Opening of "No-Food" pubs pushed out again

MelbourneMan

Richard Hillman wrote: »

The lack of logic is just say 2 groups of 4 people sit at a table in a pub for 2 hours.

One group sits there and they have 4 pints each over 2 hours. There are 4 services of the 4 rounds.

Group 2 has 4 pints and a small meal over the 2 hours. There are 5 services of the 4 rounds and group of meals.

Who is more likely to contract the Virus, Group 1 or Group 2?

Remember you have a 2/3 people added to the kitchen service and you have increased the contact between staff and customer. You have also entered a new dynamic of cutlery and condiments.

The difference in your example is negligible, and not really an accurate way of assessing the situation. The crucial gain in the food scenario stipulation is the number of pubs that will be kept closed as a result and the deterring of patrons interested in only drinking through the 'entry fee' that the food brings. If anything it is set too low at 9€, but the requirement for true onsite catering facilities will serve well to redress that weakness.

MelbourneMan

Tazz T wrote: »

The irony of all this is that the gov made all the pubs spend thousands putting in place safety measures and they haven't been allowed to use them.

The sad fact is that if wet pubs aren't allowed to open at Xmas at the end of the second wave when infections are low, they won't open until the start of summer after the third wave and the whole pandemic has passed.

It used to be about flattening the curve, but now it's just about Level 3 and above and keeping schools open. Even the thought of opening wet pubs is taboo.

The first two observations are true, and unfortunate.

Your last two sentences are consistent - the importance of flattening the curve makes opening 'wet' pubs not a serious option.

MelbourneMan

opinionated3 wrote: »

Nphet don't care about their employment or their mental health. That much is obvious or else they would be doing their best to give these people a chance to show they can operate just as safely as barbers, gyms etc...I think it's obvious at this stage that there is an anti alcohol narrative being pursued by these " experts".

I would refer you to my post a couple of stages above and ask you to similarly consider, do you truly think it at all possible that those tasked with providing pandemic analysis advice to the government at this time would have any such motivation as an 'anti alcohol narrative'? Again, I would suggest this shows rather a lack of understanding of their terms of reference, the people involved, and the issues they are dealing with, or, something closer to an imagined conspiracy theory as a placeholder for that lack of understanding. Can you cite any firm evidence for your impression ?

I would urge people to accept the bona fides, knowledge, experience, and motivation to act in the interest of Ireland's fight against the pandemic, of the members of NPHET. Anyone doubting it is surely displaying some irrational frustration rather than truly arriving at that erroneous conclusion through considered reflection.

It would do everyone good to accept that there is no incompetence, hidden agendas, 'anti-pub' bias, or other such imagined motivations behind NPHET's advice.

stephenjmcd

MelbourneMan wrote: »

the requirement for true onsite catering facilities will serve well to redress that weakness.

Yeah no it won't, plenty that were open last time around with their own kitchen had €9 specials, same again coming this time.

More nonsense posting pretending to have some sort of inside track, urging people to do this and that, like really why is your opinion to be seen as some sort of higher standing to anyone else's

mightyreds

MelbourneMan wrote: »

The difference in your example is negligible, and not really an accurate way of assessing the situation. The crucial gain in the food scenario stipulation is the number of pubs that will be kept closed as a result and the deterring of patrons interested in only drinking through the 'entry fee' that the food brings. If anything it is set too low at 9€, but the requirement for true onsite catering facilities will serve well to redress that weakness.

Plenty of house parties around with no "entry fee" so it doesn't really matter all that much

MelbourneMan

MelbourneMan wrote: »

I would urge people to accept the bona fides, knowledge, experience, and motivation to act in the interest of Ireland's fight against the pandemic, of the members of NPHET.

I would urge you to insert that in your sphincter. You have no authority here, and unless you represent NPHET in official capacity there is little further to discuss.

Pintman Paddy Losty

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I would urge you to insert that in your sphincter. You have no authority here, and unless you represent NPHET in official capacity there is little further to discuss.

Listen buddy, just wishing pubs were safe environments doesn't make it so. It's to do with drink. People get rat arsed and start acting the absolute maggot when they've pints on board.

Social distance will be out the window and lads will be hugging and singing Fairy tale of New York. The pubs aren't opening.

