Opening of "No-Food" pubs pushed out again

melekalikimaka

Bass Reeves wrote: »

We exited lockdown less than 20 days ago. Two biggest changes were pub and restaurant reopening and retail reopening. Numbers have climbed expodentially since at a much higher rate than ever before.

This time we cannot say testing and tracing is having an effect. Pubs are much more likely to be the cause rather than any other source. Evidence is clear that gastro pubs that opened acted more like pubs than as pub restaurants. There is glaring evidence that many served drink without food.

unless of course the more potent strain is in ireland, which is very likely

weldoninhio

Bass Reeves wrote: »

We exited lockdown less than 20 days ago. Two biggest changes were pub and restaurant reopening and retail reopening. Numbers have climbed expodentially since at a much higher rate than ever before.

This time we cannot say testing and tracing is having an effect. Pubs are much more likely to be the cause rather than any other source. Evidence is clear that gastro pubs that opened acted more like pubs than as pub restaurants. There is glaring evidence that many served drink without food.

Have you seen the likes of Penneys etc?? People all over each other. I haven't seen people that close in a gastropub without being warned/asked to leave.

Shanotheslayer

weldoninhio wrote: »

The event with 30/40 people at it that was hugely blown out of proportion??

That's not what was asked though? It wasn't asked how many people etc, it was to show evidence.

That is evidence of a pub not following the procedures.

weldoninhio

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Realistically, what do you think is most likely?

There's a lot of hugs and hands shook at a funeral.

weldoninhio

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

That's not what was asked though? It wasn't asked how many people etc, it was to show evidence.

That is evidence of a pub not following the procedures.

Berlin Bar isn't a pub. It has a theater license.

Bass Reeves

weldoninhio wrote: »

How do you know they aren't related to the actual funeral?? Does the holy spirit protect you in church?? No, couldn't be that, has to be the afters.

Social distancing is church is observed at all church services. Numbers are limited to either 25 or 50 in an area that can often seat 300+.

Empty seats between rows and groups seated separately. Nothing to do with divine protection. Pubs have shown a scant regard for the rules just haul it in as fast as possible.

As well looking at countries that have left pubs and restaurants open all struggled to control the virus. The UK and NI are great examples

bladespin

bladespin wrote: »

That's very circumstantial tbh, we can assume such but there's no evidence to prove it, you'd hope that there's be some seriously heavyweight evdience behind shutting a business down, a little more than that anyway.

I know some. Plenty were at it. It's always a few that **** it up for the rest.

Shanotheslayer

weldoninhio wrote: »

Berlin Bar isn't a pub. It has a theater license.

Pedantic.

Shanotheslayer

weldoninhio wrote: »

There's a lot of hugs and hands shook at a funeral.

Absolutely, entirely possible. But again you didn't answer my question. What do you think is realistically more likely?

bladespin

6 wrote: »

I know some. Plenty were at it. It's always a few that **** it up for the rest.

I agree but have seen just as many 'breeches' outside the local church and in the shops, hardly proves the pub/restaurant to be the hub centre of Covid that many think it is, during the same timeframe many other restrictions were relaxed as well, it's also known to be surging through several schools now.

weldoninhio

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Social distancing is church is observed at all church services. Numbers are limited to either 25 or 50 in an area that can often seat 300+.

Empty seats between rows and groups seated separately. Nothing to do with divine protection. Pubs have shown a scant regard for the rules just haul it in as fast as possible.

As well looking at countries that have left pubs and restaurants open all struggled to control the virus. The UK and NI are great examples

We are talking about a specific funeral that apparently had 2/300+ people at it

bladespin

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Pedantic.

Not a bit, they've shown a disregard for their licence, many publicans would be much more careful, it's a huge difference IMO.

RocketRaccoon

The absolute state of people here trying to defend pubs staying open, you are absolutely pathetic and that's coming from someone who worked in one for 10 years on and off.

Of course I feel bad for the staff but I have also felt bad for them throughout all of this, I felt bad for the ones who have to be near absolute morons over the last few weeks who can't follow simple instruction and sit at a table, wear a mask to the toilet.

It's people like John(weldoninhio above) who are to blame for this, people who just constantly want to go against the government guidelines on this, the ones who think they are clever by booking tables in multiple bars to have a long night out. Well this is what it has gotten you.

Bass Reeves

weldoninhio wrote: »

Have you seen the likes of Penneys etc?? People all over each other. I haven't seen people that close in a gastropub without being warned/asked to leave.

