Opening of "No-Food" pubs pushed out again

weldoninhio

MelbourneMan wrote: »

I would refer you to my post a couple of stages above and ask you to similarly consider, do you truly think it at all possible that those tasked with providing pandemic analysis advice to the government at this time would have any such motivation as an 'anti alcohol narrative'? Again, I would suggest this shows rather a lack of understanding of their terms of reference, the people involved, and the issues they are dealing with, or, something closer to an imagined conspiracy theory as a placeholder for that lack of understanding. Can you cite any firm evidence for your impression ?

I would urge people to accept the bona fides, knowledge, experience, and motivation to act in the interest of Ireland's fight against the pandemic, of the members of NPHET. Anyone doubting it is surely displaying some irrational frustration rather than truly arriving at that erroneous conclusion through considered reflection.

It would do everyone good to accept that there is no incompetence, hidden agendas, 'anti-pub' bias, or other such imagined motivations behind NPHET's advice.

Why did Dr Death allow hundreds enter Ireland in March/April of this year to attend an anti-alcohol conference when all sports and public gatherings etc were banned, if he was not anti-alcohol??

LuasSimon

Restaurants will do well to open in December not to mind gastro pubs listening to Nphet spokespeople.

Degag

weldoninhio wrote: »

Dr Death

Is this rubbish really necessary?

MrStuffins

weldoninhio wrote: »

Dr Death

Anyone who doesn't want the pubs to be opened unrestricted immediately gets shouted down with "agenda".

And then they post stuff like this.

Hulk Hands

MrStuffins wrote: »

Anyone who doesn't want the pubs to be opened unrestricted immediately gets shouted down with "agenda".

And then they post stuff like this.

Despite that, the point is very valid.

When everything was being shut down in March, why did Mr. Holohan brush off questioning and say "no need to cancel" the anti alcohol event? A thousand plus group of attendees from all over the world, just as the pandemic was reaching fever pitch

weldoninhio

MrStuffins wrote: »

Anyone who doesn't want the pubs to be opened unrestricted immediately gets shouted down with "agenda".

And then they post stuff like this.

No reply as to why hundreds were allowed travel to Ireland to talk about the dangers of delicious creamy pints??

Who, in this or any other thread, has asked for “pubs to be opened unrestricted immediately”?? Your mask is slipping. Pun unintended.

MrStuffins

weldoninhio wrote: »

No reply as to why hundreds were allowed travel to Ireland to talk about the dangers of delicious creamy pints??

Sorry I don't deal in whataboutery. This thread is about pubs.

Who, in this or any other thread, has asked for “pubs to be opened unrestricted immediately”??

Loads of people on this very thread.

never_mind

BringBackMick wrote: »

Nobody to open?

I heard this. What bothers me is the rhetoric around house parties. Sorry, but we all know what happens in pubs... with a few drinks on board a lot of my mates will invite me round to theirs afterwards - I'm not a teenager, I haven't been to a houseparty in years but I have been in people's house after a few pints to wind down on the way home.

I heard earlier that NPHET are advising against gastro pubs to not open - it's is getting a bit ridiculous at this stage. For one sector to be scapegoated to this extreme is a bit non-sensical. I know myself that when I do go to a pub it's usually me and my OH and maybe 1-2 others for food and a few drinks then home to bed (unless we bring them home with us for a night cap - how posh of us!). The fact is that there is no hard data in Irish contexts that has shown that pubs create an upsurge of vetors. Let them open and regulate and monitor them - don't throw them under the bus.

We all want Covid to be over and it's not. The plan to 'live' with Covid is now turning into a plan to 'exist' with Covid. Some people (drinkers and non-drinkers alike) have decided that alcohol and one extreme example of the Berlin Bar in town are to blame for the surges. Schools, hospitals, and nursing homes seem to be the hot beds. 'Community transmission' is a lazy way of saying they didn't bother to contract trace effectively.

Open the gastro pubs at the very least and give businesses and people a chance to enjoy what remnants of the sector is left. It's too easy to say "if you don't like it, don't go"; it's a lazy way of arguing for the opening of pubs. What we should be looking at is enforcing Covid measures in these areas. Some say it's non-essential, but social lives are essential - we are social beings, it's literally in our DNA.

weldoninhio

MrStuffins wrote: »

Sorry I don't deal in whataboutery. This thread is about pubs.



Loads of people on this very thread.

Yes. And an anti-pub conference is very relevant to it.

MrStuffins

weldoninhio wrote: »

Yes. And an anti-pub conference is very relevant to it.

Sounds like whataboutery to me.

It's ironinc that you are crying about anti this, anti that, masks slipping etc........

Your "Dr Death" jibes and the like shows exactly where the real bias lies!

weldoninhio

weldoninhio wrote: »

No reply as to why hundreds were allowed travel to Ireland to talk about the dangers of delicious creamy pints??

