Opening of "No-Food" pubs pushed out again

brisan

MelbourneMan wrote: »

There has been no decision made yet, but I would be very concerned is there is a yielding to lobbying pressure and they are let open.

Even the limited opening of pubs with their own facilities and chef for food brings what to my view are unacceptable risks.

I think your views have been dismissed as nonsense on the restrictions thread

brisan

Hellrazer wrote: »

This is the problem. NPHET while Id probably disagree with the "experts" status youve given them are exactly what you describe ie so called "experts" in public health.

NPHET should have had a few economists / business persons on the team in order to to balance out the danger to our economy and country as well as our health.
An economist could have given an alternative view to lockdowns and restrictions or maybe come up with an alternative altogether to what we are getting from NPHET.

Our economy has to survive this as well as our people.





The flaws in their thinking is that its a single tunnelled vision view of the whole pandemic.

This virus doesnt kill as many as NPHET make out it does. We could have had parts of the economy open for business as usual while protecting the vulnerable.

If NPHET and the HSE had protected the nursing homes and the hospitals a second lockdown would not have been necessary
Its purely a power trip and an anti-alcohol agenda being pushed by Holohan

Chalk McHugh

I think it's an absolute disgrace the way the people are being treated. We all did our bit for this painfully long 6 week lockdown with the caveat that restrictions would be lifted and we could enjoy some social interaction thereafter.

All noises coming out of government with newspaper and other media leaks over the last week was of the hospitality sector (excluding wet pubs) opening up as of next Tuesday.

Then few days ago the goalposts changed slightly with gastro pubs and restaraunts rumoured to open the following week on Mon Dec 7. I think we could accept that and look forward to enjoying catching up with friends over the christmas period

But after getting our hopes up we hear today at very last hour that those purveyors of misery Nphet have strongly recommended any joy or hope we had for a little bit of festive cheer be crushed under Titan Tony's boot of social destruction.

If the government take this nphet advice this time i think the people will never forgive them. Or forget. We have done our best and played by the rules (the vast majority of us). It is time they let a little glimmer of light back into our darkened lives.

dmakc

To **** with Tony at this stage. Jesus.

PommieBast

The thread Famous Dublin pubs that are no more is starting to get busy

doublejobbing 2

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

I

But after getting our hopes up we hear today at very last hour that those purveyors of misery Nphet have strongly recommended any joy or hope we had for a little bit of festive cheer be crushed under Titan Tony's boot of social destruction.

.

Wait. Surely nobody actually thought NPHET would recommend that pubs could re open.

That was a given. There was never a hope they would recommend it.

I don't think they ever wanted any pubs reopening last summer full stop- it was only when when restaurants were due to open in July and pubs in August and pubs pointed out that they were technically restaurants and would plough ahead, that the government agreed rather than get bogged down in legal argument.

Holohan and a few nerds in government want to kill the pub off, full stop.

Tenzor07

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

But after getting our hopes up we hear today at very last hour that those purveyors of misery Nphet have strongly recommended any joy or hope we had for a little bit of festive cheer be crushed under Titan Tony's boot of social destruction.
If the government take this nphet advice this time i think the people will never forgive them. Or forget. We have done our best and played by the rules (the vast majority of us). It is time they let a little glimmer of light back into our darkened lives.

When they take "advice" you mean.... This will be the final nail in the coffin for many pubs and restaurants who've been holding on till the end of the year and will now close the doors permanently... December/Christmas was the last chance many had to make enough money to keep the lights on for a few more months, take that away and many will hand back the keys in January...

The only Bar/Restaurants that will open again next Summer will be the likes of Wetherspoons and some of the larger companies in Dublin...

In case you doubt that, just look at the noises coming from The Leak: https://www.independent.ie/news/pubs-opening-could-lead-to-more-house-parties-varadkar-tells-dail-39795040.html

Or what the NPHET are saying now, restrict homes, shopping centres, travel and we'll let you go for a meal and a pint!!

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/reopening-hospitality-sector-will-mean-limiting-christmas-gatherings-nphet-warns-1.4420274

Beasty

MelbourneMan wrote: »

I see that the NPHET recommendation to government has now been made public. It is eminently sensible and I support it.

