Breeding Hoggetts-Store Lamb Prices etc

kk.man

Albert Johnson wrote: »

I'd consider them too dear to store over at that price. Would you not be better off buying a lighter similar quality lamb given that your going to run them through to a hogget before breeding them. The stronger lamb should rightly be dearer as she's fit to tip immediately and if she rears one lamb next season your quickly recouping some of your investment. The lighter lamb is a more long term prospect but will do the business in time to come.

I don't see the point in buying a big heavy lamb at top price to store over. She's only going to feed into a brute of a hogget this time next year that will be too fat if anything come breeding time. If the above sheep are bought at €130 now they'll probably be standing circa €180 as hogget's and even this year you'd have a fair sheep for that price.

It depends on what you're looking for but I see nice ewe lambs of all colours roughly 30-35kg at either side of a €100 currently. There not for breeding this year but will make the finest of hogget's for anyone prepared to wait. It's hard to buy any much value at the minute as the hogget producer's have gotten on well so far and are well able to give good money for replacement lamb's.

That's it in a nutshell Albert

White Clover

Albert Johnson wrote: »

I'd consider them too dear to store over at that price. Would you not be better off buying a lighter similar quality lamb given that your going to run them through to a hogget before breeding them. The stronger lamb should rightly be dearer as she's fit to tip immediately and if she rears one lamb next season your quickly recouping some of your investment. The lighter lamb is a more long term prospect but will do the business in time to come.

I don't see the point in buying a big heavy lamb at top price to store over. She's only going to feed into a brute of a hogget this time next year that will be too fat if anything come breeding time. If the above sheep are bought at €130 now they'll probably be standing circa €180 as hogget's and even this year you'd have a fair sheep for that price.

It depends on what you're looking for but I see nice ewe lambs of all colours roughly 30-35kg at either side of a €100 currently. There not for breeding this year but will make the finest of hogget's for anyone prepared to wait. It's hard to buy any much value at the minute as the hogget producer's have gotten on well so far and are well able to give good money for replacement lamb's.

Are Lambs that are only now 30 - 35kg good enough to breed from anytime? Would one only be introducing poor growth rate and possibly poor milking ability into a flock?
Personally, lambs have to tick alot of boxes in my flock before they'll be kept for breeding, high up in the list is, heavy enough to breed by November 1st without being meal fed. Anything not looking like making the cut around August is fattened for factory.

Albert Johnson

White Clover wrote: »

Are Lambs that are only now 30 - 35kg good enough to breed from anytime? Would one only be introducing poor growth rate and possibly poor milking ability into a flock?
Personally, lambs have to tick alot of boxes in my flock before they'll be kept for breeding, high up in the list is, heavy enough to breed by November 1st without being meal fed. Anything not looking like making the cut around August is fattened for factory.

That's a very fair point and one that requires consideration. However it depends on a number of factors such as the age of the lamb's and there treatment up until now. A lamb born before Paddy's day should definitely be heavy enough to breed by November provided they got a fair do all spring and summer. It would be unfair however to hold a lamb born at the end of April to the same standard. By the same token if the ewes were overstocked and the lamb's left hungry (not stunted but underfed) then it wouldn't be a fair comparison to put them up against lambs that had a good run of grass all season.

I agree that you should always try and strive for the best in breeding stock but I do believe that buying 50kg ewe lambs to store over to hogget's is a bit over the top. Yes it could be done but it's akin to buying a Land cruiser to do the work of a starlet, it looks great but the cost base will be vastly different. If I was in the OP's shoes I'd be looking to buy a young fresh lamb in need of time and a better place. I'd run a mile from aged or stunted lambs that were small but not necessarily young.

kk.man

White Clover wrote: »

Are Lambs that are only now 30 - 35kg good enough to breed from anytime? Would one only be introducing poor growth rate and possibly poor milking ability into a flock?
Personally, lambs have to tick alot of boxes in my flock before they'll be kept for breeding, high up in the list is, heavy enough to breed by November 1st without being meal fed. Anything not looking like making the cut around August is fattened for factory.

