Opening of "No-Food" pubs pushed out again

Drifter50

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

The people are bringing this about, not Leo and co.


Most people no longer want to visit dark and smelly pubs, where the only food is a pack of dry roasted peanuts. These watering holes are becoming few and far between.



This country is finally having a reckoning with it's dangerous attitude to alcohol and thankfully the side of moderation is winning out.


Young people are rejecting the notion that their weekend should be spent on the inside of some delapidated pub that stinks of stale beer and BO - instead they're embracing the outdoors followed by a nice meal and a glass of wine.

i think you are badly misjudging the way things are. There are 7 pubs in my locality, 4 traditional and 3 food pubs. All of them are busy with under 35`s who are there to have a few scoops, grab a bite to eat, watch the footie, meet mates etc. Generally living their lives. Whatever about embracing the outdoors, I don`t think you would be popular to suggest the wine bar alternative to the clientele of the pubs I know

PTH2009

wine bar type culture is not my cup of tea

no pints only overpriced 330ml bottles of Peroni/Tiger and the likes
no tvs with sport on
bland enough menus
early close times
preachy hipster poetry/acoustic gigs

Id take the pub experience instead thank you

fin12

PTH2009 wrote: »

wine bar type culture is not my cup of tea

no pints only overpriced 330ml bottles of Peroni/Tiger and the likes
no tvs with sport on
bland enough menus
early close times
preachy hipster poetry/acoustic gigs

Id take the pub experience instead thank you

The same bottle of ale from an off license costs €3, €7.50 for same bottle in hotel bar. Absolute rip off.

SteM

I've drunk in some oddball places but never anywhere that that had hipster poetry in the background! Must be some weird establishments in Waterford.

doublejobbing 2

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40207484.html

Under the new timeline, three categories of people will have received their vaccines by the end of March — residents/staff in nursing homes, frontline healthcare workers, over-70s.

By the end of June, the following groups will be vaccinated:

Other healthcare workers.
Those aged 55 to 69.
Key workers and those in crowded environments.
Those with chronic illnesses.
Education workers

Ireland's pubs were open, in various forms, from June 29th to October 6th.

If we count deaths starting from two weeks after June 29th, 83 deaths are logged up until early October. 104 are logged for the rest of October, attributable to community spread caused primarily by the reopening of schools and colleges, whose attendees all largely caught the virus due to it being reimported from the UK, Spain, the US and Eastern Europe, due to a complete and deliberate failure of the government and NPHET to enforce any sort of restrictions.

These of course are not even mostly Covid deaths. They are deaths where Covid was in the system. They are deaths of people who by and large were on death's door anyway. Over half of these people were over 83 years old from memory. NPHET won't give you the number of how many relatively fit and reasonably healthy and active OAP's died directly from Covid between July and late October because it wouldn't fit their narrative. Of keeping the public, particularly the elderly, afraid of their own shadow.

In four months, three of which the pubs were open, 187 people died with Covid in their system. By the end of March, everyone over 70 is scheduled to be vaccinated if they consent, along with the health staff they interact with.

Simply put- if we plodded along with the level we were in from July to October, BUT had all but sealed off foreign travel, there seems little reason to deduce that deaths with Covid in the system would have actually been LOWER than the 187 per 4 months we saw in mid to late 2020. Reason being, only a miniscule amount of those 187 people caught the virus via it being contracted in a pub setting. Nearly all caught it from a chain of events that began from July to October with a Spanish holiday, a returning emigrant from London, a Romanian meat plant worker who was home on holiday. We would have been back to a level where "wet pubs" could trade unabated, with distancing in place.


Tony Holohan is still trying to claim with a degree of seriousness that our 9 cases per day in June to 8000 per day in December was 98 percent down to organic growth unrelated to travel. Despite the UK variant comprising 25% of cases.



If this nonsense goes on after the April BH weekend, or if they don't allow us back in the two weekends before it but after paddy's day *, even surely the most pro government loon will have to see this whole charade for what it was. An attempt to break our culture, to make us like our European "betters".

Ireland also play Serbia at home on March 24th. If the vaccines are up to schedule it would be hard to see why a few thousand wouldn't be allowed in (although I think that is actually UEFA's call, and then would require gov approval)

doublejobbing 2

Tenzor07 wrote: »

maybe a few larger Wetherspoons will open would be the best we can hope for...

Surprisingly given how gung ho their CEO Tim Martin was about challenging the UK lockdown, my only trip to Spoons post Irish lockdown was undoubtetly the worst of the year, in that they were the only pub that to a T kept to the law.

