Opening of "No-Food" pubs pushed out again

hynesie08

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Fair point... and I think we can ( or should ) also factor in the " Irishness " of how things roll out. Lets be honest, we are not best known for our efficiency?

But the way I see it once health workers, the elderly and the vulnerable get their jabs I cannot see why restrictions don't start getting lifted?

The question should be what is the population of people over 70 + healthcare workers + vulnerable persons? That is basically the break even point from a safety point of view?

I actually have more faith in the "Irishness" than anything else, I really don't think we'll stick the vaccine in the boot of the Dublin/galway gobus. If worst comes to worst I absolutely see the army pulling rank and organising the transport, set up and possibly even the injections........

Necro

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Fair point... and I think we can ( or should ) also factor in the " Irishness " of how things roll out. Lets be honest, we are not best known for our efficiency?

But the way I see it once health workers, the elderly and the vulnerable get their jabs I cannot see why restrictions don't start getting lifted?

The question should be what is the population of people over 70 + healthcare workers + vulnerable persons? That is basically the break even point from a safety point of view?

Yes, theoretically once the high risk people are vaccinated we should hopefully see a roll back.

Lookit we're all bracing ourselves for probably level 5 again in January anyways.

The plan today is hopeful, but I think a little more patience and we'll get over the line.

Hopefully they get through the first group if not the first two by end of Jan and they can drop us back to level 3, then roll back further as more supply becomes available and indeed more people are vaccinated.

It's killing me personally, none of the pubs where I live serve food so will be a very dry Christmas (I don't drink much at home because of the kids)

Necro

hynesie08 wrote: »

I actually have more faith in the "Irishness" than anything else, I really don't think we'll stick the vaccine in the boot of the Dublin/galway gobus. If worst comes to worst I absolutely see the army pulling rank and organising the transport, set up and possibly even the injections........

They're already involved in the mobile test centres so I see no reason why they wouldn't be deployed to the major mass vaccination centres too

hynesie08

Necro wrote: »

They're already involved in the mobile test centres so I see no reason why they wouldn't be deployed to the major mass vaccination centres too

They're the boys you don't know about until you know about them, and if Donnelly drags his feet (which I don't think he will) we'll very quickly know about them..........

Ray Donovan

IAMAMORON wrote: »

It is not just the pubs they need opening, the airports also and the country as a whole.

Once the HSE and the elderly get their jabs it will rollout quick enough. It is more cost efficient to vaccinate everyone than fork out 350 a week. Believe.

I reckon we are back drinking by Paddy's day. Flights too.

But will we be drinking at the bar? Sitting at a table practically asking permission if you can go to the toilet is a waste of time. Basically when will pubs be back to the way they were in February 2019?

Zebra3

Ray Donovan wrote: »

But will we be drinking at the bar? Sitting at a table practically asking permission if you can go to the toilet is a waste of time. Basically when will pubs be back to the way they were in February 2019?

An bhfuil cead agam.....

PommieBast

Ray Donovan wrote: »

Basically when will pubs be back to the way they were in February 2019?

It is a matter of "if" because most pubs will be in receivership by the time "when" comes about.

Neowise

PommieBast wrote: »

It is a matter of "if" because most pubs will be in receivership by the time "when" comes about.

I think in this pandemic age, we need more pubs.


Every pub I try to book is full. There is not enough pubs to service demand at this moment in time.



It seems stupid to have pubs closed, when there is not enough available at the moment to service the demand, while keeping all social distancing rules.


I know for a fact, that on a thursday, i am not able to book a table in my local pub/gastropub/resturtant for a saturday night drink, because it is fully booked out, and it takes a deposit against my credit card if i do make a reservation, which i got on a tuesday, as its less busy. the deposit was refunded after i paid for my drinks/meals.


There is more demand than available place at the weekend currently, and i think non food pubs could service that demand, in just as safe and socaily distant maner as food pubs are currently doing.


Non food pubs are not asking to open like its 2019, they understand there is a pandemic, just as well as eveybody else, and so does their customers.


If a customers believes that a premises is risking their health, then they will not frequent that premises.


Normal best business practices will close crappy pubs who don't adhere to the necessary social distancing pratices. If customers frequent unsafe joints, they may get sick, so why frequent them, when there is other places that values your life.

