Barry Cowen sacked

silver2020

Yurt! wrote: »

Emmm, he was put off the road for drink driving??

I can drive with the same amount of alcohol as Cowen had and I'd have no fear of a checkpoint - why? Because I hold a full license and that permits me to drive once my ba level is under 50mg / 100ml.

Cowen had a learner permit, so very low ba driving level applied (20mg/100ml).


If he had been 100% truthful at the first opportunity and put himself at the mercy of people, he'd still be in his job. Instead he did a bailey and over explained and gave BS excuses.

There is no way he only had 2 pints BEFORE the match - his reading would have been near zero.

I'll guess he was flashed by other drivers and turned around before he saw the checkpoint - therefore he can "legitimately claim" he did not turn around when he saw the checkpoint, but that's just sugar coating it and is almost the same thing.

As is normal, there is another garda car watching for these sudden change of direction drivers and pulled him over - as he did not try to out drive this garda, he can claim he did not "evade or refuse to stop" when requested.

It's all in the wording and many saw through it and MM finally realised what actually happened and simply could not have a person that is so economical with the truth in cabinet.

If only he gave the full story - people would be congratulating him on the honesty.

Yurt2

Allinall wrote: »

Why are you asking me?

You objected to the phrase gee-eyed. That's too bad.

Sorry, but I think most people bar the Healy Rae's would think that getting behind the wheel with drink on board is a huge ethical red-line.

Soft-peddling his behaviour, particularly as signs are pointing towards he tried to slither out of it on the night isn't on at all.

Hopefully people will use this as a learning opportunity that drink driving is no longer acceptable in any shape or form.

VinLieger

hawkwing wrote: »

I never voted for FF or FG in my life and probably won't. Good old Shane Ross another one :

Transport Minister Shane Ross has admitted he got behind the wheel while over the legal alcohol limit in the past.

When asked on 'Prime Time' last night if he had ever driven while over the legal alcohol limit, Mr Ross said: "Of course I have. You see, I haven't had a drink for 30 years or so. So it would have been a very long time ago. But of course I have. And I understand those dangers.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/shane-ross-admits-to-driving-while-over-legal-alcohol-limit-a-long-time-ago-35655084.html

30 years ago...... 2016..... yes thats the same thing entirely


Keep up with the whatabouerty though im sure it will achieve something one day.

CrankyHaus

maestroamado wrote: »

I think he was sacked because he said the Gardai report was incorrect.
There is no way in my view that a guard incorrectly recorded what happened.
It was totally stupid that a serving Minister thought he could question the integrity of the police force of the country.
I think but for that he would have survived.

So will he still be going through on his commitment to have the Garda record "corrected"?

McMurphy

farmertipp wrote: »

I'm sure there are plenty of people who sit in judgement here and in other media who have driven slightly over the legal limit.
Also many who are scoffing who see no issue with doing lines of coke even though it is contributing to mayhem and murder . These people make what Cowen done look like a shrinking violet

How many of these people are legislators would you reckon, in your humble opinion?

Cute Hoor

silver2020 wrote: »

I can drive with the same amount of alcohol as Cowen had and I'd have no fear of a checkpoint - why? Because I hold a full license and that permits me to drive once my ba level is under 50mg / 100ml.

Cowen had a learner permit, so very low ba driving level applied (20mg/100ml).


If he had been 100% truthful at the first opportunity and put himself at the mercy of people, he'd still be in his job. Instead he did a bailey and over explained and gave BS excuses.

There is no way he only had 2 pints BEFORE the match - his reading would have been near zero.

I'll guess he was flashed by other drivers and turned around before he saw the checkpoint - therefore he can "legitimately claim" he did not turn around when he saw the checkpoint, but that's just sugar coating it and is almost the same thing.

As is normal, there is another garda car watching for these sudden change of direction drivers and pulled him over - as he did not try to out drive this garda, he can claim he did not "evade or refuse to stop" when requested.

It's all in the wording and many saw through it and MM finally realised what actually happened and simply could not have a person that is so economical with the truth in cabinet.

