Barry Cowen sacked

Chiparus

If Cowan had a full license , he would have been free to go, much lower limits apply to provisional license holders.

hotmail.com

Some pressure on him from The Week In Politics. They want him back in the Dail to answer questions.

This story hasn't gone away yet.

hotmail.com

Mortelaro wrote: »

Yes and while I'm no expert, if he had a solicitor with him in the garda Station or engaging, and this was not mentioned nevermind prosecuted, the Gardai will probably have to correct the record if that's on it
I do not know what implications it has for the newspapers position

It isn't beyond the possibility that the Gardai made a mistake. They often do. So we'll have to wait to see what Cowen says about it.

Itssoeasy

So there's more to the Barry cowen case then ? I still go back to how in the hell he didn't mention this to the Taoiseach at some point in the last four years prior to becoming minister of agriculture. And even though he wasn't charged with anything, you'd think that if nothing else to give the next leader of this country the heads up about it would be the least you'd do. I still don't understand how the lack of communication happened. I'm not saying barry cowen should have giving MM chapter and verse on the incident but as I say a heads up would be fine.

I assume he's gotten his ducks in a row in what he's alleged of AGS.

AndrewJRenko

McMurphy wrote: »

I'm speculating that it's not really plausible that no-one from a county Kildare Garda station would have been well aware of who Barry Cowen TD of County Offaly was, who he was related to, and what he was alleged to have acted when approaching a Garda checkpoint, his subsequent failure of the roadside breathalyser test, and the test at a Garda station later.

Good one.

The fascinating bit is how this stayed out of the public eye for four years, given the number of people who must have been aware of at least the fact that he was pulled into the station to give a sample.

swampgas

Chiparus wrote: »

If Cowan had a full license , he would have been free to go, much lower limits apply to provisional license holders.

True. Although had he a full license at the time, he may well have decided to have a few extra pints before leaving Dublin, and ended up over the limit anyway. Who knows?

What we know for a fact is that he has never passed a driving test. And yet he is arrogant enough to feel entitled to tear around the country after a few pints without a driving license. While being a TD, no less.

Everything about this whole affair stinks, to be honest.

hotmail.com

Martin made a hash of the appointments from the start. Was he mad appointing a Cowen to the cabinet after what happened only 10 years ago.

McMurphy

Chiparus wrote: »

If Cowan had a full license , he would have been free to go, much lower limits apply to provisional license holders.

If he had of purposely ploughed into the Garda checkpoint and killed everyone present he'd have been put in jail for a considerable length of time.

He didn't though. Same as holding a full license.

Cute Hoor

swampgas wrote: »

What we know for a fact is that he has never passed a driving test.

Do we know this for a fact. He has claimed that he has 'regularised' his position and now has a full licence. How can you get a full licence without passing a driving test.

swampgas

Cute Hoor wrote: »

Do we know this for a fact. He has claimed that he has 'regularised' his position and now has a full licence. How can you get a full licence without passing a driving test.

Fair point, I don't know for a fact that he hasn't passed the test - I assumed that had he done so, he would have been driving around on a full license?

Mortelaro

Itssoeasy wrote: »

So there's more to the Barry cowen case then ? I still go back to how in the hell he didn't mention this to the Taoiseach at some point in the last four years prior to becoming minister of agriculture.

Oh he wouldn't have mentioned it as he'd still be a backbencher
He'd have no way of knowing what was in the garda file about a u turn
That is the bit on shakey ground for this story,because if it wasn't prosecuted, you'd have to be asking why and if it wasn't mentioned to his solicitor then it will have to be taken off the record

CrankyHaus

Snow Garden wrote: »

Well done to the Sunday Times for printing. We must not let FFG bully our press.

It was the same story with the Garda issues that blew up in recent years.
The Sunday Times was covering the topic for a long long time before it got serious play in our own broadsheets. It seems less deferential to official Ireland, though obviously you need a bias filter for the stuff in it that comes over from the UK.

Cute Hoor

swampgas wrote: »

Fair point, I don't know for a fact that he hasn't passed the test - I assumed that had he done so, he would have been driving around on a full license?

His unwillingness to clearly detail his driving history is leaving all these questions unanswered and imo his hole is getting bigger by the day, stop digging Barry

McMurphy

Mortelaro wrote: »

Oh he wouldn't have mentioned it as he'd still be a backbencher
He'd have no way of knowing what was in the garda file about a u turn
That is the bit on shakey ground for this story,because if it wasn't prosecuted, you'd have to be asking why and if it wasn't mentioned to his solicitor then it will have to be taken off the record

My guess is that Cowen possibly did a U-turn at the checkpoint, but obviously he will say it wasn't to purposely evade or dodge the checkpoint, it was purely coincidental that the checkpoint was just up above where he suddenly realised he had missed his turn on the road he meant to take, or some other "Sir Norman Fry" type bullsh1t excuse.

The Gards potentially have evidence of Cowen pulling the U-turn before the checkpoint, and so they can possibly refuse to alter their records, I'm not an expert so not sure how these things work.

One things for certain though, no matter what people try and tell us, the story's far from over and there's evidently a lot of people who do care.

Snow Garden

I feel our press have become very subservient to FFG since the early 2000s.

jacool

He hasn't explained why his expense claim for the 3 months was the same as all the other months, when he was driving.

Edgware

hotmail.com wrote: »

Martin made a hash of the appointments from the start. Was he mad appointing a Cowen to the cabinet after what happened only 10 years ago.

I can guarantee that if it happened in the time ofthe Ahern, Reynolds, Haughey leadership they would know all about it. Martin should spend a bit more time supping pints with the lads if he wants to know whats going on.

strandroad

Edgware wrote: »

I can guarantee that if it happened in the time ofthe Ahern, Reynolds, Haughey leadership they would know all about it. Martin should spend a bit more time supping pints with the lads if he wants to know whats going on.

