Opening of "No-Food" pubs pushed out again

speckle

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Drop of wine anyone? I have coffee cups.

:pac:

I'll have a spirit tea and my favorite biscuit seeing this Xmas I dont have to fight the others for it

El_Duderino 09

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I asked you if you think people generally spend time in coffee shops the way they generally spend time in pubs. Anybody knows the answer or that question is “no, people don’t generally spend as much time in coffee shops as pubs”.

But instead, you suggested that people do, in fact, generally spend similar time in both. You must have known it wasn’t true when you said it, but you said it anyway. And it can’t feel good to sacrifice your honesty to make such a untrue, irrelevant point.

I told you what I believe. There is no need for you to make a personal slight against my integrity.

I've posted on and off on this thread over the last month or so - but I'm out now. I wish an early happy new year to you all as I unfollow.

speckle

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I asked you if you think people generally spend time in coffee shops the way they generally spend time in pubs. Anybody knows the answer or that question is “no, people don’t generally spend as much time in coffee shops as pubs”.

But instead, you suggested that people do, in fact, generally spend similar time in both. You must have known it wasn’t true when you said it, but you said it anyway. And it can’t feel good to sacrifice your honesty to make such a untrue, irrelevant point.

Aren't students known for their extended spent cafe time? And I go to the pub and dont drink alcohol like others I know.
Also some people go out one night to the pub and then some spend an hour a day in a coffee shop..so the hours even out.

And in rural Ireland many use the pub to meet up. There may be no cafe.

Drifter50

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

There’s absolutely no restriction on buying alcohol outside pubs. There have been plenty of calls for closing off-license alcohol sales and government hasn’t even entertained the idea.

But I think a lot of people calling for off-license closures were people doing it out of spite rather than out of anything serious. The vintners certainly publicly suggested there should be a ban on alcohol sales (if pubs can’t open).

There is regulation of alcohol sales and that’s government’s job. But the notion that there’s a puritan trend towards banning alcohol, is conspiracy theory stuff- akin to 5G or anti-vaccine, it makes me think the person saying it is probably not very bright.

I`m not sure why you continually choose to attack posters on this thread as to their views. This is a debating thread, if you don`t like the opposing viewpoint then so be it but I trust you are not insulting my intelligence in your comment above. Calling out someone by suggesting they are not very bright is not necessary. Just leave it and move on

cityboyjim

New Years Eve Rural Ireland .Local Bar .11-45 .Place mad .Home from Canada .Could you think of a better place to be with your family .

speckle

cityboyjim wrote: »

New Years Eve Rural Ireland .Local Bar .11-45 .Place mad .Home from Canada .Could you think of a better place to be with your family .

Normally we would all be outside at that time at rhe crossroads dancing to fiddles and counting down the seconds. An early happy and healthy new year to you.

hynesie08

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

What should they have done?

You’re the VFI and the government tells you that they don’t consider the pubs an essential business. They are high on the list of business to close and low on the list of business to reopen. What would you do better than the VFI?

So why do they actually exist?

Aviva threatened to import guinness from the UK, got a discounted rate, vfi shrugged their shoulders.

Wetherspoons came in, got irish beers cheaper than vfi members (can't use quantity as an excuse in ireland), vfi shrug their shoulders.

Covid happens, pubs spend thousands of euros on a reopening they aren't allowed because their lobby group has absolutely no power whatsoever......

So why would anybody renew their membership with them next year?

The lva are even worse.....

If they hadn't let pubs open in July, the fitzgerald bars and Berlin would have used their resteraunt license and opened. All the restrictions were in spite of them, not because of them.

Instead of asking what they could have done better, tell me what they actually did?

El_Duderino 09

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I told you what I believe. There is no need for you to make a personal slight against my integrity.

I think it’s interesting to see how far from reality, people are willing to go to make their pro-pub points on this topic.

Pubs are closed, unfortunately, but for solid reasons.

oldtimeyfella

cityboyjim wrote: »

New Years Eve Rural Ireland .Local Bar .11-45 .Place mad .Home from Canada .Could you think of a better place to be with your family .

I'd probably be in bed for at least an hour at that stage because i'm not 19 any more.


My family will still be there in the morning or any other day for that matter because i didn't run away overseas to join the circus.

El_Duderino 09

hynesie08 wrote: »

So why do they actually exist?

Aviva threatened to import guinness from the UK, got a discounted rate, vfi shrugged their shoulders.

Wetherspoons came in, got irish beers cheaper than vfi members (can't use quantity as an excuse in ireland), vfi shrug their shoulders.

Covid happens, pubs spend thousands of euros on a reopening they aren't allowed because their lobby group has absolutely no power whatsoever......