I really wish they would not make any of this "public" until the Government has made its decision

All this does is put pressure on the Government at a time when clear heads are needed

NPHET represent only one "lobby" in this whole debate. Yes arguably the most important lobby, but I find the way they go about things quite distasteful on occasion

The White Wolf

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

But after getting our hopes up we hear today at very last hour that those purveyors of misery Nphet have strongly recommended any joy or hope we had for a little bit of festive cheer be crushed under Titan Tony's boot of social destruction.

If the government take this nphet advice this time i think the people will never forgive them. Or forget. We have done our best and played by the rules (the vast majority of us). It is time they let a little glimmer of light back into our darkened lives.

To be fair it's not all down to Tony Holohan. Listen to the radio and you'll find no end of gob****es, both so called professionals and ordinary people, who are in support of maintaining restrictions. NPHET know this and act accordingly.

The sad reality is that there are a lot of people who will happily live like this for a long time without one hint of a care about the repercussions.

doublejobbing 2

The White Wolf wrote: »

To be fair it's not all down to Tony Holohan. Listen to the radio and you'll find no end of gob****es, both so called professionals and ordinary people, who are in support of maintaining restrictions. NPHET know this and act accordingly.

The sad reality is that there are a lot of people who will happily live like this for a long time without one hint of a care about the repercussions.

A great deal of the pro lockdown twitter mob are asocial lefties who are feckin chomping at the bit to stay on enhanced rate welfare til the end of time.

The White Wolf

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

A great deal of the pro lockdown twitter mob are asocial lefties who are feckin chomping at the bit to stay on enhanced rate welfare til the end of time.

I'm not sure about the leftie stuff but yeah it's generally a mob of bitter/miserable people completely cut off from society.

The type of muppet who rings up a talkshow saying they're delighted to have a reason now to turn relatives and in laws away from their door.

GazzaL

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

A great deal of the pro lockdown twitter mob are asocial lefties who are feckin chomping at the bit to stay on enhanced rate welfare til the end of time.

NPHET and the pro lockdown mob are lunatics. I know loads of people who are going out every day and working as hard as they've ever worked, and 40% of their earnings are being plundered to pay for the fascists in NPHET and the social welfare crowd.

saabsaab

GazzaL wrote: »

NPHET and the pro lockdown mob are lunatics. I know loads of people who are going out every day and working as hard as they've ever worked, and 40% of their earnings are being plundered to pay for the fascists in NPHET and the social welfare crowd.

Now you are talking like a lunatic.
I like a pint or two but a reopening without the rates being very low is madness.



Maybe restricted hours, open windows, social distancing 6 pint limits might be ok for a week or two?

The White Wolf

saabsaab wrote: »

Now you are talking like a lunatic.
I like a pint or two but a reopening without the rates being very low is madness.



Maybe restricted hours, open windows, social distancing 6 pint limits might be ok for a week or two?

What's a low enough number though and what's the reaction once an inevitable spike happens when restrictions are eased? We can't keep playing this merry go round game.

Nobody wants a free for all but if the last 6 weeks have proved anything with the "unsatisfactory" figures, it's that such harsh lockdowns are not the solution.

We need to cop on and give up this idea of barely any or zero cases because you simply can't control society like that, unless that is what we're talking about wanting? It's a pretty slippery slope.

hynesie08

saabsaab wrote: »

Now you are talking like a lunatic.
I like a pint or two but a reopening without the rates being very low is madness.



Maybe restricted hours, open windows, social distancing 6 pint limits might be ok for a week or two?

So, basically put the pubs in a situation where it would be completely unviable to open but remove any government support because they'd be choosing not to......

Do people understand that when covid goes away we actually need an economy for it to recover.....

saabsaab

The White Wolf wrote: »

What's a low enough number though and what's the reaction once an inevitable spike happens when restrictions are eased? We can't keep playing this merry go round game.

Nobody wants a free for all but if the last 6 weeks have proved anything with the "unsatisfactory" figures, it's that such harsh lockdowns are not the solution.

We need to cop on and give up this idea of barely any or zero cases because you simply can't control society like that, unless that is what we're talking about wanting? It's a pretty slippery slope.

Under 200 daily was given.

GazzaL

hynesie08 wrote: »

So, basically put the pubs in a situation where it would be completely unviable to open but remove any government support because they'd be choosing not to......

Do people understand that when covid goes away we actually need an economy for it to recover.....

