Opening of "No-Food" pubs pushed out again

Irish Steve

AssetBacked2 wrote: »

Yeah, sure. I look forward to the data showing that pubs caused a big spike in hospitalisations (not cases obviously as they are totally meaningless).

Cases are not meaningless, as a rise in cases leads to a rise in hospitalisations, which they've documented very clearly since the outset. The hospitalisations might not be first hand, but that's the problem with a virulent virus, it doesn't care how it's passed from person to person, it just takes whatever hosts it's offered.

The evidence is out there if you look. Local (wet) pub that was "massaging" the rules in order to be open then hosted a big GAA celebration, and had to close a few days later after the landlord (and his family) and the staff all caught Covid, and a significant number of clusters locally were traced back to that pub, as well as other clusters further away from the town.

The LEA figures of cases per 100,000 went through the roof, and have only just this week come back down to something close to the national average, at one stage the county was in the top 3 of national cases.

Yes, I know the name of the pub, but I won't be naming it, regardless of how many people start braying for "proof".

When I look at too many of the attitudes being posted in this thread, and in other threads, I can see exactly why the decision was made to significantly restrict the number of places open, given the stark choices that NPHET put before the government, it's clear that there is a very real risk of another significant lock down not too long after Christmas, and there is a very good probability that inappropriate behaviour in pubs will be a contributory factor in that decision.

There is a (different) pub not too far away that myself and a few friends go to for drinks of an evening, and we can't do that this year, which is a pity, but from observations when we go, there are too many people that do lose the run of themselves as the evening goes on, it wasn't usually a problem pre Covid, but now, that same behaviour would be a huge risk factor, not just because of the loss of social separation, but because of all the other behavioural risks that go hand in hand with significant pints taken, and the nail in the coffin of such places would be the scrum on the bus that they laid on to get people home after a heavy session. That just can't happen now, unless they do 3 or 4 runs with the bus, which would be a time and cost issue to do.

Richard Hillman

morphy87 wrote: »

Unfortunately I don’t think you will ever get that data, as this government probably won’t open the pubs till they have a vacacine, I hope the vintners association doesn’t forget this the next election, if I was a publican and they came in canvassing,I run them out of the premises

Rural politicians use pubs a lot to canvass votes, be a man of the people etc. Any FF, FG or Greens should be barred for life from the pubs, and their families. They'll soon soften their beak when they and their families have been discommunicated from the community. The time to be vengeful is upon us.

ShyMets

The White Wolf wrote: »

Aaaaaand he's gone.....sums up things anyway on the anti pub side.

Personally I'm going to miss his Walter Mitty ramblings

saabsaab

Irish Steve wrote: »

Cases are not meaningless, as a rise in cases leads to a rise in hospitalisations, which they've documented very clearly since the outset. The hospitalisations might not be first hand, but that's the problem with a virulent virus, it doesn't care how it's passed from person to person, it just takes whatever hosts it's offered.

The evidence is out there if you look. Local (wet) pub that was "massaging" the rules in order to be open then hosted a big GAA celebration, and had to close a few days later after the landlord (and his family) and the staff all caught Covid, and a significant number of clusters locally were traced back to that pub, as well as other clusters further away from the town.

The LEA figures of cases per 100,000 went through the roof, and have only just this week come back down to something close to the national average, at one stage the county was in the top 3 of national cases.

Yes, I know the name of the pub, but I won't be naming it, regardless of how many people start braying for "proof".

When I look at too many of the attitudes being posted in this thread, and in other threads, I can see exactly why the decision was made to significantly restrict the number of places open, given the stark choices that NPHET put before the government, it's clear that there is a very real risk of another significant lock down not too long after Christmas, and there is a very good probability that inappropriate behaviour in pubs will be a contributory factor in that decision.

