Barry Cowen sacked

bocaman

Find it hard to believe that a middle ages politician living in rural Ireland only had a learners licence. Fishy.

Galwayguy35

bocaman wrote: »

Find it hard to believe that a middle ages politician living in rural Ireland only had a learners licence. Fishy.

Maybe he let the license run out, happened to someone I know and they left it too long to renew and had to re do the test.

Whats fishy about it?

WishUWereHere

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Maybe he let the license run out, happened to someone I know and they left it too long to renew and had to re do the test.

Whats fishy about it?

Well, I think it IS fishy. AFAIK Cowan never had a ministerial car with a driver, so surely every week, the bloke had to go to Kildare Street on political business, then how did he get there?

Jim Root

Queasy Tadpole wrote: »

Why is this even news?

The man was caught slightly over, 4 years ago... who cares.

It’s news because he was just appointed a minister. Pretty obvious

AndrewJRenko

Darc19 wrote: »

Looks like no one here has checked the facts.

1. He had a provisional license (eejit)

2. His blood/alcohol limit was between 10&35mg

3. He accepted the option of an on the spot 3 months ban and €200 fine.

4. If he had a full license he would have been waved on.


So because he is an eejit and couldn't be arsed taking a driving test, he got the ban as the limits for learners at that time was 35mg/100. (it's now 20mg)

As for Clare daly, she would have been charged if the 2016 limit applied at the time she was stopped. And remember that she was "unable" to blow into the breathalyzer and wanted a doctor to take a blood sample, but eventually (almost 2 hours later) she gave a urine sample which was 30% below the limit.

Let's not forget fact 5 - that he was caught at the end of a journey that we about 90 minutes on a good day, and more on an All-Ireland day.

What state was he in at the start of the journe?

Darc19

McMurphy wrote: »

Let me clarify for you, the difference in how the two were treated was startling. One TDs brush with the law was released to the press while still within Gardai custody.

The other TD enjoyed the full discretion they were entitled to, and Daly should quite rightfully have expected.

If you are arrested, that arrest is in the public domain.

As for the results of her urine test - it was Daly that published them herself.


It was over 2 hours from her stop to her release, yet she was just 30% under the limit.

Two hours are enough for a body to process 60mg alcohol.

Do the math.

She played the system. (as many would do and nothing wrong with it)

AndrewJRenko

WishUWereHere wrote: »

Well, I think it IS fishy. AFAIK Cowan never had a ministerial car with a driver, so surely every week, the bloke had to go to Kildare Street on political business, then how did he get there?

On The Week In Politics today, he admitted that he has driven unaccompanied in the past.

Happy4all

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Maybe he let the license run out, happened to someone I know and they left it too long to renew and had to re do the test.

Whats fishy about it?

Just a general point on rules.if I have been charged with a drink driving offence I would lose my licence? And eventually after a period of time by allowed to drive but required to retake test and as such be put back to learner status?

walshb

All this nonsense about limits, amount of drink, licences etc

Simple: a man in a highly influential position in society, who should be setting standards and examples, chose to get behind the wheel of a car after having ingested alcohol....this is the issue. And the man should not hold a position in government here..

expectationlost

Fionnann Sheehan said he was with a friend on the radio https://ift.tt/2YVC6eO .mp3

Darc19

Happy4all wrote: »

Just a general point on rules.if I have been charged with a drink driving offence I would lose my licence? And eventually after a period of time by allowed to drive but required to retake test and as such be put back to learner status?

Depends on when you were arrested, the license you hold, the vehicle you are driving and the alcohol reading.

Bus or truck driver over 20mg/100ml
Car driver over 50mg

Before the recent law changes a reading just above got you points and a fine.

No going back to being a learner

expectationlost

Cowen refers to when the legislation was brought in he rectified his licence https://twitter.com/rtetwip/status/1279734892016947202 which legislation and when was it brought in? he's not talking about the 2018 legislation is he? he didn't only get licence 2 years after this?

