Opening of "No-Food" pubs pushed out again

Gervais08

MrStuffins wrote: »

I keep hearing this argument about pubs being the only lifeline for those who need to get out and socialise.

That's absolute bullsh*t! Just because it's your preferred method of socialising, doesn't mean it's, in any universe, the only way people can socialise.

Yes we get it, you hate pubs. You have a Walton like extended family that play parlour games weekly and you have every social contact you could ever need.

The world is not you though and there are many many more people out there especially in more rural areas for whom a pub is a lifeline.

I am so sick of seeing these NPHET anti pub fanboys on here, they couldn’t give two ****es for the mental health of the country and aren’t even subtle about their contempt for people who they see as beneath them.

When in doubt break the mental health out. Greatest excuse in the world now.

Gervais08

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

When in doubt break the mental health out. Greatest excuse in the world now.

Says someone who has clearly never been alone for months at a time and needing simple human contact.

Padre_Pio

Gervais08 wrote: »

Says someone who has clearly never been alone for months at a time and needing simple human contact.

Is there anyone in the country who's been alone for months on end??

I went for a wander down the beach a few weeks back. There was about a six cars with elderly people in them, windows down, chatting to the person in the car next to them.

stephenjmcd

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

When in doubt break the mental health out. Greatest excuse in the world now.

So people who have been lonely throughout and are now suffering mental health issues are breaking out an excuse ??

I know people who are a shell of what they were this time last year, now this is nothing to do with pubs but due to covid and the restrictions. They've reached out to some friends and GPs, GPs have referred them on but thr back log in mental health services in Ireland is unbelievable, could be 2 years before they see someone.

Absolutely nothing to do with pubs or alcohol but to say greatest excuse in the world is disingenuous and cynical. Disgusting comment to people who've mental health issues and those of us who are concerned about people we know who've these issues.

stephenjmcd

stephenjmcd wrote: »

So people who have been lonely throughout and are now suffering mental health issues are breaking out an excuse ??

I know people who are a shell of what they were this time last year, now this is nothing to do with pubs but due to covid and the restrictions. They've reached out to some friends and GPs, GPs have referred them on but thr back log in mental health services in Ireland is unbelievable, could be 2 years before they see someone.

Absolutely nothing to do with pubs or alcohol but to say greatest excuse in the world is disingenuous and cynical. Disgusting comment to people who've mental health issues and those of us who are concerned about people we know who've these issues.

The disgusting thing is people using it for every single little thing and belittling the few who have real issues.

If someone wants to go for a pint then just say it. Don’t dress it up as something it’s not because it’s a handy fashionable statement now.

stephenjmcd

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

The disgusting thing is people using it for every single little thing and belittling the few who have real issues.

If someone wants to go for a pint then just say it. Don’t dress it up as something it’s not because it’s a handy fashionable statement now.

I've just said its nothing to do with pubs or pints from my point of view. Your original comment came across that anyone who cited mental health issues was using the greatest excuse of all time, people do have actual issues that need to be addressed. No wonder this country still has a stigma around mental health

Anyway completely off topic for this thread

Thats me

MrStuffins wrote: »

Just because it's your preferred method of socialising, doesn't mean it's, in any universe, the only way people can socialise.

Gervais08 wrote: »

Yes we get it, you hate pubs. You .... you ....

The pub-addicted people on the Boards are so inadequate

MrStuffins

Gervais08 wrote: »

Yes we get it, you hate pubs.

"Pubs are the only place in the whole country where people can socialise"

- "That's not quite true. There are many other ways to socialise"

"You just hate pubs!"

If this is the extent of your argument when someone disagrees with you, you haven't got much ammunition.

This paranoid, anti-pub conspiracy stuff is worn out!

MrStuffins

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

The disgusting thing is people using it for every single little thing and belittling the few who have real issues.

This.

It really shows the self-centred mentality of some people when they try to hijack the genuine problems of people to use them as a weapon to push their own agenda.

