Barry Cowen sacked

Mortelaro

Mortelaro wrote: »

I didn't say that whoever dug this up got a Garda to falsely record something...
We don't know if its correctly recorded either
We also need to know why the more serious offence wasn't prosecuted or mentioned to a solicitor if involved
As I said very shakey ground so far as I see it for whoever is looking for a sacking but we'll see
Theres no sense looking at this with only one eye open

Can the more serious offence be prosectuted now?

smelly sock

StackSteevens wrote: »

"sinple" is right!

IF the leaked story is true, then they should be promoted for telling the truth and exposing a wrongly promoted chancer who, if he wasn't both the the son and brother of a FF TD, wouldn't have got past being a local auctioneer and dog breeder.

However, if the leaked story is incorrect then they should be booted out of the force without a pension.

I dont think so. Its not that sinple.

That's not what AGS are there for. We've been here before.

smelly sock

Cute Hoor wrote: »

Cowen wants the record corrected, which means he is saying that the Garda(i) recorded it incorrectly in the first place.

Agree about the leaking (although I'd be surprised if it was 'accessed')

Only AGS would have access to this record so it shouldnt matter.

StackSteevens

smelly sock wrote: »

I dont think so. Its not that sinple.

That's not what AGS are there for. We've been here before.

So although it's grand for (national hero) Maurice McCabe to have leaked like a sieve, this lad (or lassie) shouldn't be doing it?

Maybe it's the bould Maurice who leaked it!




.

Cute Hoor

smelly sock wrote: »

Only AGS would have access to this record so it shouldnt matter.

It matters in the sense that if it wasn't accessed there is no way for the Garda investigation to determine who leaked it to the Sunday Times - I'm assuming the Sunday Times won't sing. If it was accessed of course then the accesser is up sh1t creek.

Get Real

Mortelaro wrote: »

...
We also need to know why the more serious offence wasn't prosecuted or mentioned to a solicitor if involved

What more serious offence? It's not actually an offence to do a u-turn before a Garda checkpoint, believe it or not.

It's an offence to not stop for a Garda when requested. If he was x amount of metres away down the road with a few cars ahead of him, a guard couldn't have possibly required him to stop.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1961/act/24/section/109/enacted/en/html

If he got to the checkpoint and the guard put the hand up and failed to stop/ had kept driving, that's an offence.

If he saw the blue lights down the road in the distance and did a U turn, not an offence. But suspicious. And warrants a pulling over. Which led to the breath test.

But if I have my car in order, full documents in order, and no drink/drugs in my system and do a U turn up the road from a checkpoint, can I be prosecuted? No. Will I get a bollocking, yes, and deservedly so.

Generally though, people who do u turns are avoiding getting caught with something, and end up being prosecuted for exactly what they were trying to get away with. But are they prosecuted for the u-turn? No, because there's no law for it.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/learner-driver-trouble-after-cheeky-16698788.amp

https://www.kildarenow.com/news/home/538031/bmw-car-tried-to-pull-u-turn-at-garda-checkpoint-in-kildare-town.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/regionals/kerryman/news/performed-a-u-turn-to-avoid-garda-checkpoint-27389032.html

All offences where you see people were prosecuted, but not for the U turn, as it's not an actual offence.

Edit: and I don't support Cowen in this fiasco, but factually, he couldn't have actually been prosecuted for this. It doesn't mean he didn't do the alleged U turn, he just cant be done for it.

Cute Hoor

Get Real wrote: »

What more serious offence? It's not actually an offence to do a u-turn before a Garda checkpoint, believe it or not.

It's an offence to stop for a Garda when requested. If he was x amount of metres away down the road with a few cars ahead of him, a guard couldn't have possibly required him to stop.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1961/act/24/section/109/enacted/en/html

If he got to the checkpoint and the guard put the hand up and failed to stop/ had kept driving, that's an offence.

If he saw the blue lights down the road in the distance and did a U turn, not an offence. But suspicious. And warrants a pulling over. Which led to the breath test.

But if I have my car in order, full documents in order, and no drink/drugs in my system and do a U turn up the road from a checkpoint, can I be prosecuted? No. Will I get a bollocking, yes, and deservedly so.

