Opening of "No-Food" pubs pushed out again

PTH2009

The rationale for the €9 meal must be lost with the written evidence of pubs causing a rise in numbers

BringBackMick

I geniuinely think after last 4 days of positive progress the chances for an opening is much better, by sound of Eamonn Ryan on radio he liked today's numbers

MelbourneMan

MrStuffins wrote: »

What? I've said I want the pubs to be open on four different occasions on this thread in the last 24 hours.

Again, I want to pubs to be able to open. We were able to do it successfully before. Why can't we do it again?

Because unfortunately this isnt quite true. The situation is more complex, and the pub sector cannot, no more than any other one, be looked at in isolation.

We must evaluate the totality of the freedoms we can facilitate over the end of year holiday period, and determine which to prioritise, and which have a low risk to benefit ratio.

Small gatherings of close family members on Christmas day itself would be considered highly desirable to enable. Much as it is part and parcel of the traditional Irish yuletide tradition, get togethers in public houses would not be regarded to be of the same importance from the point of view of the overall benefit to the maximum number of people and of its nature and importance to those people.

In order to minimise the rate of spread of the virus that Christmas celebrations will inevitably bring, with consequences for the character and number of corrective actions and restrictions that will be required as a result in the first quarter of 2021, some settings for person to person contact must be restricted or curtailed entirely.

And pubs fall low on the level of priorities. This is not a reflection on the efforts of the pub sector, the many whose livelihoods depend on it, and recognises the important social role it plays in Irish society. But simply a consequence of the limited room for manoeuvre and options available to us as a country and the exigencies that face us at this time. Leaving minimal to no access to them during December as an overall least worst option for the country and its people.

ShyMets

MelbourneMan wrote: »

Because unfortunately this isnt quite true. The situation is more complex, and the pub sector cannot, no more than any other one, be looked at in isolation.

We must evaluate the totality of the freedoms we can facilitate over the end of year holiday period, and determine which to prioritise, and which have a low risk to benefit ratio.

Small gatherings of close family members on Christmas day itself would be considered highly desirable to enable. Much as it is part and parcel of the traditional Irish yuletide tradition, get togethers in public houses would not be regarded to be of the same importance from the point of view of the overall benefit to the maximum number of people and of its nature and importance to those people.

In order to minimise the rate of spread of the virus that Christmas celebrations will inevitably bring, with consequences for the character and number of corrective actions and restrictions that will be required as a result in the first quarter of 2021, some settings for person to person contact must be restricted or curtailed entirely.

And pubs fall low on the level of priorities. This is not a reflection on the efforts of the pub sector, the many whose livelihoods depend on it, and recognises the important social role it plays in Irish society. But simply a consequence of the limited room for manoeuvre and options available to us as a country and the exigencies that face us at this time. Leaving minimal to no access to them during December as an overall least worst option for the country and its people.

I've read your post a few times now and I'm still not sure what you're on about

Itssoeasy

My attitude to the reopening of pubs is if they open great, if they don’t then okay. I’ve stopped trying to predict what was going to happen. There’s no point worrying about it as it’s not something I have control over. I was however annoyed how the pubs and that sector as a whole were treated because it was a wait and see type of thing which lead to a lack of certainty.

weldoninhio

ShyMets wrote: »

I've read your post a few times now and I'm still not sure what you're on about

It’s Walter Mitty waffle to try and make it sound as if he has/is an insider from NPHET.

MOH

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/revealed-the-plan-for-three-phases-of-restrictions-to-exit-lockdown-39785548.html

However, there are on going discussions about when this should happen and officials are also looking at new definitions for restaurants to ensure pubs are legitimately serving food.

Pubs may be required to have an operational kitchen to be allowed open under the new rules being considered.

“We want to clamp down on pubs opening because they have a chipper van out the back”, a Government source said.