So why would anybody renew their membership with them next year?

The lva are even worse.....

If they hadn't let pubs open in July, the fitzgerald bars and Berlin would have used their resteraunt license and opened. All the restrictions were in spite of them, not because of them.

Instead of asking what they could have done better, tell me what they actually did?

Ok. And what’s the answer to the question I asked? What should they have done?

They represent an industry that is both non-essential and a great environment to spread covid. What should they have done differently?

El_Duderino 09

Drifter50 wrote: »

I`m not sure why you continually choose to attack posters on this thread as to their views. This is a debating thread, if you don`t like the opposing viewpoint then so be it but I trust you are not insulting my intelligence in your comment above. Calling out someone by suggesting they are not very bright is not necessary. Just leave it and move on

It depends, I think someone who espouses 5G conspiracy, anti vaccine conspiracy, or the Irish people and government Puritan anti alcohol conspiracy ( and lots of other conspiracy theories like Qanon), are not very bright. Do you subscribe to any of those theories? You don’t have to answer if the answer would be embarrassing.

hynesie08

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Ok. And what’s the answer to the question I asked? What should they have done?

They represent an industry that is both non-essential and a great environment to spread covid. What should they have done differently?

In order to do something differently, they would have had to do something first.

I miss sitting in coffee shops. Much like pubs they provided an escape for me when times were tough. Either alone with my book or in the company of friends. Certainly you won't get a crowd standing around a cafè or a few lines deep trying to order. Lots of people spend time in them all the same. Groups meeting up, friends and family out for a day, mothers having a rest with their kids, first dates, students, all of life.

So many are angry and frustrated and afraid. It's not really about pubs reopening or which business is more or less safe. Instead those things symbolise freedom and risk. It's Covid that drives us apart and stops us from getting along. I remind myself that we all want the same thing and it is finally in sight.

El_Duderino 09

hynesie08 wrote: »

In order to do something differently, they would have had to do something first.

Ok. So you’ve stated that they’re dreadful form not doing things differently and offered no ideas about what they should have done differently.

If you can think of anything they ought to have done, be sure to let us know. In the meantime the notion that you know better, can be easily dismissed.

El_Duderino 09

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I miss sitting in coffee shops. Much like pubs they provided an escape for me when times were tough. Either alone with my book or in the company of friends. Certainly you won't get a crowd standing around a cafè or a few lines deep trying to order. Lots of people spend time in them all the same. Groups meeting up, friends and family out for a day, mothers having a rest with their kids, first dates, students, all of life.

So many are angry and frustrated and afraid. It's not really about pubs reopening or which business is more or less safe. Instead those things symbolise freedom and risk. It's Covid that drives us apart and stops us from getting along. I remind myself that we all want the same thing and it is finally in sight.

So not really comparable to pubs and not really relevant to the discussion?

El_Duderino 09

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

So not really comparable to pubs and not really relevant to the discussion?

I answered your question with what I believe to be the case. Plenty spend as long in coffee shops as they do in pubs. The environment is different but I'm not so sure a coffee shop is automatically safer 100% of the time.
I've been in both since Covid began and personally felt safest in the pub because of the measures in place.

That's just my experience. You have yours and your viewpoint. At the end of the day we all just have opinions. I don't care enough about them to argue.

rob316

I think get ready for a party on Paddy's Day don't see anything open till then.

Humberto Salazar

rob316 wrote: »

I think get ready for a party on Paddy's Day don't see anything open till then.

Paddy's day 2022 certainly.

rob316

rob316 wrote: »

I think get ready for a party on Paddy's Day don't see anything open till then.

I’d start planning for the June bank holiday if I were you.

PTH2009

rob316 wrote: »

I think get ready for a party on Paddy's Day don't see anything open till then.

Yeah it will kick off the 16th March with a nations address by MM who will end it saying 'let's get **** faced' and will down a pint

rob316

rob316 wrote: »

I think get ready for a party on Paddy's Day don't see anything open till then.

I think it will be a while after that before we see the inside of a pub. I'd say the gastro pubs will be shut till Spring.

El_Duderino 09

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I answered your question with what I believe to be the case. Plenty spend as long in coffee shops as they do in pubs. The environment is different but I'm not so sure a coffee shop is automatically safer 100% of the time.
I've been in both since Covid began and personally felt safest in the pub because of the measures in place.

That's just my experience. You have yours and your viewpoint. At the end of the day we all just have opinions. I don't care enough about them to argue.

Just for clarity, you kept avoiding the question I asked (what people generally do) and instead answered what you personally do. You avoided the question I asked because it wouldn’t suit the argument you’re making although it would be more relevant to to the topic.