The experts are right and have called it right all along.

hynesie08

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Listen buddy, just wishing pubs were safe environments doesn't make it so. It's to do with drink. People get rat arsed and start acting the absolute maggot when they've pints on board.

Social distance will be out the window and lads will be hugging and singing Fairy tale of New York. The pubs aren't opening.

The experts are right and have called it right all along.

Pubs operating as resteraunts were open for 3 months, so surely you can back up your statement with evidence.........

Tazz T

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Listen buddy, just wishing pubs were safe environments doesn't make it so. It's to do with drink. People get rat arsed and start acting the absolute maggot when they've pints on board.

Social distance will be out the window and lads will be hugging and singing Fairy tale of New York. The pubs aren't opening.

The experts are right and have called it right all along.

Pubs have not been open. They have invested thousands to be open under restrictions and have been ignored. Businesses are shattered people are unemployed and there is no evidence what you're saying will be the case. Pubs are and have been open all over europe.

Btw as an immunology grad I believe in lockdown, but it's getting extreme. Back in the day it was all about flattening the curve, now it's about flattening the economy with unnecessary restrictions. We now have the 3rd lowest infection rate in europe. If the government doesn't open up they will get zero buy in for any new measures in the new year. That will result in a worse scenario than opening pubs with restrictions that will prevent what you are theorising.

Pintman Paddy Losty

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Listen buddy, just wishing pubs were safe environments doesn't make it so. It's to do with drink. People get rat arsed and start acting the absolute maggot when they've pints on board.

Social distance will be out the window and lads will be hugging and singing Fairy tale of New York. The pubs aren't opening.

The experts are right and have called it right all along.

Another alter ego bites the dust? Your dubious track record around here doesn't lend you any credibility, you have been always been an unapologetic advocate for the government and NPHET - they can do absolutely no wrong in your eyes. Then you conjure up a far-fetched scenario of everyone losing the plot in the local, going out of their way to damage future prospects down the line. If you possessed any self-awareness you wouldn't have a straight face typing that, here's a newsflash for you: the hard sell isn't going over. And the pubs are most certainly opening again in December despite your strident claims. So for a finish the "Pintman" will be hiding behind the laptop, impotently raging at people responsibly socialising over a few jars. A delicious irony.

rubadub

saabsaab wrote: »

5 per person, beer or anything else you like including red lemonade!

no need to explain it, they are not the ignorant idiots they are making themselves out to be. It's getting quite tiresome & cringeworthy, and must be confusing to those very few who do not realise they are liars.

I have no idea what they hope to achieve, presumably to deceive a very small minority who fall for the lies? but to what end? come on you lying freaks, please explain!

Just curious. Let's imagine pubs are open again on the 2nd. How many days are you all going to spend in the pub? Between then and New Years?

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Just curious. Let's imagine pubs are open again on the 2nd. How many days are you all going to spend in the pub? Between then and New Years?

Probably will be out every weekend up until the new year

Neowise

Deleted User wrote: »

Just curious. Let's imagine pubs are open again on the 2nd. How many days are you all going to spend in the pub? Between then and New Years?

that seems like an open question, so



if they are open from the 2nd, no €9 meal restriction,

7th , 14th and the 21st for 2 or 3 with the missus, we've been doing takeaway pints this past 6 weeks, but would prefer to sit down in the pub for them.



Maybe go out for a few with old home friends on the 24th, if any of them want to, its not up to me these day, if others dont want to go out, i wont be going out on my own, if i get no takers.


will play by ear after that, i don't plan too far ahead, you see.


with €9 meal restrictions, probably the same, but don't think theres any chance of meeting up with old mates over a meal.

Cheers. Like I say, I'm just curious about the reality of actually going to a pub if they open. Given the calendar and the fact that a lot of folks are working from home so it's not easy to do the usual "few pints after work cos it's December."

Drifter50

LuasSimon wrote: »

Many pubs in Dublin are Gastro pubs so noone in Dublin should have difficulty having a few drinks over the xmas.

And how do you think the ordinary person looking to have a drink is going to get one exactly. Can`t imagine all these gastro pubs to realistically take a booking from single people, can you?

If you don`t have family or friends to visit the pub is so important to get to meet people and actually talk to someone

SB71

@ Melbourne Man, i notice you responded to some users on here, but when i asked you a question you havent responded, i await your response.