Strumms

People after consuming alcohol don’t have the ability to risk asses, don’t have the ability after alcohol to complete and maintain good, proper and safe judgements... alcohol isn’t Guinness, Bacardi, Powers, a White Russian, it is a chemical, a psychotropic drug and is a chemical substance that changes nervous system function and results in a change to maintain good judgement , mood, proper consciousness, cognition, and often behavior.... it doesn’t mix with covid unfortunately.

beggars_bush

IAMAMORON wrote: »

It is not just the pubs they need opening, the airports also and the country as a whole.

Once the HSE and the elderly get their jabs it will rollout quick enough. It is more cost efficient to vaccinate everyone than fork out 350 a week. Believe.

I reckon we are back drinking by Paddy's day. Flights too.

That's not going to happen

IAMAMORON

beggars_bush wrote: »

That's not going to happen

I don't honestly know the timescale, but it is going to happen. Once health care workers are inoculated you will see outbreaks dramatically decrease and as the elderly inoculation program gets rolled out you will see less and less infected persons having to attend hospital.

SARS 1 basically vanished within 24 months of it's initial outbreak.

If they start inoculating in the new year I reckon they have jabbed all the necessary by the end of February? Granted we are talking about the HSE here, but if we assume they can get their act together for 2 months, they have been great so far in fairness to them.

It also goes to show how much of a political hot potato the HSE and the health service is in general. How often do you see some dour journalist, whining lyrical outside some hospital in the midlands in early January, about people on trollies suffering from the flu? This gets linked into countless newspaper articles and opposition TD's wailing on about, " a holy disgrace". At least the Covid Vaccine rollout should save us from this annual tut tut.

Neowise

Strumms wrote: »

People after consuming alcohol don’t have the ability to risk asses, don’t have the ability after alcohol to complete and maintain good, proper and safe judgements... alcohol isn’t Guinness, Bacardi, Powers, a White Russian, it is a chemical, a psychotropic drug and is a chemical substance that changes nervous system function and results in a change to maintain good judgement , mood, proper consciousness, cognition, and often behavior.... it doesn’t mix with covid unfortunately.

This is absolute tripe.



I could agree to [some people after consuming significant quantities of alcohol may have a lesser ability to assess risks correctly] but as you have wrote it, it is simply untrue, and wrong.

Dub81

Strumms wrote: »

People after consuming alcohol don’t have the ability to risk asses, don’t have the ability after alcohol to complete and maintain good, proper and safe judgements... alcohol isn’t Guinness, Bacardi, Powers, a White Russian, it is a chemical, a psychotropic drug and is a chemical substance that changes nervous system function and results in a change to maintain good judgement , mood, proper consciousness, cognition, and often behavior.... it doesn’t mix with covid unfortunately.

what a bizzare statement

boombang

Dub81 wrote: »

what a bizzare statement

Totally logical statement that accords with my knowledge, experience and enjoyment of alcohol.

It also corresponds with my experience of a locked man coming up and embracing the others at my table at a restaurant this summer. People with booze on board don't make the same decisions as when sober and this matters when there's an infectious disease going around.

I wonder do the gargle mongers on this thread even believe COVID is real.

HeidiHeidi

Neowise wrote: »

This is absolute tripe.



I could agree to [some people after consuming significant quantities of alcohol may have a lesser ability to assess risks correctly] but as you have wrote it, it is simply untrue, and wrong.

Dub81 wrote: »

what a bizzare statement

Spot on IMO.


Anyone who thinks alcohol doesn't affect your judgement and ability to make quality decisions is deluded.

Neowise

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Spot on IMO.


Anyone who thinks alcohol doesn't affect your judgement and ability to make quality decisions is deluded.

Affect judgement and affects ability to make quality decisions is not the same as, unable to asses risks.


If 100 people were given one unit of alcohol, and asked to attempt to either juggle tennis balls or razor sharp swords, how many of them one hundred people would be attempting to juggle the swords. There was zero attempt to consider the majority of people who drink in moderation and only zoomed in on the minority that abuse alcohol.

Geuze

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I don't honestly know the timescale, but it is going to happen. Once health care workers are inoculated you will see outbreaks dramatically decrease

Are you assuming here that the vaccine prevents transmission?

I don't think that is being claimed.