There is a (different) pub not too far away that myself and a few friends go to for drinks of an evening, and we can't do that this year, which is a pity, but from observations when we go, there are too many people that do lose the run of themselves as the evening goes on, it wasn't usually a problem pre Covid, but now, that same behaviour would be a huge risk factor, not just because of the loss of social separation, but because of all the other behavioural risks that go hand in hand with significant pints taken, and the nail in the coffin of such places would be the scrum on the bus that they laid on to get people home after a heavy session. That just can't happen now, unless they do 3 or 4 runs with the bus, which would be a time and cost issue to do.

You are right but many won't listen. As for pubs not opening again that was happenning anyway and many will go to the wall just a bit sooner that would have been the case. Some will be taken over by new business but that is the way of the market.

TomTomTim

saabsaab wrote: »

You are right but many won't listen. As for pubs not opening again that was happenning anyway and many will go to the wall just a bit sooner that would have been the case. Some will be taken over by new business but that is the way of the market.

What market? The market they've been banned from participating in because of governmental decisions, which they have no control over? Your framing implies that this is normal market function, when it isn't. They've been put on the shelf without any say, which is hardly how the market should function.

saabsaab

The 'Market' changes all the time Government decisions are part and parcel. Say when gaslight went out of business when electricity came in. Cinemas died when TV came etc etc. Free travel etc etc. Adapt or die it seems.

SB71

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

A bit of good news at last. Fair play to Michael Martin and the powers that be to tell Nphet to stick their penal anti alcohol and anti social laws where the sun don't shine. There was too much to lose for the government and the anger would have been palpable. It's not perfect (sad for the wet pubs) but I look forward to two or three days meeting friends around the city.

I cant stand Mehole or any of the government for me they are the single worst givernment in this hisitory of this country,it's been one disaster after another like ive never seen with any government before, even Bertie and Biffos government werent in the same league as these, Mehole knew full well if they went along with NPHET again especially at Xmas this would be the beginnong of the end for them, a populist move nothing else to try and appease to what little support they have left in the public.

It just beggars belief that yet again pubs not serving food have been victimised , any pubs which go under the government will be directly responsible.

SB71

ShyMets wrote: »

Personally I'm going to miss his Walter Mitty ramblings

is this Melbourne man your talking about?

Can you believe some moderator sent me a private message warning me because i referred to as being a Walter Mitty type, political correctness alive and well on here it would appear i told him to have a day off :rolleyes:

SB71

MelbourneMan wrote: »

While your turn of phrase is a little jarring, a turn of events, which for those willing to look beyond a shoot-the-messenger type response, avoid personal jibes (although I noted many were unable to comply with the maxim I have seen mention here of 'attack the post, not the poster') and instead see what was well flagged for many weeks :

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.phpp=114969597&postcount=2677
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?=114967679&postcount=2631
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?=115127618&postcount=9124
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?=115201671&postcount=6101
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?=115274223&postcount=1747

The outcome here is that everyone, in a sense is correct. NPHET is of course correct to recommend from a public health position that pubs openings be avoided. And the government correct to, on consideration of a wider range of criteria, allow for the limited openings. On their side, committing the country to a third wave in February is a courageous decision, not easily taken, and must be respected. I would have tended to a stronger curtailment of openings, but do understand the merit in the formula presented.

And now that the short term view has been published, I think everyone must respect the liberties they have been given. It is still encouraged that people restrict their social contacts as far as possible.

While permitted, patronising gastropubs (or take away from pubs - an activity that strikes me as perverse really, and only alluring to those wanting to make a point) is still to be discouraged.

We are all responsible for our own actions, the influence they will have on transmission of the virus over the coming months, and depth of restriction that will be reimposed in January. I am deeply concerned.

Please all consider this, take care of each other, and Happy Christmas to all.

jesus wept :rolleyes::D:D

hynesie08

saabsaab wrote: »

The 'Market' changes all the time Government decisions are part and parcel. Say when gaslight went out of business when electricity came in. Cinemas died when TV came etc etc. Free travel etc etc. Adapt or die it seems.