It's the "I'm alright, Jack" mentality from NPHET and the pro lockdown nutters. Perpetual lockdowns are an attack on basic personal freedoms. They are disastrous in economic terms, and disastrous for people who have been forced out of work. The WHO strongly advise against lockdowns, and only recommend their use as a last resort.

The White Wolf

saabsaab wrote: »

Under 200 daily was given.

Why is under 200 a magic number? What's the reaction once a week later it's twice that? Another meltdown? These are the questions people don't want to answer because they can't.

Zebra3

The White Wolf wrote: »

To be fair it's not all down to Tony Holohan. Listen to the radio and you'll find no end of gob****es, both so called professionals and ordinary people, who are in support of maintaining restrictions. NPHET know this and act accordingly.

The sad reality is that there are a lot of people who will happily live like this for a long time without one hint of a care about the repercussions.

Wait until the Covid Tax is brought in.

Same people will be outraged.

Like the bear tax in the Simpsons.

hynesie08

GazzaL wrote: »

It's the "I'm alright, Jack" mentality from NPHET and the pro lockdown nutters. Perpetual lockdowns are an attack on basic personal freedoms. They are disastrous in economic terms, and disastrous for people who have been forced out of work. The WHO strongly advise against lockdowns, and only recommend their use as a last resort.

NPHET don't have to care about the economy though, that's not their job, what happened to the task force that was supposed to process NPHETs advice? Are there any economists weighing in on the situation? Or has a pandemic that has destroyed jobs lives and families become a Pissing contest between Tony and Leo? (I'd be surprised if Michael could even piss his pants.....)

lukas8888

PTH2009 wrote: »

Dr Tony won't let them open and MM will listen and take his advice

As near to a certainty that your wrong,they may introduce more idiotic restrictions around numbers,opening hours, food kitchens etc but a back bench revolt would take place if they bowed to Nphet pressure.

hmmm

lukas8888 wrote: »

As near to a certainty that your wrong,they may introduce more idiotic restrictions around numbers,opening hours, food kitchens etc but a back bench revolt would take place if they bowed to Nphet pressure.

That's great and all, but the virus hasn't gone away. We'll be straight back into lockdowns in January as cases spike if we simply pretend it doesn't exist.

In my opinion the vintners need to decide what they want - open for a couple of weeks in December and back into lockdown, or a more sustainable opening probably in February-ish as the vaccines are rolled out.

hynesie08

hmmm wrote: »

That's great and all, but the virus hasn't gone away. We'll be straight back into lockdowns in January as cases spike if we simply pretend it doesn't exist.

In my opinion the vintners need to decide what they want - open for a couple of weeks in December and back into lockdown, or a more sustainable opening probably in February-ish as the vaccines are rolled out.

They probably want to have a business in February, can't open a bankrupt business

fin12

hmmm wrote: »

That's great and all, but the virus hasn't gone away. We'll be straight back into lockdowns in January as cases spike if we simply pretend it doesn't exist.

In my opinion the vintners need to decide what they want - open for a couple of weeks in December and back into lockdown, or a more sustainable opening probably in February-ish as the vaccines are rolled out.

Whether the pubs open or not, lockdown in January is happening, it has f*ck all to do with pubs never has. Jesus Christ. The country is being run by a bunch of lunatics.

hmmm

hynesie08 wrote: »

They probably want to have a business in February, can't open a bankrupt business

A pub that opens in December for a few weeks and is then shut in the new year as cases spike doesn't sound very viable either. How much will publicans be investing in stock?

hynesie08

hmmm wrote: »

A pub that opens in December for a few weeks and is then shut in the new year as cases spike doesn't sound very viable either. How much will publicans be investing in stock?

You realise that a pubs turnover in December is 8-10 times that in February......

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

fin12 wrote: »

Whether the pubs open or not, lockdown in January is happening, it has f*ck all to do with pubs never has. Jesus Christ. The country is being run by a bunch of lunatics.

Flatten the economy.

MelbourneMan

lukas8888 wrote: »

As near to a certainty that your wrong,they may introduce more idiotic restrictions around numbers,opening hours, food kitchens etc but a back bench revolt would take place if they bowed to Nphet pressure.

I would take issue with the idea of bowing to pressure.
For clarity :
- NPHET provides impartial best scientific advice for the benefit of the government making informed decisions
- NPHET has no remit, and does not, exceed their terms of reference in that regard.