Who, in this or any other thread, has asked for “pubs to be opened unrestricted immediately”?? Your mask is slipping. Pun unintended.

Exactly, why bother engaging in honest debate when you can dream up nonsensical tangents. As the argument against reopening the traditional pubs is lost, fantasy becomes their only friend: "no restrictions means anarchy...people getting plastered...jumping on each other...Covid will be unstoppable..." and other irrational drivel. What unites all of these gloom merchants is that they haven't been near a pub in a long time, then neither should anyone else in December and beyond. Staying at home minding their own business isn't good enough, they want to meddle in other people's affairs because it gives their miserable existence meaning.

weldoninhio

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Exactly, why bother engaging in honest debate when you can dream up nonsensical tangents. As the argument against reopening the traditional pubs is lost, fantasy becomes their only friend: "no restrictions means anarchy...people getting plastered...jumping on each other...Covid will be unstoppable..." and other irrational drivel. What unites all of these gloom merchants is that they haven't been near a pub in a long time, then neither should anyone else in December and beyond. Staying at home minding their own business isn't good enough, they want to meddle in other people's affairs because it gives their miserable existence meaning.

100% and it’s absolutely pathetic.

Degag

weldoninhio wrote: »

Yes. And an anti-pub conference is very relevant to it.

I had not heard about this conference but after googling i presume you are speaking about a Global Alcohol Policy Conference that apparently took place in Dublin Castle from 9th-11th March.

We were not in Lockdown at that stage. Nearly all sporting events were going ahead i believe. Pubs were all open for another few days after it finished. So i'm not sure what he was supposed to do about it when there were no restrictions for any other event that was taking place.

Not sure as to what the conference entailed but it sounds pretty disingenuous to call it anti-alcohol seeing as it seems to be around alcohol policy and regulation which is a totally different thing.

PTH2009

I'm guessing they will get rid of the rule in where you can stay as long as you want once you're 2m away from another table?

105 mins across the board, no way will places tell the locals yo buzz off after that time.

weldoninhio

MrStuffins wrote: »

Sounds like whataboutery to me.

It's ironinc that you are crying about anti this, anti that, masks slipping etc........

Your "Dr Death" jibes and the like shows exactly where the real bias lies!

Sounds like whataboutery to me.

Why you talking about my “jibes”, I thought “ This thread is about pubs.”?? Holohan is provably against pubs, he is advising the govt about keeping pubs closed. Isn’t this a conflict of interests?

weldoninhio

Degag wrote: »

I had not heard about this conference but after googling i presume you are speaking about a Global Alcohol Policy Conference that apparently took place in Dublin Castle from 9th-11th March.

We were not in Lockdown at that stage. Nearly all sporting events were going ahead i believe. Pubs were all open for another few days after it finished. So i'm not sure what he was supposed to do about it when there were no restrictions for any other event that was taking place.

Not sure as to what the conference entailed but it sounds pretty disingenuous to call it anti-alcohol seeing as it seems to be around alcohol policy and regulation which is a totally different thing.

Ireland vs Italy had been cancelled and Italian fans were asked not to travel to Ireland. That was 26th February. Yet hundreds of the temperance movement were welcomed a week or two later. I wonder how many attended the Conference Gala Dinner. St Patrick’s Day was also cancelled by this stage.

MrStuffins

Degag wrote: »

I had not heard about this conference but after googling i presume you are speaking about a Global Alcohol Policy Conference that apparently took place in Dublin Castle from 9th-11th March.

We were not in Lockdown at that stage. Nearly all sporting events were going ahead i believe. Pubs were all open for another few days after it finished. So i'm not sure what he was supposed to do about it when there were no restrictions for any other event that was taking place.

Not sure as to what the conference entailed but it sounds pretty disingenuous to call it anti-alcohol seeing as it seems to be around alcohol policy and regulation which is a totally different thing.

Maybe this "Dr Death" is one of the X Men who is able to see into the future or something?

weldoninhio

MrStuffins wrote: »

Maybe this "Dr Death" is one of the X Men who is able to see into the future or something?

That’ll be Tony, who bullied NHI into reopening to visitors, how did that work out?

Tony who advised moving people out of hospital, without testing, into Nursing Homes, how did that work out?

Tony, who despite clear evidence he was fully aware of the cervical cancer scandal in 2016 and failed to tell either the former health minister and now Tanaiste, Leo Varadkar, or the former Health Minister Simon Harris, how did that work out?

Scoundrel

NPHET recommending only take away???? They need to be told where to stick their recommendations and government need to govern.

Open the Pubs

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/restaurants-and-pubs-should-only-be-allowed-to-offer-takeaway-over-christmas-nphet-says-39796129.html

Only takeaway pints says Tony.

