Opening of "No-Food" pubs pushed out again

El_Duderino 09

MOH wrote: »

...

I absolutely know the difference between pubs and schools, thanks. One sector has been blamed continuously for covid spread despite having never reopened after closing voluntarily last March. The other has been kept open at all costs regardless of the number of covid cases caused and the ultimate cost to the economy. (It's probably not important to you, but also regardless of the resulting deaths.)

You really should know all this stuff yourself. Why would you keep making arguments which pretend you don’t know it?

Yeah you say you understand the difference between pubs and schools. But you make no reference to your understanding and you ignore the difference i game in the post you quoted. So, since you seemed to miss the difference I highlighted, I’ll post it again:

“Pubs are non-essential, schools are not. Schools are essential because they allow parents to go to work and pay the mortgage while also keep it the broader economy going.

Schools will certainly spread the virus - any environment which brings people together indoors, will spread the virus. So keeping schools and workplaces open would mean clamping down harder in other areas to control the spread of the virus.”

I don’t blame pubs for having spread the virus as they were rightly closed for most of the relevant period. I credit the government for closing the pubs to prevent the spread - because pubs are non essential and are a good place to spread the virus. They took the right course of action in closing the pubs.

But they should compensate businesses for having to close. And by “they” I mean us. We will pay for compensating businesses through higher tax in the future. But that’s fair enough, it’s just the way it works.

Iteration1

The above is an argument well put forward, but I have an issue with the black and white of pubs being non-essential and schools being essential. If the reason you give above for schools being essential is to allow parent continue to work, then the same argument could be made for publicans or bar staff. People seem to have forgotten that schools are not supposed to be free babysitting services. If a couple rely on them for such to make their financial ends meet, then maybe they've over-extended themselves and should look to address that. If they don't have contingencies to bridge the gap during this crisis then they haven't done well at saving. Nobody wants to use their savings to get through such times, but people do not have a right to be compensated when hard times fall and feel no impact. Its up to yourself to plan for such.

PommieBast

Iteration1 wrote: »

The above is an argument well put forward, but I have an issue with the black and white of pubs being non-essential and schools being essential.

What grated me is how schools were regarded as "safe" when in reality it was always a balance between a potential infection vector and problems associated with kids not being in school.

Kunta Kinte

Fran has a bone wrote: »

Wet Pubs will be open well before Tourists are back. I don't imagine tourists will be arriving in significant numbers this year.

The 2 go hand in hand. Without any nightlife or hospitality most tourists would have no interest.

If you were off for holidays the cesspit of Ireland 2021 is the last place you'd go. Most people can't wait to escape this gutter.

You and a small handful of your buddies can hardly be called "most people".

Tenzor07

6 wrote: »

Will the pubs open this year? Be nice to get a pint during the summer

No, as in don't count on it... Summer pints in a non-food pub? Slim to no chance of that happening... at best maybe food pubs 15 outdoors unless Government overrule NPHET...so possibly Autumn restaurants will open with limited numbers... Think that's too pessimistic? Just look at last Summer, Low case numbers and no deaths but Pubs still closed, whereas in Europe they were open..

Tourist season will again have to rely on internal/domestic tourism.. Will be a very low level of international tourism with "Level 3 or 4" restrictions... What's here to come for? Nothing!

https://www.independent.ie/news/another-year-of-restrictions-ahead-until-everyone-has-been-vaccinated-says-dr-colm-henry-39975290.html

o1s1n

GazzaL wrote: »

It's a miserable ****hole. I'm looking forward to seeing how NPHET and Fáilte Ireland follow on from 2020s "**** Off" campaign.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

doublejobbing 2

Tenzor07 wrote: »

No, as in don't count on it... Summer pints in a non-food pub? Slim to no chance of that happening... at best maybe food pubs 15 outdoors unless Government overrule NPHET...so possibly Autumn restaurants will open with limited numbers... Think that's too pessimistic? Just look at last Summer, Low case numbers and no deaths but Pubs still closed, whereas in Europe they were open..

As loopy as it was to justify last year, how could they possibly keep them open beyond June, when all vulnerable groups are due to be vaccinated?

Or even beyond late March when the highest risk vulnerable are covered?

The mythical Long Covid in young people?

PTH2009

Tenzor07 wrote: »

No, as in don't count on it... Summer pints in a non-food pub? Slim to no chance of that happening... at best maybe food pubs 15 outdoors unless Government overrule NPHET...so possibly Autumn restaurants will open with limited numbers... Think that's too pessimistic? Just look at last Summer, Low case numbers and no deaths but Pubs still closed, whereas in Europe they were open..

