Opening of "No-Food" pubs pushed out again

Tenzor07

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The virus isn't different, the people, culture and behaviour can be different from region to region and country to country. This is another thing you need to ignore to maintain your position. you quoted the following text, but you clearly didn't read it.

Sorry, I don't buy that BS that the Irish are somehow a special breed when it comes to the relationship with alcohol!
People are people, and may surprise you but most Irish citizens can behave themselves well around Alcohol, so it's time to cut the stereotype and not keep the pubs closed because of it...
As I've said... All through the Summer I've visited bars all over Europe while case numbers were low yet Irish bars were shut..

Tenzor07

IAMAMORON wrote: »

He is just trying to do the tight thing.
Pubs are closed on mainland Europe and in the UK for months now also.
At the end of the day why take the risk? I get that pubs have taking a beating, possibly unfairly. But at the end of the day I doubt he is rubbing his hands over his advice to shut them down. As much as they have been used as a blame hound for outbreaks it cannot be refuted that they would not be an issue if allowed to stay open. I miss them too.

"Doing the right thing" and following science aren't the same thing...

Pubs are NOW closed, however were all open with restrictions while Irish bars were shutdown...maybe science changes once it crosses the Irish sea?

El_Duderino 09

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Sorry, I don't buy that BS that the Irish are somehow a special breed when it comes to the relationship with alcohol!
People are people, and may surprise you but most Irish citizens can behave themselves well around Alcohol, so it's time to cut the stereotype and not keep the pubs closed because of it...
As I've said... All through the Summer I've visited bars all over Europe while case numbers were low yet Irish bars were shut..

Humm. I didn't mention "that BS that the Irish are somehow a special breed when it comes to the relationship with alcohol!". I did however say that the Irish pub is different to other pubs in other countries. It's more intimate, and better, in my opinion. And the way our culture is mean we spend time in pubs in different ways to people in other countries. I also said that a one size fits all solution isn't sensible.

Do you understand the point now?
Do you think the Irish pub is the same as the typical continental pub?
Do you think a one size fits all solution is what's needed?

Irish Steve

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Humm. I didn't mention "that BS that the Irish are somehow a special breed when it comes to the relationship with alcohol!". I did however say that the Irish pub is different to other pubs in other countries. It's more intimate, and better, in my opinion. And the way our culture is mean we spend time in pubs in different ways to people in other countries. I also said that a one size fits all solution isn't sensible.

Do you understand the point now?
Do you think the Irish pub is the same as the typical continental pub?
Do you think a one size fits all solution is what's needed?

Find me a pub in Europe or the UK that's still serving pints by the trayfull 2 or 3 hours after closing time.

There is a clear lack of respect for the effects of alcohol, and when that happens, respect for the clear limitations regarding Covid that are supposed to be in place also becomes at best strained, and often ignored. When the pub does then close, what happens? The crowds head for the nearest chipper for whatever is still being served, and things like 2 metre separation goes by the board, everybody is too happy to even think about it, let alone care.

A significant number of pubs here ARE very different to European and UK pubs, because they operate in a completely different manner to them, especially where things like opening hours, and other restrictions are concerned.

We saw it last summer, the number of wet pubs that were very creative in how they sought to get round the rules that were there to prevent them opening, the manner in which they ducked and weaved to not have food in the manner prescribed, there were plenty of examples, and some of them have now paid the price by having their licence renewal refused after objections from the Gardai. Some of those same pubs were also responsible for super spreader events that resulted in massive spikes in Covid cases in their locality.

I think that's pretty clear.

Yes, keeping people at work and keeping schools open has an effect on the number of Covid cases, and rightly or wrongly, the relevant people who have to decide how to manage Covid have decided that activities that are not essential may be closed if Covid cases go above a level where they pose a threat to the health service.

I don't think that outside of this very thinly populated thread you will find many people pushing for wet pubs (or ANY pubs) to be reopened at the moment, as they have seen only too clearly just how much pressure is on the health service this month, and that's with a lot of the economy closed, and the schools closed as well, in common with much of Europe.