Thus, any modifications to the measure taken to curtail the spread of Covid 19 are the decisions and responsibilty of the government, and the government alone.

And furthermore, it is clear to all those who have not lost their reason by virtue of being restrained from patronising pubs as they might have done in the past, the guidance being given by NPHET is of a very high standard. And to their credit, the acceptance and implementation of its implications by the government, is to be commended.

lukas8888

hmmm wrote: »

That's great and all, but the virus hasn't gone away. We'll be straight back into lockdowns in January as cases spike if we simply pretend it doesn't exist.

In my opinion the vintners need to decide what they want - open for a couple of weeks in December and back into lockdown, or a more sustainable opening probably in February-ish as the vaccines are rolled out.

Not disagreeing with any of the above, but i was only making the point that in my opinion the Government will give the green light to restaurants and food pubs .

completedit

Can Holohan answer what will his advise be one a vaccine is released and people continue to die from Covid. Will he still believe any sort of normality is "dangerous" then?

hmmm

hynesie08 wrote: »

You realise that a pubs turnover in December is 8-10 times that in February......

That would only happen in normal times. Pubs will have to reopen with social distancing so there will be limits on numbers and I'd say probably a more even distribution - I wouldn't dismiss the psychological impact vaccines will make either early in the new year in terms of giving people confidence to return.

fin12

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Flatten the economy.

We are all going to be very bad boys n girls in December and will have enjoyed ourselves too much over December so have to punished in January with another lockdown. Like they haven’t even lifted the restrictions yet and they are literally salivating at the mouth thinking about the next lockdown. Very sick individuals at work here. I mean I nearly got sick when I heard that twat Covney go about Santa travelling and there’s people who’ve had their business closed nearly the entire year.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

hynesie08 wrote: »

You realise that a pubs turnover in December is 8-10 times that in February......

Ordinarily.

Extra staff for table service. Extra staff for cleaning. Extra staff to serve you chicken nuggets. Extra equipment possibly. Less than 50% capacity. Time limits. Early closing.

If I was a publican I honestly wouldn't bother.

hynesie08

hmmm wrote: »

That would only happen in normal times. Pubs will have to reopen with social distancing so there will be limits on numbers and I'd say probably a more even distribution - I wouldn't dismiss the psychological impact vaccines will make either early in the new year in terms of giving people confidence to return.

But the idea of February vaccines is at best a pipe dream, pubs opening in December with restrictions will do probably 50-60% of their normal December business,which is still more than if they opened without them in February (which they won't)

hynesie08

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Ordinarily.

Extra staff for table service. Extra staff for cleaning. Extra staff to serve you chicken nuggets. Extra equipment possibly. Less than 50% capacity. Time limits. Early closing.

If I was a publican I honestly wouldn't bother.

If given the choice between December and February, it's not even a discussion.......

hmmm

hynesie08 wrote: »

But the idea of February vaccines is at best a pipe dream, pubs opening in December with restrictions will do probably 50-60% of their normal December business,which is still more than if they opened without them in February (which they won't)

We'll see our first batch of vaccines arrive probably early January, possibly even sooner. 2 shots are required for protection, about 3 weeks apart. The UK expect to be vaccinating people in December.

I'm not a publican so perhaps someone can tell me - is it viable for a pub to open for 3 or 4 weeks and then shut down?

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

hynesie08 wrote: »

If given the choice between December and February, it's not even a discussion.......

I do agree with you.

hmmm

hynesie08 wrote: »

If given the choice between December and February, it's not even a discussion.......

That's unlikely to be the choice. Open in December, big spike in cases countrywide, close again in a hurry. Lockdown for who knows how long until we get the numbers down.

Open in February, stay open.

aziz

In January/ feb will still be a case of “still not there” and after that it will be paddy’s day so “ hold off so we can enjoy Easter” and before you know it” Too risky if you want Christmas

Richard Hillman

PommieBast wrote: »

The thread Famous Dublin pubs that are no more is starting to get busy

So many pubs full of books worth if stories.

It is not a case of pubs WILL go out of business. It is pubs ARE going out of business. Never to return. Our culture and heritage being torn up by heathens.