MrStuffins

Deleted User wrote: »

Just curious. Let's imagine pubs are open again on the 2nd. How many days are you all going to spend in the pub? Between then and New Years?

Genuinely, I reckon i'll be in the pub quite a bit.

My main group of mates at least every weekend. Probably during the week as well.

Then there are other mates that you haven't been able to have a pint with. Various couples that me and the missus would normally hit the pub with but haven't been able to etc.

That's a lot of €9 meals but i'm willing to take the hit

FlubberJones

The €9 euro thing is a pain in the *rse as I drink more than I eat and don't even eat that much. But do we still have the ludicrous time limit too? The pub experience is dire enough without clock watching FFS.

SB71

MrStuffins wrote: »

Genuinely, I reckon i'll be in the pub quite a bit.

My main group of mates at least every weekend. Probably during the week as well.

Then there are other mates that you haven't been able to have a pint with. Various couples that me and the missus would normally hit the pub with but haven't been able to etc.

That's a lot of €9 meals but i'm willing to take the hit

usualy id only go once or twice a week but ill be going 4/5 times a week now, id done enough staying in to last a lifetime.:D

Chalk McHugh

Looks like hotels will open next week (Irish Times) and pubs possibly the week after. We'll know for sure tomorrow anyway. I wonder will the hotel bars be open next week and if they are and there's no time limit nonsense i'd imagine a lot of people taking up the offer of a hotel stay.

SAMTALK

Deleted User wrote: »

Another alter ego bites the dust? Your dubious track record around here doesn't lend you any credibility, you have been always been an unapologetic advocate for the government and NPHET - they can do absolutely no wrong in your eyes. Then you conjure up a far-fetched scenario of everyone losing the plot in the local, going out of their way to damage future prospects down the line. If you possessed any self-awareness you wouldn't have a straight face typing that, here's a newsflash for you: the hard sell isn't going over. And the pubs are most certainly opening again in December despite your strident claims. So for a finish the "Pintman" will be hiding behind the laptop, impotently raging at people responsibly socialising over a few jars. A delicious irony.

I'm no advocate for government or NPHET but in fairness he has a point. Whilst a lot of people will adhere to any guidelines you can be sure when the pints start flowing people will let their guard down.
This has nothing to do with being anti - pubs, it's just a fact of what happens after a few drinks.

SB71

Another thing which is isnt mentioned that much, the Garda will be doing rounds every single weekend coming into pubs checking to see if these pubs have an oven or grill :rolleyes: the time spent doing this will be huge,meanwhile this means less garda on the streets ,why hasnt any reporter mentioned this?

opinionated3

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

Looks like hotels will open next week (Irish Times) and pubs possibly the week after. We'll know for sure tomorrow anyway. I wonder will the hotel bars be open next week and if they are and there's no time limit nonsense i'd imagine a lot of people taking up the offer of a hotel stay.

Local hotel offering one night stays including a main meal for December at 50 euro per person. Apparently they're getting a significant upsurge in bookings.. .

Pintman Paddy Losty

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Another alter ego bites the dust? Your dubious track record around here doesn't lend you any credibility, you have been always been an unapologetic advocate for the government and NPHET - they can do absolutely no wrong in your eyes. Then you conjure up a far-fetched scenario of everyone losing the plot in the local, going out of their way to damage future prospects down the line. If you possessed any self-awareness you wouldn't have a straight face typing that, here's a newsflash for you: the hard sell isn't going over. And the pubs are most certainly opening again in December despite your strident claims. So for a finish the "Pintman" will be hiding behind the laptop, impotently raging at people responsibly socialising over a few jars. A delicious irony.

Stock up on cans cause the pubs won't be opening. Have a source close to the decision making process.

Well ones that serve food will be opening, but not the wet variety.

I see sheep

FlubberJones wrote: »

The €9 euro thing is a pain in the *rse as I drink more than I eat and don't even eat that much. But do we still have the ludicrous time limit too? The pub experience is dire enough without clock watching FFS.

During the summer it was order lunch/dinner then have as many pints as you want where I was, so I'm guessing the same will apply again.

Degag

Seems for the most part to be two polarising views in this thread.

A. Pubs are dangerous. People will be falling over themselves after a couple pints. All decorum will be lost. Virus will spread bigly. Many people will die. Pubs must remain closed and it will be a disgrace if any open.