There are people suffering horrible issues with their mental health out there. It's disgusting to hijack this just because you want to have a few pints (which you can do next week by the way)

PommieBast

SB71 wrote: »

Can people please not keep referring to pubs as "wet pubs" whoever came up with that word along with the equally as cringe "staycation" deserves to be ridiculed, awful.

I hate the term as well but nomenclature is a losing battle

Irish Steve

Gervais08 wrote: »

Yes we get it, you hate pubs. You have a Walton like extended family that play parlour games weekly and you have every social contact you could ever need.

The world is not you though and there are many many more people out there especially in more rural areas for whom a pub is a lifeline.

I am so sick of seeing these NPHET anti pub fanboys on here, they couldn’t give two ****es for the mental health of the country and aren’t even subtle about their contempt for people who they see as beneath them.

Pot, kettle, black.

You have made your position very clear also, and are as unmoving and inflexible as you accuse others of being.

Irish society has for a long time unfortunately been going down a dangerous road that has ended up become a problem as a result of this pandemic. The fact that the pub has become so fundamentally embedded into the core social structure of the country is not something that we should be proud of, and the pub has become a substitute for many aspects of life that should have been encouraged to be more diverse.

Part of that is the change in the role of the church in the community, part of it is the massive escalation of costs (things like insurance) of running voluntary organisations, which has resulted in closures, and there has been a reduction in the number of people prepared to volunteer for all manner of clubs, societies and the like, so they are no longer operating.

I can assure you, I am not a NPHET anti pub fanboy, far from it, I enjoy a session in the pub with friends when it's appropriate, and I don't have a massive social circle where we play parlour games until all hours, so I don't fit your stereotype of the supposed opposition. I also recognise that there are some serious issues around pub culture that are influencing the thoughts of NPHET, bluntly, anyone that thinks there is not a problem with alcohol in this country is being delusional.

I see a country that is under threat, along with just about every other country in the world, and I see a group of people who are under massive pressure to come up with ways to manage a virus that has come out of nowhere with very little warning and even less information on how to defeat it. They don't have centuries of historic data on which to base their conclusions, they are effectively only one page ahead of us on the book of how to manage this pandemic, and because of that, there will be times when they don't know, and don't have the answers, so they have to base their guidance on the limited information they have, and the experience they do have in similar areas, and there will be times when they will get it wrong, not with malice, but because of a total lack of clear information on which to base their conclusions.

As for the politicians that then make decisions based on the guidance they are getting, the harsh reality is that they are even more clueless, and many of them have never worked in the "real" economy, so expecting them to come up with good plans to deal with a complex and fast moving situation is unfortunately an impossible ask, we've seen way too many examples over the last 30 years of massive incompetence and worse.

We have a health service that is at best disfunctional, and that's down to a management structure that is just not fit for purpose, and an ongoing lack of political will to face down some of the vested interests that have made it so, and that's only one aspect of the issues we still face and will have to deal with going forward, there is a whole corrupt golden circle that is also causing massive damage at the core of Irish Society

So, what is the solution. For the next few months, we have to manage the virus by limiting its ability to spread across the community, and that requires a continued vigilance to limit social contacts across the entire community. Until there is a viable vaccine available, that is the ONLY solution.

That's hard, for all sorts of reasons, and the pain of that action is not evenly spread across the generations, and some will be more vulnerable as a result, but the alternatives are even less acceptable.

After that, who knows. It would be nice to think that there will be a radical rethink about many aspects of life that have been shown to be not working, but I'm not going to hold my breath, people have very short memories, and are all too easily swayed by extravagent promises made by politicians who are more concerned to get re elected (and protect their gold plated pension) than to be making real change that will be good for the country.

Short term, forget the wet pubs, large crowds at places like Croke Park, music concerts, theatre, events at places like the 3 arena, skiing holidays, and many similar sorts of events, simply because the human misery of covid infections as a result of such events make them unacceptable. It means a lot of mental pain and stress for many people across all ages, but there is no real alternative at the moment.