The vaccine maker and regulators do not claim that the vaccine prevents transmission.

average_runner

Neowise wrote: »

Affect judgement and affects ability to make quality decisions is not the same as, unable to asses risks.


If 100 people were given one unit of alcohol, and asked to attempt to either juggle tennis balls or razor sharp swords, how many of them one hundred people would be attempting to juggle the swords. There was zero attempt to consider the majority of people who drink in moderation and only zoomed in on the minority that abuse alcohol.

Some can handle it better than others, but if you walk out on to the streets at 3am when things were rocking, you see how we behave. Hugs all around, people hanging out of each other etc. Alot of people become more friendlier when drinking

Neowise

average_runner wrote: »

Some can handle it better than others, but if you walk out on to the streets at 3am when things were rocking, you see how we behave. Hugs all around, people hanging out of each other etc. Alot of people become more friendlier when drinking

But the law says they need to be empty by 11pm, so why would people be leaving at 3am?

SAMTALK

Neowise wrote: »

Affect judgement and affects ability to make quality decisions is not the same as, unable to asses risks.


If 100 people were given one unit of alcohol, and asked to attempt to either juggle tennis balls or razor sharp swords, how many of them one hundred people would be attempting to juggle the swords. There was zero attempt to consider the majority of people who drink in moderation and only zoomed in on the minority that abuse alcohol.

But you can't drive after having a drink, Why ?

Anyone who thinks they will carry on 100 % the same as pre drinks is deluded. Of course people will not assess risks the same way

Bunny Colvin

Neowise wrote: »

Affect judgement and affects ability to make quality decisions is not the same as, unable to asses risks.


If 100 people were given one unit of alcohol, and asked to attempt to either juggle tennis balls or razor sharp swords, how many of them one hundred people would be attempting to juggle the swords. There was zero attempt to consider the majority of people who drink in moderation and only zoomed in on the minority that abuse alcohol.

I'd say the majority of people that drink abuse alcohol in some way or another. I don't know many people who calculate their alcoholic units on a night out.

Dub81

boombang wrote: »

Totally logical statement that accords with my knowledge, experience and enjoyment of alcohol.

It also corresponds with my experience of a locked man coming up and embracing the others at my table at a restaurant this summer. People with booze on board dont make the decisions and this matters when there's an infectious disease going around.

I wonder do the gargle mongers on this thread even believe COVID is real.

Theres a sweeping generalisation if i ever seen one, who are you to make such sweeping statements about people who consume alcohol, you dont think that people cant go out and have a few drinks without going around hugging and slobbering over people, by your logic any "gargle mongers" as you refer to them are a slobbering mess incapable of having a few drinks and a laugh.

The mind boggles :eek:

boombang

Dub81 wrote: »

Theres a sweeping generalisation if i ever seen one, who are you to make such sweeping statements about people who consume alcohol, you dont think that people cant go out and have a few drinks without going around hugging and slobbering over people, by your logic any "gargle mongers" as you refer to them are a slobbering mess incapable of having a few drinks and a laugh.

The mind boggles :eek:

The mind does indeed boggle.

There's clearly going to be a spectrum from quiet aul' lads not infecting anybody to pissheads hugging and jumping all over each other. It's hard to find workable rules that permits the former without the latter emerging. I've seen the latter with my own eyes the summer months. Without controls I believe many would be back to business as usual and Ireland would not be the COVID success story that it is relative to other countries.

Anyway, I don't know why I keep posting here. Most of you still want to believe that we should fling the doors open and everyone should enjoy a jar and not worry about the consequences.

PommieBast

IAMAMORON wrote: »

If they start inoculating in the new year I reckon they have jabbed all the necessary by the end of February? Granted we are talking about the HSE here, but if we assume they can get their act together for 2 months, they have been great so far in fairness to them.

Cue the arguments over who constitutes the necessary. There will be someone in position of influence pushing for whats amount to an everyone jabbed policy.

jippo nolan

Strumms wrote: »

People after consuming alcohol don’t have the ability to risk asses, don’t have the ability after alcohol to complete and maintain good, proper and safe judgements... alcohol isn’t Guinness, Bacardi, Powers, a White Russian, it is a chemical, a psychotropic drug and is a chemical substance that changes nervous system function and results in a change to maintain good judgement , mood, proper consciousness, cognition, and often behavior.... it doesn’t mix with covid unfortunately.