Darc19

walshb wrote: »

All this nonsense about limits, amount of drink, licences etc

Simple: a man in a highly influential position in society, who should be setting standards and examples, chose to get behind the wheel of a car after having ingested alcohol....this is the issue. And the man should not hold a position in government here..

2016 he was a small town td in a party that was not in government. Hardly influential

And there is nothing to say that you cannot drive after having alcohol no matter who you are. It's the level of alcohol.

If he held a full driving license, he would have been under the limit and allowed proceed.


Personally I think the bigger story is that he held a provisional license for many years and someone who is that much of an eejit should not be a minister.

James Brown

Darc19 wrote: »

Looks like no one here has checked the facts.

1. He had a provisional license (eejit)

2. His blood/alcohol limit was between 10&35mg

3. He accepted the option of an on the spot 3 months ban and €200 fine.

4. If he had a full license he would have been waved on.


So because he is an eejit and couldn't be arsed taking a driving test, he got the ban as the limits for learners at that time was 35mg/100. (it's now 20mg)

As for Clare daly, she would have been charged if the 2016 limit applied at the time she was stopped. And remember that she was "unable" to blow into the breathalyzer and wanted a doctor to take a blood sample, but eventually (almost 2 hours later) she gave a urine sample which was 30% below the limit.

You keep doing a which was worse. Playing down what Cowen got done for. That's not why we are making the comparison. This has been explained to you.
The papers likely buried Cowens story and hammered Daly. While Daly was doing a great job IMO. Also it's not believable that MM didnt know. That's the interesting parts.

walshb

Darc19 wrote: »

2016 he was a small town td in a party that was not in government. Hardly influential

And there is nothing to say that you cannot drive after having alcohol no matter who you are. It's the level of alcohol.

If he held a full driving license, he would have been under the limit and allowed proceed.


Personally I think the bigger story is that he held a provisional license for many years and someone who is that much of an eejit should not be a minister.

Ok, so just because he wasn’t in government means he is not a highly influential person?

He is a party member of a very influential party in Ireland.

chicorytip

This fellah was a FF junior minister in 2005 when arrested after driving the wrong way on a dual carriageway whilst three times over the drink driving limit. Kept his job!!

freshpopcorn

Bowie wrote: »

You keep doing a which was worse. Playing down what Cowen got done for. That's not why we are making the comparison. This has been explained to you.
The papers likely buried Cowens story and hammered Daly. While Daly was doing a great job IMO. Also it's not believable that MM didnt know. That's the interesting parts.

Can I ask you a question how would the papers would have found out about Cowen if the Gardai didn't leak it?

I've known the odd person who got caught drink driving and they didn't tell there boss or employer and barely told there families.
He had a three month ban and how was his Dail attendance during this time. TD's Dail attendance aren't good most of the time.
I doubt MM sits in the Dail carpark and watch those who arrive by car and walk in and if they walk in he questions them about it.

Homelander

Bowie wrote: »

The papers likely buried Cowens story and hammered Daly. While Daly was doing a great job IMO. Also it's not believable that MM didnt know. That's the interesting parts.

Yes. Every news organisation in Ireland sit around a UN style round-table and decide who gets a free pass and who doesn't.

Have an ounce of sense. Nothing was buried.

The papers would've run with the story had they known, unless you're suggesting powerful forces at work convinced every media outlet in the country to suppress a driving ban story about a rural TD in a party not in power....

There was no court appearance, nothing whatsoever that would've led to it becoming public knowledge unless the media was tipped off.

Which they were not. Daly, on the other hand, had that information leaked to the media by someone within AGS.

There is no great conspiracy involved. The two situations are different and not evidence of anything whatsoever.

expectationlost

Barry Cowen 12/04/2016 no l-plate
https://www.rollingnews.ie/p/press/asset/90414959

Jinglejangle69

Chap is a proper FFer.