As a society, we need, urgently, to look at ourselves very closely, and decide if our present social structure is viable long term, the total dependence on Pub culture in some parts of the country is bad, and needs to be addressed, but now is not the time to try and change that, however painful that might be.

irish_goat

Are hotel bars allowed to open next week for residents?

The White Wolf

Gervais08 wrote: »

The world is not you though and there are many many more people out there especially in more rural areas for whom a pub is a lifeline.

Well that's it, people can complain about pub culture all they want but people won't change how they live their life, nor should they have to, because others demand it.

I do wonder how far these people would be willing to go to enforce their will. I know a bloke from work who had a party over the weekend, should his door be kicked down and the place get smashed up (with a few heads cracked for good measure)?

aziz

It’s like there are other ways to keep fit/exercise,but the amount of bitching about the gyms being closed

Chalk McHugh

irish_goat wrote: »

Are hotel bars allowed to open next week for residents?

Good question..I rang about 10 hotels in Dublin yesterday tryng to find out. First question i asked was when are they open to the general public is it next Tuesday or Friday? Most said Tuesday. Then i asked if i booked for Tue would the bar be open all day for residents? Most of the receptionists didn't know and said ring back tomorrow.

0gac3yjefb5sv7

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

Good question..I rang about 10 hotels in Dublin yesterday tryng to find out. First question i asked was when are they open to the general public is it next Tuesday or Friday? Most said Tuesday. Then i asked if i booked for Tue would the bar be open all day for residents? Most of the receptionists didn't know and said ring back tomorrow.

I presume so? Why wouldn't they be open.

Chalk McHugh

MattS1 wrote: »

I presume so? Why wouldn't they be open.

Because pubs and restaurants cannot open and sell drink until Friday i wasn't sure if hotel bars would open on Tuesday to residants. And none of the receptionists could clarify it either. I'll have a walk round town tomorrow and drop in to a few and confirm it.

I see sheep

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

Because pubs and restaurants cannot open and sell drink until Friday i wasn't sure if hotel bars would open on Tuesday to residants. And none of the receptionists could clarify it either. I'll have a walk round town tomorrow and drop in to a few and confirm it.

Hotel restaurants will be open

Chalk McHugh

I see sheep wrote: »

Hotel restaurants will be open

It's not the restaurants im interested in. I want to know if you can drink unimpeded all day if you wish in the hotel bar if you are a residant in a hotel on Tueday.

MrStuffins

The White Wolf wrote: »

I do wonder how far these people would be willing to go to enforce their will. I know a bloke from work who had a party over the weekend, should his door be kicked down and the place get smashed up (with a few heads cracked for good measure)?

No, but it's bizarre that when you want the pubs open and you're pointing fingers, you point them everywhere but the private houses who are having parties and contributing to spreading the virus.

It sounds like a problem with authority you have, rather than an actual will to see the pubs open. For, if you did want the pubs to be open, you wouldn't be celebrating the spread of the virus which is keeping them closed

kayjay123

Does the 11:30 limit still apply to Gastropubs?

CinemaGuy45

kayjay123 wrote: »

Does the 11:30 limit still apply to Gastropubs?

No idea but it makes perfect that Covid bug is cunning it knows it can strike at 11.31 and it hates those scum who did not pay at least €9 for their rotten ham and cheese.:pac:

Zebra3

aziz wrote: »

It’s like there are other ways to keep fit/exercise,but the amount of bitching about the gyms being closed

Yes, there are many ways to keep fit.

I run so, so gyms being closed doesn't hinder me.

But for those who like to do weights or swimming, it's a huge loss to them and of course gyms being closed impacts on the staff and businesses.

For a lot of people, they are losing the thing they are good at, one of the things that they feel defines them.

opinionated3

Irish Steve wrote: »

Pot, kettle, black.

You have made your position very clear also, and are as unmoving and inflexible as you accuse others of being.

