Opening of "No-Food" pubs pushed out again

opinionated3

What is the actual legal reason that the vintners cannot, ( at this stage, bearing in mind the length of time they've been closed now) instruct their members to open, within the given guidelines, next week? Genuinely interested. Is it fear of the gardai knocking at the door? Is it fear of pissing off our lawmakers?

MrStuffins

John O.Groats wrote: »

The "so called virus"? Meaning that he doesn`t believe there actually is a covid virus circulating through the world? if so then all the rest of his comments are invalid.

Apparently your belief in the virus is connected to the size of your mickey!

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Or an absolute stallion packing 8+inches saying, "we need to listen to the experts. This virus is real.......

Although the post does go on to make a little sense......

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Some serious questions need to be asked.

Indeed they do!!

Degag

opinionated3 wrote: »

What is the actual legal reason that the vintners cannot, ( at this stage, bearing in mind the length of time they've been closed now) instruct their members to open, within the given guidelines, next week? Genuinely interested. Is it fear of the gardai knocking at the door? Is it fear of pissing off our lawmakers?

The legal reason is that it would be illegal i presume.

weldoninhio

Suckit wrote: »

23 if it's the same one i'm thinking of.

23 deaths from one pub and it’s not being publicised by Dr Death on the daily??

Tough luck on the publicans. Disaster for them. Bad news for bar flies too.

weldoninhio

John O.Groats wrote: »

You`ll probably be burned at the stake for heresy for stating that on this thread but yes you`re absolutely correct.

Are offies closing? When did they announce that??

PTH2009

https://www.facebook.com/525873187601673/posts/1554556808066634/?sfnsn=mo

Nothing will come from this but best of luck to them

average_runner

the rock29 wrote: »

Licensed Vintners Association

Proposals will allow Berlin D2 to open again, while keeping pubs like Grogans closed
250 Dublin pubs closed for 252 days, including iconic venues like Grogans, McDaids and O’Donoghues

Government guidelines recognise restaurants, food pubs and wet pubs as “controlled environments”

New proposals to keep wet pubs closed in December while restaurants reopen will see Berlin D2 trading again while the likes of Grogans remains closed, according to the Licensed Vintners Association (LVA).

Following media reports suggesting that the Government plan on keeping ‘wet’ pubs shut, the LVA cited the recent report from the Health Information and Quality Authority (HIQA), which shows there is no evidence that ‘wet’ pubs pose a greater risk than restaurants.

Berlin D2 operates on a restaurant licence, which allowed it to reopen during the summer. Grogans on the other hand has now been shut by the Government restrictions for 252 consecutive days since the middle of March.

Approximately 250 ‘wet’ pubs in Dublin have kept closed during that period, including iconic venues such as Grogans, McDaids and O’Donoghues on Merrion Row. While other ‘wet’ pubs across Ireland were only open for just over 2 weeks across the eight months since the crisis began.

The LVA notes that the Government guidelines for restaurants, food pubs and wet pubs recognises all these premises as “controlled environments”. All these venues share the same Government guidelines relating to:

Social/ physical distancing requirements.
Lengths of stay.
Use of PPE and sanitiser.
Table service only.
No counter service.
“The HIQA report doesn’t show any evidence that ‘wet’ pubs pose a greater risk than restaurants, while the Government’s own guidelines acknowledge wet pubs and restaurants as being “controlled environments”,” said Donall O’Keeffe, Chief Executive of the LVA. “The Government’s guidelines even have the same regulations in place for restaurants and wet pubs – the same social distancing, the same lengths of stay, the same use of PPE and the same provision for table service only.

“Yet if current media reports are to be believed then the Government is gearing up to punish the pubs that have remained closed for the last eight months. “How is it fair that the Government seems intent on allowing the likes of Berlin D2 to trade, while keeping venues that have been impeccable during this crisis like Grogans closed?

“If the Government adopt this approach, what they are saying is that they don’t trust publicans, pub staff or pub goers to follow the guidelines. It will be a formal indication from Government that they think of pubs as ‘lesser’. Such an approach would strike us as a very obvious and discriminatory restraint of trade position if it were to be adopted by the Government. It is also a position that the pub trade can never accept,” Mr. O’Keeffe concluded.