If only he gave the full story - people would be congratulating him on the honesty.

100%, self-inflicted, but he could have killed this last week if he came out with his hands up.

RandomName2

awec wrote: »

One of the most amusing things about politics in Ireland is everyone whinges about corruption, about politicians getting above their station and about the low caliber of person that ends up sitting in the Dail.

Is that what happened here? Was Barry Cowen corrupt? Was he placed above his station? Is he someone of political low caliber?

I don't think so. He committed an offense and was duly punished for it at the time as far as I can see. If he had been using his mobile while driving it would be pretty much the same deal.

Ordinary citizens commit everyday offenses every day of the week. Should they? No. Should they face penalties for doing so? Of course. This seems to be an exact case in point. An ordinary citizen committed an everyday offense and faced the penalties anybody else would in the circumstances. However in this case it is brought up several years later in order to get him removed from a promotion he had just received.

Now if this wasn't the case, if he was blind drunk, recklessly driving, or evaded a garda point and then used political clout to make the offense be recorded as less significant, then you definitely would have a point. Not seeing the evidence for that though.

If you want your politicians to be of the people, for the people, by the people, you should have some understanding of what it means to be a person.

Snow Garden

maestroamado wrote: »

It was totally stupid that a serving Minister thought he could question the integrity of the police force of the country.

Well actually I disagree there on a point of principle. Any citizen should be able 'to question the integrity of the police force of the country'. It was one of the reasons that our police force became so corrupt. Only 3 TDs backed McCabe when he was trying to highlight how bad it was. The Garda commissioners felt untouchable.

farmertipp

McMurphy wrote: »

How many of these people are legislators would you reckon, in your humble opinion?

quiet a few actually.

farmertipp

McMurphy wrote: »

How many of these people are legislators would you reckon, in your humble opinion?

leaving tongue in cheek out of it I once witnessed a minister and driver both plastered trying to decide who would drive back in the day

Snow Garden

Are people totally blinkered here today? Do they think we know the full story?? Absolutely not.

He didn't answer any qustions! There were so many questions! Wise up.

https://www.thejournal.ie/it-just-beggars-belief-head-of-road-safety-group-says-questions-remain-over-cowen-drink-driving-ban-5144361-Jul2020/

Susan Gray – who founded PARC in 2006 after her husband Stephen died in a road traffic collision involving an unaccompanied learner driver in 2004 – told RTÉ’s Prime Time last night that the Minister was ignoring the “elephant in the room” and said Cowen has not answered any of her group’s outstanding questions.

“Not one of them,” Gray told the programme. “We are so disappointed with him.”

Questions, however, have been raised as to why Cowen – who was 48 at the time of the ban – was driving on a provisional licence and whether or not he had ever driven unaccompanied.

In a phone call yesterday morning with Cowen, Gray said the Minister told her he would answer “as many [questions] he could” during his Dáil statement but that questions remain.

“It just beggars belief that that man has ignored the huge elephant in the room here. He was driving on a learner permit for years and years. He’s admitted he drove unaccompanied, no L Plates,” said Gray.

Gray said she “just can’t believe” that her group’s questions around Cowen’s driver’s licence were not answered by the Minister.

CrankyHaus

CrankyHaus wrote: »

So will he still be going through on his commitment to have the Garda record "corrected"?

If he wouldn't talk about it before he won't want to talk about it now

But everyone wants to know so it's still a completely live issue hanging over him.

Not sure what he has to gain going ahead with this but until the information comes out it won't go away.

What a fooking calamity of sequential cock-ups that led to this situation that could have been avoided.

....Not being arsed to do a driving test for 20 years

Drink driving but at an amount that would not have resulted in a ban with a full licence

Spinning a U-ey at the check-pint in a panic

Having someone in your own party rat the story to the papers in a fit of pique

Completely mismanaging the situation with the garda report



Whatever about everything else didn't really display the sort of decision-making ability that you'd want in a minister

RandomName2

McMurphy wrote: »

How many of these people are legislators would you reckon, in your humble opinion?