An operational kitchen now, is it? But I thought any food was scaring away the virus, so a pub could do a deal with a nearby restaurant to source food from them. And surely that well thought out regulation requiring them to record what everyone was eating would ensure that everyone was having food with their drinks . Obviously now it's only food cooked on site that defeats Covid.

It's almost as if they're coming up with increasingly novel restrictions in order to make sure pubs stay closed no matter what, but we all know that's a ludicrous notion.

Meanwhile that sudden large dip in numbers in early November matching the length of the mid term break shortly beforehand is just a massive coincidence, because schoolkids are immune.

Actually, simple solution: why not just open up all the pub and station schoolkids inside each door, or possibly at every table, because it's been scientifically proven that covid can't spread while they're around. They can be given free Tayto and a mineral, everyone's a winner.

Open the Pubs

It's really unfair on "wet pubs" if we are back to discriminating against them because they don't have a kitchen or do food. We were told in the summer that this 9 euro meal stuff was a thing of the past as it was farcical.

Wet pubs in Dublin haven't been open for 252 days, and now they can't even get 2 weeks at Christmas? That is scandalous.

When are they suggesting these pubs open again? As all the noise is about more restrictions again in January

ShyMets

MOH wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/revealed-the-plan-for-three-phases-of-restrictions-to-exit-lockdown-39785548.html


An operational kitchen now, is it? But I thought any food was scaring away the virus, so a pub could do a deal with a nearby restaurant to source food from them. And surely that well thought out regulation requiring them to record what everyone was eating would ensure that everyone was having food with their drinks . Obviously now it's only food cooked on site that defeats Covid.

It's almost as if they're coming up with increasingly novel restrictions in order to make sure pubs stay closed no matter what, but we all know that's a ludicrous notion.

Meanwhile that sudden large dip in numbers in early November matching the length of the mid term break shortly beforehand is just a massive coincidence, because schoolkids are immune.

Actually, simple solution: why not just open up all the pub and station schoolkids inside each door, or possibly at every table, because it's been scientifically proven that covid can't spread while they're around. They can be given free Tayto and a mineral, everyone's a winner.

Let's hope common sense prevails. If they go down the operational kitchen route that will keep shut a lot of pubs that were previously able to open

Shanotheslayer

MOH wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/revealed-the-plan-for-three-phases-of-restrictions-to-exit-lockdown-39785548.html


An operational kitchen now, is it? But I thought any food was scaring away the virus, so a pub could do a deal with a nearby restaurant to source food from them. And surely that well thought out regulation requiring them to record what everyone was eating would ensure that everyone was having food with their drinks . Obviously now it's only food cooked on site that defeats Covid.

It's almost as if they're coming up with increasingly novel restrictions in order to make sure pubs stay closed no matter what, but we all know that's a ludicrous notion.

Meanwhile that sudden large dip in numbers in early November matching the length of the mid term break shortly beforehand is just a massive coincidence, because schoolkids are immune.

Actually, simple solution: why not just open up all the pub and station schoolkids inside each door, or possibly at every table, because it's been scientifically proven that covid can't spread while they're around. They can be given free Tayto and a mineral, everyone's a winner.

That's a whole lot of nonsense in one post.

Was talking to a friend today who works in the pub trade and they were saying that they reckon they will be definitely open for the christmas weather its next week or the following week. Pub will be selling pizzas again but wont be putting anyone under pressure to buy one. They will have the same set up as last time. Book your table,wear masks entering/leaving the premises etc. Looking forward to a few festive pints now

stephenjmcd

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Was talking to a friend today who works in the pub trade and they were saying that they reckon they will be definitely open for the christmas weather its next week or the following week. Pub will be selling pizzas again but wont be putting anyone under pressure to buy one. They will have the same set up as last time. Book your table,wear masks entering/leaving the premises etc. Looking forward to a few festive pints now

Well it looks like unless they've a kitchen they won't be open.