Every other pub I went to gave some leeway. Some didn't insist on the meal. Some let us order the cheapest piece of food/ soup going for a fiver. Most didn't enforce the time rule unless there was a follow up booking (usually booked for 7pm so you could chance staying til closing)

Spoons unfortunately had nothing for a square 9 euro, wouldn't accept a cheaper order and the till had our table cut off by a timer system after the 1hr 45.

I like Spoons but I wouldn't touch it until the ridiculous limits are fully removed. I suppose you can't blame them, the local pubs would love to get an excuse to harm their licence.

MOH

Irish Steve wrote: »

You're welcome, stick with your flawed actual facts, and continue to ignore the embarassing fact that track and trace never went back far enough to expose the likely location where most people caught Covid.

ROFL! So your argument boils down to "the official figures are incomplete but if they were complete all the extra numbers would favour me". That's exactly the same as Trump insisting loads of votes are invalid, but coincidentally all the invalid ones were for his opponent.

It's been well established at this stage that there are a number of places that are responsible for the spread of Covid, and significant spikes were seen on a number of occasions as a direct result of events that took place in (mainly) pubs, GAA after match and funerals being 2 examples. It took a long time to get those spikes back out of the national numbers.

Again, thanks for the laugh. No such thing has ever been well established. Unless I've missed it - I'd welcome a link to an actual official source providing supporting data? (as opposed to some regional UK vintner's newsletter, like you've resorted to previously?)

Certainly the EY report which was described by our minsiter for ill-health as "unambiguous evidence" is nothing of the sort. It actually cites ambiguities, before it goes on to position a percentage difference in covid rate increase of around 10% as an 80+% difference, by taking one percentage as a percentage of the other. It's deliberately structured to try to portray a particular conclusion and still can't do so without heavy caveats.

Do you genuinely believe that these GAA after-match and post-funeral events would have just not happened if pubs weren't open? You know full well they would have happened anyway, in private locations. (Although there certainly is a question of why sporting events are allowed continue in the middle of a pandemic)

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Ah yeah, but you’re doing it again. Pretending you don’t know the difference between schools and pubs and why schools are open and pubs aren’t. The reasons are obvious but it involves balancing conflicting ideas and finding the solution, which the government has done.

Pubs are non-essential, schools are not. Schools are non-essential because they allow parents to go to work and pay the mortgage while also keep it the broader economy going.

Schools will certainly spread the virus - any environment which brings people together indoors, will spread the virus. So keeping schools and workplaces open would mean clamping down harder in other areas to control the spread of the virus.

You know all this stuff yourself. Why would you make an argument which pretends you don’t know it?

I absolutely know the difference between pubs and schools, thanks. One sector has been blamed continuously for covid spread despite having never reopened after closing voluntarily last March. The other has been kept open at all costs regardless of the number of covid cases caused and the ultimate cost to the economy. (It's probably not important to you, but also regardless of the resulting deaths.)

You really should know all this stuff yourself. Why would you keep making arguments which pretend you don’t know it?

Irish Steve

Re the GAA local celebrations, there was a massive spike around this area that was down to a local pub that broke just about all the rules, and ended up with them having to close completely a few days later because there were no staff left to run the place, they all went down with Covid, including the landlord, who then passed it on to the other pubs he owns. No, it didn't make the national headlines, but there's plenty of local people who witnessed and were affected by the numbers, and the same pub was closed before Christmas as a result of a Garda raid, they shouldn't have even been open! Similar happened in other pubs not far away.

Yes, if the pubs had been closed, the same would probably have happened as a result of private gatherings, either way, track and trace would not have known about these events because they don't go far enough back into the history. The fact that they happened at all is an indication of a very poor level of management at State level, GAA caused problems in a number of counties and towns, depending on who won. Would have been better to keep the whole thing shut down, but the GAA has too much clout for the Government to deny them.

We can agree on one thing, the EY report was a joke from Page 1, and should never have seen the light of day.

Aongus Von Bismarck

The decision to open restaurants and pubs serving food was a terrible mistake. The idea that pubs which didn't serve should be allowed to reopen was one of the most preposterous things I've ever had the misfortune of reading on this website. We didn't open them in Germany where we also have a strong pub culture, and we are still recording huge deaths each day. It would be catastrophic if we had made the decision to open them.

Kunta Kinte

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

The decision to open restaurants and pubs serving food was a terrible mistake. The idea that pubs which didn't serve should be allowed to reopen was one of the most preposterous things I've ever had the misfortune of reading on this website. We didn't open them in Germany where we also have a strong pub culture, and we are still recording huge deaths each day. It would be catastrophic if we had made the decision to open them.