Has that sly smug look about him.

freshpopcorn

expectationlost wrote: »

Barry Cowen 12/04/2016 no l-plate
https://www.rollingnews.ie/p/press/asset/90414959

The guy beside him must have stole his L when he wasn't looking!

Acosta

Unless I'm mistaken nobody in the Irish media bothered to follow up on many of the disturbing aspects of the Maurice McCabe saga. The Guards that made his life a living hell, that drove around in unmarked cars in groups, pissed up and interfering with a serious crime scene. Were they ever punished? Are they still in the force? And then there's the free pass the Guards got over all the fake breath testing and penalty points disappearing from sports stars and erm, newspaper editors.
There's a really weird, shrug of the shoulders type attitude from too many people regarding Garda wrongdoing and corruption which is reflected in our media.
All that is a lot more important than some member of the nod nod wink wink party.

Edgware

Whats all this "great job" Daly was doing?
With her newly acquired Dublin wuuuurker accent all she did was whinge and moan with Coppinger, Rich boy and all the other lefties with their middle class guilt

two wheels good

maestroamado wrote: »

I have little interest in this but...
Michael Martin shafted Brian Cowan when he was leader, totally disloyal.
Now MM the boss so guilt payback.
For me he simply hasn't got what needed in leader...

Cowan had to go. (Some might argue he ought never to have been leader /taoiseach in the first place )
At the time I remember being critical for FF's lengthy delay in deposing him.
MM played the strategic game to shinny up the greasy pole instead of putting the needs of the country first.

Mis-guided loyalty is far too prevalent in Irish politics and amongst vioters.
Why be loyal to a failing and incompetent politician?
Oh yeah, "because my family were always staunch FF/FG./SF supporters" (delete as appropriate)

mynamejeff

Bowie wrote: »

You keep doing a which was worse. Playing down what Cowen got done for. That's not why we are making the comparison. This has been explained to you.
The papers likely buried Cowens story and hammered Daly. While Daly was doing a great job IMO. Also it's not believable that MM didnt know. That's the interesting parts.

Daly "leaked " the incident herself to create media intrest cowen didn't make a issue until the media did.

surely one of your various boards usernames remember that

mynamejeff

Acosta wrote: »

Unless I'm mistaken nobody in the Irish media bothered to follow up on many of the disturbing aspects of the Maurice McCabe saga. The Guards that made his life a living hell, that drove around in unmarked cars in groups, pissed up and interfering with a serious crime scene. Were they ever punished? Are they still in the force? And then there's the free pass the Guards got over all the fake breath testing and penalty points disappearing from sports stars and erm, newspaper editors.
There's a really weird, shrug of the shoulders type attitude from too many people regarding Garda wrongdoing and corruption which is reflected in our media.
All that is a lot more important than some member of the nod nod wink wink party.

you obviously didn't bother to read much or any of the actual enquiry reports and just the allegations ,

just because some one makes and allegation doesn't make it true you realise

ChikiChiki

Multiple breaches of the law it seems and at a time when he was a strong performer in opposition. Standards are slipping, sends an awful message to be honest.

People tend to replicate the behaviours of their leaders.

mynamejeff

expectationlost wrote: »

Twitter accounts linked to detective garda used to mock Clare Daly after arrest. A GARDA DETECTIVE sent Clare Daly tweets mocking her immediately after she was arrested in 2013.

https://www.thejournal.ie/clare-daly-garda-account-twitter-2777112-May2016/

"As part of Daly’s complaint she alleged that gardaí had told the media that she requested that TD Mick Wallace be told about her arrest.
She said that she received contact from an Irish Daily Mail journalist asking why she had contacted Wallace – something Daly’s legal representation said was designed to embarrass her. "

All information from Daly herself, is there an outcome from an investigation or just a fringe politician trying to make herself relevant

McMurphy

mynamejeff wrote: »

All information from Daly herself, is there an outcome from an investigation or just a fringe politician trying to make herself relevant

You're really, really poor at this Jeffrey, and also telling lies.

