Yay!!!! Ireland wins appeal at Europe's General Court!!

Robert McGrath

The Rooster wrote: »

You're probably a little bit tongue-in-cheek, but 12.5% is our trademark. It's been there a long time, it's got through a lot of international pressure to be changed, but it's still set in stone.

Moving it down wouldn't give a whole heap of benefit, but it would create some uncertainty. "If it can move down, it can move up", etc. Companies who make the investment to create jobs here crave stability and predictability. Knowing that our 12.5% rate is here to stay, no matter what, is a great trademark, and moving it even slightly, up or down, would negatively impact on that.

Well put

Shefwedfan

christy c wrote: »

Pearse and his cohorts in full soundbite mode:

https://www.thejournal.ie/apple-ruling-5150635-Jul2020/

He must be feeling more stupid than usual after his party saying we should have spent this money only a short time ago.

SF = idiots

The Rooster

Shefwedfan wrote: »

SF = idiots

Actually, I'd say Doherty is clever.

When he's saying stuff that is clearly wrong he attributes it to other people.

He's not an idiot, but he knows it's the idiots that are his audience, and who lap this stuff up.

christy c

The Rooster wrote: »

Actually, I'd say Doherty is clever.

When he's saying stuff that is clearly wrong he attributes it to other people.

He's not an idiot, but he knows it's the idiots that are his audience, and who lap this stuff up.

That's even more dangerous if accurate, using cynical policies promote himself/his party.

ednwireland

i see richard boyd-barrat throwing out the same line, im sure his audience will look throughly at the validity of his statement

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/politics/government-should-hang-heads-shame-22359414

fr336

While I agree that given the world we find ourselves in this was probably the best course of action for Ireland at the present time, always funny to see the corporate fanboys out lapping up their blame the welfare scroungers saucer of milk. Good work lads!

Jimbob1977

To the layperson, it sounds counter-intuitive to "win" a case that appears to lose €13 billion of sweet, sweet money.

If we had lost:

o Much of the €13 billion would have been redistributed to other nations anyway. It wasn't ours to keep.

o It would have called our entire tax policy and tax legislation into question.

Other corporations might have been implicated and sent FDI running away from Ireland. That's the rub.

liamog

So the crux of it is, in 1991 and 2007 Revenue reviewed the structures created by Apple, and we agreed that they were sufficient structured that we would only levy tax on Ireland's portion of the revenue.
Any other tax owed was somebody elses problem to deal with.

In 2010, OECD countries agreed new guidelines on transfer pricing. In the case against revenue, it looks like the commission tried to use the new guidelines to prove the rulings in 1991 and 2007 were invalid.
This is akin to me changing the drinking age to 25 from next week, and then closing a pub for serving a 22 year old last month.

James Brown

christy c wrote: »

It's fantastic for Ireland. It was alleged that Ireland had given illegal state aid, the ruling today debunks that.

Yes, Ireland (as it stands) was completely within it's right giving the U.S. corporate giant a tax rate so low it nearly collapsed in on itself.
Pats on the head all round.

walshb

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

To the layperson, it sounds counter-intuitive to "win" a case that appears to lose €13 billion of sweet, sweet money.

If we had lost:

o Much of the €13 billion would have been redistributed to other nations anyway. It wasn't ours to keep.

o It would have called our entire tax policy and tax legislation into question.

Other corporations might have been implicated and sent FDI running away from Ireland. That's the rub.

Exactly

This is not the government on trial. It is the people. Our people were accused of wrongdoing...Revenue are people, a machine of the people, and for the people, was accused of wrongdoing, and damn well fair play to our country defending them.....

SF and the rest.....and their magic and free money, pandering to the populist layabouts in society....grates me..

But no doubt had FG and FF been in opposition they too would be on the SF side here....

All weasling!

The whole county should have united here when this arose....all on the side of the people.....our revenue!

We needed Notorious McGregor: When one goes to war, we all go to war!!!

christy c

Bowie wrote: »

Yes, Ireland (as it stands) was completely within it's right giving the U.S. corporate giant a tax rate so low it nearly collapsed in on itself.
Pats on the head all round.

They paid 12.5% on their Irish profit was my understanding and the rates Apple paid were available to all companies.

I think big losers here are people like Pearse Doherty, RBB, etc. who look even more stupid than usual. No pats on the head for them.

James Brown

walshb wrote: »

Exactly

This is not the government on trial. It is the people. Our people were accused of wrongdoing...Revenue are people, a machine of the people, and for the people, was accused of wrongdoing, and damn well fair play to our country defending them.....

SF and the rest.....and their magic and free money, pandering to the populist layabouts in society....grates me..

But no doubt had FG and FF been in opposition they too would be on the SF side here....

All weasling!

The whole county should have united here when this arose....all on the side of the people.....our revenue!

We needed Notorious McGregor: When one goes to war, we all go to war!!!

The tax payer, (worker) funds all sorts of quangos, crony deals and if something goes a few hundred million over estimated budget, no worries, we can borrow off the tax payers back and cut back on services, blame the sick and poor. Why on earth would you need a magic money tree?

tjhook

stoneill wrote: »

The other side of this is that Apple have gotten away with a 13 billion tax fraud.

