Barry Cowen sacked

Snow Garden

Some people seem to have FF Stockholm Syndrome. Weird.

Hurrache

What's the FF equivalent to Shinnerbots, Fiannaroids? Which ones are the decepticons and autobots?

Plumbthedepths

People fail to realise that even if in a party Politicians are sole traders and will throw one another to the wolves to save their own skin. This is exactly what Martin has done.

Millionaire only not

leahyl wrote: »

Who's gonna be made new minister for agriculture? Dara Calleary? Seems like the perfect opportunity to slot him in there now.

I think dara should take the opportunity and let it be know to media to tell Michae’l stick his job where the sun don’t shine .
He’s a bigger clown if he accepts it

RandomName2

Snow Garden wrote: »

Some people seem to have FF Stockholm Syndrome. Weird.

Hurrache wrote: »

What's the FF equivalent to Shinnerbots, Fiannadroids? Which ones are the decepticons and autobots?

You know, some would think that you aren't being objective about Barry Cowen and his offense, and would have a different opinion if he were part of a different party.

pah

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

He failed and refused to answer questions, said thhr Gardaí report was innacurate but wouldn't back anything he said up. He never answered any questions.

That is why he was sacked

It is difficult to prove that someone evaded a checkpoint by turning or pulling off the road. A report may have indicated the vehicle made certain maneuvers but a charge for same is a different story.

ohnonotgmail

RandomName2 wrote: »

You know, some would think that you aren't being objective about Barry Cowen and his offense, and would have a different opinion if he were part of a different party.

the offence is irrelevant. his downfall was his poor handling of the situation.

Former Former

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

People fail to realise that even if in a party Politicians are sole traders and will throw one another to the wolves to save their own skin. This is exactly what Martin has done.

Ah in fairness, Martin gave Cowen more than enough leeway. If Cowen had even a hint of real contrition about this, he'd still be a minister today.

His downfall was his own ego, not Micheal Martin.

Plumbthedepths

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

People fail to realise that even if in a party Politicians are sole traders and will throw one another to the wolves to save their own skin. This is exactly what Martin has done.

He couldn't stick by him any longer.

the checkpoint / garda report / Cowen's refusal to address it and the many other questions made his position untenable

McMurphy

RandomName2 wrote: »

I know you can't reply because you have just been banned (though I don't know what the reason was for that) but I find the hypocrisy funny and predictable that you should be so up in arms about Cowen's minor driving offense and be so forgiving of all the actions by Sinn Fein members. It's as if the motivation to attack Barry Cowen is predominantly due to the political party he is a part of, and the fact that it is in government, and not the driving offense. Well you could knock me down with a feather.

I have hacked the site and bypassed my ban just in order to come back to you.

Do yourself a favour and the check my first post on this thread (initial corresponding replies) and then get back to me. I was firmly in the camp of "was 4 years ago, minor transgression, time served, be grand" but as the story evolved, there was no way he could have remained in his position.

This "what about SF" is tiresome.

RandomName2

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

the offence is irrelevant. his downfall was his poor handling of the situation.

Threatening to sue I assume?

Zebra3

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

People fail to realise that even if in a party Politicians are sole traders and will throw one another to the wolves to save their own skin. This is exactly what Martin has done.

Nobody fails to realise this.

Do you actually think MM should have stuck by Cowen?

awec

RandomName2 wrote: »

Yes I do, and the law does too. In fact the law says that Cowen was so non-intoxicated that if he had had a full driving licence he would have probably faced no penalty at all. 10mg-35mg of alcohol per 100ml of breath is not very intoxicated, by any standard. Is that important? Well if you are interested in whether he was a hazard, yes it is. If you are only interested in seeing a Fianna Fail minister get his comeuppance that it would merely be inconvenient.

If he had a full license? If his granny had balls she'd be his grandad.

Data released to TheJournal.ie through a Freedom of Information request shows that a total of 516,390 people had points on their licences on 30 September 2019.

Ok? And?

