Opening of "No-Food" pubs pushed out again

gifted

I'd be delighted if they didn't open......pub owners all of a sudden saying they're spending thousands on precautions and the likes, saying they'll look after the people going into pubs....the same pub owners who didn't think twice in serving pints to people if they sat in their pub all day not giving a ****e what happened to them when they staggered out of their pub at closing time.......

Leftwaffe

gifted wrote: »

I'd be delighted if they didn't open......pub owners all of a sudden saying they're spending thousands on precautions and the likes, saying they'll look after the people going into pubs....the same pub owners who didn't think twice in serving pints to people if they sat in their pub all day not giving a ****e what happened to them when they staggered out of their pub at closing time.......

I don't know where to start with this.

drunkmonkey

gifted wrote: »

I'd be delighted if they didn't open......pub owners all of a sudden saying they're spending thousands on precautions and the likes, saying they'll look after the people going into pubs....the same pub owners who didn't think twice in serving pints to people if they sat in their pub all day not giving a ****e what happened to them when they staggered out of their pub at closing time.......

Maybe in your local but I've never been stuck for a lift home from any of my locals.
Another reason rural and city/large town pubs should be differentiated between.

kenmc

murpho999 wrote: »

I cannot understand why people do not understand the ruling about food. It's very simple.

Pubs were not allowed to open in July but restaurants were and they could serve alcohol with the food.

Publicans kicked up and said it was unfair as many pubs served food.

Therefore they said that "pubs" could open if they served food and operated as a restaurant.
The €9 meal is an arbitrary figure picked to differentiate a meal from a packet of crisps or a bowl of chicken wings. (Why does everybody just associate pub food as chicken wings or pizza?).
A time is allowed for the meal to be eaten.

It's not that they're saying a meal prevents Covid or is healthier, it's just that technically there's no pubs open now just restaurants.

I enjoy a pub but no real interest in going with restrictions such as distancing , table service etc. I go to relax and enjoy myself and not worry about viruses so I'd imagine I'll most likely avoid pubs , even if opened fully, until things become more normal.

People boasting about their feed of pints etc is a bit strange and sad in my opinion.

Exactly. Publicans and vintner federations started whinging that they weren't allowed to open up, but restaurants were, so the ones that could operate as restaurants, and did so in the past, were allowed to. But now the rest of the fcukers are whinging that they want to open also, despite their existence being entirely dedicated to selling alcohol, as much of it as they can, and blathering on about how "responsible" they are and how much they care for their customers. Because no-one has ever been served too much alcohol in a pub, that they fall down, or puke everywhere, or try to drive home locked. Yeah right.

joeguevara

kenmc wrote: »

Exactly. Publicans and vintner federations started whinging that they weren't allowed to open up, but restaurants were, so the ones that could operate as restaurants, and did so in the past, were allowed to. But now the rest of the fcukers are whinging that they want to open also, despite their existence being entirely dedicated to selling alcohol, as much of it as they can, and blathering on about how "responsible" they are and how much they care for their customers. Because no-one has ever been served too much alcohol in a pub, that they fall down, or puke everywhere, or try to drive home locked. Yeah right.

You made an error in the post with 'and did so in the past' point. It didn't matter if you served food in the past or not, if you are serving a substantial meal now then you can open.

gifted

gifted wrote: »

I'd be delighted if they didn't open......pub owners all of a sudden saying they're spending thousands on precautions and the likes, saying they'll look after the people going into pubs....the same pub owners who didn't think twice in serving pints to people if they sat in their pub all day not giving a ****e what happened to them when they staggered out of their pub at closing time.......

This is how business works...

Would you go to Penney's and expect them to stop selling you clothes because you are buying too many?

Pubs sell drink. They'll serve you as long as you are well behaved and not in a state. (which is probably 99% of customers)

I don't understand how people can have such a hatred for pubs. If YOU don't like them, just don't f*cking go!

murpho999

joeguevara wrote: »

The reason is this. If you have food in front of you and have to eat that, you cant have as many alcoholic drinks as if you didn't in the timeframe, as it takes time to eat a substantial meal. Because of that, you won't get as inebriated and start to do things that you wouldn't do (i.e. go talk to people, instigate more contact,) also, much less likely to pick up your plate of a roast dinner or a lasagne and bring it over to the fella you haven't seen in 20 years but you would probably would if you only had a pint glass.

So to answer your question, if food was taken out of the equation and all other things being equal, then there would be no issue. But food takes all of the increased risks that I outlined above or at least decreases them to a level that is found acceptable.

This is incorrect but seems to be doing the rounds. You're thinking back to the old days when night clubs had to serve a "meal" to be open late.

The reason as stated earlier is that the "pub" is not open as a pub but a restaurant and people are there for food, that may be served with or without alcohol and not just there to skull pints.

It's as simple as that but many people just don't get it or simply refuse to do so.

kenmc

joeguevara wrote: »

You made an error in the post with 'and did so in the past' point. It didn't matter if you served food in the past or not, if you are serving a substantial meal now then you can open.