Tourist season will again have to rely on internal/domestic tourism.. Will be a very low level of international tourism with "Level 3 or 4" restrictions... What's here to come for? Nothing!

https://www.independent.ie/news/another-year-of-restrictions-ahead-until-everyone-has-been-vaccinated-says-dr-colm-henry-39975290.html

Need a drink after reading that article

I'm not taking another year watching the rest of Europe go on about there business and us still locked up with the negative media and hysteria still rampant

dublin_paul

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

As loopy as it was to justify last year, how could they possibly keep them open beyond June, when all vulnerable groups are due to be vaccinated?

Or even beyond late March when the highest risk vulnerable are covered?

The mythical Long Covid in young people?

Long covid is clearly a real thing, you call it mythical?

cityboyjim

Once everybody over 55 and those under 55 with an illness are vaccinated we are ready to rock .By the 1st April there will be pints and lots of them .Pressure will be off the Hospitals and Nursing Homes and staff will be the clear .So what on earth can cause restrictions then Unless maybe there is an agenda to change the whole format of the hospitality sector .Maybe McDowells plan is back again ,Time will tell . .

GazzaL

cityboyjim wrote: »

Once everybody over 55 and those under 55 with an illness are vaccinated we are ready to rock .By the 1st April there will be pints and lots of them .Pressure will be off the Hospitals and Nursing Homes and staff will be the clear .So what on earth can cause restrictions then Unless maybe there is an agenda to change the whole format of the hospitality sector .Maybe McDowells plan is back again ,Time will tell . .

Just one case of COVID is too much! COVID lives matter! If we have to destroy a few million lives socially and economically to save a COVID life, it will be worth it.

cityboyjim

If every vulnerable person is vaccinated there should be no covid related deaths surely .

doublejobbing 2

dublin_paul wrote: »

Long covid is clearly a real thing, you call it mythical?

Not its existence, but its existential threat.

Some morons talk as if every year we don't have thousands of people suffering the long term effects of flu.

A cousin of mine was seriously ill in hospital with swine flu, he took months to get back to 100%.

The tiny proportion of people that suffer long term effects from this cannot justify our continued closure.

Just look at how many footballers have tested positive for Covid, I've yet to hear of any of them being out for more than a few weeks, let alone the condition effectively being a career ending injury.

PTH2009

cityboyjim wrote: »

Once everybody over 55 and those under 55 with an illness are vaccinated we are ready to rock .By the 1st April there will be pints and lots of them .Pressure will be off the Hospitals and Nursing Homes and staff will be the clear .So what on earth can cause restrictions then Unless maybe there is an agenda to change the whole format of the hospitality sector .Maybe McDowells plan is back again ,Time will tell . .

1st April pubs open ha . Thanks needed a laugh Its not called April fools day for nothing.

The goal posts will keep been moved and no other TD will stand up for the people and ask serious questions

cityboyjim

PTH2009 wrote: »

1st April pubs open ha . Thanks needed a laugh Its not called April fools day for nothing.

The goal posts will keep been moved and no other TD will stand up for the people and ask serious questions

Ok ha ha .Maybe the 1st May so .I know a few Publicans and they are actually not complaining about being closed for this lockdown but once this curve is flattened the pressure will be huge to get open again .Remember they were closed for months and there were no cases of any significance .Areas that are clear should be allowed open once this curve is flattened and the vulnerable are vaccinated .The rural TD s will be needing votes when this government falls .

hynesie08

cityboyjim wrote: »

Ok ha ha .Maybe the 1st May so .I know a few Publicans and they are actually not complaining about being closed for this lockdown but once this curve is flattened the pressure will be huge to get open again .Remember they were closed for months and there were no cases of any significance .Areas that are clear should be allowed open once this curve is flattened and the vulnerable are vaccinated .The rural TD s will be needing votes when this government falls .

Pressure from who? The vfi? The Publicans themselves? Why would they suddenly grow a spine after a year?

cityboyjim

Do you mean the VFI have no spine .We know the TDs have no spine .I just dont see how economically this can be sustained anyway .The revenue from shop drink has to be tiny compared to the money the government get from Pubs .Sure what tax take can there be from a 1 euro bottle of beer .

hynesie08

cityboyjim wrote: »

Do you mean the VFI have no spine .We know the TDs have no spine .I just dont see how economically this can be sustained anyway .The revenue from shop drink has to be tiny compared to the money the government get from Pubs .Sure what tax take can there be from a 1 euro bottle of beer .

Yes, the vfi have proven themselves (along with Failte ireland and the lva) to be utterly useless this past year, the only thing they achieved was getting the Christmas lights up....

L1011

cityboyjim wrote: »

Do you mean the VFI have no spine .We know the TDs have no spine .I just dont see how economically this can be sustained anyway .The revenue from shop drink has to be tiny compared to the money the government get from Pubs .Sure what tax take can there be from a 1 euro bottle of beer .