The whole takeaway loophole seems to be on the way out

BringBackMick

Will early houses be open if they serve food? I work 4 nights on the trot and like a few guiness with my breakfast on the last morning of the run, it be nice to do it again before Christmas.

SEPT 23 1989

Women will be able to make an appointment to get their hair done and I can't make an appointment with Old Uncle Arthur

Very unfair

stephenjmcd

BringBackMick wrote: »

Will early houses be open if they serve food? I work 4 nights on the trot and like a few guiness with my breakfast on the last morning of the run, it be nice to do it again before Christmas.

Can't see why not. There was a few in Dublin city centre doing it

stephenjmcd

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Well it looks like unless they've a kitchen they won't be open.

The whole takeaway loophole seems to be on the way out

They have a little kitchen out the back so they will be opening back up

Zebra3

Open the Pubs wrote: »

It's really unfair on "wet pubs" if we are back to discriminating against them because they don't have a kitchen or do food. We were told in the summer that this 9 euro meal stuff was a thing of the past as it was farcical.

Wet pubs in Dublin haven't been open for 252 days, and now they can't even get 2 weeks at Christmas? That is scandalous.

When are they suggesting these pubs open again? As all the noise is about more restrictions again in January

It looks like it’s a deliberate attempt to drive pubs that don’t serve food out of business.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Everything should be open. End of. If you've symptoms STAY AT HOME.

PTH2009

Wonder would a pizza oven and a few cheese boards in the fridge be permitted

Place i drank in a few times over the summer were doing that and it was great. Tesco pizzas are muck though

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Zebra3 wrote: »

It looks like it’s a deliberate attempt to drive pubs that don’t serve food out of business.

And in come the superpubs like Weatherspoons...and years later we'll hear about the brown envelopes that were passed out.

ShyMets

PTH2009 wrote: »

Wonder would a pizza oven and a few cheese boards in the fridge be permitted

Place i drank in a few times over the summer were doing that and it was great. Tesco pizzas are muck though

The place i was drinking in Dublin City Centre was doing the same thing. Hopefully thats still permitted

BringBackMick

I wonder will Harry Byrnes have to reconfigure things with their pizza van?

Would be ideal place for Christmas, I guess they will just close the car park if not allowed indoors.

We have to remember than level 3 should enable outside drinking in all types of pubs.

They could just turn the car park into an outside beer garden market.

Chalk McHugh

I see that Luke O Neill lad is now trying to ruin the Christmas dinner for people by saying we can't share the gravy boat (never knew it was called that), plonk Grandad somewhere near a window, get one person to do all the prep work and serving up of the grub (good luck with that), make sure you're not sitting across from someone and don't hang around too long in the one room.

Is this perma smiling nutcase for real? He can go shove brussel sprouts up his swiss role and never mind passing the gravy boat he can go get the bleedin boat himself!

Fitz*

While back in summer time, I was glad that the places found the loophole and exploited it by selling from a take away a mile down the road.

Now, I'm not so sure. It's very unfair on the pubs that don't team up with the chipper or sell frozen pizzas for double the price.

Open then all under the same regulations.

Open the Pubs

What does an "operational kitchen" mean exactly?
Basically just barring the small amount of pubs that were bringing in takeaway food from opening?

Would love to know the thinking of whatever gob****e leaked that to Indo. "We want to clamp down on pubs trying to survive".

It would be one thing coming from NPHET but that's a politician. And more anonymous kite flying in the media. No transparency and evidence basis to these decision

LuasSimon

Pubs that dont serve food are going to be a thing of the past.

Open the Pubs

Fitz* wrote: »

While back in summer time, I was glad that the places found the loophole and exploited it by selling from a take away a mile down the road.

Now, I'm not so sure. It's very unfair on the pubs that don't team up with the chipper or sell frozen pizzas for double the price.

Open then all under the same regulations.

They should all be treated the same food Vs non food pubs. Either it's safe for all to open or it's safe for none.