Speak for yourself, are you not able for it?

saabsaab

Roll out the jabs. The Defence forces should be involved with field hospitals around the country.

opinionated3

What are the realistic chances of wet pubs being allowed to open for st Patrick's Day? Would give the publicans a bit of certainty to aim for rather than stringing them along, denying them their business one lockdown at at time

1966

opinionated3 wrote: »

What are the realistic chances of wet pubs being allowed to open for st Patrick's Day? Would give the publicans a bit of certainty to aim for rather than stringing them along, denying them their business one lockdown at at time

My money is on reopening pubs after 17 March.

Biggest piss-up day in the Country will be avoided at all costs.

IAMAMORON

PommieBast wrote: »

Cue the arguments over who constitutes the necessary. There will be someone in position of influence pushing for whats amount to an everyone jabbed policy.

It has already been published by NPHET.

IAMAMORON

Geuze wrote: »

Are you assuming here that the vaccine prevents transmission?

I don't think that is being claimed.

The vaccine maker and regulators do not claim that the vaccine prevents transmission.

Yes I am assuming that it prevents transmission?

PommieBast

IAMAMORON wrote: »

It has already been published by NPHET.

Linky?


I thought they had only published a list of what order people are getting jabbed and nothing actually linking this progress to reopenings

boombang

jippo nolan wrote: »

Speak for yourself, are you not able for it?

They don't need to speak for themselves, it's all the idiots who'll be getting jarred and spreading COVID that we need to think of.

Anyway, anybody will be banjaxed if they have enough.

PTH2009

Jesus I miss the after work pint, nowadays you have to be done work for latest 9.30pm esp with the food and that

ShineOn7

The desperation of some in here to get the pubs open says it all about Ireland's laughable fascination with alcohol

London and loads more areas in the UK now have zero bars open. Even with food served

But in Ireland? Nah, let's open up gastropubs at Christmas

The mind boggles and in January we're completely fúcked


Also - https://imgur.com/uJ4Xhzf

Melanchthon

ShineOn7 wrote: »

The desperation of some in here to get the pubs open says it all about Ireland's laughable fascination with alcohol

London and loads more areas in the UK now have zero bars open. even with food served

But in Ireland? Nah, let's open up gastropubs at Christmas

The mind boggles and in January we're completely fúcked


Also - https://imgur.com/uJ4Xhzf

In most parts of the UK the pubs have been open at least for outdoor drinking at a minimum for over half the year.
In Dublin they have never opened again, it's not the same!

lukas8888

ShineOn7 wrote: »

The desperation of some in here to get the pubs open says it all about Ireland's laughable fascination with alcohol

London and loads more areas in the UK now have zero bars open. even with food served

But in Ireland? Nah, let's open up gastropubs at Christmas

The mind boggles and in January we're completely fúcked


Also - https://imgur.com/uJ4Xhzf

What are you on about, our 14 day rate when the foods pubs opened was around 80 nationally,London pubs were all opened until today and their rate is 299 per 100K. If our rate reaches anywhere near that we will also close the pubs a lot quicker than the UK.

ShineOn7

I see there's no point in talking sense in this thread. It's full of people screaming "open da pubs!" during a once in a century pandemic

The drink culture in this country is a little pathetic tbh

IAMAMORON

PommieBast wrote: »

Linky?


I thought they had only published a list of what order people are getting jabbed and nothing actually linking this progress to reopenings

As soon as the infection rate drops and NPHET give the nod that all staff, elderly and the vulnerable have been inoculated they will open up everywhere.

The list is published. It is all over bar the shouting now.

Sure they have been surreptitiously allowing kids and students get infected for months now.

Hulk Hands

ShineOn7 wrote: »

I see there's no point in talking sense in this thread. It's full of people screaming "open da pubs!" during a once in a century pandemic

The drink culture in this country is a little pathetic tbh

He's literally just responded to you with a fact based post about our incidence rate being a fraction of the UK's when we decided to open, after they've been open the vast majority of the time since May. And then you ignore it and post this nonsense. Very ironic post, unintentionally

weldoninhio

ShineOn7 wrote: »

The desperation of some in here to get the pubs open says it all about Ireland's laughable fascination with alcohol

London and loads more areas in the UK now have zero bars open. Even with food served

But in Ireland? Nah, let's open up gastropubs at Christmas

The mind boggles and in January we're completely fúcked


Also - https://imgur.com/uJ4Xhzf

Ah we’re doomed.