Lies make baby Jesus cry Jeff.


GSOC says details of Clare Daly's arrest were leaked by gardaí - but no one will be punished

there does appear to be sufficient evidence to state, on the balance of probabilities, that some of the detail relating to Deputy Daly’s arrest emanated from within the Garda Síochána organisation and were made available to members of the media in an unauthorised manner.

Do you have a dog in this fight Jeffrey may I ask?

mynamejeff

McMurphy wrote: »

You're really, really poor at this Jeffrey, and also telling lies.

Lies make baby Jesus cry Jeff.


GSOC says details of Clare Daly's arrest were leaked by gardaí - but no one will be punished



Do you have a dog in this fight Jeffrey may I ask?

post a link and then complain about the content within ? then make really poor attempt to be condescending ?

aside from that

3 and a half years of investigation and GSOC prosecuted no one ? but you can prove something else ? F me you must be good .

I wonder if Clare Daly made the phone call herself to her old pal Mick Wallace and got him to make a few calls to garner some much needed publicity , it did take her 2 hours to provide a sample according to the link you posted .

My dog in this as you put it is I don't like grotty public reps exploiting people

James Brown

mynamejeff wrote: »

post a link and then complain about the content within ? then make really poor attempt to be condescending ?

aside from that

3 and a half years of investigation and GSOC prosecuted no one ? but you can prove something else ? F me you must be good .

I wonder if Clare Daly made the phone call herself to her old pal Mick Wallace and got him to make a few calls to garner some much needed publicity , it did take her 2 hours to provide a sample according to the link you posted .

My dog in this as you put it is I don't like grotty public reps exploiting people

What about hacks playing politics with the news? Your dislike for Daly does not take away from her treatment by the press and its silence on Cowen. Until now.

mynamejeff

Bowie wrote: »

What about hacks playing politics with the news? Your dislike for Daly does not take away from her treatment by the press and its silence on Cowen. Until now.

I cant help but assume that you intentionally missed the point

but I agree that cowens issue was more relevant at the time and should have been covered in the public interest ,

daly on the other hand in my opinion made sure hers was for her own reasons

McMurphy

mynamejeff wrote: »

post a link and then complain about the content within ? then make really poor attempt to be condescending ?

aside from that

I did? Where?

Are you insinuating that GSOC have it wrong? Are you saying they are telling lies - or to be a bit more right on and pc, possibly "made a mistake" ?

On what grounds would this be may I ask?

3 and a half years of investigation and GSOC prosecuted no one ? but you can prove something else ? F me you must be good .

3 and a half years of the Gardai making the investigation as difficult as possible.

Apart from that, what can I prove Jeffrey? All I did was post a link to GSOCs statement, and a link to the published report stating that there appears to be sufficient evidence that the details were leaked by the Gardai, you posted what to back up your own claims? Diddly shít wasn't it?

I wonder if Clare Daly made the phone call herself to her old pal Mick Wallace and got him to make a few calls to garner some much needed publicity , it did take her 2 hours to provide a sample according to the link you posted .

My dog in this as you put it is I don't like grotty public reps exploiting people

**Insert gif of man with fingers in his ears going nananananana here**

Homelander

Bowie wrote: »

What about hacks playing politics with the news? Your dislike for Daly does not take away from her treatment by the press and its silence on Cowen. Until now.

This has been addressed twice now in the thread but you're obviously keen on barking up the crackpot conspiracy tree.

Why did the entire media sector in Ireland conspire to protect a rural TD in an unpopular, out of power party?

Could it be, that...they simply didn't know about the incident? Hence the "silence"?

No....it must be a massive conspiracy involving every sector of the media in Ireland which for reasons unknown had a huge stake in protecting Barry Cowen.