No need to ask you again. You’ve decided not to answer he question I’ve asked and you’ve repeated your point that you spend the same time in coffee shops and pubs. I think it’s clear why you’re answering the question I didn’t ask and not answering the question I asked. You mede my point about how you need to sacrifice you honesty to make the case for the pubs right not.

El_Duderino 09

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Just for clarity, you kept avoiding the question I asked (what people generally do) and instead answered what you personally do. You avoided the question I asked because it wouldn’t suit the argument you’re making although it would be more relevant to to the topic.

No need to ask you again. You’ve decided not to answer he question I’ve asked and you’ve repeated your point that you spend the same time in coffee shops and pubs. I think it’s clear why you’re answering the question I didn’t ask and not answering the question I asked. You mede my point about how you need to sacrifice you honesty to make the case for the pubs right not.

Wha?? *scratches head*

I think people can spend as long in a coffee shop as they would in a pub.
I don't think there one is more or less dangerous than the other.
They are both places where people congregate and spend time.

I don't know what else to say to you

El_Duderino 09

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Wha?? *scratches head*

I think people can spend as long in a coffee shop as they would in a pub.
I don't think there one is more or less dangerous than the other.
They are both places where people congregate and spend time.

I don't know what else to say to you

Yes you do. People generally spend much longer in pubs than coffee shops. That’s only in dispute for the sake of this discussion, not in real life.

Pubs are better places to spread the virus. Mostly because of the behaviour change that occurs as people get drunk.

You know these two things, but to make your point you need to pretend not to understand them. Don’t worry too much, you’re not alone in pretending not to understand the issue in order to make the points. Lots of posters are doing likewise.

If you acknowledged the reality it would make your point look silly, which it is.

IAMAMORON

I think it is important to never underestimate the tenacity of an introverted passive aggressive creep.... who doesn't drink.

It seems there are a lot of them about.

Never trust someone who won't a have a drink with you. Believe.

ShooterSF

rob316 wrote: »

I think get ready for a party on Paddy's Day don't see anything open till then.

They might need to reach out the Church to move it again like in '08. This time a few months into the year...

YFlyer

Are the pubs at the airports open?

El_Duderino 09

YFlyer wrote: »

Are the pubs at the airports open?

I remember hearing they were open during the last lockdown, so i suppose they’re probably open this time too. There was an article about people buying a cheap plane ticket so they could sit in the airport departures area and drink by and not get the flight.

You’ll always have some people who will do what they can to get around the rules. Didn’t seem like big problem though.

YFlyer

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I remember hearing they were open during the last lockdown, so i suppose they’re probably open this time too. There was an article about people buying a cheap plane ticket so they could sit in the airport departures area and drink by and not get the flight.

You’ll always have some people who will do what they can to get around the rules. Didn’t seem like big problem though.

Like Good Friday back in the door. Pubs in train stations used to be open as well that day.

Dickie10

theres going to be a major standoff when we get vulnerable and frontliners vacciiinated , then the discussion on restrictions will be good to see

aziz

Dickie10 wrote: »

theres going to be a major standoff when we get vulnerable and frontliners vacciiinated , then the discussion on restrictions will be good to see

Now there will be no relaxing of any restrictions until everyone gets the jab,
So 2023 should just about do it,just

Neowise

aziz wrote: »

Now there will be no relaxing of any restrictions until everyone gets the jab,
So 2023 should just about do it,just

Read this yesterdsay

Head of vaccine task force says by August, anyone who wants vaccine, will have it

source: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/a-momentous-day-annie-lynch-79-first-person-to-get-covid-19-vaccine-in-state-1.4446909




Why 2023, if everybody has been vacinated by august 2021?

aziz

Just saying,that the government will probably tear the arse out of it

YFlyer

Surely open tonight. It was done for the religious folks for Christmas

kippy

aziz wrote: »

Just saying,that the government will probably tear the arse out of it

Why would they do that if they didn't have to?

aziz

Remember last March “ just two weeks “

Itssoeasy

Dickie10 wrote: »

theres going to be a major standoff when we get vulnerable and frontliners vacciiinated , then the discussion on restrictions will be good to see

Let’s get to that point first.

Irish Steve

Dickie10 wrote: »

theres going to be a major standoff when we get vulnerable and frontliners vacciiinated , then the discussion on restrictions will be good to see

The discussions will be premature at that point, there's at least 3 weeks after the second dose before it's effective, and with the nonsense that's going on now, I will be surprised to see even the highest risk categories vaccinated before the end of February, so that's March blown, and then there's a lot of "at risk" people in the lower stages that need to be considered, and with the number of cases there are right now, recovery back to sensible daily numbers is going to take a lot longer than was originally anticipated.