#KEEPTHELIGHTSON – PUBS TURNING ON THEIR CHRISTMAS LIGHTS TONIGHT AT 5PM TO HIGHLIGHT READINESS FOR A SAFE REOPENING
© 2020 Licensed Vintners Association | Sitemap | Privacy Policy | Website maintained by Cogency

Gardai tried to close Berlin bar, but Judge rule against them. Want the government to interfere in court now ?

Most non food pubs in Dublin, opened up, some did Cheese platters, others did take away. So there is a loop hole there.


Alot of pubs in temple bar stayed shut even thought they usually serve food

SB71

opinionated3 wrote: »

What is the actual legal reason that the vintners cannot, ( at this stage, bearing in mind the length of time they've been closed now) instruct their members to open, within the given guidelines, next week? Genuinely interested. Is it fear of the gardai knocking at the door? Is it fear of pissing off our lawmakers?

All pubs should just open, there's no way the garda could possibly police the whole lot, that would be the ultimate 2 fingers up to NPHET, will never happen though.

MrStuffins

SB71 wrote: »

All pubs should just open, there's no way the garda could possibly police the whole lot, that would be the ultimate 2 fingers up to NPHET, will never happen though.

And two fingers up to every front-line worker, every medical professional, every cocooner, every person who has done their best for the past 8 months to contain this virus.........

Lux23

SB71 wrote: »

All pubs should just open, there's no way the garda could possibly police the whole lot, that would be the ultimate 2 fingers up to NPHET, will never happen though.

They can't police it, but they could object to their licence renewal come September! Plus, if something was to happen such as a cluster linked to their premises, could they be liable and would their insurance cover them? I reckon they're more scared of their insurance companies than the Guards.

I personally think pubs should be the very last thing we should be considering opening, they are completely unessential.

SB71

Lux23 wrote: »

They can't police it, but they could object to their licence renewal come September! Plus, if something was to happen such as a cluster linked to their premises, could they be liable and would their insurance cover them? I reckon they're more scared of their insurance companies than the Guards.

I personally think pubs should be the very last thing we should be considering opening, they are completely unessential.

If every single pub was to defy NPHET and open do you really think they would all lose their licence, there would be no pubs left then.

They might not be essential to you but tell that to the thousands of people who have lost their jobs and the thousands of people who are facing losing their jobs if pubs do not open again,are you happy to see people lose their jobs for no good reason?

Like talking to a brick wall trying to debate with the anti pub brigade.

SB71

MrStuffins wrote: »

And two fingers up to every front-line worker, every medical professional, every cocooner, every person who has done their best for the past 8 months to contain this virus.........

Stop FFS your actually embarrassing yourself here, absolutely nonsensical rubbish.

No doubts your one of these pro NPHET shills who hang on every word Dr Death says,and believe everything your being drip fed by the government.

cadaliac

SB71 wrote: »

If every single pub was to defy NPHET and open do you really think they would all lose their licence, there would be no pubs left then.

They might not be essential to you but tell that to the thousands of people who have lost their jobs and the thousands of people who are facing losing their jobs if pubs do not open again,are you happy to see people lose their jobs for no good reason?

Like talking to a brick wall trying to debate with the anti pub brigade.

I'm pro pub.
Where would you stop. Pubs, nail bars ? Open the pubs and everyone else will also want to be open, and rightfully so. Open all the pubs and every tom dick and harry will fcuk it up for the rest of us. Uncontrollable pissups spilling out onto the streets - students having a field day us still stuck in the kitchen working until Paddy's day under a further lockdown looking out at the rain, let alone the frontline workers.
Look, I think that if SD was *properly* maintained and adhered to, yes, all pubs should open. Problem is, and everyone knows it, that if you did that before xmas, the place would go mental. If you think the 1 or 2 viral videos you saw last weekend were shocking, just wait until xmas week, what you will see will be a lot worse.

MrStuffins

SB71 wrote: »

Stop FFS your actually embarrassing yourself here, absolutely nonsensical rubbish.