How do we know he didn't know, I may have missed that?
I'd wager that there are many many transgressions among TDs we don't get to know about, until it's convenient for someone to expose them.

Cute Hoor

jacool wrote: »

He hasn't explained why his expense claim for the 3 months was the same as all the other months, when he was driving.

Travel expenses are an unvouched allowance that every TD is 'entitled' to irrespective of how they travel.

Mortelaro

McMurphy wrote: »

My guess is that Cowen possibly did a U-turn at the checkpoint, but obviously he will say it wasn't to purposely evade or dodge the checkpoint, it was purely coincidental that the checkpoint was just up above where he suddenly realised he had missed his turn on the road he meant to take, or some other "Sir Norman Fry" type bullsh1t excuse.

The Gards potentially have evidence of Cowen pulling the U-turn before the checkpoint, and so they can possibly refuse to alter their records, I'm not an expert so not sure how these things work.

One things for certain though, no matter what people try and tell us, the story's far from over and there's evidently a lot of people who do care.

That speculation doesn't override a solicitors legitimate question as to why the more serious offence was neither mentioned or prosecuted

I'd speculate that we are firmly in the territory of who ever is behind this dirt digging forgot to pay a prostitute to swear she was in the car pouring drink for Cowen and therefore might be disappointed with the outcome

Bannasidhe

Mortelaro wrote: »

That speculation doesn't override a solicitors legitimate question as to why the more serious offence was neither mentioned or prosecuted

I'd speculate that we are firmly in the territory of who ever is behind this dirt digging forgot to pay a prostitute to swear she was in the car pouring drink for Cowen and therefore might be disappointed with the outcome

Would there have been a solicitor involved for a fixed penalty notice?
Because that seems to be what happened. Cowen was stopped, failed the breath test, and received a FPN. He doesn't seem to have challenged it so why would a solicitor be involved?

Cute Hoor

Barry Cowen is effectively accusing Garda(i) of falsely recording what happened in the Pulse system. The Garda(i) involved will have to accept that they did falsely record what happened for the record to be amended, thereby effectively terminating their Garda(i) careers.

Darc19

Paddy power, 2020 as year of next election 10/1

Could be a great bet

McMurphy

Mortelaro wrote: »

That speculation doesn't override a solicitors legitimate question as to why the more serious offence was neither mentioned or prosecuted

I'd speculate that we are firmly in the territory of who ever is behind this dirt digging forgot to pay a prostitute to swear she was in the car pouring drink for Cowen and therefore might be disappointed with the outcome

They must have an extraordinary long reach and influence, what with being able to persuade a Gard with falsely recording an incident in which they claim to have had to pursue a FF TD after they performed a uturn at a Garda checkpoint.

Darc19

Mortelaro wrote: »

That speculation doesn't override a solicitors legitimate question as to why the more serious offence was neither mentioned or prosecuted

A solicitor for a ticket?

No prosecution took place.

Simply over the limit for a learner driver, but not over the general limit. €200 fine, 3 months ban. Here's your ticket.

smelly sock

McMurphy wrote: »

No doubt if it later transpires Cowen actually did attempt to evade the checkpoint and has lied about it, and other events, as a minister heading a govt department you'll be calling for him to pay with his job also.

I admit to initially thinking Cowen had been punished for being marginally over the limit, and should be entitled to move on, but the story has evolved phenomenally since the initial reports.

The next series of events will be interesting, surely a govt minister openly disputing Gardai records on them is unprecedented?

FF back in govt week 2.

I would. I think if he in fact tried to be deceptive regarding a checkpoint then he knew he was well over the limit and knew he shouldnt have been driving.

I still think though if a member of AGS leaked it that is also serious and unethical and should he treated as a seperate incident. The member if found guilty of any inappropriate behaviour should also be named and shamed.

smelly sock

Cute Hoor wrote: »

Barry Cowen is effectively accusing Garda(i) of falsely recording what happened in the Pulse system. The Garda(i) involved will have to accept that they did falsely record what happened for the record to be amended, thereby effectively terminating their Garda(i) careers.

??

I would say that it wasnt recorded falsely. I'd believe the Guard on this. However the accessing of the info and the leaking of the data is more serious imo.

StackSteevens

smelly sock wrote: »

If a members of AGS leaked this info, which I suspect they did l, then they should pay with the their job. Sinple as that. Set a precedent.

"sinple" is right!

IF the leaked story is true, then they should be promoted for telling the truth and exposing a wrongly promoted chancer who, if he wasn't both the the son and brother of a FF TD, wouldn't have got past being a local auctioneer and dog breeder.

However, if the leaked story is incorrect then they should be booted out of the force without a pension.

Cute Hoor

smelly sock wrote: »

??

I would say that it wasnt recorded falsely. I'd believe the Guard on this. However the accessing of the info and the leaking of the data is more serious imo.

Cowen wants the record corrected, which means he is saying that the Garda(i) recorded it incorrectly in the first place.

Agree about the leaking (although I'd be surprised if it was 'accessed')

Mortelaro

McMurphy wrote: »

They must have an extraordinary long reach and influence, what with being able to persuade a Gard with falsely recording an incident in which they claim to have had to pursue a FF TD after they performed a uturn at a Garda checkpoint.

I didn't say that whoever dug this up got a Garda to falsely record something...
We don't know if its correctly recorded either
We also need to know why the more serious offence wasn't prosecuted or mentioned to a solicitor if involved
As I said very shakey ground so far as I see it for whoever is looking for a sacking but we'll see
Theres no sense looking at this with only one eye open