Irish society has for a long time unfortunately been going down a dangerous road that has ended up become a problem as a result of this pandemic. The fact that the pub has become so fundamentally embedded into the core social structure of the country is not something that we should be proud of, and the pub has become a substitute for many aspects of life that should have been encouraged to be more diverse.

Part of that is the change in the role of the church in the community, part of it is the massive escalation of costs (things like insurance) of running voluntary organisations, which has resulted in closures, and there has been a reduction in the number of people prepared to volunteer for all manner of clubs, societies and the like, so they are no longer operating.

I can assure you, I am not a NPHET anti pub fanboy, far from it, I enjoy a session in the pub with friends when it's appropriate, and I don't have a massive social circle where we play parlour games until all hours, so I don't fit your stereotype of the supposed opposition. I also recognise that there are some serious issues around pub culture that are influencing the thoughts of NPHET, bluntly, anyone that thinks there is not a problem with alcohol in this country is being delusional.

I see a country that is under threat, along with just about every other country in the world, and I see a group of people who are under massive pressure to come up with ways to manage a virus that has come out of nowhere with very little warning and even less information on how to defeat it. They don't have centuries of historic data on which to base their conclusions, they are effectively only one page ahead of us on the book of how to manage this pandemic, and because of that, there will be times when they don't know, and don't have the answers, so they have to base their guidance on the limited information they have, and the experience they do have in similar areas, and there will be times when they will get it wrong, not with malice, but because of a total lack of clear information on which to base their conclusions.

As for the politicians that then make decisions based on the guidance they are getting, the harsh reality is that they are even more clueless, and many of them have never worked in the "real" economy, so expecting them to come up with good plans to deal with a complex and fast moving situation is unfortunately an impossible ask, we've seen way too many examples over the last 30 years of massive incompetence and worse.

We have a health service that is at best disfunctional, and that's down to a management structure that is just not fit for purpose, and an ongoing lack of political will to face down some of the vested interests that have made it so, and that's only one aspect of the issues we still face and will have to deal with going forward, there is a whole corrupt golden circle that is also causing massive damage at the core of Irish Society

So, what is the solution. For the next few months, we have to manage the virus by limiting its ability to spread across the community, and that requires a continued vigilance to limit social contacts across the entire community. Until there is a viable vaccine available, that is the ONLY solution.

That's hard, for all sorts of reasons, and the pain of that action is not evenly spread across the generations, and some will be more vulnerable as a result, but the alternatives are even less acceptable.

After that, who knows. It would be nice to think that there will be a radical rethink about many aspects of life that have been shown to be not working, but I'm not going to hold my breath, people have very short memories, and are all too easily swayed by extravagent promises made by politicians who are more concerned to get re elected (and protect their gold plated pension) than to be making real change that will be good for the country.

Short term, forget the wet pubs, large crowds at places like Croke Park, music concerts, theatre, events at places like the 3 arena, skiing holidays, and many similar sorts of events, simply because the human misery of covid infections as a result of such events make them unacceptable. It means a lot of mental pain and stress for many people across all ages, but there is no real alternative at the moment.

As a society, we need, urgently, to look at ourselves very closely, and decide if our present social structure is viable long term, the total dependence on Pub culture in some parts of the country is bad, and needs to be addressed, but now is not the time to try and change that, however painful that might be.

Give it a rest. Your as depressing as holohan at this stage.

stephenjmcd

kayjay123 wrote: »

Does the 11:30 limit still apply to Gastropubs?

Nobody seems to know what time close is at.

Previously it was 11.30 but there's been no indication given yet as to what it is now. Would assume its still the same

Gervais08

opinionated3 wrote: »

Give it a rest. Your as depressing as holohan at this stage.

I’m not 100% sure they’re not “related”....!!

Gervais08

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Nobody seems to know what time close is at.

Previously it was 11.30 but there's been no indication given yet as to what it is now. Would assume its still the same

Two of my locals - who operated with 15 outside till last lockdown - are releasing their plans tomorrow. I imagine most will do likewise, they were both 10pm last time.