I know you can't reply because you have just been banned (though I don't know what the reason was for that) but I find the hypocrisy funny and predictable that you should be so up in arms about Cowen's minor driving offense and be so forgiving of all the actions by Sinn Fein members. It's as if the motivation to attack Barry Cowen is predominantly due to the political party he is a part of, and the fact that it is in government, and not the driving offense. Well you could knock me down with a feather.

mariaalice

There are poster in any discussion on Irish politics or politicians, who seem to think politicians anointed themselves TD instead of being elected and once the poster consider the fact that the TD was actually elected they decide the electorate in the TD constituency are gombeens.

Its insulting to a lot of people.

awec

RandomName2 wrote: »

Is that what happened here? Was Barry Cowen corrupt? Was he placed above his station? Is he someone of political low caliber?

I don't think so. He committed an offense and was duly punished for it at the time as far as I can see. If he had been using his mobile while driving it would be pretty much the same deal.

Ordinary citizens commit everyday offenses every day of the week. Should they? No. Should they face penalties for doing so? Of course. This seems to be an exact case in point. An ordinary citizen committed an everyday offense and faced the penalties anybody else would in the circumstances. However in this case it is brought up several years later in order to get him removed from a promotion he had just received.

Now if this wasn't the case, if he was blind drunk, recklessly driving, or evaded a garda point and then used political clout to make the offense be recorded as less significant, then you definitely would have a point. Not seeing the evidence for that though.

If you want your politicians to be of the people, for the people, by the people, you should have some understanding of what it means to be a person.

Why do you think being blind drunk makes any difference? He was driving over the limit. This does not make him "of the people". This does not make him an "ordinary person".

He is unfit to hold public office, as he has proven to exercise extremely poor judgement on the most basic of things.

eagle eye

BonnieSituation wrote:

We get it. You're okay with a drink driver being a minister. And you're not a Fianna Fáil supporter. And you have no dead horse to flog regarding Simon Harris, or this week's bête noir, Leo Varadkar.

He initially paid the same price as everybody else for his drink driving. There's lots of people in lots of important positions who have been successfully prosecuted for drink driving.
I don't like that people drink drive and I'm delighted when they're caught. I don't believe is double punishment for it or any other traffic offense.

As regards Varadkar and Harris, I hold them responsible above all others for FF being in power and the surge in support for SF. I'll never forgive them for that. I'll never forgive Harris for the Children's hospital fiasco either.

maestroamado

Snow Garden wrote: »

Well actually I disagree there on a point of principle. Any citizen should be able 'to question the integrity of the police force of the country'. It was one of the reasons that our police force became so corrupt. Only 3 TDs backed McCabe when he was trying to highlight how bad it was. The Garda commissioners felt untouchable.

He has admitted he avoided the checkpoint.
So your of the opinion in this instance the Guard reported what happened incorrectly, i think this very unlikely.
It will all be revealed i am pretty confident it will have to be after what has happened.

megafan

hawkwing wrote: »

"ROAD safety tsar Gay Byrne yesterday admitted to drinking and driving in the past but said it was part of the Irish culture at the time.

He also confided he used to regularly drive home while over the limit, sometimes after presenting the 'Late Late Show'.

The Road Safety Authority (RSA) chairman made the surprising admission as he continues to campaign for responsible driving.

"I remember the days when I drove home from the 'Late Late Show' late at night -- the great thing in those days was to have a drink or two, or three, in the green room with the guests to thank them for coming and all that," he said."

The advice from Road Safety on TV & Newspaper ads at the time was "Only Two (Pints) will do" (& that was restricitive in 80's & 90's) so by todays levels everbody then was over the limit but at the time you could have two pints easily & not be near drink driving limit...

Different times...

ELM327

Stupid move to sack him for something that happened years ago and has already been punished for

farmertipp

megafan wrote: »

The advice from Road Safety on TV & Newspaper ads at the time was "Only Two (Pints) will do" (& that was restricitive in 80's & 90's) so by todays levels everbody then was over the limit but at the time you could have two pints easily & not be near drink driving limit...

