Barry Cowen sacked

TheCitizen

TheCitizen wrote: »

Martin is hopeless. FF used to be the Republican party Martin has turned them into a pale shade of FGLite.

Cowen said he was waiting on legal advice. Martin should have waited for that process to go through and then ask for his resignation if needed. Instead he panicked for fear of what FG or the Greens panicking. Doesn't look like Martin will be a good Taoiseach. SF and the rest of the opposition will have plenty to pick at with this government.

Dail sessions consisting of 100% of the time taken up with other FF TD's fielding questions on Cowen who wouldn't answer them himself couldn't go on.

It was untenable.

Had to be sacked.

He has only himself to blame for putting himself in the situation with the the irregularities discussed ad infinitum etc

Danzy

TheCitizen wrote: »

Martin is hopeless. FF used to be the Republican party Martin has turned them into a pale shade of FGLite.

Cowen said he was waiting on legal advice. Martin should have waited for that process to go through and then ask for his resignation if needed. Instead he panicked for fear of what FG or the Greens panicking. Doesn't look like Martin will be a good Taoiseach. SF and the rest of the opposition will have plenty to pick at with this government.

Cowen left Martin no choice but to riee him. Regardless of process, there was enough there at this stage.

The initial problem was dealt with and in the past but it kept growing and Cowen kept handling it wrong.

smelly sock

Danzy wrote: »

Cowen left Martin no choice but to riee him. Regardless of process, there was enough there at this stage.

The initial problem was dealt with and in the past but it kept growing and Cowen kept handling it wrong.

Once Mehole hesitated and dithered when this first broke he was fecked. After initially giving Cownen the ok he need to wait for the legal advice to come through.

Martin fecked up here big time. Lack of leadership and clueless of what to actually do.

Snow Garden

McMurphy wrote: »

Anyone hear Fionnan Sheehan say that it was reported that O'Cuiv, McGuinness and Cowen were apparently spotted somewhere last night presumably having a meeting?

Cowen would be stupid to associate himself with o'Cuiv. Not only have FF not changed, they seem to have gone back in time.

This government will ruin FF once and for all. This pleases me.

TheCitizen

glasso wrote: »

Dail sessions consisting of 100% of the time taken up with other FF TD's fielding questions on Cowen who wouldn't answer them himself couldn't go on.

It was untenable.

Had to be sacked.

He has only himself to blame for putting himself in the situation with the the irregularities discussed ad infinitum etc

They would have got their Dail session with him and he would have had to resign if it was proven to be untenable. I think Martin is weak. He is weak, he has not been able to win the sort of support needed for a Taoiseach to lead with confidence.

Muahahaha

glasso wrote: »

there is some truth in what you say.

does make the local populace look like gombeens as a result but it's an RTE standard "production" whenever something like this happens -> the big moment for the regional RTE guy who was too ugly to make it up in the smoke in Dublin to get in front of the camera.

not going to be cancelled any time soon.

I think those reports after a Minister gets sacked are precisely RTE showing the gombeen nature of the locals, of course RTE will say its to provide balance but they know what theyre doing.

Its always the same when a politician has a fall from grace, they come out and say he was hard done by and he had done so much for the area. They might as well just come out and say 'sure he fixed the road'. I found it a bit sad listening to them, Offaly and the midlands at large are unemployment black spots that have been left behind. Its only going to get worse with the shuttering of Bord na Mona. Yet the locals will tell you that Cowen has fixed the roads, they're easily placated.

TheCitizen

TheCitizen wrote: »

They would have got their Dail session with him and he would have had to resign if it was proven to be untenable. I think Martin is weak. He is weak, he has not been able to win the sort of support needed for a Taoiseach to lead with confidence.

Cowen had his chance for the Dail Session and turned it down.

If he was such a follower of "process" how did he manage to get the Pulse report in an incredulously short time - probably because he had it already!

Martin is a drip but he was dammed if you do, dammed if you don't in this case.

TheCitizen

Snow Garden wrote: »

Cowen would be stupid to associate himself with o'Cuiv. Not only have FF not changed, they seem to have gone back in time.

This government will ruin FF once and for all. This pleases me.

FF are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Go back to Dev jnr and socially conservative stuff that’s outdated or carry on with Micheál’s mission to turn FF into FG Lite.

Zebra3

TheCitizen wrote: »

FF are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Go back to Dev jnr and socially conservative stuff that’s outdated or carry on with Micheál’s mission to turn FF into FG Lite.

Well, they could hardly carry on as the party of shysters and spivs that gave us Haughey, Ahern, Lawlor and Burke.

Ray Burke. They actually called him Rambo.

Auguste Comte

Zebra3 wrote: »

Well, they could hardly carry on as the party of shysters and spivs that gave us Haughey, Ahern, Lawlor and Burke.

I live in hope rather than expectation.

Cute Hoor

Snow Garden wrote: »

Cowen would be stupid to associate himself with o'Cuiv. Not only have FF not changed, they seem to have gone back in time.

This government will ruin FF once and for all. This pleases me.