It's an injustice really.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Open the Pubs wrote: »

What does an "operational kitchen" mean exactly?
Basically just barring the small amount of pubs that were bringing in takeaway food from opening?

Would love to know the thinking of whatever gob****e leaked that to Indo. "We want to clamp down on pubs trying to survive".

It would be one thing coming from NPHET but that's a politician. And more anonymous kite flying in the media. No transparency and evidence basis to these decision

It just shows that it's all smoke screens and bullshìt.

It's absolutely anti pub. Nothing more.

The food thing is a nonsense, I can understand time limits, I can understand early closing, I can understand table service but I cannot understand the food thing unless the purpose of this is to kill the pub trade entirely.

If they "let" pubs open for two weeks I would just wonder how many publicans would actually bother. Reduced capacity, kitchen all day, staff already getting 350 p/w covid pay actually bothering their bollocks to work Christmas week for no more pay. The beer kegs, the wastage if they can't sell beer after the 25th....closing again. I mean why fücking bother.

If any of them do open they're literally just doing it to say "hello - we still exist" because it's surely not worth their while.

ShyMets

LuasSimon wrote: »

Pubs that dont serve food are going to be a thing of the past.

More like you hope they're a thing of the past

PTH2009

Hunky Monster wrote: »

It just shows that it's all smoke screens and bullshìt.

It's absolutely anti pub. Nothing more.

The food thing is a nonsense, I can understand time limits, I can understand early closing, I can understand table service but I cannot understand the food thing unless the purpose of this is to kill the pub trade entirely.

If they "let" pubs open for two weeks I would just wonder how many publicans would actually bother. Reduced capacity, kitchen all day, staff already getting 350 p/w covid pay actually bothering their bollocks to work Christmas week for no more pay. The beer kegs, the wastage if they can't sell beer after the 25th....closing again. I mean why fücking bother.

If any of them do open they're literally just doing it to say "hello - we still exist" because it's surely not worth their while.

Yeah very true

How come pubs are allowed open over in the UK (when there lockdown ends) who have a very similar drinking culture to us ?

People will still get drunk with or without food

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

PTH2009 wrote: »

Yeah very true

How come pubs are allowed open over in the UK (when there lockdown ends) who have a very similar drinking culture to us ?

People will still get drunk with or without food

And they can get drunk in a controlled environment.

Imagine the house parties over Christmas....

LuasSimon

Your going to have to have 2 Main courses each costing 9 euro or more in the new regime
Chicken curry and chips first and then eat a pizza and you can have a drink then if your able!

BringBackMick

I hope all non-food pubs open up the same day food pubs open...If they can all do it together as a mass protest they will succeed.

Good luck....I hope there is strong collective support.

SEPT 23 1989

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

I see that Luke O Neill lad is now trying to ruin the Christmas dinner for people by saying we can't share the gravy boat (never knew it was called that), plonk Grandad somewhere near a window, get one person to do all the prep work and serving up of the grub (good luck with that), make sure you're not sitting across from someone and don't hang around too long in the one room.

Is this perma smiling nutcase for real? He can go shove brussel sprouts up his swiss role and never mind passing the gravy boat he can go get the bleedin boat himself!

You would think with 400 million in the bank he would charter a plane and fcuk off to a beach far away like a normal human being would do

But he loves the sound of his own voice too much for that

MrStuffins

PTH2009 wrote: »

How come pubs are allowed open over in the UK (when there lockdown ends) who have a very similar drinking culture to us ?

The UK made an absolute mess of Covid. If you're gonna start.with the Whataboutery, I'd use a different country to compare us to

scouserstation

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

You would think with 400 million in the bank he would charter a plane and fcuk off to a beach far away like a normal human being would do

Why would he wanna do that, hes got to stick around and promote this vaccine rollout that he stands to make a killing from through his pharmaceutical interests

Hunky Monster

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Everything should be open. End of. If you've symptoms STAY AT HOME.