B. Open all the pubs. There are no facts to prove thats pubs have contributed to the upsurge in cases. Publicans should defy the government, gardai and NPHET and just open if not allowed. They are anti-drink and anti-pub and just want them to close down.

I think it’s fairly clear that there might be a middle ground. At the end of the day we are in the middle of a pandemic and need to be in some way sensible. Some people need to calm down with the hysteria and hyperbole.

I personally hope they do open in some form and will be disappointed if they don’t but such is life.

Calm down folks

the rock29

I don'tagree with people acting the fool with drink but I can say pubs staff have been told no messing aloud they have been told we have to operate safely and if they don't like good luck your out because no pub is going to risk to get closed again after been closed for so long it wil be inforced to prove a point they can open safely

ShyMets

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Stock up on cans cause the pubs won't be opening. Have a source close to the decision making process.

Well ones that serve food will be opening, but not the wet variety.

Would that source be the Irish Independent and RTE who have being running with this story for the last few days

SB71

Degag wrote: »

Seems for the most part to be two polarising views in this thread.

A. Pubs are dangerous. People will be falling over themselves after a couple pints. All decorum will be lost. Virus will spread bigly. Many people will die. Pubs must remain closed and it will be a disgrace if any open.

B. Open all the pubs. There are no facts to prove thats pubs have contributed to the upsurge in cases. Publicans should defy the government, gardai and NPHET and just open if not allowed. They are anti-drink and anti-pub and just want them to close down.

I think it’s fairly clear that there might be a middle ground. At the end of the day we are in the middle of a pandemic and need to be in some way sensible. Some people need to calm down with the hysteria and hyperbole.

I personally hope they do open in some form and will be disappointed if they don’t but such is life.

Calm down folks

I dont think many would be actually be getting as worked up if it was proved beyond doubt that pubs were in fact responsible for a spike in cases , but the fact is no such proof has ever been produced to verify this, so with that your always going to get a serious backlash, especialy when peoples livelyhoods are at stake here,imagine working all your life and then having to survive on a pandemic payment ,with the possibility of your job being lost for good, just because of mere guesswork on behalf of so called medical professionals who have no reservations about crippling the economy, sorry mate you cant just expect people to just put up and shut up in this instance.

Tenzor07

SB71 wrote: »

I dont think many would be actually be getting as worked up if it was proved beyond doubt that pubs were in fact responsible for a spike in cases , but the fact is no such proof has ever been produced to verify this, so with that your always going to get a serious backlash, especialy when peoples livelyhoods are at stake here,imagine working all your life and then having to survive on a pandemic payment ,with the possibility of your job being lost for good, just because of mere guesswork on behalf of so called medical professionals who have no reservations about crippling the economy, sorry mate you cant just expect people to just put up and shut up in this instance.

Seems to me that people have been putting up and shutting up about the closure of Bars and restaurants... has there been even one protest about this?

Government has failed to support the Hospitality/tourism and Aviation sectors yet the streets are quiet... is the €300 a week enough to placate people?

Shutting down the pub trade instead of taking a sensible mature strategy on it such as a 10pm closing time for instance was ignored in favour of a hammer response... yet it seems people are eager to see what crumbs FFFG will give them this Friday.. a couple of weeks trading time then shutdown again until March?
The pub trade should refuse to open completely until all bars are allowed to open, Kitchen and chef or not...

SB71

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Seems to me that people have been putting up and shutting up about the closure of Bars and restaurants... has there been even one protest about this?

Government has failed to support the Hospitality/tourism and Aviation sectors yet the streets are quiet... is the €300 a week enough to placate people?

Shutting down the pub trade instead of taking a sensible mature strategy on it such as a 10pm closing time for instance was ignored in favour of a hammer response... yet it seems people are eager to see what crumbs FFFG will give them this Friday.. a couple of weeks trading time then shutdown again until March?
The pub trade should refuse to open completely until all bars are allowed to open, Kitchen and chef or not...

agreed thery should refuse to comply, but unfortunately many wont, and those who do will probably suffer, there should be some form of protest about this, if the black lives matter can stage a rally theres no reason why pubs and staff and patrons cant.

Tenzor07

SB71 wrote: »

agreed thery should refuse to comply, but unfortunately many wont, and those who do will probably suffer, there should be some form of protest about this, if the black lives matter can stage a rally theres no reason why pubs and staff and patrons cant.