Like we were after Cheltenham.
And after the Italian tourists.
And after the May bank holiday.
And after the June bank holiday.
And after the summer street parties.
And after the anti-mask protests.
And after gastropubs opened in the summer.
And after the drinking in Dame Lane.
And after the college parties.
And after the drinking on the streets.

Do you never get tired of crying wolf??

ShineOn7

weldoninhio wrote: »

Ah we’re doomed.

Like we were after Cheltenham.
And after the Italian tourists.
And after the May bank holiday.
And after the June bank holiday.
And after the summer street parties.
And after the anti-mask protests.
And after gastropubs opened in the summer.
And after the drinking in Dame Lane.
And after the college parties.
And after the drinking on the streets.

Do you never get tired of crying wolf??

Wtf are you talking about?

Did you see the case numbers before Level 5 lockdown and the Gastropubs were closed again? And the numbers of mortalaties recently?

Because in January we'll see those numbers on steroids and the Gastropubs will play a part in them

But sure having the craic is more important

AdrianBalboa

431 new cases. Six deaths.

I hope the minding-my-own-business brigade are enjoying their drinks sans substantial meals. The life of your fellow man is a small price to pay for a pint and a read of the paper next to a roaring fire after all.

Sláinte.

ShineOn7

AdrianBalboa wrote: »

The life of your fellow man is a small price to pay for a pint and a read of the paper next to a roaring fire after all.

Priorities eh?

weldoninhio

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Wtf are you talking about?

Did you see the case numbers before Level 5 lockdown and the Gastropubs were closed again? And the numbers of mortalaties recently?

Because in January we'll see those numbers on steroids and the Gastropubs will play a part in them

But sure having the craic is more important

Calm down dear. The sky is not falling. Deaths in care homes have nothing to do with gastropubs being open.

opinionated3

Leo has just told the fine Gael party that restrictions are expected well into next year, possibly first six months. Interesting to see how many businesses, not just pub's, will go to the wall in 2021.

RageCondom420

Give me a break. Your moralisation of this issue is ridiculous. The people giving out about the rest of us trying to get on with our lives are faux-altruists.

I bet this is the most unselfish thing you have ever done with yourselves (staying in watching telle) and that is why you are flouting it and pointing fingers.

YOU stay at home, let the vulnerable stay at home, and let the rest of us go about our business. The vaccine will be along soon and then you can all come out of your caves and join us.

We have never cared about each-other or our problems before the pandemic, so stop acting like you give a crap about everyone all of a sudden.

We are not in this together, we never have been. Look after yourself and your family and don’t mind anybody else - they are all that ever have really mattered to us and all that ever will.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

weldoninhio wrote: »

Ah we’re doomed.

Like we were after Cheltenham.
And after the Italian tourists.
And after the May bank holiday.
And after the June bank holiday.
And after the summer street parties.
And after the anti-mask protests.
And after gastropubs opened in the summer.
And after the drinking in Dame Lane.
And after the college parties.
And after the drinking on the streets.

Do you never get tired of crying wolf??

Omg shut up...the lockdown is just for two weeks or at worst until we flatten the curve.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

weldoninhio wrote: »

Calm down dear. The sky is not falling. Deaths in care homes have nothing to do with gastropubs being open.

Or in the hospitals... These are people who have been in for weeks already.

Geuze

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Yes I am assuming that it prevents transmission?

That claim has not been made.

That is not known (yet).

More study is required to know whether or not it prevents transmission.

We know it reduces the severity of sickness, by triggering an immune response, ok.

But we do not know whether the infected people are infectious, or not.

Hulk Hands

AdrianBalboa wrote: »

431 new cases. Six deaths.

I hope the minding-my-own-business brigade are enjoying their drinks sans substantial meals. The life of your fellow man is a small price to pay for a pint and a read of the paper next to a roaring fire after all.

Sláinte.

7th lowest incidence rate out of 51 European countries. Zero cases reported from pubs and restaurants as yet. Congratulations to everyone and enjoy yourselves in safe responsible venues this Christmas

https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1339203177124651008?s=19