Poor judgement? Yes, I suppose so. Unfit to hold public office? I don't think sufficient evidence has been shown to arrive at that position.

Seems pretty clear cut. Michael Martin seems to agree, and I suspect all except the most one-eyed FF loons too.

McMurphy

RandomName2 wrote: »

Yes I do, and the law does too. In fact the law says that Cowen was so non-intoxicated that if he had had a full driving licence he would have probably faced no penalty at all. 10mg-35mg of alcohol per 100ml of breath is not very intoxicated, by any standard. Is that important? Well if you are interested in whether he was a hazard, yes it is. If you are only interested in seeing a Fianna Fail minister get his comeuppance that it would merely be inconvenient.
.

And as I have said already, had he of intentionally ploughed through the checkpoint killing everyone present, he'd have served a considerable amount of time in prison.

He didn't though, and he didn't have a full license either. What if alternative universes weren't ever going to save his skin here.

RandomName2

awec wrote: »

If he had a full license? If his granny had balls she'd be his grandad.

So you admit that you don't care about the offense itself?

awec wrote: »

Ok? And?

Lots of people have minor driving offenses. It's not hugely abnormal.

ohnonotgmail

RandomName2 wrote: »

Threatening to sue I assume?

his speech in the Dail where refused to answer questions was the start of his downfall. the slippery words in his statement later about turning away from the checkpoint further compounded his problems. i have no idea who he threatened to sue but that never looks good either.

seamus

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

the offence is irrelevant. his downfall was his poor handling of the situation.

He should have gotten ahead of it. His Dail statement was basically, "I regret anyone having found out about this".

Whereas he should have made a statement that included the events of that day, the circumstances of how he was caught, and effectively ended the story.

Of course, he may have been penned into a corner. I suspect he's refusing to be drawn on the question of his licence because he's still driving around on a learner permit and hasn't done his test.

Which means that there's little he could ever have done to wriggle out of this.

There are so many of these little tripping points that parties should have a checklist/vetting form for all of their potential TDs. "Are you driving on a provisional licence", "Is your motor tax paid", "Do you have a TV licence", "Do you have a dog licence", "Obtain a tax clearance certificate", "Have you been arrested or penalised for any offences (including motoring) in the last ten years", "Do you have any criminal convictions", and so on.

Then when a TD is caught with their pants on fire, the party leader can just say, "They didn't disclose this, so I'm firing them". And the party comes out all shiny.

Snow Garden

RandomName2 wrote: »

You know, some would think that you aren't being objective about Barry Cowen and his offense, and would have a different opinion if he were part of a different party.

Is that a cowardly way of saying I am a shinnerbot or something?

Hurrache

RandomName2 wrote: »

You know, some would think that you aren't being objective about Barry Cowen and his offense, and would have a different opinion if he were part of a different party.

And the same some would be wrong, such is life.

It's childish that you would think because anyone agrees with his sacking is therefore only happy because he's from FF.

awec

RandomName2 wrote: »

So you admit that you don't care about the offense itself?



Lots of people have minor driving offenses. It's not hugely abnormal.

I don't care for your mental gymnastics in trying to pass Barry Cowen off as just a normal person getting screwed because he was unlucky to be caught drink driving.

Drink driving is not a minor driving offense, in fact in all cases it leads to an automatic driving ban rather than merely penalty points. I think the fact you struggle to understand this fact is feeding in to your struggle to understand why he's been given the boot.

Hurrache

Conor Lenihan, obviously in the pocket of Cowen on RTE radio implying that this is all related to the issues Garda McCabe brought up regards to Pulse, basically saying that the Pulse record was falsified to get Cowen into trouble.

The chair of the local GAA club tweeting that his 'firing' was like a bad sending off decision in a GAA match.

Gombeen politics back with an almighty bang.

Beechwoodspark

Conor lenihan is on RTÉ at the moment and bringing in the Maurice McCabe case and saying cowen has been treated very unfairly

Mrcaramelchoc

BRIAN GAVIN comparing the sacking decision to a gaa game says it all.its like an up yours to all the families shattered by drink drivers.have a few pjnts and get behind the wheel lads it be grand.
Good man brian.