No doubts your one of these pro NPHET shills who hang on every word Dr Death says,and believe everything your being drip fed by the government.

I disagree so i'm a shill.

Classic!

MrStuffins

SB71 wrote: »

Like talking to a brick wall trying to debate with the anti pub brigade.

Dude, it would serve you well to actually listen to the viewpoints of others.

Throwing anyone who disagrees with you into some sort of imaginary "Anti-Pub Brigade" does nothing for you or your arguments. That's the kind of Trumpian thinking that belongs over in the politics forum.

There is no Anti-Pub Brigade. There is a pandemic at the moment and people don't want the virus to spread. Leaving pubs open without restrictions in a scenario we're currently in would be unsafe.

99% of this thread would like to see pubs open with restrictions, just like they were before. that's the sensible approach.

All of the pubs opening simultaneously against the recommendations certianly is not the sensible approach.

SB71

cadaliac wrote: »

I'm pro pub.
Where would you stop. Pubs, nail bars ? Open the pubs and everyone else will also want to be open, and rightfully so. Open all the pubs and every tom dick and harry will fcuk it up for the rest of us. Uncontrollable pissups spilling out onto the streets - students having a field day us still stuck in the kitchen working until Paddy's day under a further lockdown looking out at the rain, let alone the frontline workers.
Look, I think that if SD was *properly* maintained and adhered to, yes, all pubs should open. Problem is, and everyone knows it, that if you did that before xmas, the place would go mental. If you think the 1 or 2 viral videos you saw last weekend were shocking, just wait until xmas week, what you will see will be a lot worse.

Funny that didn't happen the last time pubs were open with the exception of a 20 second clip from Berlin bar if you really want to be pedantic.

Keeping pubs closed is wrong on so many levels, what you will then see is large groups on people in house parties and on the streets house parties are the real concern, or rather should be as opposed to the controlled environment of pubs , we're not taking abut late bars in Temple Bar anymore packed to the gills, we're talking 6 people to a table, and table service, sanitising stations everywhere,any pubs ive been in there hasnt been anyone dancing on the tables or nothing of the sort, just people enjoying the pints with their mates.

MrStuffins

SB71 wrote: »

we're talking 6 people to a table, and table service, sanitising stations everywhere,any pubs ive been in there hasnt been anyone dancing on the tables or nothing of the sort, just people enjoying the pints with their mates.

But this is not what you're suggesting. You're suggesting that all the pubs just open because the Garda won't be able to close them all.

SB71 wrote: »

All pubs should just open, there's no way the garda could possibly police the whole lot

That's pretty irresponsible and anyone who does this deserves what they get.

All signs are pointing towards the pubs being allowed to open. The Govt are going to push for them not to only be allowed to open over Christmas but into the New Year too

So no need for alarmist posting. You'll be drinking pints next week!

SB71

MrStuffins wrote: »

Dude, it would serve you well to actually listen to the viewpoints of others.

Throwing anyone who disagrees with you into some sort of imaginary "Anti-Pub Brigade" does nothing for you or your arguments. That's the kind of Trumpian thinking that belongs over in the politics forum.

There is no Anti-Pub Brigade. There is a pandemic at the moment and people don't want the virus to spread. Leaving pubs open without restrictions in a scenario we're currently in would be unsafe.

99% of this thread would like to see pubs open with restrictions, just like they were before. that's the sensible approach.

All of the pubs opening simultaneously against the recommendations certainly is not the sensible approach.

Not a sensible approach and no evidence offered to the contrary sounds pretty much like a raw deal to me and victimisation of licensed premises.

There is very much an anti pub brigade,no just certain people on this forum but NPHET themselves are without question anti pub, Ireland has endured the longest lock down in all of Europe ,and without a shred of evidence being produced to show why, and you really think there is no anti pub brigade.

SB71

MrStuffins wrote: »

I disagree so i'm a shill.

Classic!

Well it does appear you are pro NPHET, why else would you want pubs to remain closed for no good reason.

cadaliac

SB71 wrote: »

Funny that didn't happen the last time pubs were open with the exception of a 20 second clip from Berlin bar if you really want to be pedantic.