Im pretty sure that initially it was supposed to be if you already operate as a restaurant. Some hastily added a menu to fit the criteria, and no application was needed to get a restaurant licence, not sure if that was a blind eye, loophole, or decision to prevent a flood of paperwork

drunkmonkey

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't understand how people can have such a hatred for pubs. If YOU don't like them, just don't f*cking go!

Well said, if your afraid or just don't want to, stay the f*ck at home and let the rest of us get on with life.

joeguevara

murpho999 wrote: »

This is incorrect but seems to be doing the rounds. You're thinking back to the old days when night clubs had to serve a "meal" to be open late.

The reason as stated earlier is that the "pub" is not open as a pub but a restaurant and people are there for food, that may be served with or without alcohol and not just there to skull pints.

It's as simple as that but many people just don't get it or simply refuse to do so.

That is exactly what I said - less likely to skull pints if there is a substantial meal to eat. And what is the reason why they don't want them to skull pints - more chance of inebriation which increase possibility of breaching social distancing rules. Jaysus - is this really that difficult to comprehend and join the dots?

They are talking about closing the pubs again in the UK when the schools re-open to limit the social interaction points

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-national-priority-to-get-children-back-to-school-but-scientists-warn-it-could-require-trade-offs-12040408

education and mental health of children and parents put ahead of boozers shocker!

could well be the same issue in Ireland.

rubadub

murpho999 wrote: »

The €9 meal is an arbitrary figure picked to differentiate a meal from a packet of crisps or a bowl of chicken wings..

and this figure was picked back in 2003 for the restaurant rules, if implemented today it would likely be higher.


http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2003/si/442/made/en/print

2. This Order shall come into operation on 29 September 2003.

3. The sum of €9.00 is fixed for the purposes of section 9 (1) of the Intoxicating Liquor Act 1962 .

the meal is such as might be expected to be served as a main midday or main evening meal or as a main course at either such meal,

We are not the only country to have laws for food & alcohol before covid.

And now in the US several states have brought it in too.

rubadub wrote: »

There are food requirements in New York.

https://eu.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/politics/albany/2020/07/17/bars-new-york-need-sell-food-serve-booze-what-know/5458017002/

I would not be surprised if there are elsewhere as other countries already had existing laws relating to food being needed with alcohol. The laws here have been in place for over 50years.


Cuomo suspends liquor licenses for 12 NYC bars over 'egregious' COVID-19 violations

The violations in the 12 bars included a lack of social distancing, inadequate spreading out of tables, a lack of facial coverings among customers and employees, failure to sell food with alcohol as required and extending outdoor service beyond the city’s 11 p.m. curfew.

EDIT: found another

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8550183/California-lists-foods-arent-meals-COVID-dining-guidelines.html

California's Alcoholic Beverage Control agency has issued guidelines on what constitutes as a 'meal'
It comes after Governor Gavin Newsom reversed reopening measures last month by ordering all bars to shut
While bars are closed, restaurants can still offer outdoor dining across the state
Cheese sticks, fried calamari, chicken wings, pizza bites, egg rolls and pot stickers do not count as meals, according to the list

https://www.aarp.org/politics-society/government-elections/info-2020/coronavirus-state-restrictions.html

Michigan: Whitmer also ordered bars in most regions to stop indoor service because of the rise in coronavirus cases. The mandate applies to food establishments that earn more than 70 percent of their gross receipts from alcohol sales

Florida: As cases spiked in the state, Halsey Beshears, secretary of the Department of Business and Professional Regulation, on June 26 ordered bars that derive more than 50 percent of their sales from alcohol to stop selling alcohol for on-premises consumption

kenmc

Of course there's no obligation to actually eat said meal if your goal is to just drink as much as you can. Lots of starters would be circa 9 euro also, wouldn't make much of a dent in the drinking pace if a couple of spring rolls or chicken satay skewers was ordered.

The 9 euro meal is not to fill your belly and stop you from drinking too much - it's been previously defined as the cost of what a "substantial meal" is, to give a definition to pubs which can operate as a restaurant.

py2006

A lot of pubs (serving food) have been acting as normal pubs since they reopened and there doesn't seem to be a massive increase in cases from it?

I don't think reopening non food ones are going to make a huge difference either. Especially rural and suburban ones. All you need is seating only and no standing.

I am sure this has all been said already so sorry for rehashing the same argument.

PErhaps if it was made a child free zone?

Neowise

glasso wrote: »

They are talking about closing the pubs again in the UK when the schools re-open to limit the social interaction points

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-national-priority-to-get-children-back-to-school-but-scientists-warn-it-could-require-trade-offs-12040408

education and mental health of children and parents put ahead of boozers shocker!

could well be the same issue in Ireland.

They can't close what they never allowed to re-open.


Also, we shouldn't be taking cues from the 3rd worst country by 'deaths per million population' in the world, only beaten by san marino and belgium.