Clare Daly was different, someone within the Gardai informed the media. Nothing to do with the media picking and choosing, or protecting anyone. They'll run with whatever they can get and they most definitely would've run with Cowen in 2016 if someone had tipped them off.

But continue to ignore logic I suppose.

mynamejeff

McMurphy wrote: »

I did? Where?

Are you insinuating that GSOC have it wrong? Are you saying they are telling lies - or to be a bit more right on and pc, possibly "made a mistake" ?

On what grounds would this be may I ask?



3 and a half years of the Gardai making the investigation as difficult as possible.

Apart from that, what can I prove Jeffrey? All I did was post a link to GSOCs statement, and a link to the published report stating that there appears to be sufficient evidence that the details were leaked by the Gardai, you posted what to back up your own claims? Diddly shít wasn't it?



**Insert gif of man with fingers in his ears going nananananana here**

do you want me to post links of your links or what ?

so you have no proof and as I wasn't there I don't have proof either , but only one of us are posting media links of comments from Daly .

do you know what the difference between the blood alcohol content would have been in each case ?

McMurphy

mynamejeff wrote: »

do you want me to post links of your links or what ?

so you have no proof and as I wasn't there I don't have proof either , but only one of us are posting media links of comments from Daly .

do you know what the difference between the blood alcohol content would have been in each case ?

What are you on about Jeffrey? You stated on the thread that (and you appear to be doubling down on it) that "Daly leaked the details of her arrest to the media herself"

I posted a link to a report published by GSOC that clearly states that the evidence pointed towards the Gardai being the ones who leaked it.


Everything else you're attempting to shoehorn in is irrelevant waffle.

waver

That interview with Barry Cowen was quite odd.

Why did he keep saying his licence had been regularised? Did he actually sit and pass his driving test at some stage?

Galwayguy35

WishUWereHere wrote: »

Well, I think it IS fishy. AFAIK Cowan never had a ministerial car with a driver, so surely every week, the bloke had to go to Kildare Street on political business, then how did he get there?

No Idea, I was just saying what might have happened.

WishUWereHere

waver wrote: »

That interview with Barry Cowen was quite odd.

Why did he keep saying his licence had been regularised? Did he actually sit and pass his driving test at some stage?

My thought exactly. I though Áine Lawlor was lenient on him. She should have asked for clarification on this 'regularised' comment.

mynamejeff

McMurphy wrote: »

What are you on about Jeffrey? You stated on the thread that (and you appear to be doubling down on it) that "Daly leaked the details of her arrest to the media herself"

I posted a link to a report published by GSOC that clearly states that the evidence pointed towards the Gardai being the ones who leaked it.


Everything else you're attempting to shoehorn in is irrelevant waffle.

well no I didn't mention daly first that was a different "poster"

you posted links that proved nothing just suggests innuendo, GSOC have gone to court with much weaker cases,

I m suggesting that its likely that daly called Wallace while in custody , (mentioned in your link ) and got him to leak it for political reasons

and like you I have no proof of this but at the time and in the context the only one that leak it would have benefited was daly

your going around in circles because your not listening kid

RandomViewer

TheRiverman wrote: »

I am open to correction,but I think only the Taoiseach and Tanaiste have chauffeur driven cars.

Ministers definately had drivers a few years ago, even the juniors ,whether paid by them or us I'm not sure,

RandomViewer

mynamejeff wrote: »

well no I didn't mention daly first that was a different "poster"

you posted links that proved nothing just suggests innuendo, GSOC have gone to court with much weaker cases,

I m suggesting that its likely that daly called Wallace while in custody , (mentioned in your link ) and got him to leak it for political reasons

and like you I have no proof of this but at the time and in the context the only one that leak it would have benefited was daly

your going around in circles because your not listening kid

Did the guard not put it up on the Garda Facebook?