Generally though, people who do u turns are avoiding getting caught with something, and end up being prosecuted for exactly what they were trying to get away with. But are they prosecuted for the u-turn? No, because there's no law for it.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/learner-driver-trouble-after-cheeky-16698788.amp

https://www.kildarenow.com/news/home/538031/bmw-car-tried-to-pull-u-turn-at-garda-checkpoint-in-kildare-town.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/regionals/kerryman/news/performed-a-u-turn-to-avoid-garda-checkpoint-27389032.html

All offences where you see people were prosecuted, but not for the U turn, as it's not an actual offence.

We needed somebody like you to Get Real. Excellent explanation.
So there would be no question of additional charges, he was done for the drink driving, end of charges.

Cute Hoor

I presume there were 2 (at least) Gardai on breathalyser duty that night, presumably a Garda wouldn't be let out on his own

Mortelaro

Get Real wrote: »

What more serious offence? It's not actually an offence to do a u-turn before a Garda checkpoint, believe it or not.

It's an offence to stop for a Garda when requested. If he was x amount of metres away down the road with a few cars ahead of him, a guard couldn't have possibly required him to stop.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1961/act/24/section/109/enacted/en/html

If he got to the checkpoint and the guard put the hand up and failed to stop/ had kept driving, that's an offence.

If he saw the blue lights down the road in the distance and did a U turn, not an offence. But suspicious. And warrants a pulling over. Which led to the breath test.

I appreciate that,but why is Cowen stating that he wants the U-turn corrected and why does he mention it as a serious offence in his statement
You like I and others are all in the realm of speculation
Its been moved to G soc now for investigation I see

So, what time tomorrow are we expecting his

"...the publicity of my personal life is detracting from the great work of the government. While I'm innocent of everything other than what i've said I'm guilty of, I will step down so that my colleagues can get on with screwing the country over...".....speech.

Cute Hoor

"I did not evade, or attempt to evade, a Garda. Such an act would constitute a serious criminal offence and I was not charged with such an offence."

Carefully worded quote from Barry, and he is of course correct on both, he did not evade, or attempt to evade, a Garda. What it is presumably being alleged in the Garda record though is - he saw the checkpoint ahead and tried to leg it before being stopped/caught. As Get Real says, no offence committed, no serious criminal offence, and no reason to be charged with any such offence.

smelly sock

Cute Hoor wrote: »

"I did not evade, or attempt to evade, a Garda. Such an act would constitute a serious criminal offence and I was not charged with such an offence."

Carefully worded quote from Barry, and he is of course correct on both, he did not evade, or attempt to evade, a Garda. What it is presumably being alleged in the Garda record though is - he saw the checkpoint ahead and tried to leg it before being stopped/caught. As Get Real says, no offence committed, no serious criminal offence, and no reason to be charged with any such offence.

The offence would be the leaking of info.

StackSteevens

Deleted User wrote: »

So, what time tomorrow are we expecting his

"...the publicity of my personal life is detracting from the great work of the government. While I'm innocent of everything other than what i've said I'm guilty of, I will step down so that my colleagues can get on with screwing the country over...".....speech.

Probably just after a grim faced Gerry Adams, announces that, after a long period of reflection and prayer, he has decided to confirm that the rumours that he was a member of the Provisional Irish Republican Army are in fact true.

One is every bit as likely as the other.

Muahahaha

jaysis my mother who doesnt even follow politics remarked on the irony that the last time FF were in power was bookended with Brian being drunk on radio and now theyre back in power this reign begins with more scandal of his brother drink driving. She asked what is that Cowen family like at all, at all

smelly sock

Muahahaha wrote: »

jaysis my mother who doesnt even follow politics remarked on the irony that the last time FF were in power was bookended with Brian being drunk on radio and now theyre back in power this reign begins with more scandal of his brother drink driving. She asked what is that Cowen family like at all, at all

They're fond of the porter anyway.

James Brown

I thought it would be just a reminder of what FF are but with the u-turn and now he's attacking the Garda. He's done.

smelly sock

Bowie wrote: »

I thought it would be just a reminder of what FF are but with the u-turn and now he's attacking the Garda. He's done.

Not if the gripe / complaint is legitimate.

Muahahaha

smelly sock wrote: »

They're fond of the porter anyway.

i cant comment on Barry but with my own eyes back in 2010 I saw Brian literally staggering drunk coming out of Doheny & Nesbitts and having to be held up by what i presume was his Garda driver. It didnt inspire confidence that he was the leader of the country at the time.