Zebra3

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Conor lenihan is on RTÉ at the moment and bringing in the Maurice McCabe case and saying cowen has been treated very unfairly

They give that racist air time? :rolleyes:

seamus

Hurrache wrote: »

Conor Lenihan, obviously in the pocket of Cowen on RTE radio implying that this is all related to the issues Garda McCabe brought up regards to Pulse, basically saying that the Pulse record was falsified to get Cowen into trouble.

The chair of the local GAA club tweeting that his 'firing' was like a bad sending off decision in a GAA match.

Gombeen politics back with an almighty bang.

It's amusing to see the dynasties coming out to defend Cowen. They don't realise that people see their family name and are reminded of the past. If Lenihan has any sense he'd keep his head down and crawl back under his rock. His name is mud.

i have just this moment realised that i had conor lenihan and barry cowen essentially down as the same person in my head

and i mean, i may well go back to that outcome. arent they as well to be, honestly

eagle eye

seamus wrote:

Honestly, this just tells me that it's all down to bias with you and nothing to do with individual actions.
Drink driving, driving on a provisional, turning back from a checkpoint - not a big deal, no need to disclose it, no need to talk about it.
Inheriting a project that's literally older than you are and has run over budget - unforgiveable.

No bias as I don't like any if them.
Your second paragraph is about the current laws. Go get involved in doing something about it. I think if you drink drive on a provisional you should have your license taken off you for two years, have to complete a mandatory responsible driving course, with an exam you have to pass at the end of it, and then sit your theory test again before you are allowed back in the road.
As the laws stand, Cowen was punished like anybody else. He didn't get any special treatment because he was a TD.
As for the last bit, it ran over by billions under his remit.

gmisk

Zebra3 wrote: »

They give that racist air time? :rolleyes:

Oh yeah forgot about that, the kebabs comment....
He isnt even a TD any longer and is based in Russia working for some petro chemical company now I think. Who cares what he thinks

RandomName2

awec wrote: »

Drink driving is not a minor driving offense, in fact in all cases it leads to an automatic driving ban rather than merely penalty points.

Drunk driving is a spectrum, as is clear in the legislation. If you have 12 penalty points you receive twice the length of ban that Cowen received. This is not because drunk driving is not a serious offense, but because the details matter, legally. These details matter because they are used to assess the danger that the person poses.

Is everyone who receives penalty points or a temporary driving ban unfit to hold office? I doubt it. Does this mean I condone the behavior? Hardly. But I think that most people banging the drum are just doing it as an excuse. Indeed the story was discovered as an excuse. Now if there's more to this story than meets the eye (which is perfectly possible) then that's a different matter. Naturally it is at Martin's discretion who he hires and fires, such is the position.

Snow Garden wrote: »

Is that a cowardly way of saying I am a shinnerbot or something?

I really have no idea which (if any) political party you bat for, but I think it's fair to say that your motivation is not purely due to concern about road safety.

Personally I have little time for Fianna Fail. I think they are full of cronies, nepotism, back-handers, laissez-faire policies, and their political legacy is not a good one. Nonetheless I think that a government minister being sacked for a 3 month driving ban from years ago debases Irish politics a little bit more, which is really saying something given how low it already was.

McMurphy wrote: »

This "what about SF" is tiresome.

I am no huge fan of whataboutery. However I think it's no surprise that Sinn Fein supporters are loudest calling for the resignation or sacking of the FF minister. In general I think that that's clearly hypocritical.

Motivation and honesty is important. I am not putting [insert random PIRA murder here] because it's not relevant. Now that would be whataboutery.

gawd imagine still pretending that you actually thought

i. he was sacked for a minor offence and not his behaviour in the past week

ii. that a ministerial role was like any other job vis a vis how your boss will react to a minor offence


nobody can expect to be treated as posting in any sincerity if they are carrying on like they dont get the above