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Barry Cowen sacked

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    #1112
    Cute Hoor
    Registered Users Posts: 1,788 ✭✭✭Cute Hoor


    hotmail.com wrote: »
    He said last night that he had 2 drinks and then are a meal and watched the match. At that point he drove home. So how would he still fail a test?

    Surely no one believes he only drank 2 drinks?

    Shefwedfan does..... Well at least I think he/she does


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    #1113
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Yeah and one question that stood out was her asking what happened his penalty points for the two speeding incidents prior to this drink driving one. You are only allowed 7 points on a learner permit and he got 5 in court and presumably 3 for the other offense he didnt contest in court. So thats 8 points but he was still on the road.

    Theres a well known trick where you show up to court but leave your licence at home meaning the RSA has no way of assigning the points to your license. Its an absolutely insane situation. Id be wondering did Cowen pull this trick.

    Looks like FF are trying to sweep this under the carpet but there are lots of unanswered questions. Would expect more revelations in this Sunday newspapers because Cowen hasnt dealt with the matter satisfactorily at all.

    This possibility will have journalists digging like pigs for truffles I reckon. Surely this information will be readily available for those prepared to dig deep enough?

    On the face of it, Cowen made a stupid (but intentional) decision to drive home after having a sup or two.

    Unfortunately he's left a lot more questions than answers though.


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    #1114
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    A huge difference from being slightly over the limit and driving drunk. The latter is just an outright lie. Both are wrong but one is much worse than the other. Note to self - can't believe I'm defending a FF minister.

    There's not. He drove drunk.

    The standards are clear. There's no "only slightly tipsy" driving.


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    #1115
    xl500
    Registered Users Posts: 879 ✭✭✭xl500


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    i'm aware of what fraud is, thanks. not paying a bill doesn't quite reach that standard

    "Fraud is where a person is financially cheated by another person "

    What would you call stiffing a small business for 8600 Euro


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    #1116
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    Sam Quentin wrote: »
    This is a witch hunt a sneaky,sneary witch hunt. The poor fella may as well step-down and go foraging in the forest for food and get a good fishing rod and go fishing also.. it's desperate,.he has apologised,he didn't kill anyone..and he's not responsible for all the drink driving,Learner permit injuries and deaths on Irish roads. Reminds me of bullying on social media among teenagers. Some people are so nasty.

    Ah yes. He passed the "didn't kill anyone" test. He's grand so.


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    #1117
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,467 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    xl500 wrote: »
    "Fraud is where a person is financially cheated by another person "

    What would you call stiffing a small business for 8600 Euro

    is every business that goes bankrupt committing fraud then? thats a pretty wide definition.


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    #1118
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Sam Quentin wrote: »
    This is a witch hunt a sneaky,sneary witch hunt. The poor fella may as well step-down and go foraging in the forest for food and get a good fishing rod and go fishing also.. it's desperate,.he has apologised,he didn't kill anyone..and he's not responsible for all the drink driving,Learner permit injuries and deaths on Irish roads. Reminds me of bullying on social media among teenagers. Some people are so nasty.

    Hardly. It's literally headline news.
    He made it worse with his story. The details don't add up as credible. And likely MM is lying about not knowing IMO.
    These are the problems. The drunk driving was the opener.


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    #1119
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,663 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    hotmail.com wrote: »
    He said last night that he had 2 drinks and then are a meal and watched the match. At that point he drove home. So how would he still fail a test?

    Surely no one believes he only drank 2 drinks?

    Nobody believes the 2 pints story except for the willfully blind. He also said in the Dail last night that this was his first time ever drink driving and remarkably he got caught. He must be the worlds unluckiest drink driver because that is some kind of lottery odds at work right there.
    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    what was the time difference between the two offences?

    This is one of the questions that needs to be answered. He had the court appearance for speeding in Palmerstown in 2015, we dont yet know the date of the other speeding offence. But if it was within 3 years of the 2015 offence then he should have been off the road for the two speeding offences pushing him over the 7 point learner permit level. Which raises questios as to weather he was legally on the road in 2016 when he got caught drunk driving. Were the points put on his license at all, this was around the time that hundreds of people got their penalty points knocked off by Gardai doing them favours, did Cowen avail of this?