The "market" hasn't changed, it's been shut down. Bit of a difference.

So what has replaced pubs? Have we suddenly a nation of late night coffee shops and jazz clubs?

What's replaced pubs is she beens, how does a pub adapt to being a shebeen......

John O.Groats

SB71 wrote: »

I cant stand Mehole or any of the government for me they are the single worst givernment in this hisitory of this country,it's been one disaster after another like ive never seen with any government before, even Bertie and Biffos government werent in the same league as these, Mehole knew full well if they went along with NPHET again especially at Xmas this would be the beginnong of the end for them, a populist move nothing else to try and appease to what little support they have left in the public.

It just beggars belief that yet again pubs not serving food have been victimised , any pubs which go under the government will be directly responsible.

Good man. Mary Lou will be proud of you for following the anti govenment ranting script.

SB71

John O.Groats wrote: »

Good man. Mary Lou will be proud of you for following the anti govenment ranting script.

well John im sure you can enlighten us with a list of their notable achievements that have made us all proud of this wonderful caring government since they took office in the summer.

saabsaab

hynesie08 wrote: »

The "market" hasn't changed, it's been shut down. Bit of a difference.

So what has replaced pubs? Have we suddenly a nation of late night coffee shops and jazz clubs?

What's replaced pubs is she beens, how does a pub adapt to being a shebeen......

I think it is obvious that it has changed even before Covid. How they adapt or don't is up to them. Might not be liked by many or even 'fair' but it is what it is.

fin12

P

John O.Groats wrote: »

Good man. Mary Lou will be proud of you for following the anti govenment ranting script.

Sorry sinn Finn are no better, I hate mehole / varakar and the government but don’t support sinn Finn either, all I can remember sinn finn wanting to do is put the pup up to €500 a week, they only care about dole heads. Never getting a vote of me again.

SB71

fin12 wrote: »

P

Sorry sinn Finn are no better, I hate mehole / varakar and the government but don’t support sinn Finn either, all I can remember sinn finn wanting to do is put the pup up to €500 a week, they only care about dole heads. Never getting a vote of me again.

i wouldnt be a huge fan either, but they deserve a chance, they surely cannot be in the same league as FFG when it comes to destroying the country.

fin12

SB71 wrote: »

i wouldnt be a huge fan either, but they deserve a chance, they surely cannot be in the same league as FFG when it comes to destroying the country.

I wouldn’t have much hope in them and I was a supporter of them for many a year. That ship has sailed now for me.

Chalk McHugh

SB71 wrote: »

I cant stand Mehole or any of the government for me they are the single worst givernment in this hisitory of this country,it's been one disaster after another like ive never seen with any government before, even Bertie and Biffos government werent in the same league as these, Mehole knew full well if they went along with NPHET again especially at Xmas this would be the beginnong of the end for them, a populist move nothing else to try and appease to what little support they have left in the public.

It just beggars belief that yet again pubs not serving food have been victimised , any pubs which go under the government will be directly responsible.

That's all very true but it's better than nothing opening as was rumoured on Thursday and at least we'll have a few good days out.

dominatinMC

saabsaab wrote: »

The 'Market' changes all the time Government decisions are part and parcel. Say when gaslight went out of business when electricity came in. Cinemas died when TV came etc etc. Free travel etc etc. Adapt or die it seems.

Jesus man, I hope you're not an economist or work in finance as you seem to have no idea of "the market". The market has not changed but is put in a form of stasis by a global pandemic and government-enforced regulations. The demand is still there, otherwise there would not be such a clamour to reopen pubs, this thread wouldn't exist and we would not be having this conversation.
As for your example of cinemas dieing, last time I looked there was plenty of them in existence and TV has been ubiquitous for decades now..