Yes there is always idiots it just there is more in pubs. In pennies you are wearing a mask all the time, transmission is less likely, you are touching cloth materials which are less likely to transfer the virus,( it survives less time) you will not be there for 4-6 hours which pubs allowed this time.

weldoninhio

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Absolutely, entirely possible. But again you didn't answer my question. What do you think is realistically more likely?

A virus doesn't care about likely. If Person A shakes hands with Person B (bereaved), and spreads the virus, then Person B shakes 100, 200 other peoples hands it'll spread like wildfire in an allegedly packed church.

Shanotheslayer

bladespin wrote: »

Not a bit, they've shown a disregard for their licence, many publicans would be much more careful, it's a huge difference IMO.

I'm 100% confident many pubs would be more careful.

I'm also 100% confident many pubs would not be careful.

Bass Reeves

weldoninhio wrote: »

We are talking about a specific funeral that apparently had 2/300+ people at it

The cousins I presume. I think they tried to have a gathering last weekend in cork that had to be broken up as well.

Shanotheslayer

weldoninhio wrote: »

A virus doesn't care about likely. If Person A shakes hands with Person B (bereaved), and spreads the virus, then Person B shakes 100, 200 other peoples hands it'll spread like wildfire in an allegedly packed church.

I'm aware. So no need to waste your time explaining it. The fact you are choosing not to answer it would indicate to me that most likely you think it's actually the pub were it probably transmitted because, lets be honest, it sort of makes sense given alcohol being involved and the higher likelihood of interaction.

It will be impossible to ever know, but educated guesses are the best anybody can do in those situations. I'm sure the pub has CCTV? So I'm sure if they were all following procedure the pub will just release the CCTV and there will be no issues?

weldoninhio

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Pedantic.

Hardly pedantic, a theatre license is €500 a year. You could probably spin a profit out of that after 2/3 nights and not give a b*llix about losing it.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Few days notice again for the pubs. Lots of stock going to waste again. Poor publicans/restaurants.

weldoninhio

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

I'm aware. So no need to waste your time explaining it. The fact you are choosing not to answer it would indicate to me that most likely you think it's actually the pub were it probably transmitted because, lets be honest, it sort of makes sense given alcohol being involved and the higher likelihood of interaction.

It will be impossible to ever know, but educated guesses are the best anybody can do in those situations. I'm sure the pub has CCTV? So I'm sure if they were all following procedure the pub will just release the CCTV and there will be no issues?

Will it be some special CCTV that'll show who already has the virus? :rolleyes:

Shanotheslayer

weldoninhio wrote: »

Will it be some special CCTV that'll show who already has the virus? :rolleyes:

Nope but this is about evidence of pubs following procedures so it's kind of irrelevant really isn't it?

The pub has a video recording system in place to prove they followed the guidelines as best they could. So surely releasing it will only benefit them? Unless of course, that wasn't the case at all. Then they probably shouldn't release it.

Bass Reeves

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Few days notice again for the pubs. Lots of stock going to waste again. Poor publicans/restaurants.

Well if they had made an attempt to obey the rules they might not be closed so fast

hmmm

Tough times for pubs and restaurants, but I'm glad to see a more realistic tone from the industry bodies today. Pubs have been lead up the garden path with talks of reopening, and now another panicked (and obvious) shutdown well before the official date.

They're calling for increased financial support and talking about vaccines. I've seen ridiculous comments that the new restrictions might last 3 weeks. Of course it's not going to be 3 weeks, it could be 3 months.

Let's pay the pubs and restaurants to stay closed - none of this is their fault. Help restaurants to do delivery/outdoor dining if they want. All the efforts now have to go into getting the vaccines rolled out because we have no other way to control the virus from spreading without restricting the economy.

weldoninhio

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Nope but this is about evidence of pubs following procedures so it's kind of irrelevant really isn't it?

The pub has a video recording system in place to prove they followed the guidelines as best they could. So surely releasing it will only benefit them? Unless of course, that wasn't the case at all. Then they probably shouldn't release it.

No, we are literally talking about ONE specific case.

TomTomTim

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

The absolute state of people here trying to defend pubs staying open, you are absolutely pathetic and that's coming from someone who worked in one for 10 years on and off.

Of course I feel bad for the staff but I have also felt bad for them throughout all of this, I felt bad for the ones who have to be near absolute morons over the last few weeks who can't follow simple instruction and sit at a table, wear a mask to the toilet.

It's people like John(weldoninhio above) who are to blame for this, people who just constantly want to go against the government guidelines on this, the ones who think they are clever by booking tables in multiple bars to have a long night out. Well this is what it has gotten you.

