Opening of "No-Food" pubs pushed out again

pgj2015

hmmm wrote: »

I expect it's simply to stop several hours of messy drinking with the consequent loss of social distancing. And no-one goes out for food at 11pm, so shouldn't be a problem for pubs which are adhering to the table time limits.

Don't be surprised if they cut it to 10 pm then 9 pm. i cant understand why all pubs don't just start serving food or buying it from places that do.

did micheal martin say pubs mightn't open here until 2021?

afro man

joeguevara wrote: »

You do know that pubs who serve food are still open. But here’s a thought, a holiday doesn’t mean that you have to be in the hotel bar for the day with the kids.

Joequevara..
Jesus I never knew that...,, u do know that some people like to go away walk around towns etc and don't want to be forced to pay 30-40 euro in a pub or hotel for a pint or two or even lemonade and then forced to leave after 105 mins.. Some parents after a busy day with the kids out n about also would just like option to chill out at bedtime with a beer or two.. Here's another thought all my kids are over 18 so holiday in hotel bar for the day is no issue

SusieBlue

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Numbers visiting are down about 95%, all these flights arent full, far from it, going on anecdotal evidence. Now i agree with you that we should be stricter on tourists from hot spots but the idea that planeloads of americans are landing every day juts isnt the case

I don’t believe for only minute that there are over 100+ almost empty flights coming in and out every day.
With that sheer volume of traffic, they cannot possibly all be travelling for essential reasons either.
Even if only a quarter of incoming passengers on these incoming flights are tourists, that’s still too many.
If tomorrow’s daily average carries over for the rest of the week, that’s almost 800 incoming flights this week in one airport alone.
That’s absolutely nonsensical when we are still in the midst of a pandemic.

Nobody should be travelling in or out for non essential purposes while industries are forced to remain closed by the government.
It completely defeats the purpose when there are people coming in and out who aren’t quarantining and observing the guidelines.
Why should pubs remain closed when someone coming here to holiday can swan around as they please, potentially spreading the virus all over.

joeguevara

afro man wrote: »

Joequevara..
Jesus I never knew that...,, u do know that some people like to go away walk around towns etc and don't want to be forced to pay 30-40 euro in a pub or hotel for a pint or two or even lemonade and then forced to leave after 105 mins.. Some parents after a busy day with the kids out n about also would just like option to chill out at bedtime with a beer or two.. Here's another thought all my kids are over 18 so holiday in hotel bar for the day is no issue

Why did you write exactly the same response At 20.37 to the post I had replied to at 20.30.

AVFC.Stephen

Many locals will team up with the local chipper now... expand beer gardens if they have no space.... my local has already said they will get food in if it means keeping there loyal customers. I still dont understand sitting in a bookies is fine but if you have a pint you better have a toasted cheese beside you

Itssoeasy

Well I feel sorry for the owners and staff of my local and other pubs in my area who are all good people and hopefully the government will do the right thing and support the pubs because they closed on the advice of government and are still closed so I think it's only fair. I mean I joked to someone I know who I'd normally see on a Saturday night in my local that there might not be much change out of this side of Christmas before we can be back there. I didn't think it might be true. I can't see them opening after August 31st. Also, several pubs in my area are open and might be technically serving food but I'd say it's barely in the spirit of the law.

KaneToad

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

What does closing restaurants at 11pm actually achieve, COVID-wise? Seems like a cynical move to shoehorn a puritanical "national bedtime" in with legitimate pandemic containment measures to me. I absolutely agree with delaying phase four and with the others measures which have been taken, but this one makes no sense unless it's merely a social engineering move dressed up as a COVID measure.

Less drinking time. Less time to over consume. Less risk of reduced inhibitions. More chance of adhering to social distance regs.

It's the same reasoning behind forcing people to eat a substantial meal.

Tenzor07

SusieBlue wrote: »

Nobody should be travelling in or out for non essential purposes while industries are forced to remain closed by the government.
It completely defeats the purpose when there are people coming in and out who aren’t quarantining and observing the guidelines.
Why should pubs remain closed when someone coming here to holiday can swan around as they please, potentially spreading the virus all over.

People are fed up not being allowed to meet a friend for a beer.. To stay at a hotel/restaurant/pub after 11pm... With sitting outside wearing a rain jacket in the wind and rain.

How do you know anyone coming to the country aren't quarantining and observing the guidelines... Have you done a survey on them all?

No one is coming here for a holiday... Why would they? It's too expensive and nothing is open, or open with limited numbers/hours. And a 14 day quarantine requirement...aka tourism killer.

Not everyone on the planet has the virus, no matter what those in power may have you believe.