SB71

SB71 wrote: »

jesus wept :rolleyes::D:D

MM is gone, yet quickly forgotten. A similar fate will befall the other MM unless he grows a spine, rural Ireland has been betrayed yet again. The traditional publicans are in for a dire Christmas, lest we forget in our rush to embrace the artifice that is the "gastro" pub.

the rock29

Fin 12 remark about people on the the pup payment people don't want to be on the the payment it's no fault of there own the government closed the pubs etc so what are they to do for a income when there is no work out there because of the government closing every thing wake up mate

saabsaab

dominatinMC wrote: »

Jesus man, I hope you're not an economist or work in finance as you seem to have no idea of "the market". The market has not changed but is put in a form of stasis by a global pandemic and government-enforced regulations. The demand is still there, otherwise there would not be such a clamour to reopen pubs, this thread wouldn't exist and we would not be having this conversation.
As for your example of cinemas dieing, last time I looked there was plenty of them in existence and TV has been ubiquitous for decades now..

You have a funny idea of the 'market', do you work in those areas? It isn't ever static. Cinemas did die in their hundreds with the advent of TV. They have made a comeback by adapting (more luxury, bigger multi screens, which is my point.

0gac3yjefb5sv7

So if it's two metres indoors, there is still good rule but no time limit? What about 2 metres outdoors?

SB71

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

That's all very true but it's better than nothing opening as was rumoured on Thursday and at least we'll have a few good days out.

indeed my friend cant wait for a rake of pints

AssetBacked2

Irish Steve wrote: »

Cases are not meaningless, as a rise in cases leads to a rise in hospitalisations, which they've documented very clearly since the outset. The hospitalisations might not be first hand, but that's the problem with a virulent virus, it doesn't care how it's passed from person to person, it just takes whatever hosts it's offered.

The evidence is out there if you look. Local (wet) pub that was "massaging" the rules in order to be open then hosted a big GAA celebration, and had to close a few days later after the landlord (and his family) and the staff all caught Covid, and a significant number of clusters locally were traced back to that pub, as well as other clusters further away from the town.

The LEA figures of cases per 100,000 went through the roof, and have only just this week come back down to something close to the national average, at one stage the county was in the top 3 of national cases.

Yes, I know the name of the pub, but I won't be naming it, regardless of how many people start braying for "proof".

When I look at too many of the attitudes being posted in this thread, and in other threads, I can see exactly why the decision was made to significantly restrict the number of places open, given the stark choices that NPHET put before the government, it's clear that there is a very real risk of another significant lock down not too long after Christmas, and there is a very good probability that inappropriate behaviour in pubs will be a contributory factor in that decision.

There is a (different) pub not too far away that myself and a few friends go to for drinks of an evening, and we can't do that this year, which is a pity, but from observations when we go, there are too many people that do lose the run of themselves as the evening goes on, it wasn't usually a problem pre Covid, but now, that same behaviour would be a huge risk factor, not just because of the loss of social separation, but because of all the other behavioural risks that go hand in hand with significant pints taken, and the nail in the coffin of such places would be the scrum on the bus that they laid on to get people home after a heavy session. That just can't happen now, unless they do 3 or 4 runs with the bus, which would be a time and cost issue to do.

Cases are totally meaningless when people have no symptoms. So it is not a good barometer to say "oh look, we reopened places and cases went up". On the leading to hospitalisations point, there is a correlation between increased cases and hospitalisations. But it is not correct to state that cases lead to hospitalisations. We have actually been seeing over the last while that hospitalisations are leading to cases rather than the other way around and that is just one reason case numbers are meaningless.

And a GAA celebration is not solid data that pubs, with proper guidance, cause issues with spreading covid. The actual data is non-existent.

In general, many people are obsessed with keeping pubs closed for some reason, not realising that people who love a good night out have been having house parties and still going on tinder dates all along. Those calling for pub closures in the absence of hard data are just anti-alcohol zealots who need to live and let live, they are given far too much air time.