The longer the pubs and hospitality trade are kept closed the more shebeens and home bars are going to open up.And then there is the issue when the evenings get longer over the next few weeks and months you are going to get groups of people drinking in peoples gardens and public parks etc

haskellgeek

Irish Steve wrote: »

Find me a pub in Europe or the UK that's still serving pints by the trayfull 2 or 3 hours after closing time.

There is a clear lack of respect for the effects of alcohol, and when that happens, respect for the clear limitations regarding Covid that are supposed to be in place also becomes at best strained, and often ignored. When the pub does then close, what happens? The crowds head for the nearest chipper for whatever is still being served, and things like 2 metre separation goes by the board, everybody is too happy to even think about it, let alone care.

A significant number of pubs here ARE very different to European and UK pubs, because they operate in a completely different manner to them, especially where things like opening hours, and other restrictions are concerned.

We saw it last summer, the number of wet pubs that were very creative in how they sought to get round the rules that were there to prevent them opening, the manner in which they ducked and weaved to not have food in the manner prescribed, there were plenty of examples, and some of them have now paid the price by having their licence renewal refused after objections from the Gardai. Some of those same pubs were also responsible for super spreader events that resulted in massive spikes in Covid cases in their locality.

I think that's pretty clear.

Yes, keeping people at work and keeping schools open has an effect on the number of Covid cases, and rightly or wrongly, the relevant people who have to decide how to manage Covid have decided that activities that are not essential may be closed if Covid cases go above a level where they pose a threat to the health service.

I don't think that outside of this very thinly populated thread you will find many people pushing for wet pubs (or ANY pubs) to be reopened at the moment, as they have seen only too clearly just how much pressure is on the health service this month, and that's with a lot of the economy closed, and the schools closed as well, in common with much of Europe.

Pubs can close at 4am in the uk without much difficulty clubs and some pubs get licensed until 6am there too. Also they have 24hr off licences. So yeah if you want to compare our closing hours vs thers they'd still be serving trays well past our closing times. Spain too has very late closing times

PTH2009

Deleted User wrote: »

The longer the pubs and hospitality trade are kept closed the more shebeens and home bars are going to open up.And then there is the issue when the evenings get longer over the next few weeks and months you are going to get groups of people drinking in peoples gardens and public parks etc

We all know the senior figures in the hospitality industry will keep quiet esp when there getting 'supports' which is almost a bride to keep shut. Id say a few publicans are prob better off atm esp getting the supports and PUP. They should be kicking up stink about the closures and demand they open fully for the summer

Id reckon the government are cautious about permitting the 15 max outside rule for the summer. What a farce that was for the few weeks it was implemented in Sep/Oct last year

Next few weeks will be interesting

tom1ie

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Sorry, I don't buy that BS that the Irish are somehow a special breed when it comes to the relationship with alcohol!
People are people, and may surprise you but most Irish citizens can behave themselves well around Alcohol, so it's time to cut the stereotype and not keep the pubs closed because of it...
As I've said... All through the Summer I've visited bars all over Europe while case numbers were low yet Irish bars were shut..

so it’s you spreading this damn virus all over Europe!!

But seriously, I can’t see how pubs can open at the minute.
Sure we can’t even get schools open, numbers are just too high.

Tenzor07

tom1ie wrote: »

But seriously, I can’t see how pubs can open at the minute. Sure we can’t even get schools open, numbers are just too high.

I was referring to the Summer... when Irish bars were closed, yet you could hop on a flight to say Germany...Scotland...Spain... etc.. and get a pint...

Currently of course case numbers are quite high across Europe this Winter, however I'm sure as we approach the Summer cases will drop, however it looks like being a case of if you want a pint then you have to travel outside of Ireland.

bucketybuck

tom1ie wrote: »

Sure we can’t even get schools open, numbers are just too high.

I don't think anybody has an issue closing pubs when the numbers are high.

Just don't move the ****ing goalposts when the numbers are low.