Keeping pubs closed is wrong on so many levels, what you will then see is large groups on people in house parties and on the streets house parties are the real concern, or rather should be as opposed to the controlled environment of pubs , we're not taking abut late bars in Temple Bar anymore packed to the gills, we're talking 6 people to a table, and table service, sanitising stations everywhere,any pubs ive been in there hasnt been anyone dancing on the tables or nothing of the sort, just people enjoying the pints with their mates.

Hey, I agree - none of the pubs I frequented had that going on either. But, it goes on and this is the reason they aren't allowed to open. The actions of so few is having this effect on all of us.

The other issue is only opening a few pubs (food or what ever they name it this time) and they will be booked out immediately. Open them all and you can spread out the amount of people per pub. Like I said, if the SD is enforced - no issues.

Fitz*

In my hometown, none of the pubs have capabilities of serving food. They have been open for about what, 3 or 4 weeks since March in a rural village. Empty most of the time when they opened. 7 or 8 people inside max.

Looks like it's driving to houses and house parties for Christmas then.

SB71

cadaliac wrote: »

Hey, I agree - none of the pubs I frequented had that going on either. But, it goes on and this is the reason they aren't allowed to open. The actions of so few is having this effect on all of us.

The other issue is only opening a few pubs (food or what ever they name it this time) and they will be booked out immediately. Open them all and you can spread out the amount of people per pub. Like I said, if the SD is enforced - no issues.

All pubs should be allowed to open completely ensuring they have the required covid safety measures in place which no doubt they all would,unfortunately licences premises are up against the powerful monster that is NPHET who will never give any recommendation for them to open.

I wont get my hopes up, but we live in hope.

MrStuffins

SB71 wrote: »

Well it does appear you are pro NPHET, why else would you want pubs to remain closed for no good reason.

Again, Trumpian tosh!

It would serve you best to not try to throw people into "Pro" this and "Anti" that segments and take them on the basis of what they are saying. There is no agenda.

I want pubs to be able to open. I want publicans to be able to do trade. I, selfishly, want to be able to have pints with my friends, family and even strangers. Especially at Christmas.

However, right now there is a virus that we trying to contain. We have tested out the opening of pubs before, with certain restrictions, and it was a roaring success. I think we should do that again. It would be the snesible and safe thing to do. It would allow people to be safe, would help reduce the risk of the virus spreading and would allow publicans to do business. It would also allow people to go back to work.

What I think is a bad idea is the one you set forward, where pubs just swing open their doors and dare the Garda to shut them down just to "put two fingers up to NPHET".

This is a short-term and antagonising approach.

SB71

The most infuriating thing about all of this is is the complete lack of any sort of evidence ever produced, i don't think anyone would be arguing the toss half as much if it transpired that pubs were a cause of spike in case like meat factories, direct provision centres, schools,nursing homes, construction sites, house parties,etc,etc.

NPHET are effectively treating publicans with disdain, insulting peoples intelligence by constantly saying pubs are a dangerous place, the same as travel,but have failed to show any sort of evidence to back this up,it beggars belief that so called medical professionals can behave in this manner,and are still churning the same rubbish out.

SB71

MrStuffins wrote: »

Again, Trumpian tosh!

It would serve you best to not try to throw people into "Pro" this and "Anti" that segments and take them on the basis of what they are saying. There is no agenda.

I want pubs to be able to open. I want publicans to be able to do trade. I, selfishly, want to be able to have pints with my friends, family and even strangers. Especially at Christmas.

However, right now there is a virus that we trying to contain. We have tested out the opening of pubs before, with certain restrictions, and it was a roaring success. I think we should do that again. It would be the snesible and safe thing to do. It would allow people to be safe, would help reduce the risk of the virus spreading and would allow publicans to do business. It would also allow people to go back to work.

What I think is a bad idea is the one you set forward, where pubs just swing open their doors and dare the Garda to shut them down just to "put two fingers up to NPHET".

This is a short-term and antagonising approach.