Degag

weldoninhio wrote: »

Ireland vs Italy had been cancelled and Italian fans were asked not to travel to Ireland. That was 26th February. Yet hundreds of the temperance movement were welcomed a week or two later. I wonder how many attended the Conference Gala Dinner. St Patrick’s Day was also cancelled by this stage.

Hadn't realised/forgotten that the Italy game was cancelled that early. But that was a direct consequence of the dire situation that country was in at that stage obviously.

St Patricks Day was cancelled on the 9th - for the following week - when this conference was already in progress. As were countless others throughout the country i would guess.

I guess we can all look back and say there were mistakes made and lots of things that one would do differently if one could, that unfortunately is life, but i restate the fact that it's disingenuous to pick on one conference not being cancelled and called him/them anti-alcohol as a result when we were not in lockdown and the conference was not even "anti-alcohol" in theme from the sounds of it.

Tenzor07

Open the Pubs wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/restaurants-and-pubs-should-only-be-allowed-to-offer-takeaway-over-christmas-nphet-says-39796129.html

Only takeaway pints says Tony.

That's the end of it so... Looks like those who are happy to see the pubs open for a week so they can "enjoy delicious creamy pints" with their mates will be bitterly disappointed!

Richard Hillman

We are seeing the consequences of having a subservient, weak as piss leader. Holohan should be sacked. Micheal Martin needs to show for once in his life that he can lead. Holohan wouldn't be big-dicking Varadkar or MaryLou Mcdonald. He'd would have been out back in his box months ago.

Tenzor07

Richard Hillman wrote: »

We are seeing the consequences of having a subservient, weak as piss leader. Holohan should be sacked. Micheal Martin needs to show for once in his life that he can lead. Holohan wouldn't be big-dicking Varadkar or MaryLou Mcdonald. He'd would have been out back in his box months ago.

Sacked? He should be in Jail!

NPHET needs to be disbanded and a Govt. committee set up to bring the country through the next 6 months focussing on Health, Brexit and the economy, we've given 8 months to Holohan and this group.. enough!

Degag

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Sacked? He should be in Jail!

Oh dear lord.

doublejobbing 2

Hilarious. I saw it reported that NPHET used the example that Germany has shut bars until January as an excuse as to why we should do same.

For whatever reason the pub policy of quite literally every other country outside of Saudi Arabia wasnt worth following in the summer and autumn, but now Germany is suddenly the lads to follow.

vid36

France has also closed bar and restaurants until January 20

fin12

vid36 wrote: »

France has also closed bar and restaurants until January 20

Have the pubs that only serve drink in France only been opened for 2 weeks in the whole f*cking year? At least compare like with like.

saabsaab

The takeaway should do many. That and the fact that several pubs are open by the back door anyway.

LuasSimon

It'll be worth it in the end keeping the pubs closed until the new year

MelbourneMan

I see that the NPHET recommendation to government has now been made public. It is eminently sensible and I support it.

There really is no cogent argument against it.

Having said that, it is only a recommendation, which the cabinet can take note of, and determine the implementation of policy accordingly, being also cognisant of the wider range of economic, social, business, and public perception factors. On this particular element of their programme for modifications to covid control measure over the next month or so however, they are likely to recognise the benefits of a mix of closures and limited takeaway procedures, as being the clear best choice.

saabsaab

Less pub more for Santa.

MrStuffins

NPHET can recommend what they like, but my prediction is that we'll get some open pubs with restrictions.

I hope so anyway.

Fitz*

LuasSimon wrote: »

It'll be worth it in the end keeping the pubs closed until the new year

Well that's a load of crap. We've heard this many times already the last 8 or 9 months. 'just two more weeks and they'll open' etc but they never do. What was the last one, 6 week strict lockdown and you can have a week at Christmas'. How is that turning out?

Pubs & restaurants won't open in the new year at this rate. Just wait til the new year and a new lockdown will be introduced at the start of January because of 'Christmas cases'. The line of "just four more weeks lads and then ye will be back having pints" still be trotted out again.

Then eventually, come February and restaurants will be allowed to open up but again pubs are held back 'just for another 3 weeks lads' but by the time are restrictions over its getting very close to Paddy's Day. 'Just imagining opening pubs for the first time in a year so close to the biggest drinking day of the year' people will say.....

saabsaab

MrStuffins wrote: »

NPHET can recommend what they like, but my prediction is that we'll get some open pubs with restrictions.

I hope so anyway.

You are probably right but the restrictions will be strong, in theory anyway.

stephenjmcd

MelbourneMan wrote: »

I see that the NPHET recommendation to government has now been made public. It is eminently sensible and I support it.