Do you consider everybody who's found not guilty in a court of law to have "gotten way with it"?

Wanderer78

walshb wrote: »

Exactly

This is not the government on trial. It is the people. Our people were accused of wrongdoing...Revenue are people, a machine of the people, and for the people, was accused of wrongdoing, and damn well fair play to our country defending them.....

SF and the rest.....and their magic and free money, pandering to the populist layabouts in society....grates me..

But no doubt had FG and FF been in opposition they too would be on the SF side here....

All weasling!

The whole county should have united here when this arose....all on the side of the people.....our revenue!

We needed Notorious McGregor: When one goes to war, we all go to war!!!

while the rest pander to the true parasites of society, the fire sectors, who can print money largely freely, and turn it into our debts!

fr336

walshb wrote: »

Exactly

This is not the government on trial. It is the people. Our people were accused of wrongdoing...Revenue are people, a machine of the people, and for the people, was accused of wrongdoing, and damn well fair play to our country defending them.....

SF and the rest.....and their magic and free money, pandering to the populist layabouts in society....grates me..

But no doubt had FG and FF been in opposition they too would be on the SF side here....

All weasling!

The whole county should have united here when this arose....all on the side of the people.....our revenue!

We needed Notorious McGregor: When one goes to war, we all go to war!!!

Is this a parody post? Top work if so.

statesaver

Are there people here who think the 13 billion was Irelands and Irelands only ???

Clowns.

Onshuh

Great result for Ireland.

JPCN1

murpho999 wrote: »

It's not tax evasion though.

Apple and Ireland have been found to have acted correctly.

You do realise that Apple and lots of other companies would not be here otherwise and that would mean the non existence of thousands of direct jobs as well as thousands more in ancillary services plus construction work, VAT, income tax etc.

This is a much better decision for Ireland.

Many, many thousands of direct jobs... 245 thousand or 10% of the workforce.

Right decision for Ireland thankfully.

ArchXStanton

Bowie wrote: »

The only fraud would be selling it like a victory for Ireland.

"Apple and Ireland win €13bn tax appeal" - RTE

James Brown

ArchXStanton wrote: »

"Apple and Ireland win €13bn tax appeal" - RTE

As with Trump and the U.S. we can only hope global society sees the separation between the Irish government and the good people.

ArchXStanton

Bowie wrote: »

As with Trump and the U.S. we can only hope global society sees the separation between the Irish government and the good people.

I'd be of the opinion they're all as bad each other, Apple, the EU, the Irish government for different reasons in this saga

Wanderer78

JPCN1 wrote: »

Many, many thousands of direct jobs... 245 thousand or 10% of the workforce.

Right decision for Ireland thankfully.

leaving the essential act of taxation at the foot of irish citizens, including sme's, the largest employers of the state!

Shefwedfan

Bowie wrote: »

Yes, Ireland (as it stands) was completely within it's right giving the U.S. corporate giant a tax rate so low it nearly collapsed in on itself.
Pats on the head all round.

I’m glad you agree....it’s great isn’t it

Well done the Irish government

Huge win for Ireland

weldoninhio

Pherekydes wrote: »

Whatever happened to the idea that everyone should pay their fair share of taxes?

Apple paid all tax due in Ireland.

Shefwedfan

Bowie wrote: »

As with Trump and the U.S. we can only hope global society sees the separation between the Irish government and the good people.

Would be interesting to hear what you classify as “good people”?

paul71

Bambi wrote: »

The ECJ has massively overreached its original purpose. Nation states are governed by Parliaments not a panel of Judges.

Eh? No, the ECJ did not over-reach. The relevant commissioner over-reached and the EJC has slapped that commissioner down by this judgement.

Onshuh

Onshuh wrote: »

Great result for Ireland.

Some believe that it’s a great result for the capitalist elite.

James Brown

Deleted User wrote: »

Some believe that it’s a great result for the capitalist elite.

Isn't it? Or would paying more tax be preferable to them?

Galwayguy35

Was it taxpayers money that paid for the actual court case the Government took against the EU I wonder?

Shefwedfan

I think a few people might read this before making comment

Ireland's rejection of the EU Commission's "windfall" in back-taxes surprised some.However, in § Understanding Irish decision, US-controlled multinationals are 25 of Ireland's top 50 companies; pay over 80% of all Irish corporate taxes (circa €8 billion per annum); directly employ 10 percent of the Irish labour force which rises to 23 percent when public sector, agri and finance jobs are excluded (and indirectly pay half of all Irish salary taxes); and are 57 percent of all non-farm OECD value-add in the Irish economy. In June 2018, the American–Ireland Chamber of Commerce estimated the value of US investment in Ireland was €334 billion, exceeding Irish GDP (€291 billion in 2016). In contrast, there are no non–US/non–UK foreign multinationals in Ireland's top 50 firms.

So why again are people complaining?

Some people would really need to cop on and thank the government