James Brown

smelly sock wrote: »

Not if the gripe / complaint is legitimate.

He'll get them on the leak, but harking back to Clare Daly, unlikely any Gard will be charged.
If the U-turn is true he's done.

smelly sock

Muahahaha wrote: »

i cant comment on Barry but with my own eyes back in 2010 I saw Brian literally staggering drunk coming out of Doheny & Nesbitts and having to be held up by what i presume was his Garda driver. It didnt inspire confidence that he was the leader of the country at the time.

Although i wouldnt wish it on anyone he paid for that kinda lifestyle.

Sunny Disposition

If this leak is investigatied it is highly ironic given the stream of leaks about SF there have been over the years, plus the Clare Daly droning incident and Mick Wallace on the phone while driving.

dundalkfc10

StackSteevens wrote: »

Probably just after a grim faced Gerry Adams, announces that, after a long period of reflection and prayer, he has decided to confirm that the rumours that he was a member of the Provisional Irish Republican Army are in fact true.

One is every bit as likely as the other.

This thread is not about Gerry Adams or the IRA.

The days of but but what about SF are over

Muahahaha

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

If this leak is investigatied it is highly ironic given the stream of leaks about SF there have been over the years, plus the Clare Daly droning incident and Mick Wallace on the phone while driving.

I certainly found it interesting that Cowen is calling the leaking of Garda info a criminal act, it didnt seem to bother him when the same was done to Clare Daly and Mick Wallace. And now he is accusing the Gardai of being liars and making up his feeble attempt to evade the checkpoint.

The Gardai are literally the most leaky organisation in the country. Its always been that way. You only need to pick up the Sunday World to see that, half of the articles in it are written off the back of Garda leaks.

Mortelaro

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

The days of but but what about SF are over

I doubt that,Buckley for example won't be a minister if Cowen goes
Little apples grow again as they say

PMBC

Im not a supporter of his or FF and I have had interactions with both him and Brian. The latter was extremely well liked even among opponents but Barry .......!!!!! I've seen both in action and there is no comparison. The Minister obviously has enemies possibly in his own party/Cumann.
Surely the details of the charge and the verdict are recorded on the day of the court hearing as the judge's decision and his solicitor surely retained a copy.
Imho this is historic and his mistake was in not telling M Martin at the time

cannotlogin

Not sure how this has escalated so much but I think it's actually more do to with the fact that Barry Cowan is an unlikable and contrite individual who tends to double down on his stupidity rather than face up warts and all at the outset.


He also seems to have put his boss in a very difficult position by:-

1. Accusing the Gardai of a criminal act. Far from ideal to have a new minister take this position and would be interested in seeing Helen McEntee's opinion on this

2. It's very obvious now there have been lies by omission at the very least. How can MM continue to support him?

They should just get rid of him. It's a sideshow to the covid & economic position at the moment, which is where the focus should be.

It wasnt me123

[QUOTE=PMBC;114010005 ...
Surely the details of the charge and the verdict are recorded on the day of the court hearing as the judge's decision and his solicitor surely retained a copy.
Imho this is historic and his mistake was in not telling M Martin at the time[/QUOTE]

His mistake as you call it was driving on a driving permit drunk ... who gives a ****e whether the guards leaked it or not - he shouldn’t have been behind the wheel in the first place. I hope he gets dumped.

His brother was a ****e TD, a drunk and a finance Minister who left this country in desperate times. This electing family members just because has to stop and we need to elect people on merit, not on their family name.

I hope he gets the book thrown at him

xl500

PMBC wrote: »

Im not a supporter of his or FF and I have had interactions with both him and Brian. The latter was extremely well liked even among opponents but Barry .......!!!!! I've seen both in action and there is no comparison. The Minister obviously has enemies possibly in his own party/Cumann.
Surely the details of the charge and the verdict are recorded on the day of the court hearing as the judge's decision and his solicitor surely retained a copy.
Imho this is historic and his mistake was in not telling M Martin at the time

there was no court hearing

Muahahaha

https://twitter.com/ActingTheGom/status/1282297260064288768

KOR101

I wonder whether he continued to drive despite being banned.

Would any journalist have a photo from the period of him driving?

Would there be a record of cars entering and leaving the Dail?

This still has some way to run, I think.