Barry Cowen sacked

BonnieSituation

farmertipp wrote: »

I'm sure there are plenty of people who sit in judgement here and in other media who have driven slightly over the legal limit.
Also many who are scoffing who see no issue with doing lines of coke even though it is contributing to mayhem and murder . These people make what Cowen done look like a shrinking violet

As a FFer, which do you regret more: his actions? his being caught? or the fact that he made you look foolish for nearly two weeks?

It strikes me that the natives seem to be restless and their Dear Leader better watch his back.

jmayo

Mortelaro wrote: »

There are degrees of arrogance in all politicians
You see it here with Cowen in not putting country before ministerial position
Similar with Ring over in Mayo and various others over not getting a ministry and obviously in SF's attitude to the Bobby Storey funeral

It is Ireland after all
I think MM only found his feet with this sacking
He better not lose them as there are a lot of decisions to be made soon and they don't need procrastination

Hey sunshine leave Ringer and Mayo out of this.
This is abut Biffos

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Yeah?

You prefer your ministers' to be thundering liars and obfuscating schnakes?

Isn't that a qualification for politicians the world over?

Seriously do some people think most politicians aren't liars and this includes the world over ?

As someone said today on radio, this would have eventually being swept under the carpet in the old days of FF, as new events would come to light to take it off the main pages of the newspapers and off mainstream media.
But social media can now keep things going and has a huge influence.

Also as per a lot of political endings, it is not the initial crime or misdemeanor that forces the politician out, it is the attempted coverup or how it is handled when it breaks in the media.

BonnieSituation

mariaalice wrote: »

There are poster in any discussion on Irish politics or politicians, who seem to think politicians anointed themselves TD instead of being elected and once the poster consider the fact that the TD was actually elected they decide the electorate in the TD constituency are gombeens.

Its insulting to a lot of people.

But it is very true in a lot of cases.

BonnieSituation

ELM327 wrote: »

Stupid move to sack him for something that happened years ago and has already been punished for

After 10 days of this that's what you reckon has happened here?

BonnieSituation

eagle eye wrote: »

He initially paid the same price as everybody else for his drink driving. There's lots of people in lots of important positions who have been successfully prosecuted for drink driving.
I don't like that people drink drive and I'm delighted when they're caught. I don't believe is double punishment for it or any other traffic offense.

As regards Varadkar and Harris, I hold them responsible above all others for FF being in power and the surge in support for SF. I'll never forgive them for that. I'll never forgive Harris for the Children's hospital fiasco either.

My god that's a painful read. Please stop.

Floppybits

Hurrache wrote: »

What's the FF equivalent to Shinnerbots, Fiannaroids? Which ones are the decepticons and autobots?

Ah they hiding under the bed like all those shinnerbots? I see a few posters who have been very vocal in the defence of Cowen and saying this was nothing have hidden under the bed.

BonnieSituation

RandomName2 wrote: »

Yes I do, and the law does too. In fact the law says that Cowen was so non-intoxicated that if he had had a full driving licence he would have probably faced no penalty at all. 10mg-35mg of alcohol per 100ml of breath is not very intoxicated, by any standard. Is that important? Well if you are interested in whether he was a hazard, yes it is. If you are only interested in seeing a Fianna Fail minister get his comeuppance that it would merely be inconvenient.

The law says nothing about "if he had a full licence".

The law cares not about the hypothetical question. So you can probably move on from that one I guess.

BonnieSituation

RandomName2 wrote: »

You know, some would think that you aren't being objective about Barry Cowen and his offense, and would have a different opinion if he were part of a different party.

Just like your goodself?

BonnieSituation

eagle eye wrote: »

No bias as I don't like any if them.
Your second paragraph is about the current laws. Go get involved in doing something about it. I think if you drink drive on a provisional you should have your license taken off you for two years, have to complete a mandatory responsible driving course, with an exam you have to pass at the end of it, and then sit your theory test again before you are allowed back in the road.
As the laws stand, Cowen was punished like anybody else. He didn't get any special treatment because he was a TD.
As for the last bit, it ran over by billions under his remit.

Like you say yourself, go get involved. Establish this mythical political party that you're saying we so desperately need.

BonnieSituation

RandomName2 wrote: »

Drunk driving is a spectrum, as is clear in the legislation. If you have 12 penalty points you receive twice the length of ban that Cowen received. This is not because drunk driving is not a serious offense, but because the details matter, legally. These details matter because they are used to assess the danger that the person poses.