MOH

DeanAustin wrote: »

I posted this in another thread I think but I was out at the weekend for a mate's 40th and us having food changed how we drink and behave compared to normal. It was much more civilised. We weren't sober but we had a few pints and food whereas usually when we get together, we'd get hammered and a lot of sense goes out the window.

Maybe a lot of people would adhere to the guidelines but a lot of people wouldn't. Making food mandatory does change how (at least) some people drink and behave and that minimises the risk of the disease spreading.

We need to shut down the Luas immediately. And close supermarkets.
There's lots of people not behaving properly and not wearing masks, so close them down for everyone.
(on a side note, it's funny that the Luas inspectors who were apparently a necessary occupation at the height of lockdown when trams are empty aren't as prevalent now).

Nobody's saying open pubs as a free for all (actually, I don't claim to speak for everyone, but I'm certainly not). But open them on similar terms to the ones that are already open - table service, book for a limited period, take contact details. And it's much easier for the pub to limit consumption when it's table service, as opposed to 4 different people going to the bar and each ordering a round.

Heck, even be inventive. Temporarily raise the on-premises drinking age to 30 for pubs that don't serve food. Or even 40, or 50. That gives people tending towards higher risk somewhere to socialise while less likely to mix with the people more likely to be positive. And while it would be irritating to have pubs open but not meet the age requirements, at least I'd know there's still likely to be a pub there in future.

Tenzor07

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

What does closing restaurants at 11pm actually achieve, COVID-wise? Seems like a cynical move to shoehorn a puritanical "national bedtime" in with legitimate pandemic containment measures to me. I absolutely agree with delaying phase four and with the others measures which have been taken, but this one makes no sense unless it's merely a social engineering move dressed up as a COVID measure.

It has no basis in any fact based science... Keep people as restricted as possible and nothing will ever happen.

Fann Linn

KaneToad wrote: »

Less drinking time. Less time to over consume. Less risk of reduced inhibitions. More chance of adhering to social distance regs.

It's the same reasoning behind forcing people to eat a substantial meal.

Which has now been reduced to a soup or sandwich or a €9 slice of pizza. Totally absurd.

KaneToad

Tenzor07 wrote: »

People are fed up not being allowed to meet a friend for a beer.. To stay at a hotel/restaurant/pub after 11pm... With sitting outside wearing a rain jacket in the wind and rain.
...

You're right, people are fed up.

However, the alternative is increased deaths & the implosion of our health service.

People being fed up is, by far, the lesser of two evils.

SusieBlue

Tenzor07 wrote: »

People are fed up not being allowed to meet a friend for a beer.. To stay at a hotel/restaurant/pub after 11pm... With sitting outside wearing a rain jacket in the wind and rain.

How do you know anyone coming to the country aren't quarantining and observing the guidelines... Have you done a survey on them all?

No one is coming here for a holiday... Why would they? It's too expensive and nothing is open, or open with limited numbers/hours. And a 14 day quarantine requirement...aka tourism killer.

Not everyone on the planet has the virus, no matter what those in power may have you believe.

You’re misunderstanding me completely. I think pubs should be allowed reopen, in fact I think they should have been allowed reopen last month.
The lockdown went on for at least 6 weeks longer than it should have, the government dragged the arse out of the easing of restrictions.

I just reject the logic in forcing the pub industry to remain closed while allowing 100+ flights from covid-19 hotspots in each day. It’s nonsensical to me.
Whether they are tourists or citizens is irrelevant, that volume of flights and passengers cannot possibly be all travelling for essential reasons.
And it makes closing the pubs counter productive because they are still allowing people in and out of the country.
The government have a damn cheek telling publicans it’s too dangerous to reopen their businesses while that many flights are landing here each day.

hatrickpatrick

KaneToad wrote: »

Less drinking time. Less time to over consume. Less risk of reduced inhibitions. More chance of adhering to social distance regs.

It's the same reasoning behind forcing people to eat a substantial meal.

hmmm wrote: »

I expect it's simply to stop several hours of messy drinking with the consequent loss of social distancing. And no-one goes out for food at 11pm, so shouldn't be a problem for pubs which are adhering to the table time limits.

If they have to be out after 90 minutes then why does it make a difference what time of the day they're doing it at? This is a way of enforcing a cultural change and nothing more, the establishment in Ireland has long despised nightlife and the existence of people who don't "get up early in the morning". They are attempting to use the pandemic as an excuse to normalise this.

Don2012

KaneToad wrote: »

You're right, people are fed up.

However, the alternative is increased deaths & the implosion of our health service.

People being fed up is, by far, the lesser of two evils.

Do you still believe the figures they are putting out? It has become so obvious they are lying through their teeth. Every death they are marking as Covid regardless of how someone died. Ask yourself, where has the flu/cold? or any other illnesses and diseases gone since this all started??
How convenient that last week they put up the cases just before a bank holiday weekend. They want this to continue forever.