Duty is based on volume. This is the same whether the item is sold below cost, at cost or for any level of profit

VAT is based on the selling price; so they make more the dearer it is. But that €1 bottle is still giving ~60c to the state

PommieBast

PTH2009 wrote: »

Need a drink after reading that article

I'm not taking another year watching the rest of Europe go on about there business and us still locked up with the negative media and hysteria still rampant

For me the alarming bit is an admission that it will take until 2022 to complete vaccinations. Keeping the country under lockdown until that point is something I have long assumed was the real agenda.

cityboyjim

Well nobody knew it would last as long as it did .Any place a lot of people gathered there were spikes .If all Pubs had opened in a restricted and well controlled way lads wouldnt have needed to travel 20 miles for pints in over crowded badly ventilated bars with a slice of Piza to make it legal.Perhaps the VFI could have fought harder .All bars should have been open with restricted numbers of localised sensible people .Something that should happen as soon as this curve is flattened .

cityboyjim

L1011 wrote: »

Duty is based on volume. This is the same whether the item is sold below cost, at cost or for any level of profit

VAT is based on the selling price; so they make more the dearer it is. But that €1 bottle is still giving ~60c to the state

60 cent .What is the take when its sold in a bar for 5-50 then

doublejobbing 2

Tenzor07 wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/news/another-year-of-restrictions-ahead-until-everyone-has-been-vaccinated-says-dr-colm-henry-39975290.html

I completely missed this when it was posted earlier.

What exactly is this fella on?

The vaccine schedule has all over 70's and frontline healthcare staff vaccinated by late March.

All remaining vulnerable people by late June.

Why exactly do we need to be protected from something that by the looks of it is barely even noticeable in 90% plus of carriers who are not of a certain age and are healthy?

It was never done for swine flu or the common winter flu. What can possibly justify this?

Say what you want about Arlene Foster but she goes the way London goes, and they are a month ahead of us on the vaccines. When the UK had their initial tiers system IIRC pubs remained open with food service even at the highest tier- here we barely get that on the lowest one.

The government will be hard pressed to justify this going on if pubs are open in relative normality in the North, and Europe, and Israel, by March.


As a point of comparison, the governor of Michigan, who is pro lockdown, is already floating the idea of re opening hospitality this month. They are at a 14 day rate of 2800 per million by my count.

https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/gov-whitmer-says-covid-19-variant-post-holiday-data-will-determine-if-bars-restaurants-can-open-jan-15


edit- date now given as Feb 1st.

opinionated3

GazzaL wrote: »

It's a miserable ****hole. I'm looking forward to seeing how NPHET and Fáilte Ireland follow on from 2020s "**** Off" campaign.

In the Ireland we currently find ourselves in, I have to agree with you. This isn't living. Too many experts telling us now how to live our lives. They're making the conspiracy theorists actually sound like they're making sense. It's only a few months ago that we were told if the elderly, vulnerable and healthcare workers were vaccinated, then the country could open properly. Now we're listening to experts ( a new one seems to pop up in a daily basis at this stage) tell us that that's not feasible, we need to see how the vaccine works which could take a year, all you peasants stay on 350 a week. The doom and gloom is actually overwhelming at this stage.

Bobeagleburger

One good thing about the pandemic is the Vintners being put in their place a few times.

doublejobbing 2

opinionated3 wrote: »

In the Ireland we currently find ourselves in, I have to agree with you. This isn't living. Too many experts telling us now how to live our lives. .

When various people tell you there has been some advantage to all this, that Covid has given us insight into a better way of doing things, you know there is something up.

There is no advantage to any of this, bar less traffic in rush hour. Anyone seeking to adapt any of this as new normal needs sectioning.

bunny_

I usually don't eat at pubs only snacks maybe.

SteM

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

When various people tell you there has been some advantage to all this, that Covid has given us insight into a better way of doing things, you know there is something up.

There is no advantage to any of this, bar less traffic in rush hour. Anyone seeking to adapt any of this as new normal needs sectioning.

I know people that are actually getting more exercise now that they have for years. I know people that are reading more, learning online etc. They don't need to be sectioned for continuing that when things go back to normal do they?

doublejobbing 2

SteM wrote: »

I know people that are actually getting more exercise now that they have for years. I know people that are reading more, learning online etc. They don't need to be sectioned for continuing that when things go back to normal do they?

I'm not talking about individuals.

I'm talking about Green Party arseholes who tried to use Covid to bring in 30km speed limits in Dublin. Who are trying to all but seal off the Phoenix Park to traffic.

One NPHET member said that the current period formed a perfect opportunity to review Ireland's relationship with the pub.

These people want us to go European.

cityboyjim

6 wrote: »

One good thing about the pandemic is the Vintners being put in their place a few times.

But are they really or are they being led down a garden path to obscurity .Think about it