    Its pretty clear now that he is being evasive with information. The lady from the Road Victims group said he ignored her questions. Making a speech in the Dail last night was simply grandstanding for the cameras when questions were not allowed (and indeed voted against by FFGG)


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    #1120
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    Snickers Man wrote: »
    I didn't say anything of the kind. He's not in the clear, he WAS guilty of an offence, he WAS punished. End of.

    What irks me is the outraged posers who misrepresent the nature of the offence, liken him to someone who drives while drunk and say that doing what he did is of such low moral behaviour that he should resign from government forthwith.

    That's histrionic, mob-led self-righteous virtue signalling nonsense, in my view.

    And I'm speaking as someone who has never voted FF in his life.

    No one is misrepresenting it. He was driving drunk. End of.

    People are irked because his story doesn't stack up at all.

    Those of us who aren't FFers are capable of independent thought and extrapolating rational explanations from experience and applying it to the mother goose tale he told.

    This is how we came to the conclusion that he's lying. That's the big issue.

    As I've said before, the cover up is always worse than the crime. He could have just come out and owned it but he did the usual brazen FF schnake routine.


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    #1121
    Allinall
    Registered Users Posts: 6,739 ✭✭✭Allinall


    BonnieSituation wrote: »
    There's not. He drove drunk.

    The standards are clear. There's no "only slightly tipsy" driving.

    Still waiting for the evidence that he was drunk.


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    #1122
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    eagle eye wrote: »
    You are right it dies encourage stupid people who can't see the wood from the trees to go on about something so unimportant in the grand scheme of things.
    I want to know what way we are moving forward after the shutdown, I want to know what measures have been put in place to stop something like the children's hospital fiasco from happening again.
    You know important stuff.
    How anybody can be going on about a couple of traffic offenses when Michael Martin is Taoiseach is beyond me. I didn't hear much complaining about him getting that office. A guy that was there for the whole Anglo-Irish thing as a minister and now he gets the top job. There should be protests over that.

    You clearly weren't listening. There's piles of threads on boards where people are disgusted that charlatan is now Taoiseach.


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    #1123
    xl500
    Registered Users Posts: 879 ✭✭✭xl500


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    is every business that goes bankrupt committing fraud then? thats a pretty wide definition.

    He didnt go Bankrupt


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    #1124
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    hotmail.com wrote: »
    He said last night that he had 2 drinks and then are a meal and watched the match. At that point he drove home. So how would he still fail a test?

    Surely no one believes he only drank 2 drinks?

    That we're on the same side here is a miracle! :)

    See, he's bringing people together!

    ---

    But yeah, if you apply some thought to the story, like you and others have, you'll see that it's all bull. But if you're a FFer you'll need photographic evidence in order to disprove his story. He's a good man you see.


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    #1125
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 15,129 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    BonnieSituation wrote: »
    There's not. He drove drunk.

    The standards are clear. There's no "only slightly tipsy" driving.

    This might help to clarify the actual legislation.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2010/act/25/enacted/en/html


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    #1126
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Allinall wrote: »
    Still waiting for the evidence that he was drunk.

    There you are now:
    driving under the influence (redirected from Drunk-driving)
    Also found in: Medical.
    driving under the influence (DUI)
    n. commonly called "drunk driving," it refers to operating a motor vehicle while one's blood alcohol content is above the legal limit set by statute, which supposedly is the level at which a person cannot drive safely.


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    #1127
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    Ae Fond Kiss wrote: »
    You're hoping for you mean.

    Some vengeful posting, he's not a proven murderer, paedophile or has defrauded anyone or the state etc.

    Take away the fact he's from Clara Offaly, who his brother is and what his political party is and would there be half the noise on here.
    If he wasn't Ber Cowen's son and Brian Cowen's brother he wouldn't even be a county councillor.


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    #1128
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    Allinall wrote: »
    Still waiting for the evidence that he was drunk.

    Evidence? He was caught by the guards and summarily punished for drunk driving. Hmmmmmmm... Are you saying unless he was gee-eyed and legless he wasn't drunk driving?


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    #1129
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    Have we found out who the mate in the car was yet?

    I'm presuming they were even drunker than he was as they required a lift from an unqualified driver.

    He also said that he only drive to bring that friend home and wouldn't have otherwise, so it stands to reason he should clear that aspect up too.