Fr_Dougal

Apparently a group of Irish scientists are analysing the material that is used to make schools. They hope that at some point in the near future they can replicate it and use it to build pubs.

LuasSimon

Be good fun trying to social distance pubs in limerick and Waterford when the hurling final is on sunday week .
Should be ok for Dublin’s football win seen as it’s a daily occurrence or feels like it at this stage

saabsaab

It's only the cities that have the problem really. In the smaller towns and villages people can have a quiet pint outside well distanced. That and some pubs open to selected regulars by the back door.

Stormyteacup

Gervais08 wrote: »

Two of my locals - who operated with 15 outside till last lockdown - are releasing their plans tomorrow. I imagine most will do likewise, they were both 10pm last time.

I don’t think the guidelines or ‘extra restrictions’ have even been clarified to hospitality yet afaik. As if it wasn’t difficult enough for them, but I gather most are planning on 6 max per table, 1hr 45 mins if spacing less than 2 metres and all customers off the premises at 11.30 but I guess has yet to be formalised between government and regulatory bodies..

vafankillar

here's a question. will the many 'wet pubs' currently doing take away pints now be allowed let those customers use their bathroom facilities? was one of the biggest obstacles with the whole take away thing, almost more so than the weather since almost no public toiles open in dublin other than the one beside stephens green and the one at wolftone square.

Thats me

vafankillar wrote: »

here's a question. will the many 'wet pubs' currently doing take away pints now be allowed let those customers use their bathroom facilities?

The bigger problem will be new requirement to have masks worn at all times in public places and busy places outside. No visors allowed. I think many pub customers will find it difficult to drink a beer having mask properly worn during their antisocial socialisation.

stephenjmcd

Thats me wrote: »

The bigger problem will be new requirement to have masks worn at all times in public places and busy places outside. No visors allowed. I think many pub customers will find it difficult to drink a beer having mask properly worn during their antisocial socialisation.

What requirement ? Theres a whole thread on masks by the way but masks outdoors is not a requirement.

Thats me

stephenjmcd wrote: »

What requirement ? Theres a whole thread on masks by the way but masks outdoors is not a requirement.

New recommendations: https://assets.gov.ie/99265/1c5ba10e-465d-4494-b7fb-f4c50bbb96fc.pdf

stargazer 68

Thats me wrote: »

New recommendations: https://assets.gov.ie/99265/1c5ba10e-465d-4494-b7fb-f4c50bbb96fc.pdf

But not a requirement as stated above.

stephenjmcd

Thats me wrote: »

New recommendations: https://assets.gov.ie/99265/1c5ba10e-465d-4494-b7fb-f4c50bbb96fc.pdf

Yup I know.

A recommendation is not a requirement and not covered in the legislation.

Up to each person if they want to wear a mask outdoors.

Anyway full thread on masks

vafankillar

Thats me wrote: »

New recommendations: https://assets.gov.ie/99265/1c5ba10e-465d-4494-b7fb-f4c50bbb96fc.pdf

it's clear that part of the governments plan has been to recommend / advise suff in the hopes people will assume it's obligatory lol.

I love how you even said recommendation yourself

DeanAustin

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Terribly sorry if I hurt your delicate feelings. Who are you exactly? NPHET have been extraordinarily patronising and dismissive of traditional publicans who bent over backwards at great expense to be accommodating. All to no avail, staring down a bleak December losing valuable business. Many of whom won't reopen in 2021. Due in no small part to an utterly deluded and irrational train of thought that an arbitrary €9 food charge is the knife edge between Covid spiralling out of control. Now I don't have to justify my actions on this thread to you, if you're unable to accept that then there's nothing else I can do for you. Sorry for your pedantic troubles.

Touchy. I’m someone on a message board expressing an opinion. Which is fairly normal. You’re trying to put your argument across as the only sensible one by undermining the opposing view with wilful ignorance.