A bit of a contradiction here, so what your saying now is you ARE in favour of pubs opening, so what's the problem then, why not fully support pubs to open next week along with the retail sector?

Christmas trade could make or break pubs, most of January is dead anyway so they arent likely to make any sort of profit, it's imperative they open for December , otherwise you'll have a situation where there are more pub closures for good, and more facing misery on the dole.

MrStuffins

SB71 wrote: »

A bit of a contradiction here, so what your saying now is you ARE in favour of pubs opening, so what's the problem then......

What? I've said I want the pubs to be open on four different occasions on this thread in the last 24 hours.

MrStuffins wrote: »

I want pubs to be able to open. I want publicans to be able to do trade. I, selfishly, want to be able to have pints with my friends, family and even strangers. Especially at Christmas.

MrStuffins wrote: »

I'll be in the boozer, munching on Chicken Wings, skulling a few pints and hanging out with those close to me.

Cheer up lads. It's Christmas!

MrStuffins wrote: »

.......while the rest of us are enjoying our Christmas with a few Chicken Wings, Arthur G. and The Fairytale of New York! Can't wait!

MrStuffins wrote: »

I'm for allowing the pubs to open with restrictions. The ones that were in before are fine. Let's go again!

Again, I want to pubs to be able to open. We were able to do it successfully before. Why can't we do it again?

SB71

MrStuffins wrote: »

What? I've said I want the pubs to be open on four different occasions on this thread in the last 24 hours.










Again, I want to pubs to be able to open. We were able to do it successfully before. Why can't we do it again?

well then my apologies i clearly didn't see this until your last post.

Well let's hope they follow through on this, sadly i cant see it.

SAMTALK

The majority of people want pubs open for Christmas but whilst most people will do the sitting at table etc an awful lot of people will not do this and let's not pretend otherwise

12 pubs of Christmas ? Do you think some will not still partake of this and there are a lot of publicans who will not turn away customers that are mad to spend money ( understandably)
People who havent seen each other in a few months and get together. A few drinks later all caution gone


Such an outcry about pubs (and concern for the publicans) .. there are a lot more business affected , Hairdressers. Barbers, Beautician. Hotels etc

Before I'm attacked, no I don't think we should still be in level 5 next week. It's clearly not working because people are not listening anymore and have had enough. I travel to work everyday and the difference between 1st lockdown and this is unreal. Traffic busy as normal.,

MrStuffins

SB71 wrote: »

well then my apologies i clearly didn't see this until your last post.

Well let's hope they follow through on this, sadly i cant see it.

No problem at all.

Just an example of looking at the content of posts and opinions instead of throwing people into some "Anti-Pub Brigade".

I think the pubs will open in some guise this Christmas. Let's hope so!

Open the Pubs

I thought my username would be obsolete by now! Hopefully we catch a break this week with the decisions.

Open the Pubs

MrStuffins wrote: »

No problem at all.

Just an example of looking at the content of posts and opinions instead of throwing people into some "Anti-Pub Brigade".

I think the pubs will open in some guise this Christmas. Let's hope so!

You looking forward to creamy Christmas pints MrStuffins :P

MrStuffins

Open the Pubs wrote: »

You looking forward to creamy Christmas pints MrStuffins :P

Only the creamiest and most delicious

LuasSimon

Fitz* wrote: »

In my hometown, none of the pubs have capabilities of serving food. They have been open for about what, 3 or 4 weeks since March in a rural village. Empty most of the time when they opened. 7 or 8 people inside max.

Looks like it's driving to houses and house parties for Christmas then.

Gardai should be stopping those house parties . Selfish gits trying to ruin all the good work , can people not wait until the new year for a few drinks .

miece16

LuasSimon wrote: »

Gardai should be stopping those house parties . Selfish gits trying to ruin all the good work , can people not wait until the new year for a few drinks .

i've been waiting 10 months to have a few sociable drinks with friends. I'll be doing it this xmas with friends.