MadYaker

SusieBlue wrote: »

I don’t believe for only minute that there are over 100+ almost empty flights coming in and out every day.
With that sheer volume of traffic, they cannot possibly all be travelling for essential reasons either.
Even if only a quarter of incoming passengers on these incoming flights are tourists, that’s still too many.
If tomorrow’s daily average carries over for the rest of the week, that’s almost 800 incoming flights this week in one airport alone.
That’s absolutely nonsensical when we are still in the midst of a pandemic.

Nobody should be travelling in or out for non essential purposes while industries are forced to remain closed by the government.
It completely defeats the purpose when there are people coming in and out who aren’t quarantining and observing the guidelines.
Why should pubs remain closed when someone coming here to holiday can swan around as they please, potentially spreading the virus all over.

I've talked to three different family members who recently arrived back into the country over the last month or so and they all said the airport was empty and the flights were not even half full. DAA say its down to around 10% of normal. The gov can identify through contact tracing whether or not the cases are coming from international travel and if you look at the numbers almost none of them are. They are all related to clusters that started in work places or house parties.

I frequently read posts like this saying we should open the pubs because we're still allowing international flights and it never makes any sense to me. We are an island nation there will always be people flying in and out. I can guarantee that the number of people landing in Ireland ever day is a tiny % of the those crossing borders between countries in europe every day. If it was going to lead to more cases we would have seen that by now.

vafankillar

Poorside wrote: »

I've been in 7/8 different pubs/hotels/ restaurants since the reopening and all have been adhering to the guidelines, and spoken to people who have been others that seem to be the same, so you seem to be well wide of the mark by saying 'most'.

I haven't heard a single person report they were asked to leave after an hour and a half, nearly all i've talked to had no less than 2 hours there, usually 3-4 or more

Don2012

Don2012 wrote: »

Do you still believe the figures they are putting out? It has become so obvious they are lying through their teeth. Every death they are marking as Covid regardless of how someone died. Ask yourself, where has the flu/cold? or any other illnesses and diseases gone since this all started??

So it’s all a big conspiracy? Why didn’t they just get the lizard people to put mind control drugs in the water?

drunkmonkey

hmmm wrote: »

After that it will be up to everyone in the country to do their bit to get vaccinated & protect those who can't be vaccinated. 80% is too high, but it will need to be a high %. Vaccinations don't provide 100% protection, so I expect you will need to show a vaccination cert to travel on a plane or get into certain places - people who are vaccinated won't want to mix with potential carriers of a still-dangerous disease.

Vaccinations don't even provide 50% protection.

Everyone isn't going to do their bit and take the fastest produced vaccine in the history of the world, best of luck getting 100% of health care workers to get the flu jab this year let alone this new vaccine.

Vaccination certs? People won't want to mix with the unvaccinated? It only has a 14 day incubation period if you don't have it your not carrying it.

It all seems like a dream to be honest, a covid free population due to proper border testing and holding is from what I can see the only option. I'd go a bit further though anyone wanting to come here will be tested for a host of dangerous disease, most of our aids cases are imported at the moment yet we're not testing people coming from hotspots.

I'd like to see the long term health effects before injecting anything rushed through without the proper checks and balances. I can't be alone in that view.

Poorside

Don2012 wrote: »

Do you still believe the figures they are putting out? It has become so obvious they are lying through their teeth. Every death they are marking as Covid regardless of how someone died. Ask yourself, where has the flu/cold? or any other illnesses and diseases gone since this all started??
How convenient that last week they put up the cases just before a bank holiday weekend. They want this to continue forever.

So we've had no deaths in Ireland over the last 4 days? Better tell my wife's uncle before they bury him.

DeanAustin

MOH wrote: »

We need to shut down the Luas immediately. And close supermarkets.
There's lots of people not behaving properly and not wearing masks, so close them down for everyone.
(on a side note, it's funny that the Luas inspectors who were apparently a necessary occupation at the height of lockdown when trams are empty aren't as prevalent now).

Nobody's saying open pubs as a free for all (actually, I don't claim to speak for everyone, but I'm certainly not). But open them on similar terms to the ones that are already open - table service, book for a limited period, take contact details. And it's much easier for the pub to limit consumption when it's table service, as opposed to 4 different people going to the bar and each ordering a round.

Heck, even be inventive. Temporarily raise the on-premises drinking age to 30 for pubs that don't serve food. Or even 40, or 50. That gives people tending towards higher risk somewhere to socialise while less likely to mix with the people more likely to be positive. And while it would be irritating to have pubs open but not meet the age requirements, at least I'd know there's still likely to be a pub there in future.