Fitz*

https://twitter.com/MichealLehane/status/1332086063259668480?s=19

MelbourneMan

fin12 wrote: »

We are all going to be very bad boys n girls in December and will have enjoyed ourselves too much over December so have to punished in January with another lockdown. Like they haven’t even lifted the restrictions yet and they are literally salivating at the mouth thinking about the next lockdown. Very sick individuals at work here. I mean I nearly got sick when I heard that twat Covney go about Santa travelling and there’s people who’ve had their business closed nearly the entire year.

This read of the situation is unhelpful.

The NPHET recommendations, backed by a thorough analysis of the current position and projections, are, from a perspective of continued control of the virus, for very close to Level 5 restrictions for the duration through the holiday season. This is the unpleasant truth, however much people dislike the bad news. This is determined not by NPHET, 'agendas', or 'Tony'.
But by the virus. No lobbying, wishful thinking, self delusion, or desires for a Christmas as it might have been know, come what may, can sweep this away.

People must be informed of, and understand this situation.

There will be a very high price to pay for relaxations lower than a hybrid Level 4 / Level 5. The government is informed of this state, and will make its decisions in due course.

hynesie08

hmmm wrote: »

That's unlikely to be the choice. Open in December, big spike in cases countrywide, close again in a hurry. Lockdown for who knows how long until we get the numbers down.

Open in February, stay open.

Why will February be different to June 29th, July 20th, August 10th or September 21st for pint pubs?

fin12

MelbourneMan wrote: »

This read of the situation is unhelpful.

The NPHET recommendations, backed by a thorough analysis of the current position and projections, are, from a perspective of continued control of the virus, for very close to Level 5 restrictions for the duration through the holiday season. This is the unpleasant truth, however much people dislike the bad news. This is determined not by NPHET, 'agendas', or 'Tony'.
But by the virus. No lobbying, wishful thinking, self delusion, or desires for a Christmas as it might have been know, come what may, can sweep this away.

People must be informed of, and understand this situation.

There will be a very high price to pay for relaxations lower than a hybrid Level 4 / Level 5. The government is informed of this state, and will make its decisions in due course.

Ur read of the situation is pure ignorant and ur no doubt extremely brainwashed by ur master. Ur clearly just a mouthpiece. Ull get the Christmas u always had because ur clearly a hermit so happy days.

hmmm

hynesie08 wrote: »

Why will February be different to June 29th, July 20th, August 10th or September 21st for pint pubs?

With the rollout of vaccines there is more likelihood they can open and stay open, if we have numbers low to start with. It'll take a while for the vaccines to make an impact, but getting healthcare staff vaccinated will make a big difference.

If they open now we just repeat the mistake made last time.

doublejobbing 2

Fitz* wrote: »

https://twitter.com/MichealLehane/status/1332086063259668480?s=19

I seem to remember his sources saying EVERYTHING- nightclubs included, were to reopen in August the day before the announcement, and Leo intimitating as much to the cameras, only for Mehole to pull it back with hours to spare.

I wouldn't believe a word of it until I'm on my way out the door on the 7th.

ShineOn7

Fitz* wrote: »

https://twitter.com/MichealLehane/status/1332086063259668480?s=19

A decision that will kill people and hospitalise dozens*

There is no defending this

Ireland's centuries old and pathetic obsession with alcohol yet again coming to the fore


(*Source: at one stage I read that 20% of all of Cork's cases were traced back to restaurants and gastropubs)

Van.Bosch

ShineOn7 wrote: »

A decision that will kill people and hospitalise dozens*

There is no defending this

Ireland's centuries old and pathetic obsession with alcohol yet again coming to the fore


(*Source: at one stage I read that 20% of all of Cork's cases were traced back to restaurants and gastropubs)

That 20% may be the case but no way of knowing that they wouldn’t have met up in homes instead.

MrStuffins

Fitz* wrote: »

https://twitter.com/MichealLehane/status/1332086063259668480?s=19

YES!!!

Result!

doublejobbing 2

ShineOn7 wrote: »

A decision that will kill people and hospitalise dozens*

There is no defending this

Ireland's centuries old and pathetic obsession with alcohol yet again coming to the fore


(*Source: at one stage I read that 20% of all of Cork's cases were traced back to restaurants and gastropubs)

You could probably argue that people die every year from winter flu that was caught in a pub.

It still isnt entirely clear whether covid is more fatal than winter flu.

Some indicators appear to show that it isn't.

But hey, it got rid of Trump so mission accomplished it would seem.