RandomViewer

Whestsidestory wrote: »

Interesting to see all the media coverage about this and not a word about the new Minister for Children's endorsement of Peter Thatchell

Media running scared or bigger story to surface?

mynamejeff

RandomViewer wrote: »

Ministers definately had drivers a few years ago, even the juniors ,whether paid by them or us I'm not sure,

I think its paid for themselves last few years but im sure there's an allowance

selous

Read the first few pages then skipped to last page, so apologies if this has been covered.

This was 4 years ago, he'd been driving to and fro from Offaly and Dublin..on as he calls it a "provisional licence"

Well, for a well read minister he's fudging it, On 30th September 2007 (over 4 years ago)the new "Learner Permit"came into being and on 30th June 2008 all learner permit holders had to be accompanied by a fully licenced driver .

So this man is picking up expenses for driving to and from the Dáil "illegally" repeatedly

So not only his over the limit for being a learner (10mg per 100) but driving unaccompanied too, did this invalid his insurance if he did to damage along the way?

mynamejeff

RandomViewer wrote: »

Did the guard not put it up on the Garda Facebook?

McMurphy might be able to tell you that they did but I don't know :)

McMurphy

mynamejeff wrote: »

well no I didn't mention daly first that was a different "poster"

What's this nonsense? Daly had been mentioned numerous times on the thread, no-one was suggesting you brought her name up first bro, I said that you stated - and doubled down on it too, that Daly "leaked the details of her own arrest" which you did do here.

mynamejeff wrote: »

Daly "leaked " the incident herself to create media intrest cowen didn't make a issue until the media did.

you posted links that proved nothing just suggests innuendo, GSOC have gone to court with much weaker cases,

I m suggesting that its likely that daly called Wallace while in custody , (mentioned in your link ) and got him to leak it for political reasons

and like you I have no proof of this but at the time and in the context the only one that leak it would have benefited was daly

your going around in circles because your not listening kid

Let's see..... Who's versions of events I am leaning towards finding the more credible......

The impartial and independent GSOC with their published report, or a poster who openly freely posted their prejudice against Daly.......

mynamejeff wrote: »

All information from Daly herself, is there an outcome from an investigation or just a fringe politician trying to make herself relevant

Hmmmmmm has me in a bit of a pickle so it has.

waver

selous wrote: »

Read the first few pages then skipped to last page, so apologies if this has been covered.

This was 4 years ago, he'd been driving to and fro from Offaly and Dublin..on as he calls it a "provisional licence"

Well, for a well read minister he's fudging it, On 30th September 2007 (over 4 years ago)the new "Learner Permit"came into being and on 30th June 2008 all learner permit holders had to be accompanied by a fully licenced driver .

So this man is picking up expenses for driving to and from the Dáil "illegally" repeatedly

So not only his over the limit for being a learner (10mg per 100) but driving unaccompanied too, did this invalid his insurance if he did to damage along the way?

And presumably taking the long road because as a learner, even when accompanied, he can’t drive on a motorway.

Effects

hotmail.com wrote: »

Back in power and Fianna Fail already creating drama.

Meh. Just a few years ago, wasn't it a Fine Gael TD that a Garda tried to stop drink driving from Dáil Éireann, who then assaulted the Garda, leaving her in hospital with her injuries? Got fairly well swept under the carpet.

They are all as bad as each other.

mynamejeff

McMurphy wrote: »

What's this nonsense? Daly had been mentioned numerous times on the thread, no-one was suggesting you brought her name up first bro, I said that you stated - and doubled down on it too, that Daly "leaked the details of her own arrest" which you did do here.






Let's see..... Who's versions of events I am leaning towards finding the more credible......

The impartial and independent GSOC with their published report, or a poster who openly freely posted their prejudice against Daly.......





Hmmmmmm has me in a bit of a pickle so it has.

yeap I still agree that the person who had the most to gain from the leak was daly and through her call to Wallace she had the means

your faith in GSOC isn't shared by the lady in question , and not just on this matter ,

have a google