But people won’t. That’s the main problem in all this - people’s behaviour.

MrStuffins

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Everything should be open. End of. If you've symptoms STAY AT HOME.

Mind-boggling at this point that you still don't know how Covid works!!

doublejobbing 2

BringBackMick wrote: »

I hope all non-food pubs open up the same day food pubs open...If they can all do it together as a mass protest they will succeed.

Good luck....I hope there is strong collective support.

The unions, or the publicans themselves, have been pretty poor on this. They should have blockaded the roads in and out of Dublin months ago. Strictest anti pub rules anywhere outside of Saudi Arabia, based on hyperbole and pseudoscience.

Frankly I think the slightest uptick in cases between December 1st and 14th (is that when they claim to be opening?) and the government will pull it back. The aim is clear, kill off the pub for good in the name of a virus little worse than a bad flu.

Open the Pubs

We often hear about how powerful the Vintners lobby are, but really they haven't had any success at all this year. A lot of talk and nothing to show. They aren't nearly as powerful as people believe.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

MrStuffins wrote: »

Mind-boggling at this point that you still don't know how Covid works!!

Mind boggling... tell me oh wise one, tell me about the spread of the virus if you're asymptomatic?

Actually I'll educate you. You keep waffling on about science so I'll link you to something that might even make you spit out your creamy and delicious pint. Have a good read of it and tell me again why the pubs are closed.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-19802-w


TEN MILLION PARTICIPANTS.

Stringent COVID-19 control measures were imposed in Wuhan between January 23 and April 8, 2020. Estimates of the prevalence of infection following the release of restrictions could inform post-lockdown pandemic management. Here, we describe a city-wide SARS-CoV-2 nucleic acid screening programme between May 14 and June 1, 2020 in Wuhan. All city residents aged six years or older were eligible and 9,899,828 (92.9%) participated. No new symptomatic cases and 300 asymptomatic cases (detection rate 0.303/10,000, 95% CI 0.270–0.339/10,000) were identified. There were no positive tests amongst 1,174 close contacts of asymptomatic cases. 107 of 34,424 previously recovered COVID-19 patients tested positive again (re-positive rate 0.31%, 95% CI 0.423–0.574%). The prevalence of SARS-CoV-2 infection in Wuhan was therefore very low five to eight weeks after the end of lockdown.

Are you still going off the data models from February or something, you should really keep up. Thought you were all over the science on this. This is nothing but anti-pub agenda based on pseudoscience, fear mongering and an overreaching government.

I'll say it again, IF YOU ARE FEELING SYMPTOMS - STAY AT HOME, IF NOT - CARRY ON.

MrStuffins

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

But people won’t. That’s the main problem in all this - people’s behaviour.

And not only this, but their ignorance!

Remarkably, despite the fact this has been going on since March, there are still people who don't know that asymptomatic people can still spread the virus!

There's simply no legislating for these people!

MrStuffins

Hunky Monster wrote: »

You keep waffling on about science ......

Thought you were all over the science on this.

I don't recall saying anything about science. I think you have me confused with someone else

Ted_YNWA

LuasSimon wrote: »

Pubs that dont serve food are going to be a thing of the past.

LuasSimon wrote: »

Your going to have to have 2 Main courses each costing 9 euro or more in the new regime
Chicken curry and chips first and then eat a pizza and you can have a drink then if your able!

LuasSimon wrote: »

Gardai should be stopping those house parties . Selfish gits trying to ruin all the good work , can people not wait until the new year for a few drinks .

LuasSimon wrote: »

Make it Thursday Dec 10th so, be interesting to see how social distancing will be policed!

MOD
It appears that you are posting in an antagonistic manner here.

Prove me wrong, or you access will be curtailed to this thread.

MOH

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

That's a whole lot of nonsense in one post.