Oranage2

Irish people really need other hobbies besides the 'pub', it seems all leisure time and social aspects revolve around alcohol and it's not healthy.

murpho999

joeguevara wrote: »

That is exactly what I said - less likely to skull pints if there is a substantial meal to eat. And what is the reason why they don't want them to skull pints - more chance of inebriation which increase possibility of breaching social distancing rules. Jaysus - is this really that difficult to comprehend and join the dots?

No it's not the same.

You're implying that the allowed pubs to open once they served food as that will help people from getting drunk and breaking social distancing etc.

That's not it at all.

The "pub" is open as a restaurant people are going to it for a meal and may have a drink with it and must leave within 105 minutes

The meal is not there to slow down pints. Big difference.
Technically no pubs in the country are open.

murpho999

Oranage2 wrote: »

Irish people really need other hobbies besides the 'pub', it seems all leisure time and social aspects revolve around alcohol and it's not healthy.

This is very true and probably not a debate in other countries.

py2006

Oranage2 wrote: »

Irish people really need other hobbies besides the 'pub', it seems all leisure time and social aspects revolve around alcohol and it's not healthy.

Not everyone drinks and not every one that does drinks excessively. Also for some people (especially retired people) its a very important part of their social lives and mental health.

joeguevara

murpho999 wrote: »

No it's not the same.

You're implying that the allowed pubs to open once they served food as that will help people getting drunk and breaking social distancing etc.

That's not it at all.

The "pub" is open as a restaurant people are going to it for a meal and may have a drink with it and must leave within 105 minutes

The meal is not there to slow down pints. Big difference.
Technically no pubs in the country are open.

And why were pubs allowed to be classified as restaurants and even allowed an exemption for pubs who didn't have restaurant certificates allowed act as restaurants and pubs that didn't serve a substantial meal not? Was there a sudden requirement for thousands of extra 'restaurants' to serve heated up frozen food? I still cant believe that there are people who don't actually understand this reason.

Oranage2

py2006 wrote: »

Not everyone drinks and not every one that does drinks excessively. Also for some people (especially retired people) its a very important part of their social lives and mental health.

Maybe they could try something else like fishing or bowling

average_runner

The concern is that many of the cases are now in the under 40 group. This would be the main group drinking in a pub on a sat night.

So maybe when we get that house in order we can reopen the pubs, but that is up to the under 40 group

Oranage2

Oranage2 wrote: »

Irish people really need other hobbies besides the 'pub', it seems all leisure time and social aspects revolve around alcohol and it's not healthy.

Why do you care what other people do? If YOU don't like it, just don't go.

briany

Oranage2 wrote: »

Maybe they could try something else like fishing or bowling

For better or worse, Irish life has been centered around the pub for a long, long time now. Not even necessarily because the Irish love to get tanked, but a pub is a public house, and not just a place to drink, but more importantly a place where people go to meet. Could they meet in other places? Sure, but that would sort of defeat the purpose of keeping pubs closed to begin with...

stephenjmcd

average_runner wrote: »

The concern is that many of the cases are now in the under 40 group. This would be the main group drinking in a pub on a sat night.

So maybe when we get that house in order we can reopen the pubs, but that is up to the under 40 group

Well when the clusters are being linked to meat factories and dog food plants then spreading to direct provision centres its the HSA that need to get their arse into gear inspecting those factories at random and not telling them in advance when they're coming which is what they've been doing.

As for pubs, if they don't open as 'pubs' house parties just continue as they have been throughout in much larger numbers than 'normal'. Keep one business closed which leads to an increase in another thing that they don't want ?

Van.Bosch

average_runner wrote: »

The concern is that many of the cases are now in the under 40 group. This would be the main group drinking in a pub on a sat night.

So maybe when we get that house in order we can reopen the pubs, but that is up to the under 40 group

True but in the absence of pubs they will have house parties, so tough call. I don’t see why they can’t open with the same restrictions as food serving pubs today

Oranage2

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Why do you care what other people do? If YOU don't like it, just don't go.

So when Hitler was taking over Europe people should just mind their own business?

It's a social problem and I believe it needs changing.

average_runner

Deleted User wrote: »

Why do you care what other people do? If YOU don't like it, just don't go.

Yes and no.


If you looked at the no side of it, there is many a good reason for a person to care
1) Random fights breaking out due to drunk people
2) Drain on hospital resources (visit an A&E on a sat night)
3) Damage to families when a love one comes home drunk and violent
4) Drink Driving.


The benefits of pubs are out weight by our behavior.


Hopefully some generation will get it right and the balance right, i know my generation didn't.

average_runner

Van.Bosch wrote: »

True but in the absence of pubs they will have house parties, so tough call. I don’t see why they can’t open with the same restrictions as food serving pubs today

Yep. But if only pubs open and close at 1130 on a Sat night, then you will have more house parties and more random people from a pub at it.

ziggyman17

Oranage2 wrote: »

So when Hitler was taking over Europe people should just mind their own business?

It's a social problem and I believe it needs changing.

Comparing Hitler taking over Europe to Irish people and their social habits..:D