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    #1130
    begbysback
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,910 ✭✭✭begbysback


    The man deserves a medal, imagine if he didn’t drink drive 20 years ago, where would the outrage merchants of today get their hit?


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    #1131
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 15,129 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Bowie wrote: »
    There you are now:

    I think that the legislation is framed correctly and just as well.

    It's best that you don't need to be drunk to be considered guilty of an offence.


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    #1132
    Allinall
    Registered Users Posts: 6,739 ✭✭✭Allinall


    BonnieSituation wrote: »
    Evidence? He was caught by the guards and summarily punished for drunk driving. Hmmmmmmm... Are you saying unless he was gee-eyed and legless he wasn't drunk driving?

    He wasn't punished for drunk driving.

    He was punished for driving with an excess of alcohol in his system over a prescribed limit.

    Nowhere in the process was it alleged that he was drunk.

    Only you are making that up.


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    #1133
    smelly sock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,820 ✭✭✭smelly sock


    BonnieSituation wrote: »
    Have we found out who the mate in the car was yet?

    I'm presuming they were even drunker than he was as they required a lift from an unqualified driver.

    He also said that he only drive to bring that friend home and wouldn't have otherwise, so it stands to reason he should clear that aspect up too.

    Exactly.

    Anytime i get in a car as a passenger i always ask to inspect the drivers license. Sure its just the done thing isnt it.


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    #1134
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 56,377 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    BonnieSituation wrote: »
    Evidence? He was caught by the guards and summarily punished for drunk driving. Hmmmmmmm... Are you saying unless he was gee-eyed and legless he wasn't drunk driving?

    Drunk driving is not the same as drink driving

    Not sure why folks are not grasping this...

    The charge/offence is drink driving here....


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    #1135
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    Allinall wrote: »
    He wasn't punished for drunk driving.

    He was punished for driving with an excess of alcohol in his system over a prescribed limit.

    Nowhere in the process was it alleged that he was drunk.

    Only you are making that up.

    "GOTCHA!!!"

    I bet you feel all fuzzy inside. Will you get a medal as well from Mount St for your endeavours?

    How many pins can one poster dance upon at once?

    Is this the level of discourse FFers are only capable of?


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    #1136
    nacho libre
    Registered Users Posts: 16,851 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    hotmail.com wrote: »
    He said last night that he had 2 drinks and then are a meal and watched the match. At that point he drove home. So how would he still fail a test?

    Surely no one believes he only drank 2 drinks?

    He might be telling the truth that he had only two drinks.
    It depends on what the drinks were, and what measures they were. What if he had two large whiskeys? That might explain how he was over the limit after "two drinks"

    It's hard to believe Micheal Martin did not know about this. Also who leaked this, was it someone outraged their constituents were overlooked by Micheal when he was handing out the jobs?


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    #1137
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    smelly sock wrote: »
    Exactly.

    Anytime i get in a car as a passenger i always ask to inspect the drivers license. Sure its just the done thing isnt it.

    Is that the point bring made or is that the point you've been asked to spin by HQ?

    I dunno about you guys. But I rarely get into cars with strangers (bar taxis I guess) and I most always have an idea of the level of driving skill of the person driving me. I also usually know if they're scuttered or not.

    Now I dunno if getting into a random car is a cultural thing for FFers but eh, yeah, it's bit irresponsible to get into a car with someone and be their "accompanying driver" and not knowing if that person has a licence or is indeed drink/drunk driving you home.


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    #1138
    Allinall
    Registered Users Posts: 6,739 ✭✭✭Allinall


    BonnieSituation wrote: »
    "GOTCHA!!!"

    I bet you feel all fuzzy inside. Will you get a medal as well from Mount St for your endeavours?

    How many pins can one poster dance upon at once?

    Is this the level of discourse FFers are only capable of?

    Just don't like to see unsubstantiated claims made about someone.

    That's all.


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    #1139
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    Allinall wrote: »
    Just don't like to see unsubstantiated claims made about someone.

    That's all.

    Right. You condone drink/drunk driving then is it?


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    #1140
    Allinall
    Registered Users Posts: 6,739 ✭✭✭Allinall


    BonnieSituation wrote: »
    Right. You condone drink/drunk driving then is it?

    No.


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    #1141
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    Allinall wrote: »
    No.

    Grand. So you think what he did was reprehensible? And that his story doesn't stack up?


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