People like you love to make speculative statements framed as facts. For people who claim to love science, you're not very scientific.

weldoninhio

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Well if they had made an attempt to obey the rules they might not be closed so fast

Ah cool, my local obeyed every rule, that's great news that they can remain open.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Well if they had made an attempt to obey the rules they might not be closed so fast

Here we go again...

Shanotheslayer

weldoninhio wrote: »

No, we are literally talking about ONE specific case.

Ah but now you're changing it. The question asked was provide evidence. And now it's oh but it's only ONE. Yes one, one that got caught.

You think every single pub are following procedures? Of course not, I know this because I've been in them. Are the majority of pubs following procedures? Probably

weldoninhio

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Ah but now you're changing it. The question asked was provide evidence. And now it's oh but it's only ONE. Yes one, one that got caught.

You think every single pub are following procedures? Of course not, I know this because I've been in them. Are the majority of pubs following procedures? Probably

You think more than one pub opened with a marquee to allow 2-300 people come from a funeral to them?? I'm changing nothing, I've been talking about the same case throughout. Hence the examples I gave of 300 people in church, the people hugging/shaking hands in the church/graveyard.

Shanotheslayer

weldoninhio wrote: »

You think more than one pub opened with a marquee to allow 2-300 people come from a funeral to them??.

No probably not, but at a high level they failed to follow procedures the volume of which they did it in is what got them caught.

You think this was the only pub that failed to follow the procedures?

weldoninhio

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

No probably not, but at a high level they failed to follow procedures the volume of which they did it in is what got them caught.

You think this was the only pub that failed to follow the procedures?

Probably not, do you think everyone follows the speed laws? Should be ban driving if over 10 people are caught speeding??

Shanotheslayer

weldoninhio wrote: »

Probably not, do you think everyone follows the speed laws? Should be ban driving if over 10 people are caught speeding??

You'd have to take that to the speeding covid thread mate. I'm just here to discuss pubs I don't want to drag the thread off topic.

weldoninhio

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

You'd have to take that to the speeding covid thread mate. I'm just here to discuss pubs I don't want to drag the thread off topic.

We are discussing pubs, it's an analogy. Should the many be punished, because the few aren't following the rules?? Is that a society you would like to live in??

PTH2009

Can't see a huge amount of places opening Christmas eve . Today and tomorrow will be like the Last days of Rome in terms of getting that pint

Decisions are such a joke for not just the hospitality industry many others too

Bass Reeves

weldoninhio wrote: »

Ah cool, my local obeyed every rule, that's great news that they can remain open.

Well my local never got a chance to open it's a wet pub. This was the situation right across rural Ireland. The gastro pubs again got there chance to open. Again a substantial minority F@@ked it up for all the rest. That life, that's living with COVID it not fair it's just reality.

During the last opening in September I got out for a pint twice. Both times within regulations 3-4 pints in two hours. I used to go to the pub twice a week. Now I cannot go at all. Pre my local opening I got out 3-4 times during the summer to gastro pubs. The ones I went to followed the rules. But my children were in ones that definately did not.

Bass Reeves

weldoninhio wrote: »

We are discussing pubs, it's an analogy. Should the many be punished, because the few aren't following the rules?? Is that a society you would like to live in??

That grand but pubs in general refused to abide by the rules. The problem is if we let COVID put of conyrol we are looking at a shot load of people dying. More than get killed in car crashes in 10+ years in a few months.


You just have to look at the figures in the US, UK and our beloved friends in NI

YellowLead

Can pubs and restaurants still do take away or is it and out and out close?

Charles Babbage

weldoninhio wrote: »

Have you seen the likes of Penneys etc?? People all over each other. I haven't seen people that close in a gastropub without being warned/asked to leave.

Plenty of pubs without social distancing. But even in Penneys you push in for the €1 Christmas knickers and then you go and pay. You were only close to someone else for a couple of minutes, people are staying pubs for 4-5 hours.

YellowLead wrote: »

Can pubs and restaurants still do take away or is it and out and out close?

They can still do takeaways.

weldoninhio

Bass Reeves wrote: »

That grand but pubs in general refused to abide by the rules. The problem is if we let COVID put of conyrol we are looking at a shot load of people dying. More than get killed in car crashes in 10+ years in a few months.


You just have to look at the figures in the US, UK and our beloved friends in NI

If "pubs in general" refused to "abide by the rules", why weren't the Gardai shutting them down, as they got the legal power to do a few months ago?? The more they shut, the less they have to patrol.

Poorside

Bass Reeves wrote: »

That grand but pubs in general refused to abide by the rules.