Different times...

plus back then if you knew someone who had anything to do with taking drugs you would disown them .
people's perceptions of right and wrong have changed.
Not for better when it comes to narcs imo

Auguste Comte

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Strange decision to sack him for something,that he had done his penalty for,

Either you believe in rehabilition or you dont and we throw away key of anyone convicted of any offence.



The initial coverup was a bit galling,but not illegal imo

He wasn't really sacked though. He was demoted, he keeps the handy gig of being a TD with the nice salary, expenses and perks.

dundalkfc10

ELM327 wrote: »

Stupid move to sack him for something that happened years ago and has already been punished for

That's not what he was sacked for so stop playing the stupid card

ELM327

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

That's not what he was sacked for so stop playing the stupid card

As opposed to your "card" of well reasoned argument without playing the poster? Gimme a break. :rolleyes:

seamus

eagle eye wrote: »

He initially paid the same price as everybody else for his drink driving. There's lots of people in lots of important positions who have been successfully prosecuted for drink driving.
I don't like that people drink drive and I'm delighted when they're caught. I don't believe is double punishment for it or any other traffic offense.

As regards Varadkar and Harris, I hold them responsible above all others for FF being in power and the surge in support for SF. I'll never forgive them for that. I'll never forgive Harris for the Children's hospital fiasco either.

Honestly, this just tells me that it's all down to bias with you and nothing to do with individual actions.

Drink driving, driving on a provisional, turning back from a checkpoint - not a big deal, no need to disclose it, no need to talk about it.

Inheriting a project that's literally older than you are and has run over budget - unforgiveable.

Snow Garden

maestroamado wrote: »

He has admitted he avoided the checkpoint.
So your of the opinion in this instance the Guard reported what happened incorrectly, i think this very unlikely.
It will all be revealed i am pretty confident it will have to be after what has happened.

No my post had nothing to do with Cowen. Read it again.
Cowen deserves everything he gets. He is not telling the truth.

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

Stupid move to sack him for something that happened years ago and has already been punished for

He made a complete balls of not coming clean and in fact trying to cover up/ dispute what he did at / before the check point.

That's why he is ultimately gone.

Not because of his driving ban for drink driving

Snow Garden

ELM327 wrote: »

Stupid move to sack him for something that happened years ago and has already been punished for

Utter nonsense. He was in the Dail last week and did not answer a single question on his driving record. Wise up.

- We already know he drinks and drives
- He drives without an L plate
- He drives without an accompanied driver
- He does U-turns before checkpoints
- He wont answer questions in the Dail
- He tries to coverup stories (threatened the Sunday Indo)
- He had a provisional license for way too long

Obviously that's all fine with you so you deserve the politicians you get. Some of us want better.

dundalkfc10

ELM327 wrote: »

As opposed to your "card" of well reasoned argument without playing the poster? Gimme a break. :rolleyes:

He failed and refused to answer questions, said thhr Gardaí report was innacurate but wouldn't back anything he said up. He never answered any questions.

That is why he was sacked

leahyl

Who's gonna be made new minister for agriculture? Dara Calleary? Seems like the perfect opportunity to slot him in there now.

RandomName2

awec wrote: »

Why do you think being blind drunk makes any difference?

Yes I do, and the law does too. In fact the law says that Cowen was so non-intoxicated that if he had had a full driving licence he would have probably faced no penalty at all. 10mg-35mg of alcohol per 100ml of breath is not very intoxicated, by any standard. Is that important? Well if you are interested in whether he was a hazard, yes it is. If you are only interested in seeing a Fianna Fail minister get his comeuppance that it would merely be inconvenient.

awec wrote: »

He was driving over the limit. This does not make him "of the people". This does not make him an "ordinary person".

Data released to TheJournal.ie through a Freedom of Information request shows that a total of 516,390 people had points on their licences on 30 September 2019.

awec wrote: »

He is unfit to hold public office, as he has proven to exercise extremely poor judgement on the most basic of things.

Poor judgement? Yes, I suppose so. Unfit to hold public office? I don't think sufficient evidence has been shown to arrive at that position.