SB71

Deleted User wrote: »

MM is gone, yet quickly forgotten. A similar fate will befall the other MM unless he grows a spine, rural Ireland has been betrayed yet again. The traditional publicans are in for a dire Christmas, lest we forget in our rush to embrace the artifice that is the "gastro" pub.

Was that Melbourne Man character banned or something?

Your definitely right about the other MM as well.

fin12

the rock29 wrote: »

Fin 12 remark about people on the the pup payment people don't want to be on the the payment it's no fault of there own the government closed the pubs etc so what are they to do for a income when there is no work out there because of the government closing every thing wake up mate

Yes but increasing it to €500 a week won’t help the economy, those businesses should be open then they wouldn’t need to be on it. That’s the point. Open the businesses not ask to increase payment.

Mrs OBumble

So our latest regs say that a pub can only operate as a restaurant if it has an on-site, indoor, kitchen.

But there are lots of cafes, and even some restaurants, which don't have their kitchen on-site: instead food is prepared in a central dark kitchen, and then transported to storage cabinets at individual branches. Some of them have microwaves / grill-toasters, some just serve cold.

Why is it ok for a cafe to serve food this way, but not a pub?

Dr golden 2

This is all to do with holohops anti pub culture agenda

hynesie08

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

So our latest regs say that a pub can only operate as a restaurant if it has an on-site, indoor, kitchen.

But there are lots of cafes, and even some restaurants, which don't have their kitchen on-site: instead food is prepared in a central dark kitchen, and then transported to storage cabinets at individual branches. Some of them have microwaves / grill-toasters, some just serve cold.

Why is it ok for a cafe to serve food this way, but not a pub?

My 2 main questions would be.
1. Can these Cafes serve alcohol?
2. What sort of regulations/certification do these Cafes have RE:storage and handling......

My gut feeling is that the two aren't comparable, but I'll wait till I have some more information.....

L1011

hynesie08 wrote: »

My 2 main questions would be.
1. Can these Cafes serve alcohol?
2. What sort of regulations/certification do these Cafes have RE:storage and handling......

My gut feeling is that the two aren't comparable, but I'll wait till I have some more information.....

The number of cafes with wine licences + restaurant certs that let them sell wine and beer is actually huge. The little pitta place near my office has them!

There is a significant neoprohibitionist streak to FG of late - banning loyalty points and vouchers on alcohol, requiring supermarkets to barricade off their off licences, trying even harder to require Big Dinners with drink etc.

Smee_Again

Alcohol is the problem, so the rule re: kitchens is just an excuse to keep wet shut.

bikeman1

Because according to our “experts” Covid is really smart and knows that in certain places if you sit down and eat a pizza with a pint of beer you are in grave danger but if you go to another place and they don’t serve beer then you’ll be grand. It has a tendency to skip those places.

It’s really clever and hovers around wondering if you are going to have a substantial meal. If you just have a cheese toastie you’re a gonner with your pint, you need to up it to a club sandwich with a plate of chips and your safe!

SouthWesterly

bikeman1 wrote: »

Because according to our “experts” Covid is really smart and knows that in certain places if you sit down and eat a pizza with a pint of beer you are in grave danger but if you go to another place and they don’t serve beer then you’ll be grand. It has a tendency to skip those places.

It’s really clever and hovers around wondering if you are going to have a substantial meal. If you just have a cheese toastie you’re a gonner with your pint, you need to up it to a club sandwich with a plate of chips and your safe!

It also knows the data of the week.

El_Duderino 09

hynesie08 wrote: »

My 2 main questions would be.
1. Can these Cafes serve alcohol?
2. What sort of regulations/certification do these Cafes have RE:storage and handling......

My gut feeling is that the two aren't comparable, but I'll wait till I have some more information.....

No, no, no. You don’t need to wait for more information, that’s the last thing you need to do. You need to make a conspiracy claim about how everyone is put to get the pubs. Then you need to say anyone who doesn’t support pubs reopening right now is anti-pub, anti-drink and anti-craic.