Are you in Ireland or in Germany?

PommieBast

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

The decision to open restaurants and pubs serving food was a terrible mistake.

Opening up in general was a mistake, but difficult questions still have to be asked about how much of the spike was down to wholesale flouting of guidelines.

PommieBast

PommieBast wrote: »

Opening up in general was a mistake, but difficult questions still have to be asked about how much of the spike was down to wholesale flouting of guidelines.

If people are honest IBEC,vinteners associaton,ISME etc havnt served their members interests well in supporting these on/off again lockdowns and havnt pushed the government to properly persue a zero covid stragedy


Like if we open in early feb,chances are we will be in same position in terms of interaction by paddys day......push and sell the zero covid plan properly to the public to me,alongside an expanding vaccination programme.....should seriously be examined on an all island basis........this living with covid plan hasnt worked anywhere its been tried

ginoginelli

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If people are honest IBEC,vinteners associaton,ISME etc havnt served their members interests well in supporting these on/off again lockdowns and havnt pushed the government to properly persue a zero covid stragedy


Like if we open in early feb,chances are we will be in same position in terms of interaction by paddys day......push and sell the zero covid plan properly to the public to me,alongside an expanding vaccination programme.....should seriously be examined on an all island basis........this living with covid plan hasnt worked anywhere its been tried

I cant think of any organization bar Ryanair that handled itself so badly as the vitners throughout this pandemic. They betrayed their owners and the public.

Irish Steve

IF you want a zero Covid strategy to work, the only way to make that happen is to close the border with NI, and stop all Ro-Ro ferry services. Quite how we will then get all the goods required into the country will be an interesting challenge, as there's not enough Container capacity in terms of ships or port facilities to handle what currently arrives on Ro-Ro, and some of the major exporters in Ireland will also have massive problems making their export deliveries.

You'll also need to shut down all the flights coming in, and make special arrangements to handle cargo flights coming in and out, good luck with getting all that in place in less than 12 months.

fin12

Irish Steve wrote: »

IF you want a zero Covid strategy to work, the only way to make that happen is to close the border with NI, and stop all Ro-Ro ferry services. Quite how we will then get all the goods required into the country will be an interesting challenge, as there's not enough Container capacity in terms of ships or port facilities to handle what currently arrives on Ro-Ro, and some of the major exporters in Ireland will also have massive problems making their export deliveries.

You'll also need to shut down all the flights coming in, and make special arrangements to handle cargo flights coming in and out, good luck with getting all that in place in less than 12 months.

They would never do that here, they love people coming in from abroad and doing as they please. 150,000 came in over Christmas, I couldn’t believe that figure and half refused to say where they were staying...

fin12

fin12 wrote: »

They would never do that here, they love people coming in from abroad and doing as they please. 150,000 came in over Christmas, I couldn’t believe that figure and half refused to say where they were saying...

The neck some people have and people here scared sh*tless to go outside their 5km

Irish Steve

Irish Steve wrote: »

IF you want a zero Covid strategy to work, the only way to make that happen is to close the border with NI, and stop all Ro-Ro ferry services. Quite how we will then get all the goods required into the country will be an interesting challenge, as there's not enough Container capacity in terms of ships or port facilities to handle what currently arrives on Ro-Ro, and some of the major exporters in Ireland will also have massive problems making their export deliveries.

You'll also need to shut down all the flights coming in, and make special arrangements to handle cargo flights coming in and out, good luck with getting all that in place in less than 12 months.

As opposed to this rip roaring success that the government have of living with covid that has failed everywhere its tried
.

There should be serious qs asked about the wisdom of introducing tax breaks to encourage stay-cations and socialising during an pandemic and simply making zero effort in keeping the virus out


Rob kearney has immigrated to oz and is isolating for 2 weeks in a hotel room .....this bolix that we have to shut down flights etc coming in,is a low-brow cop-out by the government swallowed wholesale by media....scientifically it is only method that will work.....instead we are fed a line of rubbish,that we can somehow "live" with a highly transmissible virus that kills our old and sick

PTH2009

That tweet saying possibly Wet pubs not open til Autumn is both scary and sobering

Another summer of looking at other countries been more adventurous and us still locked up

Kunta Kinte

PTH2009 wrote: »

That tweet saying possibly Wet pubs not open til Autumn is both scary and sobering

Another summer of looking at other countries been more adventurous and us still locked up

Which tweet was that and from whom?

fin12

PTH2009 wrote: »

That tweet saying possibly Wet pubs not open til Autumn is both scary and sobering

Another summer of looking at other countries been more adventurous and us still locked up

I wouldn’t take any notice of that statement. So the pubs stay closed longer in the year that we have a vaccine. Not a chance...