Is everyone who receives penalty points or a temporary driving ban unfit to hold office? I doubt it. Does this mean I condone the behavior? Hardly. But I think that most people banging the drum are just doing it as an excuse. Indeed the story was discovered as an excuse. Now if there's more to this story than meets the eye (which is perfectly possible) then that's a different matter. Naturally it is at Martin's discretion who he hires and fires, such is the position.



I really have no idea which (if any) political party you bat for, but I think it's fair to say that your motivation is not purely due to concern about road safety.

Personally I have little time for Fianna Fail. I think they are full of cronies, nepotism, back-handers, laissez-faire policies, and their political legacy is not a good one. Nonetheless I think that a government minister being sacked for a 3 month driving ban from years ago debases Irish politics a little bit more, which is really saying something given how low it already was.




I am no huge fan of whataboutery. However I think it's no surprise that Sinn Fein supporters are loudest calling for the resignation or sacking of the FF minister. In general I think that that's clearly hypocritical.

Motivation and honesty is important. I am not putting [insert random PIRA murder here] because it's not relevant. Now that would be whataboutery.

Good God man. That's right up there.

hurler32

The man was marginally over the limit four years ago . Big fcuking deal . He got the same punishment as everybody else.
Many many people in this country have drove marginally below or marginally over the limit in the not too distant past , now we're a holier than though brigade vilifying anyone who doesnt agree with our politics. What next some politician from a party we dont like didn't have a dog license ten years ago???
Whod want to be a politician??

nacho libre

antimatterx wrote: »

I think this is harsh. It occurred in 2016.

You think it's harsh on Barry. Maybe if Barry had set as precedent by admitting it at the time he would not be feeling hard done by now. He might have even saved himself when it was leaked if he admitted everything instead of choosing to take on the Guards.

Instead he opted not to be transparent, so he has had to learn the hard way that it's usually not the crime that does you in but the cover up. Maybe it's hard to break with the culture of concealment that surrounds his party. It's probably easier for party loyalists on this thread now to focus the blame on the person who leaked what happened rather than Barry's decisions

BonnieSituation

awec wrote: »

But he wasn't on a full license?

I don't really want to engage on the rest of your waffle because to be honest, having a discussion with someone who is downplaying drink driving and passing off a convicted drink driver as "of the people" or "an ordinary person" because they were unlucky enough to be caught is beneath me and a waste of my time.

Awec, your patience for engagement thus far is to be commended.

eagle eye

BonnieSituation wrote:

You're a gas man

BonnieSituation wrote:

You prefer your ministers' to be thundering liars and obfuscating schnakes?

BonnieSituation wrote:

As a FFer, which do you regret more: his actions? his being caught? or the fact that he made you look like a gullible fool for nearly two weeks?

Imagine it's not you that posted all this in the last hour and what you'd think of the person posting it

eagle eye

Also, is there a big social media brigade going after this Buckley guy now?

Hurrache

hurler32 wrote: »

The man was marginally over the limit four years ago . Big fcuking deal . He got the same punishment as everybody else.
Many many people in this country have drove marginally below or marginally over the limit in the not too distant past , now we're a holier than though brigade vilifying anyone who doesnt agree with our politics. What next some politician from a party we dont like didn't have a dog license ten years ago???
Whod want to be a politician??

Purposely missing the whole point of the thing?

BonnieSituation

eagle eye wrote: »

Imagine it's not you that posted all this in the last hour and what you'd think of the person posting it

I think BonnieSituation is a great poster of the highest integrity. You could learn a lot from them.

BonnieSituation

Hurrache wrote: »

Purposely missing the whole point of the thing?

I like that even after he's been sacked they're still peddling the same nonsense.

Why do they think it would work now even though it's been 10 days since they started this crusade and it had failed thus far?

Hurrache

Some failed 'politician' on Newstalk blaming it all on the journalists and that they should be all brought in to answer some serious questions, gotta love the hardcore gombeen FFers.

It also made me realise why I stopped listening to this particular show a long time ago.

banie01

Just watching leaders questions now.
Whomever is advising Alan Kelly on his approach to attacking the Taoseaich today has played a blinder.

Imagine managing to make AK look like a competent opposition leader, the issues regarding Pulse, SAR and DPA and its potential impact is huge.