Haven’t you been on a thread about pubs since covid?

MrStuffins

fin12 wrote: »

I hate mehole / varakar and the government but don’t support sinn Finn

.......what?

crazy 88

It's a measure to make it harder/more awkward for people to go to the pub. The fact is Irish people love the pub and if they opened them all there'd be a massive increase in movement of people and cases. Cafés opening with no rules would have nowhere near the same impact.

growleaves

MrStuffins wrote: »

.......what?

He hates M. Martin, Leo Varadkar and the Government but, in spite of that, is not a Sinn Féin supporter.

Necro

Mod:

Threads merged

hynesie08

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

No, no, no. You don’t need to wait for more information, that’s the last thing you need to do. You need to make a conspiracy claim about how everyone is put to get the pubs. Then you need to say anyone who doesn’t support pubs reopening right now is anti-pub, anti-drink and anti-craic.

Haven’t you been on a thread about pubs since covid?

Fair point.......

ThewhiteJesus

Can’t wait to have a pint and a couple of bets back in the bar, and pretend to order food !!

completedit

Dublin city is buzzing tonight. The revolt has begun. LET THEM DRINK BEER. We want our lives back. What are we waiting for realistically? Be smart, act responsibly during the week; mask up in supermarkets, wash hands etc. Can do no harm while we wait for the vaccine placebo to take effect, but if you want to go out, mingle and socialize, JUST DO IT

El_Duderino 09

completedit wrote: »

Dublin city is buzzing tonight. The revolt has begun. LET THEM DRINK BEER. We want our lives back. What are we waiting for realistically? Be smart, act responsibly during the week; mask up in supermarkets, wash hands etc. Can do no harm while we wait for the vaccine placebo to take effect, but if you want to go out, mingle and socialize, JUST DO IT

Vaccine placebo. Yikes.

completedit

completedit wrote: »

Dublin city is buzzing tonight. The revolt has begun. LET THEM DRINK BEER. We want our lives back. What are we waiting for realistically? Be smart, act responsibly during the week; mask up in supermarkets, wash hands etc. Can do no harm while we wait for the vaccine placebo to take effect, but if you want to go out, mingle and socialize, JUST DO IT

Nah, you're grand, thanks. Some of us actually do consider other people in our families. Mind-bending for you to try and comprehend, I'm sure.

completedit

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Vaccine placebo. Yikes.

For the next month this is the mindset of 80 per cent of this country.

Poorside

completedit wrote: »

Dublin city is buzzing tonight. The revolt has begun. LET THEM DRINK BEER. We want our lives back. What are we waiting for realistically? Be smart, act responsibly during the week; mask up in supermarkets, wash hands etc. Can do no harm while we wait for the vaccine placebo to take effect, but if you want to go out, mingle and socialize, JUST DO IT

And how exactly are you expecting people to get into the shut pubs?

Poorside

completedit wrote: »

For the next month this is the mindset of 80 per cent of this country.

So you can see into the future and read everyone's mind, nevermind my previous question, just mindmail me the winning euro lotto numbers.

GT89

New scientific research shows the difference having a meal makes on the virus versus just having a pint. Truly intringing stuff

MrStuffins

GT89 wrote: »

New scientific research shows the difference having a meal makes on the virus versus just having a pint. Truly intringing stuff

I don't think that's a real photo.

GT89

GT89 wrote: »

New scientific research shows the difference having a meal makes on the virus versus just having a pint. Truly intringing stuff

Incredible. Food magically repels Covid. I expect Tony Holohan and his dour band of geniuses at NPHET are a shoe-in for the Nobel Prize for Science 2021.

hynesie08

GT89 wrote: »

New scientific research shows the difference having a meal makes on the virus versus just having a pint. Truly intringing stuff

So, should I wait for my food to arrive before I get a pint? Does covid hate aperitifs?