HBC08

I think its safe to say a lot of posts in this thread havent aged well.

vafankillar

PTH2009 wrote: »

Id reckon the government are cautious about permitting the 15 max outside rule for the summer. What a farce that was for the few weeks it was implemented in Sep/Oct last year

Next few weeks will be interesting

how was it a farce? it was incredibly safe and gave a lot of people an option to drink / socislize without going near a house. i get if it's not your thing, but I felt much more comfortable doing that then going near a pub in december with inside dining.

PTH2009

vafankillar wrote: »

how was it a farce? it was incredibly safe and gave a lot of people an option to drink / socislize without going near a house. i get if it's not your thing, but I felt much more comfortable doing that then going near a pub in december with inside dining.

Wasant a fan of it because it was simply too hard to find somewhere even in Waterford City. A lot places didnt open, a lot of places were always full no matter what time of the day/night you went in and simply a bit of a miserable experience

Tenzor07

PTH2009 wrote: »

Wasant a fan of it because it was simply too hard to find somewhere even in Waterford City. A lot places didnt open, a lot of places were always full no matter what time of the day/night you went in and simply a bit of a miserable experience

Thought you may have said it was a joke to think a business could make a living on 15 customers having a few pints...

weldoninhio

IAMAMORON wrote: »

He is just trying to do the tight thing.

Pubs are closed on mainland Europe and in the UK for months now also.

At the end of the day why take the risk? I get that pubs have taking a beating, possibly unfairly. But at the end of the day I doubt he is rubbing his hands over his advice to shut them down. As much as they have been used as a blame hound for outbreaks it cannot be refuted that they would not be an issue if allowed to stay open.

I miss them too.

Why risk flying hundreds of delegates in from all over for an anti-alcohol conference??

Irish Steve

weldoninhio wrote: »

Why risk flying hundreds of delegates in from all over for an anti-alcohol conference??

This was 12 months ago, and there were no travel restrictions at the time, I know we're noting the first anniversary of Covid's arrival, but it really is time to move on if you want to have any credibility going forward.

bucketybuck

Irish Steve wrote: »

This was 12 months ago, and there were no travel restrictions at the time, I know we're noting the first anniversary of Covid's arrival, but it really is time to move on if you want to have any credibility going forward.

"Please move on, nothing to see here".

How convenient.

MOH

Irish Steve wrote: »

This was 12 months ago, and there were no travel restrictions at the time, I know we're noting the first anniversary of Covid's arrival, but it really is time to move on if you want to have any credibility going forward.

There were no real travel restrictions here until last week, which is one of the main reasons we're in the current state.
If we'd had a properly enforced quarantine for arrivals, we wouldn't have a large proportion of the 60%+ of UK-variant cases we now have (obviously travel from/via the North would still have brought some in, but no reason not to do what you can to mitigate the issue).

It's not even like we didn't have adequate warning of this. In autumn something like 50% of cases were estimated to be a variant that arose in Spain during the summer.

But our response is to do nothing, insist travel isn't an issue, and wait until after we're the worst in the world to belatedly introduce a negative test requirement. Only people lacking credibility are the government and those still believing their desperate attempts to cover their asses.

El_Duderino 09

PTH2009 wrote: »

We all know the senior figures in the hospitality industry will keep quiet esp when there getting 'supports' which is almost a bride to keep shut. Id say a few publicans are prob better off atm esp getting the supports and PUP. They should be kicking up stink about the closures and demand they open fully for the summer

Of course the payments to businesses are a "bribe", payoff, settlement, incentive, aid, support to help businesses whop can't open. There might be a few small pubs who are actually better off with the PUP payment than opening. But i also imagine they're less influential because they're small in number and power within the lobby group. The vast majority of pubs would prefer to be open but even they must know it's not a runner at the moment because of the realities of the pandemic.

I completely support the government borrowing money to support businesses through the pandemic (bribing them, as you phrased it). We will be paying additional tax for the rest of our lives to pay back the money borrowed last year and this year, but that's the right thing to do.

El_Duderino 09

HBC08 wrote: »

I think its safe to say a lot of posts in this thread havent aged well.

The ones in November and December calling for pubs to reopen fully for Christmas, come to mind.