LuasSimon

It looks like restaurants and pubs wont be in the reopening next tuesday December 1st, retail barbers, gyms etc just.
Restaurants and gastro pubs from Monday December 14th would then make sense, hopefully it will only be pubs that genuinely had a Food trade always. Most Dublin pubs have a genuine food offering. All temple bar pubs do food likewise grafton street etc bar Mcdaids and grogans.

MrStuffins

miece16 wrote: »

i've been waiting 10 months to have a few sociable drinks with friends. I'll be doing it this xmas with friends.

Why did you wait until now? Why not before?

Scoundrel

So it'll be outdoor only till the 14th and the the 9 euro nonsense after that?

hynesie08

LuasSimon wrote: »

It looks like restaurants and pubs wont be in the reopening next tuesday December 1st, retail barbers, gyms etc just.
Restaurants and gastro pubs from Monday December 14th would then make sense, hopefully it will only be pubs that genuinely had a Food trade always. Most Dublin pubs have a genuine food offering. All temple bar pubs do food likewise grafton street etc bar Mcdaids and grogans.

I don't believe Tony is leading an evil cabal against pubs, but this is sheer stupidity, that means there will be 1 weekend where pubs can open before Christmas, that's just asking for trouble......

BringBackMick

Another person on the radio anti pub/ restaurant with absolutely no evidence.

BringBackMick

'studies are emerging'

None referenced!

BringBackMick

Scoundrel wrote: »

So it'll be outdoor only till the 14th and the the 9 euro nonsense after that?

I haven't heard any mention of 14th.

I heard a week later...

There is no way they will be waiting until 14 December.

LuasSimon

hynesie08 wrote: »

I don't believe Tony is leading an evil cabal against pubs, but this is sheer stupidity, that means there will be 1 weekend where pubs can open before Christmas, that's just asking for trouble......

Make it Thursday Dec 10th so, be interesting to see how social distancing will be policed!

Acosta

LuasSimon wrote: »

Gardai should be stopping those house parties . Selfish gits trying to ruin all the good work , can people not wait until the new year for a few drinks .

Too many people have had enough. There will be raging house parties in every town, village and city all over Christmas. It would probably be a lot safer to open pubs in restricted conditions.

From Irish Independent

Pubs may be required to have an operational kitchen to be allowed open under the new rules being considered.

“We want to clamp down on pubs opening because they have a chipper van out the back”, a Government source said.

So once the virus sees a working kitchen is in operation it will take a sharp turn and head for the door. People are fed up with this horse****

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

MrStuffins wrote: »

Why did you wait until now? Why not before?

Because like me he probably looked at the restrictions and didn't bother his bollocks because they're a joke.

hynesie08

LuasSimon wrote: »

Make it Thursday Dec 10th so, be interesting to see how social distancing will be policed!

If pubs have 2 weekends, 4 days, 4 seatings a day, they'll put the gardai to shame in how efficient they will be.

undertaker fan 88

This is turning in to a complete farce to be honest. I'm a barman and still havent gotten any indication that I have a job next week. I'm also very unhappy if we are to go back for 2 weeks and be shut down again. That means I go back and have no xmas myself knowing that I will be unemployed again once xmas is over. Does anyone think that is fair? Like I want to go back to work but not if it's only for 2 weeks and back on the scrap heap ffs

stephenjmcd

LuasSimon wrote: »

It looks like restaurants and pubs wont be in the reopening next tuesday December 1st, retail barbers, gyms etc just.
Restaurants and gastro pubs from Monday December 14th would then make sense, hopefully it will only be pubs that genuinely had a Food trade always. Most Dublin pubs have a genuine food offering. All temple bar pubs do food likewise grafton street etc bar Mcdaids and grogans.

They'll give them 2 weekends trade before Xmas. Would be pretty sure they'll be open by Friday 11th

MrStuffins

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Because like me he probably looked at the restrictions and didn't bother his bollocks because they're a joke.

But..............

miece16 wrote: »

I'll be doing it this xmas with friends.

There will still be restrictions this Christmas so............

weldoninhio

Trying to get this years Xmas party sorted. Nightmare. Some of the lads reckon we’ll get a pub open. I’m not too confident. Thankfully we’ve a few houses to choose from if it comes to that. I presume everyone else is doing the same.