Was he accompanied by a qualified driver when he was over the alcohol limit, and was the qualified driver tested for alcohol?
As the Minister for Agriculture and the Marine does he know the driving licence category for a tractor?
Why does a motorcyclist have to be 24 to have a licence, but you only have to be 16 (a Twitter video show-off idiot) for a tractor licence?

As an Offaly born man myself, I like to ask questions about our glorious leaders.

KaneToad

eviltwin wrote: »

It was 4 years ago. People make mistakes and if he has learnt from it and changed his behaviour then it’s time to move on.

Would he continue to have made this 'mistake' were he not caught?
Was this the only time he ever drove while drunk?

And driving on a provisional licence at the time.

The reason that this is a big deal for some people is that it shows very poor judgement and a disregard for others and the law. Not what you want for someone appointed into high office in the country. Are these traits of poor judgement and lack of regard for others/law confined to his approach to driving while drunk or do they extend into other facets of his professional/political life?

walshb

KaneToad wrote: »

Would he continue to have made this 'mistake' were he not caught?
Was this the only time he ever drove while drunk?

And driving on a provisional licence at the time.

The reason that this is a big deal for some people is that it shows very poor judgement and a disregard for others and the law. Not what you want for someone appointed into high office in the country. Are these traits of poor judgement and lack of regard for others/law confined to his approach to driving while drunk or do they extend into other facets of his professional/political life?

Can we stop stating as fact that the man was “drunk” driving..

We do not know this...

The offence is not drunk driving..

Koolguy

KaneToad wrote: »

Would he continue to have made this 'mistake' were he not caught?
Was this the only time he ever drove while drunk?

And driving on a provisional licence at the time.

The reason that this is a big deal for some people is that it shows very poor judgement and a disregard for others and the law. Not what you want for someone appointed into high office in the country. Are these traits of poor judgement and lack of regard for others/law confined to his approach to driving while drunk or do they extend into other facets of his professional/political life?

Yawn

walshb

Koolguy wrote: »

Yawn

Exactly what is wrong with society is this post..

feargale

hotmail.com wrote: »

Does anyone believe that this was his only time to ever drink drive?

Do tell us, please.

freshpopcorn

KaneToad wrote: »

Would he continue to have made this 'mistake' were he not caught?
Was this the only time he ever drove while drunk?

And driving on a provisional licence at the time.

The reason that this is a big deal for some people is that it shows very poor judgement and a disregard for others and the law. Not what you want for someone appointed into high office in the country. Are these traits of poor judgement and lack of regard for others/law confined to his approach to driving while drunk or do they extend into other facets of his professional/political life?

My local SF TD got caught drink driving and he was three or four times over the limit another time he verbally abused a Garda.
People don't seem to care about these thing from my experience because of this.
Getting caught drink driving and having a disregard for the Law would make me question somebody but clearly it's an unpopular opinion seeing the guy I mentioned topped the poll in my area.

ebbsy

Delighted this news came out.

feargale

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Common enough where he's from no doubt he's been at it for years. Lucky now he has a driver to chauffeur him around while he can sup away in the back.

Yes I suppose if he's an Offalyman he must have done it before. They shouldn't be allowed into the Dáil at all. Tell us what you know. Don't keep us in the dark about him.

Jim Root

feargale wrote: »

Yes I suppose if he's an Offalyman he must have done it before. They shouldn't be allowed into the Dáil at all. Tell us what you know. Don't keep us in the dark about him.

Fierce unlucky to be caught on your first rodeo drink driving

y0ssar1an22

Remind me wrote: »

It was 4 years ago and dealt with at the time. It wasn't brushed under the rug.

Of the media are sitting on it since then it shows how s**ty the media have gone.

While I am completely against anyone who drink drives I think Barry Cowen and FF in general have given plenty of reasons for the public to have had their say.

would he have been voted in if the people knew the truth?

of course we'll never know, but the public should know if they are electing a criminal.

expectationlost

so Barry Cowen was a provisional

McCrack

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

would he have been voted in if the people knew the truth?

of course we'll never know, but the public should know if they are electing a criminal.

Youre incorrect

He received a fixed charge penalty notice which is not a criminal conviction, he was not convicted of any offence in a court

y0ssar1an22

McCrack wrote: »

Youre incorrect

He received a fixed charge penalty notice which is not a criminal conviction, he was not convicted of any offence in a court

if i called him a criminal on the LLS could he sue me for slander?

maestroamado

I have little interest in this but...
Michael Martin shafted Brian Cowan when he was leader, totally disloyal.
Now MM the boss so guilt payback.
For me he simply hasn't got what needed in leader...

Galwayguy35

freshpopcorn wrote: »

My local SF TD got caught drink driving and he was three or four times over the limit another time he verbally abused a Garda.
People don't seem to care about these thing from my experience because of this.
Getting caught drink driving and having a disregard for the Law would make me question somebody but clearly it's an unpopular opinion seeing the guy I mentioned topped the poll in my area.

Who was it?

freshpopcorn

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Who was it?

Pat Buckley.

https://www.thecork.ie/2014/12/11/video-exclusive-4-times-over-the-limit-drink-driving-ban-for-sinn-fein-cork-cllr/

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/sinn-fein-td-pat-buckley-13555691

NovemberWren

maestroamado wrote: »

I have little interest in this but...
Michael Martin shafted Brian Cowan when he was leader, totally disloyal.
Now MM the boss so guilt payback.
For me he simply hasn't got what needed in leader...

agree, - about M.M. Brian Cowan, one of the very best of F.F. and hope barry will survive f.f. with m.m. overseeing it.

Not! being a f.f. fan; - I have not barely read this thread; - as the most disingenuous thing now about the f.f. and Dept. of Agriculture is:-

Barry has just now, instantly, pulled down E1.5 billion for the [already] wealthy farmers, in reps scheme payments; Plus E50 million in Beef scheme payments.

This F.F. government is instantly intent on Locking-In the Wealth - of the already Wealthy.

And the odd crusts to the rest of us.