Well that's absolute bull.

Bass Reeves

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Plenty of pubs without social distancing. But even in Penneys you push in for the €1 Christmas knickers and then you go and pay. You were only close to someone else for a couple of minutes, people are staying pubs for 4-5 hours.



They can still do takeaways.

If Penny's and 1 euro knickers were the main transmission issue we see the transmission figures in a certain subset.

If funerals in churches or church gatherings were the issue we see it in a different subset of the population.

Government and NPHET are able to look at these subsets and figure it out.

Poorside

Bass Reeves wrote: »

If Penny's and 1 euro knickers were the main transmission issue we see the transmission figures in a certain subset.

If funerals in churches or church gatherings were the issue we see it in a different subset of the population.

Government and NPHET are able to look at these subsets and figure it out.

What Subset exactly are they looking at? And please elaborate on the others.

Bass Reeves

weldoninhio wrote: »

If "pubs in general" refused to "abide by the rules", why weren't the Gardai shutting them down, as they got the legal power to do a few months ago?? The more they shut, the less they have to patrol.

They weren't given the powers

LuasSimon

hmmm wrote: »

Tough times for pubs and restaurants, but I'm glad to see a more realistic tone from the industry bodies today. Pubs have been lead up the garden path with talks of reopening, and now another panicked (and obvious) shutdown well before the official date.

They're calling for increased financial support and talking about vaccines. I've seen ridiculous comments that the new restrictions might last 3 weeks. Of course it's not going to be 3 weeks, it could be 3 months.

Let's pay the pubs and restaurants to stay closed - none of this is their fault. Help restaurants to do delivery/outdoor dining if they want. All the efforts now have to go into getting the vaccines rolled out because we have no other way to control the virus from spreading without restricting the economy.

Are most medium sized pubs not doing ok been closed. Pub i know the husband and the wife are both getting 350 every week and have got a number of different grants as well, he tells me hes better off with the pub closed. Its in a rural town??

weldoninhio

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Plenty of pubs without social distancing. But even in Penneys you push in for the €1 Christmas knickers and then you go and pay. You were only close to someone else for a couple of minutes, people are staying pubs for 4-5 hours.



They can still do takeaways.

Have you a girlfriend?? They do not go into Penneys for a couple of minutes.

Charles Babbage

bladespin wrote: »

That's very circumstantial tbh, we can assume such but there's no evidence to prove it, you'd hope that there's be some seriously heavyweight evdience behind shutting a business down, a little more than that anyway.

Across the world there is plenty of evidence of transmission in pubs and restaurants.. But public health is concerned with aggregates, if an action reduces disease then you do that action, you do not futter around looking for "evidence" while people are dying.

never_mind

Absolutely horrible treatment of the hospitality sector. Ridiculous move and scapegoating yet again.

Bass Reeves

Poorside wrote: »

What Subset exactly are they looking at? And please elaborate on the others.

Penny and 1 euro knickers would be those that change there knickers regularly or maybe see a knickers as a disposable product..... That a joke.

However if transmission was mainly from clothes retailing and particularly from shops such as Penny's the Main early trsnsmission vehicle would have been females in the sub 40 age group.

Funeral would have seen outbreaks started on family sub groups mainly cousins , uncles aunts etc

Church gatherings would have seen a expodentially rise in an older sub group.

MOH

Allinall wrote: »

Majority of pubs close about 6 or 7 on Christmas eve anyway.

It's only a few hours earlier.

Get over it.

I've been limiting my contacts over the last couple of weeks so I could safely meet someone for dinner Christmas Eve at 6. That's my Christmas screwed.
I'm not getting over it.

hynesie08 wrote: »

Yes.

https://mobile.twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1341347326003179520

Sofa King Great wrote: »

Somehow it is easier to think that there is a worldwide conspiracy against pubs than to think that they are contributing to the spread of covid

Dub81 wrote: »

Again im asking you and others to provide evidence and not just offer up
"opinions" and "what ifs"


This is the thing with the anti pub birgade, they are all opinions and what ifs but are unable to provide any sort of evidence, so i just cant take people like this seriously.

I am so sick to death of all the lies at this point that I took 5 minutes to scrawl on this in response to a shocking bit of misleading data manipulation in the main thread. Obviously the hospitality bit doesn't include non-food pubs but since people seem to be lumping them all in together at this stage:



(Source, which in turn is sourced from HSE data. Green and red annotations mine)

It's definitely all hospitality and nothing to do with schools. And everything was definitely going up until level 5 saved us all.