Theres a shock...... did you view the letter before it was sent to government?

stephenjmcd

LuasSimon wrote: »

It'll be worth it in the end keeping the pubs closed until the new year

Haha and you think if they don't open now they'll open in new year. Absolutely no chance, we're going to be getting restrictions in Jan/Feb, everyone can see that

HBC08

Hellrazer wrote: »

This is the problem. NPHET while Id probably disagree with the "experts" status youve given them are exactly what you describe ie so called "experts" in public health.

NPHET should have had a few economists / business persons on the team in order to to balance out the danger to our economy and country as well as our health.
An economist could have given an alternative view to lockdowns and restrictions or maybe come up with an alternative altogether to what we are getting from NPHET.

Our economy has to survive this as well as our people.





The flaws in their thinking is that its a single tunnelled vision view of the whole pandemic.

This virus doesnt kill as many as NPHET make out it does. We could have had parts of the economy open for business as usual while protecting the vulnerable.

It's NPHETs job to do the above,it's the government's job to take on board their HEALTH advice and then make final decisions.
The government wont take any responsibility and are hiding behind NPHET,idiots are blaming NPHET.
Round and round we go.

didyoufart?

I'm off to the local for 7 or 8 pints of Ale.

Social distancing taking place so screw the begrudgers.

PTH2009

Jesus christ this is grim very grim,. No way can I see MM reject the advice after the spat in a few months ago

The night of the toy show could be a little grim

Zebra3

Open the Pubs wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/restaurants-and-pubs-should-only-be-allowed-to-offer-takeaway-over-christmas-nphet-says-39796129.html

Only takeaway pints says Tony.

Only last week takeaway pints were a problem.

It’s almost like nobody has a clue, but just “do something” is the mantra.

Hector Savage

LuasSimon wrote: »

It'll be worth it in the end keeping the pubs closed until the new year

100% agree, in fact I think they should keep the pubs closed till January 2023 - just to be really safe.

We should be pretty much at zero covid by then.

never_mind

PTH2009 wrote: »

Jesus christ this is grim very grim,. No way can I see MM reject the advice after the spat in a few months ago

The night of the toy show could be a little grim

Maybe I’m naive but I think he might go against that. Who cares about the spats, they’ve happened a few times! I think he will prob go with restricted hours and some other non rule like only two members of a household and one has to be a cousin of yours twice removed.

MrStuffins

didyoufart? wrote: »

I'm off to the local for 7 or 8 pints of Ale.

Social distancing taking place so screw the begrudgers.

Sure you are Walter

weldoninhio

never_mind wrote: »

Maybe I’m naive but I think he might go against that. Who cares about the spats, they’ve happened a few times! I think he will prob go with restricted hours and some other non rule like only two members of a household and one has to be a cousin of yours twice removed.

One person has to remain in the back garden at all times.

speckle

Not everyone goes to the local non food pub to drink alcohol.. I go for tea and in the afternoon I see many more locals do the same. Remember all the musicians who play in pubs as well I like listening to them. Even the hill walking healthy active people meet there. Everone catches up on the local news, if someone needs help or is ill or bereaved people offer to help. And yes at times their are gathering and some people who drink to much so they are safely seen home and offered a bit of advice.

Dont want to find out about another person found dead or have to call an ambulance because they are drinking home alone. And the government dont care which we know because of the lack of investment in rehab beds and post pychological and practical care.

Open the Pubs

Zebra3 wrote: »

Only last week takeaway pints were a problem.

It’s almost like nobody has a clue, but just “do something” is the mantra.

There is no leadership, this jumped up coalition is a mess.

Some video of people drinking on the street lands on twitter, quick lets do something, ban takeaway pints. Cue meltdown online. Oh no lets not ban them at all.

never_mind

Open the Pubs wrote: »

There is no leadership, this jumped up coalition is a mess.

Some video of people drinking on the street lands on twitter, quick lets do something, ban takeaway pints. Cue meltdown online. Oh no lets not ban them at all.

Advice: meet outdoors only, pubs doing takeaway pints only.
People: ok, let’s meet outdoors and have a takeaway pint
Advice: do no meet outdoors! No wait... no you can, but not LIKE that. And also ban takeaway pints. But we might not ban them. Eh.

I hope you enjoyed my ted talk.

It will be next/near impossible to keep pubs closed,once vaccination rolls out.....and im not huge drinker,but looking forward to blowing off steam when all this over




I know of several pubs open mid week,and of a few more letting locals in sat evening for the waterford v kk match....

Not that il be going....but its time to begining opening on restricted hours (maybe a 10pm.close etc)

PTH2009

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It will be next/near impossible to keep pubs closed,once vaccination rolls out.....and im not huge drinker,but looking forward to blowing off steam when all this over




I know of several pubs open mid week,and of a few more letting locals in sat evening for the waterford v kk match....

Not that il be going....but its time to begining opening on restricted hours (maybe a 10pm.close etc)

Dr Tony won't let them open and MM will listen and take his advice