I see where you are coming from but if you buy the right lambs at that weight they can grow frame over the winter and into the spring. The don't require a lot of meal either. If ppl buy lambs at 135 + and sell them as hoggets it would be a loss making enterprise.

kk.man

White Clover wrote: »

Are Lambs that are only now 30 - 35kg good enough to breed from anytime? Would one only be introducing poor growth rate and possibly poor milking ability into a flock?
Personally, lambs have to tick alot of boxes in my flock before they'll be kept for breeding, high up in the list is, heavy enough to breed by November 1st without being meal fed. Anything not looking like making the cut around August is fattened for factory.

I see where you are coming from but if you buy the right lambs at that weight they can grow frame over the winter and into the spring. The don't require a lot of meal either. If ppl buy lambs at 135 + and sell them as hoggets it would be a loss making enterprise.

charolais0153

kk.man wrote: »

I see where you are coming from but if you buy the right lambs at that weight they can grow frame over the winter and into the spring. The don't require a lot of meal either. If ppl buy lambs at 135 + and sell them as hoggets it would be a loss making enterprise.

Lad near me, gets 220plus for a lot of them at home

early_riser

charolais0153 wrote: »

Lad near me, gets 220plus for a lot of them at home

And what did he get last year or what will he get next year? This was a good year, no guarantee of that next year I'm afraid

charolais0153

early_riser wrote: »

And what did he get last year or what will he get next year? This was a good year, no guarantee of that next year I'm afraid

Wasn't far off it, he has the finest hoggets around, teagasc athenry bought hoggets off him a few years ago when they were starting off a new flock

White Clover

Albert Johnson wrote: »

That's a very fair point and one that requires consideration. However it depends on a number of factors such as the age of the lamb's and there treatment up until now. A lamb born before Paddy's day should definitely be heavy enough to breed by November provided they got a fair do all spring and summer. It would be unfair however to hold a lamb born at the end of April to the same standard. By the same token if the ewes were overstocked and the lamb's left hungry (not stunted but underfed) then it wouldn't be a fair comparison to put them up against lambs that had a good run of grass all season.

I agree that you should always try and strive for the best in breeding stock but I do believe that buying 50kg ewe lambs to store over to hogget's is a bit over the top. Yes it could be done but it's akin to buying a Land cruiser to do the work of a starlet, it looks great but the cost base will be vastly different. If I was in the OP's shoes I'd be looking to buy a young fresh lamb in need of time and a better place. I'd run a mile from aged or stunted lambs that were small but not necessarily young.

Points there that I hadn't considered Albert, profit is scarce enough in sheep without having lambs not meeting their potential through over stocking and other management issues.
One would want to know where the lambs being purchased were coming from to avoid being caught with ones like I describe in my post above.

White Clover

kk.man wrote: »

I see where you are coming from but if you buy the right lambs at that weight they can grow frame over the winter and into the spring. The don't require a lot of meal either. If ppl buy lambs at 135 + and sell them as hoggets it would be a loss making enterprise.

As I said to Albert, you would want to know where you were buying from to avoid getting stung.

Albert Johnson

White Clover wrote: »

Points there that I hadn't considered Albert, profit is scarce enough in sheep without having lambs not meeting their potential through over stocking and other management issues.
One would want to know where the lambs being purchased were coming from to avoid being caught with ones like I describe in my post above.

To do manage sheep correctly is a clever man's game and there not that forgiving of errors of judgement. However you see some rough set ups through the country. In an ideal world you'd want to know the history of the lamb's you'd be buying but that's not always possible. Usually it's too late when you find out there not doing the business for whatever reason although you could always steer clear of similar in further. As with everything you'd want your eyes opened going in or the learning curve would be near vertical.

As a young lad I decided to buy ewe's and lamb's one spring to graze over the summer. I bought odds and ends through the mart at handy money (or so I thought). Of course I thought I had fierce value and couldn't wait to watch the money roll in come sale time. Long story short after feeding them all summer on a middling place they grossed little more than cost price in the spring. There was a bundle of badly bred white faced ewe's and lamb's who never put on a pound from purchase until sale. I learned a lot that summer and I still see the seller of those white sheep showing stock in the mart from time to time but I learned to keep my hands in my pockets. There's always some new victim and they look value to someone every time.