The trade has to stand up to these crazy rules...a chef and a kitchen won't stop the Virus... at least allow non-food pubs to open and as a compromise make them close at 10pm if that keeps the medics happy, food pubs at 12 even.. not keeping them closed completely!

MrStuffins

Tenzor07 wrote: »

a chef and a kitchen won't stop the Virus

This is part of the problem. Stuff like this. You realise that they're hiring some sort of Chef/Ninja to make pizzas but simultaneously sneak up on the virus and karate chop it, right?

There are people who either genuinely think like this, or are willfully ignorant enough to put things like this forward as an argument. It shows a lack of even the most basic understanding of how things work.

"Oh, pubs will close at 11pm..... so the virus stops spreading at 11pm does it?"

If we take these people on face value, they are an absolute danger to the rest of us and are mainly the reason why we can't allow people to go nuts in pubs and need the restrictions.

Tenzor07

MrStuffins wrote: »

This is part of the problem. Stuff like this. You realise that they're hiring some sort of Chef/Ninja to make pizzas but simultaneously sneak up on the virus and karate chop it, right?
There are people who either genuinely think like this, or are willfully ignorant enough to put things like this forward as an argument. It shows a lack of even the most basic understanding of how things work.
"Oh, pubs will close at 11pm..... so the virus stops spreading at 11pm does it?"
If we take these people on face value, they are an absolute danger to the rest of us and are mainly the reason why we can't allow people to go nuts in pubs and need the restrictions.

Please enlighten us with the scientific data that shows how pubs are bigger sources of the virus spread than say private homes? House parties with cheap booze that can go on all night...

Also show us how people suddenly "Go Nuts" just because they are in a controlled clean regulated bar, 7 months after they closed... One bar in 7 months in a country of 5 million people isn't proof of this before you go there...

You stay happy with the restrictions imposed on you, meanwhile almost every other country in Europe had their bars open without needing a €9 meal/a chef to protect them from the virus, while in Ireland they remained closed

fin12

So if they don’t let the pubs that don’t serve food this month, that means then they won’t be opening till February/ March and it will be something else then to stop them. I suppose Paddy’s Day the issue then.

What a f*cking joke.

MrStuffins

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Please enlighten us with the scientific data that shows how pubs are bigger sources of the virus spread than say private homes? House parties with cheap booze that can go on all night...

House parties aren't allowed either.

Tenzor07

MrStuffins wrote: »

House parties aren't allowed either.

Last time I checked this isn't China and HP's have been going on all year....

MrStuffins

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Last time I checked this isn't China and HP's have been going on all year....

Ninja Chefs

"What about house parties, which are also not allowed?"

Bars where people's behaviour doesn't change with alcohol consumption

"What about other European countries?"

"What about China?"

Your arguments have more holes than a €9 substantial portion of Swiss Cheese!

Tenzor07

MrStuffins wrote: »

Ninja Chefs "What about house parties, which are also not allowed?" Bars where people's behaviour doesn't change with alcohol consumption"What about other European countries?""What about China?"
Your arguments have more holes than a €9 substantial portion of Swiss Cheese!

I've told you that the rest of Europe have had their bars open with restrictions since March..
And unless your head is buried in the sand then you'll know that House Parties have been going on more-so than before the bars were shut.

If you have a point I'd like to hear it... if you're just going to use Whacky "science" to justify your support of restrictions then no point in replying to me.

MrStuffins

Tenzor07 wrote: »

House Parties have been going on more-so than before the bars were shut.

My point is that there are people up and down the country who can't be trusted and who will act the b*llocks

Your answer to that is to tell me that there are people up and down the country, having house parties, and acting the b*llocks.

Glad we could agree on this!

MelbourneMan

MrStuffins wrote: »

My point is that there are people up and down the country who can't be trusted and who will act the b*llocks

Your answer to that is to tell me that there are people up and down the country, having house parties, and acting the b*llocks.

Glad we could agree on this!

To perhaps draw a close to this particular line of discussion, one must consider that on balance, despite some selfish, antisocial, and law breaking elements of society who will participate in so called house parties, the overall impact of this on case numbers is lower than it would be for the greater numbers who would patronise state sanctioned opening of public houses.

On balance, keeping pubs closed, and exerting punitive pressure on illegal congregations, is to the greater good, and thus the correct policy.