The Luas and supermarkets are necessary so that's not really a proper argument.

The rest of your post is pretty good though. That said, I think where you have pubs opening and alcohol flowing, you'll have a not insignificant minority flouting the rules. You can see it already with some places not serving food and quite a lot ignoring the time limit.

I think that a relaxation will result in exploitation/ignoring the guidelines by some people and the government/NPHET obviously think it's too big a risk at this point. There's logic in their decision even if you don't agree with it but some people don't seem to get that.

KaneToad

Don2012 wrote: »

Do you still believe the figures they are putting out? It has become so obvious they are lying through their teeth. Every death they are marking as Covid regardless of how someone died. Ask yourself, where has the flu/cold? or any other illnesses and diseases gone since this all started??
How convenient that last week they put up the cases just before a bank holiday weekend. They want this to continue forever.

Who are 'they' ?
Why do they want this to continue ?

Grandeeod

The pubs could have and perhaps should have been the complete social experiment. But it looks like the schools will be that experiment now. Who knows? I don't anyway. No pubs. (couldn't give a fiddlers) Full school reopenings (care a bit more) but fully expecting a live with covid scenario at some point before Christmas. It bothers me, but we can't keep going the way we are.

joe40

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

So it’s all a big conspiracy? Why didn’t they just get the lizard people to put mind control drugs in the water?

A few nonsense conspiracy theories going around here alright.
The really important thing right now is to get the schools back in a few weeks. Even if there is only a small chance opening pubs cause a spike now, then the decision to keep them closed is sensible in my view.
I still like a noisy packed pub with a bit of atmosphere as much as anyone, but we can manage for another few weeks/months.
I would agree with financial help for publicans in the meantime, to keep the industry alive.

seamusk84

Genuinely we need to stand up to this ****e now from NPHET and it’s puppet government.
FF are proper weak in the face of public pressure, we need to start protesting.

aziz

vafankillar wrote: »

I haven't heard a single person report they were asked to leave after an hour and a half, nearly all i've talked to had no less than 2 hours there, usually 3-4 or more

I've only been out once since the "Pubs" reopened.
Went into one premises and had a meal and a few pints and was then given the bums rush after two hours.

Left and walked 20 minutes to another premises where had to order more food before we were given a drink and then had to leave a hour and a half later as they were closing,

Couldn't be arsed going out again after that
( but the pints were lovely)

joe40

joe40 wrote: »

A few nonsense conspiracy theories going around here alright.
The really important thing right now is to get the schools back in a few weeks. Even if there is only a small chance opening pubs cause a spike now, then the decision to keep them closed is sensible in my view.
I still like a noisy packed pub with a bit of atmosphere as much as anyone, but we can manage for another few weeks/months.
I would agree with financial help for publicans in the meantime, to keep the industry alive.

God yeah, I’d love the pubs open and can’t wait until such a day they’re opened up again properly. This just isn’t the time though and there are far more important things.

BattleCorp

aziz wrote: »

I've only been out once since the "Pubs" reopened.
Went into one premises and had a meal and a few pints and was then given the bums rush after two hours.

Left and walked 20 minutes to another premises where had to order more food before we were given a drink and then had to leave a hour and a half later as they were closing,

Couldn't be arsed going out again after that
( but the pints were lovely)

Excellent. That sounds like a brilliant night. I'm only allowed to eat one meal when I am out with the missus.

Macy0161

I really don't see how this will really affect the type of old man/ small rural pubs I love in all honesty.

If they stick with the rules, they won't have capacity to cover costs. Or if they could, they have such low costs they'll survive anyway.

MOH

MadYaker wrote: »

I've talked to three different family members who recently arrived back into the country over the last month or so and they all said the airport was empty and the flights were not even half full. DAA say its down to around 10% of normal. The gov can identify through contact tracing whether or not the cases are coming from international travel and if you look at the numbers almost none of them are. They are all related to clusters that started in work places or house parties.

I frequently read posts like this saying we should open the pubs because we're still allowing international flights and it never makes any sense to me. We are an island nation there will always be people flying in and out. I can guarantee that the number of people landing in Ireland ever day is a tiny % of the those crossing borders between countries in europe every day. If it was going to lead to more cases we would have seen that by now.

You know that a) there isn't a magic database of people's contacts, they rely on people providing them; and b) a cluster doesn't spontaneously come into existence in a workplace or at a party? Someone there already has it.

So if somebody arrives back from holidays and then goes to a party and infects all their mates, you be relying both on their mates identifying them as contacts, and them going for a test. Given there's been news reports of close contacts refusing to be tested, I'd actually be surprised if this hasn't happened a fair bit