The €9 is not the knife edge. No one thinks food repels Covid. The government and NPHET believe that if people are eating a decent meal with food, they are less likely to get hammered and lower their inhibitions which would lead, inevitably, to close contact. The €9 comes from some decades old legislation that defines a decent meal I believe.

You can argue that such a move is not effective. Fair enough. But there is clear logic there. From personal experience, I think it has an impact. It’s not the whole answer or a game changer but, to quote Tesco, every little helps.

Thats me

vafankillar wrote: »

it's clear that part of the governments plan has been to recommend / advise suff in the hopes people will assume it's obligatory lol.

I love how you even said recommendation yourself

This is NPHET recommendations, what will be enforced by government we will see tomorrow.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Thats me wrote: »

This is NPHET recommendations, what will be enforced by government we will see tomorrow.

They can f off if they think they can push masks on people outdoors.

stephenjmcd

Thats me wrote: »

This is NPHET recommendations, what will be enforced by government we will see tomorrow.

It was covered in the press conference on Friday night. The question was asked is it mandatory, the answer was no.

Theres nothing to see about tomorrow, its already been covered off when cabinet signed off on everything on Friday.

Anyway this isn't the mask thread

MrStuffins

Hunky Monster wrote: »

They can f off if they think they can push masks on people outdoors.

I'd imagine that, because they know that cases are going to go up over Christmas and the New Year, they're going to try to offset some of those by trying to reduce the number of infections that happen outside.

They also know that people will be out shopping and foot-fall will be big do outside masks will help keep infections in that situation as a minimum.

Zebra3

DeanAustin wrote: »

Touchy. I’m someone on a message board expressing an opinion. Which is fairly normal. You’re trying to put your argument across as the only sensible one by undermining the opposing view with wilful ignorance.

The €9 is not the knife edge. No one thinks food repels Covid. The government and NPHET believe that if people are eating a decent meal with food, they are less likely to get hammered and lower their inhibitions which would lead, inevitably, to close contact. The €9 comes from some decades old legislation that defines a decent meal I believe.

You can argue that such a move is not effective. Fair enough. But there is clear logic there. From personal experience, I think it has an impact. It’s not the whole answer or a game changer but, to quote Tesco, every little helps.

Getting hammered in a pub within and an hour and 45 minutes?

Talk about out of touch.

Gervais08

Zebra3 wrote: »

Getting hammered in a pub within and an hour and 45 minutes?

Talk about out of touch.

Be nice if that was the case, be a much cheaper night out!!

ginoginelli

Just a few months now until the vaccine rollout , its incredulous to think that many people are going to flock to these high trasmission hotspots when they open. Of course you will get a few dummies but it will mainly be alchos who just can't help themselves. All we can do is hope they dont infect too many others.

DeanAustin

Zebra3 wrote: »

Getting hammered in a pub within and an hour and 45 minutes?

Talk about out of touch.

From my experience last time, the meal bit was enforced much more than the 1 hour 45 mins limit. I didn’t hear of one person being thrown out of a pub or asked to leave but I know many who stayed long beyond the 1 hour 45 mins.

DeanAustin

DeanAustin wrote: »

You’re trying to put your argument across as the only sensible one by undermining the opposing view with wilful ignorance.

Oh dear. Who appointed you as a concrete authority on the opposing view? "Wilful ignorance" is only your own projection. You're not very good at this I'm afraid.

Irish Steve

opinionated3 wrote: »

Give it a rest. Your as depressing as holohan at this stage.

Oh dear. You clearly can't cope with the truth of where things are.

Not in the least surprised, and the people thanking you don't surprise me either.

RTE has just carried an interesting item on the news about the external research that has been done on the cases caused by different establishments, and it's no surprise that the wet pubs are/were a significant contributor.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1129/1181216-covid-wet-pubs/

And no, I don't care that you don't like the message, I am entitled to my view as much as you are. That is the principle of Boards, and if you don't like it, there is a simple solution, it's called ignore, and the beauty of that option is that only you know who's on your ignore list.

Have to admit, I'd not be complaining if I was getting the same money as Holohan.