Will be interesting to see how this pans out long term for the parties. With all previous coalitions the weaker party took the hammering but this could be different with the 3 way set-up. The Greens could hold their vote reasonably well if they get a few cycle lanes built and manage to reduce the CO2 emissions. The Blueshirts have always been the party of the establishment, big farmers, IBEC, IFA, west-brits, lawn order (although it would be hard to argue that one over the last 2 Dails), they will hold this vote through thick and thin (will obviously see-saw from time to time depending on what’s happening) but hard to see their vote ever dropping much below 20%. The Soldiers were traditionally the catch all (the rest) party, small farmer, ISME, ICMSA, blue collar, Irish language, it served them well historically, but then in the nineties and noughties they went fishing in the Blueshirt's pond (with some success at the time) with their attraction to the Galway Tent and everything associated with it, the problem being for them that they largely abandoned their traditional base to the Shinners, left wingers of all shapes and sizes, and a plethora of Independents. They have really struggled to get that support base back and it is almost impossible to see it returning, certainly for the next election.

Where are the Soldiers going to be getting the vote from at the next General Election, the Blueshirts will have their rock solid 20% (+ or a small - depending on how things are going) but who will be voting for the Soldiers, they will obviously be picking up Blueshirt preferences, but a vote for the Soldiers will effectively be a vote to put the Blueshirts back into power, it is hard to see anybody other than the diehard Soldiers supporting them. Maybe they will perform brilliantly in Government and be revitalised but I think this could very well be existential for the Soldiers.

BonnieSituation

eagle eye wrote: »

I'm asked by because you haven't given an answer from what I've read, you just keep deflecting back to Cowen.

I've deflected back to Cowen in the Barry Cowen thread?

Who'd've thunk it!

eagle eye

BonnieSituation wrote:

I've deflected back to Cowen in the Barry Cowen thread?

Who'd've thunk it!

So refusing to answer on if SF should do something about Buckley?

freshpopcorn

Snow Garden wrote: »

Cowen would be stupid to associate himself with o'Cuiv. Not only have FF not changed, they seem to have gone back in time.

This government will ruin FF once and for all. This pleases me.

I know a good few people who are FF supporters and always have been.
I’ve never seen them so against them and turning away from them since Micheál because Taoiseach. They think he’s a nice man but a pure useless leader.

joseywhales

Cute Hoor wrote: »

Will be interesting to see how this pans out long term for the parties. With all previous coalitions the weaker party took the hammering but this could be different with the 3 way set-up. The Greens could hold their vote reasonably well if they get a few cycle lanes built and manage to reduce the CO2 emissions. The Blueshirts have always been the party of the establishment, big farmers, IBEC, IFA, west-brits, lawn order (although it would be hard to argue that one over the last 2 Dails), they will hold this vote through thick and thin (will obviously see-saw from time to time depending on what’s happening) but hard to see their vote ever dropping much below 20%. The Soldiers were traditionally the catch all (the rest) party, small farmer, ISME, ICMSA, blue collar, Irish language, it served them well historically, but then in the nineties and noughties they went fishing in the Blueshirt's pond (with some success at the time) with their attraction to the Galway Tent and everything associated with it, the problem being for them that they largely abandoned their traditional base to the Shinners, left wingers of all shapes and sizes, and a plethora of Independents. They have really struggled to get that support base back and it is almost impossible to see it returning, certainly for the next election.

Where are the Soldiers going to be getting the vote from at the next General Election, the Blueshirts will have their rock solid 20% (+ or a small - depending on how things are going) but who will be voting for the Soldiers, they will obviously be picking up Blueshirt preferences, but a vote for the Soldiers will effectively be a vote to put the Blueshirts back into power, it is hard to see anybody other than the diehard Soldiers supporting them. Maybe they will perform brilliantly in Government and be revitalised but I think this could very well be existential for the Soldiers.

There are rural families that have all voted for FF for many decades in every election, they could not countenance any other option. However I think you are right, these people are either very old,migrated to Dublin or dead now and they certainly don't have 10 children families anymore.

walshb

Danzy wrote: »

Cowen left Martin no choice but to riee him. Regardless of process, there was enough there at this stage.

The initial problem was dealt with and in the past but it kept growing and Cowen kept handling it wrong.

The initial problem was not dealt with.

Martin should have sacked him immediately when he found out about the drink driving incident.

Gone....

People seem to be downplaying this man getting into a car with drink on board and driving...

And making out that the issue is his not wanting to answer questions...

His "crime" was drinking and driving....that alone, should have seen him sacked...

Then questions could be looked at and asked...

Martin showed real weakness here in my view...

BonnieSituation

TheCitizen wrote: »

FF are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Go back to Dev jnr and socially conservative stuff that’s outdated or carry on with Micheál’s mission to turn FF into FG Lite.

They could also do us a favour and melt away. That would be most preferable.