The calls to reopen fully once the vulnerable and the over 70s are vaccinated are next on the list.

bucketybuck

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The ones in November and December calling for pubs to reopen fully for Christmas, come to mind.

The calls to reopen fully once the vulnerable and the over 70s are vaccinated are next on the list.

Actually the call was to reopen fully when the death toll drops to minimal, which if the vaccine works, will happen when the vulnerable are vaccinated.

Instead of spamming the thread you might consider actually reading what people are saying.

El_Duderino 09

bucketybuck wrote: »

Actually the call was to reopen fully when the death toll drops to minimal, which if the vaccine works, will happen when the vulnerable are vaccinated.

Instead of spamming the thread you might consider actually reading what people are saying.

There have been a range of calls from various posters involving varying degrees of fantasy. You're not the only poster on the thread.

Tenzor07

bucketybuck wrote: »

Actually the call was to reopen fully when the death toll drops to minimal, which if the vaccine works, will happen when the vulnerable are vaccinated.

Instead of spamming the thread you might consider actually reading what people are saying.

Don't you realise that the key to the entire battle against the Virus is to keep the Pubs closed until 2025 after 2 years of zero new covid cases?

bucketybuck

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

You're not the only poster on the thread.

How ironic.

El_Duderino 09

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Don't you realise that the key to the entire battle against the Virus is to keep the Pubs closed until 2025 after 2 years of zero new covid cases?

Who said this?

Tenzor07

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Who said this?

Didn't you say this, I went through your 250,000++ posts on the" Opening of "No-Food" pubs pushed out again" .... maybe my eyes got tired after 235,000 previous replies.... :rolleyes:

El_Duderino 09

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Didn't you say this, I went through your 250,000++ posts on the" Opening of "No-Food" pubs pushed out again" .... maybe my eyes got tired after 235,000 previous replies.... :rolleyes:

Ah. So you made it up. Ok

CIARAN_BOYLE

PTH2009 wrote: »

Wasant a fan of it because it was simply too hard to find somewhere even in Waterford City. A lot places didnt open, a lot of places were always full no matter what time of the day/night you went in and simply a bit of a miserable experience

But was it better that staying closed?

That's the question people will need to ask before calling it a farce. If it's a farce then pubs would stay closed longer.

helimachoptor

Deleted User wrote: »

The longer the pubs and hospitality trade are kept closed the more shebeens and home bars are going to open up.And then there is the issue when the evenings get longer over the next few weeks and months you are going to get groups of people drinking in peoples gardens and public parks etc

I agree, i know a lot of people including myself on the hunt for bar equipment.

The brother in law lives in Mayo, he's converted a garage into a pub basically, guinness, rockshore, heinken on tap, big fridge, pool table, dart board. He's not having 50 people over every weekend, but odd friday night 3/4 of his friends come up for a few drinks. the town he's in hasn't had an open pub since March last year.

There's a lot of people in the village that have the space and are proper shebeens.

I looked into a small set up for Guinness for a garden room we have, but tbh i don't drink enough to make it worthwhile.

El_Duderino 09

helimachoptor wrote: »

I agree, i know a lot of people including myself on the hunt for bar equipment.

The brother in law lives in Mayo, he's converted a garage into a pub basically, guinness, rockshore, heinken on tap, big fridge, pool table, dart board. He's not having 50 people over every weekend, but odd friday night 3/4 of his friends come up for a few drinks. the town he's in hasn't had an open pub since March last year.

There's a lot of people in the village that have the space and are proper shebeens.

I looked into a small set up for Guinness for a garden room we have, but tbh i don't drink enough to make it worthwhile.

Yeah you’ll always get some people who will break the rules. They’ll go beyond the rules no matter what the rules are. And you’ll have some people who would be normal pub patrons who will also use shebeens.

But it’s a tiny fraction of the people who were out in pubs and gathering to drink outside pubs. Pubs are closed, in the short term, for good reason. The fact that some people will break the rules and go to a shebeen, doesn’t mean they should open the pubs at the moment.