This evening, the press conference was effectively an admission that they've lost control of the virus, and the support and reporting system that were supposed to give them the details of what's happening have all spectacularly collapsed, so now, they're effectively flying blind, things like reopening any sort of hospitality, let alone wet pubs is now so far off their radar, there's no point even asking them about it, they don't have a clue any more.

John O.Groats

Irish Steve wrote: »

The discussions will be premature at that point, there's at least 3 weeks after the second dose before it's effective, and with the nonsense that's going on now, I will be surprised to see even the highest risk categories vaccinated before the end of February, so that's March blown, and then there's a lot of "at risk" people in the lower stages that need to be considered, and with the number of cases there are right now, recovery back to sensible daily numbers is going to take a lot longer than was originally anticipated.



This evening, the press conference was effectively an admission that they've lost control of the virus, and the support and reporting system that were supposed to give them the details of what's happening have all spectacularly collapsed, so now, they're effectively flying blind, things like reopening any sort of hospitality, let alone wet pubs is now so far off their radar, there's no point even asking them about it, they don't have a clue any more.

Right so any type of pubs/restaurants/etc. are unlikely to reopen before next summer then.

Tucker tunsel

I personally can't see wet pubs opening till the very earliest November 2021

At all costs the wet pubs will continue to be pushed out and out for.some reason

Makes little sense especially in rural areas as having a hotel opened which is jammed to the rafters makes little sense,why not spread the crowds out. To open a bar and restaurant and shut 2 pubs in the same town will only push everyone into the same location.

Tazz T

kippy wrote: »

Why would they do that if they didn't have to?

Because they won't want to be seen as wrong.

El_Duderino 09

Most of the predictions about when pubs will open, seem to be masochistic and creating a victimhood narrative around anyone who enjoys the pub.

I won’t make any predictions because I don’t have the information to make a prediction. Truth is that the government will need to see how the vaccine programme works, how the numbers react and how hospitalisations and deaths change over time as more vulnerable people are vaccinated.

We know pubs are not a high priority for reopening. It’s not a puritan conspiracy against alcohol (some posters actually said they think it is), it’s just based on the fact that pubs are a good place to spread the virus. No point being surprised every time pubs are seen as a non essential business which is quick to be closed and slow to be reopened.

Hopefully the vaccine is effective and the rollout is efficient.

beggars_bush

How many of ye were caught in that Shebeen in Kildare?

weldoninhio

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yes you do. People generally spend much longer in pubs than coffee shops. That’s only in dispute for the sake of this discussion, not in real life.

Pubs are better places to spread the virus. Mostly because of the behaviour change that occurs as people get drunk.

You know these two things, but to make your point you need to pretend not to understand them. Don’t worry too much, you’re not alone in pretending not to understand the issue in order to make the points. Lots of posters are doing likewise.

If you acknowledged the reality it would make your point look silly, which it is.

Some people spend their Saturday nights in coffee shops. I’ve worked with numerous foreign doctors who would meet with friends early on a Saturday night in a coffee shop and stay til the early hours chatting away.

weldoninhio

kippy wrote: »

Why would they do that if they didn't have to?

Have you heard of the HSE??

St.Spodo

Looking at the projections for how the new variant might spread if it became the dominant strain in Ireland, it appears that level 3 may not be tenable for any length of time until we start to see the benefit of vaccinations. I suspect therefore that pubs and restaurants will be closed for the next 3 months.

El_Duderino 09

weldoninhio wrote: »

Some people spend their Saturday nights in coffee shops. I’ve worked with numerous foreign doctors who would meet with friends early on a Saturday night in a coffee shop and stay til the early hours chatting away.

Is so people generally spend the same or similar time in coffee shops as pubs?

I even voided the word generally in the post you quoted, and you answered with a specific example of a one specific unusual group of people you know.

I get that it’s a difficult question to actually answer directly (even though the answer is obvious) because answering it directly and honestly would put an end to the argument that cafes and pubs should be treated the same under covid rules.

cityboyjim

Ok So I own a coffee shop and a bunch comes in and buys even two cups each and takes a table for hours .Whats pays the rent and light and the bloody heat .I would need to be charging a tenner a cup .

hynesie08

cityboyjim wrote: »

Ok So I own a coffee shop and a bunch comes in and buys even two cups each and takes a table for hours .Whats pays the rent and light and the bloody heat .I would need to be charging a tenner a cup .

Ask starbucks/costa/insomnia how they make it work, there's a reason why they have couches, WiFi and sockets, so obviously their business model is based on spending time there.