BonnieSituation

Cute Hoor wrote: »

Will be interesting to see how this pans out long term for the parties. With all previous coalitions the weaker party took the hammering but this could be different with the 3 way set-up. The Greens could hold their vote reasonably well if they get a few cycle lanes built and manage to reduce the CO2 emissions. The Blueshirts have always been the party of the establishment, big farmers, IBEC, IFA, west-brits, lawn order (although it would be hard to argue that one over the last 2 Dails), they will hold this vote through thick and thin (will obviously see-saw from time to time depending on what’s happening) but hard to see their vote ever dropping much below 20%. The Soldiers were traditionally the catch all (the rest) party, small farmer, ISME, ICMSA, blue collar, Irish language, it served them well historically, but then in the nineties and noughties they went fishing in the Blueshirt's pond (with some success at the time) with their attraction to the Galway Tent and everything associated with it, the problem being for them that they largely abandoned their traditional base to the Shinners, left wingers of all shapes and sizes, and a plethora of Independents. They have really struggled to get that support base back and it is almost impossible to see it returning, certainly for the next election.

Where are the Soldiers going to be getting the vote from at the next General Election, the Blueshirts will have their rock solid 20% (+ or a small - depending on how things are going) but who will be voting for the Soldiers, they will obviously be picking up Blueshirt preferences, but a vote for the Soldiers will effectively be a vote to put the Blueshirts back into power, it is hard to see anybody other than the diehard Soldiers supporting them. Maybe they will perform brilliantly in Government and be revitalised but I think this could very well be existential for the Soldiers.

The future is bright so for the country.

We can but hope that this government is the last hurrah for them and they'll end up as a socially conservative rump moaning about "Rure-del Oire-land". I'll crack open a cold one when that day arrives.

Snow Garden

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I know a good few people who are FF supporters and always have been.
I’ve never seen them so against them and turning away from them since Micheál because Taoiseach. They think he’s a nice man but a pure useless leader.

Ah yes. FF are yearning for good leaders again.

The previous 4 were;

Brian Cowen
Bertie Ahern
Albert Reynolds
Charles Haughey.

I rest my case.

Bannasidhe

Muahahaha wrote: »

Its only going to get worse with the shuttering of Bord na Mona. Yet the locals will tell you that Cowen has fixed the roads, they're easily placated.

It's been about 10 years since I was in Cowen Country but the memory of the roads has stayed with me.
They. were. magnificent.

I can hand on heart say the Coveney has done jack s*it for the roads in Cork..although it must be said the bit leading to his town isn't too bad. I drove past Martin's house today on the way to visit the Mammy and the roads are like patchwork quilts of shoddy repairs. But at least there are repairs.

Whatever reason people in Cork SC have for voting for Coveney, Martin, McGrath etc is ain't cos they fixed the roads.

eagle eye

Snow Garden wrote:

Brian Cowen Bertie Ahern Albert Reynolds Charles Haughey.
I rest my case.

Fill us in on what Albert Reynolds did.

John Hutton

eagle eye wrote: »

Fill us in on what Albert Reynolds did.

Beef tribunal

Danzy

eagle eye wrote: »

Fill us in on what Albert Reynolds did.

Are we now pretending Albert was honest?

CrankyHaus

BonnieSituation wrote: »

The future is bright so for the country.

We can but hope that this government is the last hurrah for them and they'll end up as a socially conservative rump moaning about "Rure-del Oire-land". I'll crack open a cold one when that day arrives.

I think FF did a lot for the country in the past, notwithstanding their many flaws. In this coalition I thought they'd at least be able to show FG a thing or two about building housing. I actually never realised they'd be stupid enough to turn the Scrap Saturday tribute act back up to 11 the second they got in.

Auguste Comte

eagle eye wrote: »

So refusing to answer on if SF should do something about Buckley?

It seems that SF are doing the exact same thing as Fianna Fáil. Ie. leaving their TD with drink driving and other offences in their recent history in place to support their parties.

What do you think the respective party leaders should do with their law breaking representatives?

NickNickleby

eagle eye wrote: »

Fill us in on what Albert Reynolds did.

Selling passports

eagle eye

Danzy wrote:

Are we now pretending Albert was honest?

I think he shouldn't be just thrown in with the other three as if he was as bad as them.

BonnieSituation

CrankyHaus wrote: »

I think FF did a lot for the country in the past, notwithstanding their many flaws. In this coalition I thought they'd at least be able to show FG a thing or two about building housing. I actually never realised they'd be stupid enough to turn the Scrap Saturday tribute act back up to 11 the second they got in.

When you think that Lemass was an FFer, you have to remind yourself that there's no way he would be a member of this Fianna Fáil.

To drag this country out from under Dev and then hand it over to Lynch and the rest of the Gombeens that succeeded him does not mean we should still be grateful to this day to FF for the good done under Lemass. They squandered that goodwill.

Plumbthedepths

eagle eye wrote: »

I think he shouldn't be just thrown in with the other three as if he was as bad as them.

Still bad but not as bad? That's not really a great distinction tbh.

joseywhales

its never a case of all good or all bad. There was a lot of foreign direct investment, motorway infrastructure, participation in the peace process and the economic reality of the average irish person increased dramatically from the 80's up to the crisis.

That's not to say there weren't a bunch of self serving ministers in there during that time.