Tazz T

fin12 wrote: »

So if they don’t let the pubs that don’t serve food this month, that means then they won’t be opening till February/ March and it will be something else then to stop them. I suppose Paddy’s Day the issue then.

What a f*cking joke.

Not a chance until summer. Third wave will be kicking in Feb/Mar.

mightyreds

MelbourneMan wrote: »

To perhaps draw a close to this particular line of discussion, one must consider that on balance, despite some selfish, antisocial, and law breaking elements of society who will participate in so called house parties, the overall impact of this on case numbers is lower than it would be for the greater numbers who would patronise state sanctioned opening of public houses.

On balance, keeping pubs closed, and exerting punitive pressure on illegal congregations, is to the greater good, and thus the correct policy.

There is 0 pressure put on illegal congregations and they are growing, people I know are becoming less compliant, the amount of people I have heard say they were at a house gathering over the last 2 weeks is probably 60% of people i chat to.

I have been to the local pub, hotels and some restaurants when open and they were all compliant, they had people spaced out and took no messing, the craic was 0 it was terrible, no music no chatting to strangers.

I have also been over to friends for drinks and there is no control at the events music is on, everyone up dancing hugging, drink is cheaper so you bring more and get hammered, saves a fortune though thats the upside.

For me its much of a muchness just fed up of spending 90% of my time in the same 4 walls would like to actually get out and live a bit now.

Tenzor07

MrStuffins wrote: »

My point is that there are people up and down the country who can't be trusted and who will act the b*llocks
Your answer to that is to tell me that there are people up and down the country, having house parties, and acting the b*llocks.
Glad we could agree on this!

Yea, still not a scientific reason to keep the pubs closed..."can't be trusted and who will act the b*llocks"

Tenzor07

mightyreds wrote: »

There is 0 pressure put on illegal congregations and they are growing, people I know are becoming less compliant, the amount of people I have heard say they were at a house gathering over the last 2 weeks is probably 60% of people i chat to.
I have been to the local pub, hotels and some restaurants when open and they were all compliant, they had people spaced out and took no messing, the craic was 0 it was terrible, no music no chatting to strangers.
I have also been over to friends for drinks and there is no control at the events music is on, everyone up dancing hugging, drink is cheaper so you bring more and get hammered, saves a fortune though thats the upside.
For me its much of a muchness just fed up of spending 90% of my time in the same 4 walls would like to actually get out and live a bit now.

This is my basic point, keeping Bars closed achieves nothing except to put companies out of businesses permanently, keep workers dependent on the state for income, kill commerce in city areas where Bars are located meaning everyone from the retail/food workers to Taxi drivers also lose income and have to rely on the state for income..

People at least can be regulated in Bars..

growleaves

MelbourneMan wrote: »

To perhaps draw a close to this particular line of discussion, one must consider that on balance, despite some selfish, antisocial, and law breaking elements of society who will participate in so called house parties, the overall impact of this on case numbers is lower than it would be for the greater numbers who would patronise state sanctioned opening of public houses.

On balance, keeping pubs closed, and exerting punitive pressure on illegal congregations, is to the greater good, and thus the correct policy.

I disagree. I think what you're saying - especially when you use words like "deviant" or "antisocial" - is an inversion of the truth.

We should be putting pressure on people like yourself to stop championing a destructive, unethical policy that impairs freedom, prosperity and rips up the social fabric and instead follow a policy that is at least neutral with respect to these fundamental aspects of our lives. As many in our medical and scientific community (i.e. the Dr. Jack Lambert group of 170 doctors and scientists) now recommend.

fin12

Tazz T wrote: »

Not a chance until summer. Third wave will be kicking in Feb/Mar.

No lockdown in January again so opening up again February/ March. Rolling lockdowns.....

When they open economy again March , will use Paddy’s Day as excuse pubs can’t open.

MrStuffins

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Yea, still not a scientific reason to keep the pubs closed..."can't be trusted and who will act the b*llocks"

You're calling for science, but literally a few posts up from this you called science "whacky" and even put the word in quotes

Tenzor07 wrote: »

If you have a point I'd like to hear it... if you're just going to use Whacky "science" to justify your support of restrictions then no point in replying to me.

You're all over the shop pal.

BringBackMick

Nobody to open?