I know, but there was a lot of nonsense to be addressed and I didn't want to multipost

rubadub

PTH2009 wrote: »

The rationale for the €9 meal must be lost with the written evidence of pubs causing a rise in numbers

PTH2009 wrote: »

People will still get drunk with or without food

I can't be arsed looking for your posts, but I remember you were one in particular who clearly showed the reason for the meal laws which have been in place for over 50 years now.

You were basically moaning that you could not get the same buzz after a big feed, and had to fork out more money for it and could not down as many pints, and it would have less of an effect because of the food.

I am of the same mindset. I do not like the thought of eating while drinking, I have only been in a pub once with family for a few pints. Most of my friends are heavy drinkers as I am, and have no interest in going for a short time and then having to have a meal, sure I can decide not to touch it, but I hate to waste food. I want to meet up and get pissed drunk.

This is exactly why restaurants have this law for decades, and why restaurants get to open in residential areas (where a pub would have no choice). I have been bleating on about this in this forum for ages, nobody ever responds to the question why the fcuk they think the law below is in place. (quite obviously since if they answer honestly it will show them up as idiots or pretending to be idiots)

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/criminal_law/criminal_offences/alcohol_and_the_law.html

Children aged 15 and over, who are accompanied by their parent or guardian, can stay on the premises after 9:00 (10:00 pm from May to September) if they are attending a private function where a substantial meal is being served

It's astonishing that people are still feigning ignorance about this coming out with the likes of such bullshit like "durrr, does food have antiviral properties...durrr". Do they think they look smart by making themselves out to be completely ignorant stupid cnuts?

I find it extremely hard to believe anybody who is dying for pubs to reopen has never heard and understood the phrase "eating is cheating", or has never had their own or others friends mammys try to "line their stomachs" with food knowing they are going on planning on getting shitfaced. Then these idiots attempt to take the rest of us for stupid cnuts claiming a meal will literally make no difference at all! who do they think they are kidding!?

Dickie10

Again i look on pure morbid curiosoty to just how long publicans will let themselves get walked on. everyone knows the government will keep the country in level 3 for all spring. they will be happy everything is open bar the pubs. this is crazy i actually cant see them opening pubs or allowing any crowd events in summer 2021. there will always be case numbers to be found and clusters here and there and God knows they will magic case numbers if they need to. Can see them bringing in huge restrictions on pubs and nightclubs going forward to , maybe no more late licences or something like 12 am shutting across the board at weekends, i think the genie is out of the bottle now, we need to be very careful what we let them restrict now they have gotten used to it.

stephenjmcd

Dickie10 wrote: »

Again i look on pure morbid curiosoty to just how long publicans will let themselves get walked on. everyone knows the government will keep the country in level 3 for all spring. they will be happy everything is open bar the pubs. this is crazy i actually cant see them opening pubs or allowing any crowd events in summer 2021. there will always be case numbers to be found and clusters here and there and God knows they will magic case numbers if they need to. Can see them bringing in huge restrictions on pubs and nightclubs going forward to , maybe no more late licences or something like 12 am shutting across the board at weekends, i think the genie is out of the bottle now, we need to be very careful what we let them restrict now they have gotten used to it.

So you think after covid has passed there'll be no late bars or nightclubs.... put down whatever your smoking, programme for government actually goes the opposite way with later opening hours and a move towards a more European model for late night venues.

They'll open as usual once a vaccine is in widespread use, until then it is what it is just make the best of it. Late night bars and nightclubs are an awful idea until a vaccine is in widespread use, as much as I'd like to be back in both we can't at the moment, the 10.30/11.30 closing is a compromise for the moment, better than nothing

ingo1984

Will it be back to the 1 hour 45 minutes nonsense again? Always felt like by the time you settled in, they were booting ya out again.

Patrick2010

I see from today’s Indo that only pubs with their own kitchen can reopen, so no more buying in food from a local restaurant or takeaway