PTH2009

https://twitter.com/MichealLehane/status/1350191082416562180?s=20

fin12

PTH2009 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/MichealLehane/status/1350191082416562180?s=20

That is actually f*cking hilarious... the foreign travelers not coming here, they haven’t stopped coming here. I’m just waiting this week for the Brazilian variant to be announced here no doubt as its prob easier to travel here from Brazil than to travel outside ur 5km

PTH2009

fin12 wrote: »

That is actually f*cking hilarious... the foreign travelers not coming here, they haven’t stopped coming here. I’m just waiting this week for the Brazilian variant to be announced here no doubt as its prob easier to travel here from Brazil than to travel outside ur 5km

No €100 fine for the Brazilians here to trace their ancestors and have that sweet pint of Guinness

Kunta Kinte

PTH2009 wrote: »

No €100 fine for the Brazilians here to trace their ancestors and have that sweet pint of Guinness

With no pubs open before mid summer at the earliest where exactly do you think all these Brazilians that are supposedly going to flood into the country going to have their pints of Guinness or anything else? Shebeens? House parties?

PommieBast

Deleted User wrote: »

Like if we open in early feb,chances are we will be in same position in terms of interaction by paddys day......push and sell the zero covid plan properly to the public to me,alongside an expanding vaccination programme.....should seriously be examined on an all island basis........this living with covid plan hasnt worked anywhere its been tried

The problem with the plan is that they never stuck to it. I think the way pubs were kept closed all summer was also a huge mistake because it made people think politics-as-usual and I have no doubt that the fritted-away goodwill was partly responsible for what happened in December.


Pubs, resturants, schools, the lot - with the numbers Ireland now has I don't really forsee anything opening before March.

PTH2009 wrote: »

That tweet saying possibly Wet pubs not open til Autumn is both scary and sobering

I've long stopped even thinking about them. Autumn looks optimistic.

Bobeagleburger

Will the pubs open this year?

Be nice to get a pint during the summer

fin12

6 wrote: »

Will the pubs open this year?

Be nice to get a pint during the summer

Yes they will.

GazzaL

Kunta Kinte wrote: »

With no pubs open before mid summer at the earliest where exactly do you think all these Brazilians that are supposedly going to flood into the country going to have their pints of Guinness or anything else? Shebeens? House parties?

I might put a few rooms up on Airbnb and bring a few of the Brazilians up to one of the local pubs that's doing takeaway pints.

doublejobbing 2

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

The decision to open restaurants and pubs serving food was a terrible mistake. The idea that pubs which didn't serve should be allowed to reopen was one of the most preposterous things I've ever had the misfortune of reading on this website. We didn't open them in Germany where we also have a strong pub culture, and we are still recording huge deaths each day. It would be catastrophic if we had made the decision to open them.

What are you on about? Bars re opened in parts of Germany around the same time that clown Harris was, without a shred of bother or concern on him, saying that he didn't foresee pubs re opening here before a vaccine came about. I remember well a spot on Euronews showing German football fans watching a match, albeit in a fairly empty looking bar (believe it was Dortmund from memory).

The Bundesliga resumed on May 16th so it was likely around then.

On May 18th we were at the stage of being allowed out of the house to meet 4 people, and building sites and retail could re open. Our controls were among the longest and most draconian in Europe.

doublejobbing 2

PTH2009 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/MichealLehane/status/1350191082416562180?s=20

Nothing against Lehane personally, but a few days before the opening of wet pubs was cancelled in August I seem to recall his sources tweeting that even nightclubs would be opened by the weekend. Or was he quoting Leo himself, I can't recall.


I think the situation is so fluid that I wouldn't read too much into either promises or doom mongering, whomever the source. Fact is I can't see how this nonsense can be justified any longer once the most at risk people are vaccinated, and that is scheduled for late March (all over 70's) and late June (all other somewhat vulnerable).

Although we are hitting "record" numbers, from memory our testing capacity was a disaster up until about late April/ May. We may well have been hitting these numbers in late March through April only the bulk of them went unnoticed. We took from lockdown in late March to start hitting reasonable numbers by early May.

Problem is there was more of a spirit of doing it for the public good. People, myself included, this time around really can't see the point in abiding by rules when the border remains wide open.