That MM has now actually acknowledged bit was a pulse file he has seen is of grave concern.

Ae Fond Kiss

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I think BonnieSituation is a great poster of the highest integrity. You could learn a lot from them.

Are you trying to up your post count or do you have absolutely nothing to do?

hurler32

hurler32 wrote: »

The man was marginally over the limit four years ago . Big fcuking deal . He got the same punishment as everybody else.
Many many people in this country have drove marginally below or marginally over the limit in the not too distant past , now we're a holier than though brigade vilifying anyone who doesnt agree with our politics. What next some politician from a party we dont like didn't have a dog license ten years ago???
Whod want to be a politician??

he made a complete bollix of the way he went about trying to avoid revealing the actual actions that he took at / near the checkpoint -> that's why he is gone.

drink-driving in itself is wrong but that has very very little to do with why he actually is gone - and nothing to do with being holier than thou.

Floppybits

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

To the defenders of Cowen , he's gone lads. Back bench nobody.

I wouldn't agree that he is back bench nobody, I would say he is a very dangerous person to have sitting on the back bench. There are some amount of anti MM supporters now sitting on the back bench now. Martin is in a very precarious position now and I'd say the odds have shortened on him still being Taoiseach in Dec 22.

FF will now hold the record of shortest serving Taoiseach and shortest serving minister. On a serious note though the FF party looks to be in disarray now with alot of unhappy people in there. It seems that Martin is losing control of the party. I would also expect now there will be leaks targeting people in other parties involved in government to even up the score.

nc6000

Who will the replacement be? I'd say Martin would prefer to bring in someone who hasn't been given a post rather than have to do a bit of a shuffle so soon.

TheCitizen

hurler32 wrote: »

The man was marginally over the limit four years ago . Big fcuking deal . He got the same punishment as everybody else.
Many many people in this country have drove marginally below or marginally over the limit in the not too distant past , now we're a holier than though brigade vilifying anyone who doesnt agree with our politics. What next some politician from a party we dont like didn't have a dog license ten years ago???
Whod want to be a politician??

I don't think he got sacked for that. He got sacked because he wouldn't clarify on the trying to evade a Garda checkpoint part of the story. I think.

It's been one of the strangest sackings ever in my opinion. The drip feeding of the story is what done for him and who was behind that. How did the Sunday Times know about it before Micheal Martin was furnished with the Pulse report?

Montage of Feck

I'm getting very suspicious about the whole thing, this is a relatively minor matter that is being blown out of proportion. Either internally the FF membership are rabid dogs hungry for power or its a smokescreen for a bigger scandal.

Plumbthedepths

Floppybits wrote: »

I wouldn't agree that he is back bench nobody, I would say he is a very dangerous person to have sitting on the back bench. There are some amount of anti MM supporters now sitting on the back bench now. Martin is in a very precarious position now and I'd say the odds have shortened on him still being Taoiseach in Dec 22.

FF will now hold the record of shortest serving Taoiseach and shortest serving minister. On a serious note though the FF party looks to be in disarray now with alot of unhappy people in there. It seems that Martin is losing control of the party. I would also expect now there will be leaks targeting people in other parties involved in government to even up the score.

Jim O Callaghan has already started the leadership challenge, John McGuinness ( despite being FF, I have respect for him) has been calling for Martin to go for several years.
I will be genuinely surprised if Martin gets to finish the term agreed between himself and Leo. Assuming of course this government even lasts that long.

smelly sock

AGS have informed the watchdog about a potential misuse of the PULSE and the disclosure of information held within.

This kinda ****e needs to stop. I'd hope that whatever members accessed this for the purposes of leaking it to the media is sacked. I hope Harris has the cojones to do so thus setting a precedent.

AMKC

I feel very sorry for Barry Cowen. The whole thing is utterly stupid. He made a mistake. It was 4 years ago for fu ck sake. He did not deserve to be sacked. As for Micheal Martin I do not think he is doing a good job so far. The ironic thing is if they had not been in power Barry Cowen would still be a TD.

TheCitizen

smelly sock wrote: »

AGS have informed the watchdog about a potential misuse of the PULSE and the disclosure of information held within.

This kinda ****e needs to stop. I'd hope that whatever members accessed this for the purposes of leaking it to the media is sacked. I hope Harris has the cojones to do so thus setting a precedent.

That's very serious. Must've been money handed over.