Opening of "No-Food" pubs pushed out again

Macy0161

hmmm wrote: »

We're going to know for certain whether cases are rising or remaining steady. Right now the government is being told by NPHET that cases are rising, so this buys time.

It also gives the population a kick up the arse that it's not over, and if people don't stick the "rules" (and the spirit of the "rules") that enable the easing restrictions, it'll slow the process.

I have to say though, the picture being painted of rural pubs is laughable. If the couple auld lads (probably includes me at this stage) sitting belly to the bar over a couple of pints a few nights a week are that crucial to income, those pubs are already screwed or have very low costs. The reality is most rural pubs I know that are reliant on the alcohol trade are packed with young people - that's why I go to the bar not the lounge!

HeidiHeidi

facehugger99 wrote: »

The one that poses zero risk to young, healthy people or is there another one we're supposed to be scared of?

The young people who are going back to their families and social circle to potentially pass it on to far more vulnerable people, seeing as it's highly infectious for days before you even know you've got it?

And young people have died, and suffered severe consequences from infection, so there's not "zero risk".

murpho999

Despite all the protests here it appears that pubs being kept closed is broadly supported.

Any polls I have heard of on various media sources are showing support of the closures running at 70%-75% which is very high.

murpho999

GazzaL wrote: »

NPHET are the lads that made the taxpayer pay €100,000,000 per month to keep private hospitals empty. Public hospitals were also deserted. People haven't just been miraculously cured or stopped developing non-COVID illnesses. Our health service are not above being questioned, particularly given that they have brought scandal after scandal down through the years. You'll have to forgive people who don't deify them.

They didn't make the taxpayer pay anything.

They advised the government and the cabinet made the decision.

At the time the number of cases forecast was much higher than turned out and it was 100% the correct decision to be prepared.

If they hadn't done that and the numbers had turned out much higher and there was not enough hospital beds for patients then there would have been huge criticism and you probaby would have been on here calling them idiots

So they just can't win.

niallo27

murpho999 wrote: »

Despite all the protests here it appears that pubs being kept closed is broadly supported.

Any polls I have heard of on various media sources are showing support of the closures running at 70%-75% which is very high.

They have most people programmed to be terrified, one look on RTE news is enough to make you think this virus will wipe out half the country.

ginoginelli

murpho999 wrote: »

Despite all the protests here it appears that pubs being kept closed is broadly supported.

Any polls I have heard of on various media sources are showing support of the closures running at 70%-75% which is very high.

Of course. Most people know it is madness to open them. It's only people with a vested interest and the cognitively challenged looking to do so.

hetuzozaho

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Was in a small rural pub last night.
Family owned, 5 of the same family run the place and have a lot to lose, more than most.

Had two pints in the smoking area, plenty of space.


Only stayed an hour, didn’t have food so presumably I’m going to die.

How many people were there out of interest?

I've been hearing stories about rural pubs on the radio, one was paying 900eur a month for sky sports and was too small a space to do food, just a little bigger than a house he said. How do these pubs make money?

murpho999

niallo27 wrote: »

They have most people programmed to be terrified, one look on RTE news is enough to make you think this virus will wipe out half the country.

People are not that stupid.

I don't know why people underestimate this virus. Even if it killed 1% of the population, which it could easily do if not stopped, then on the island of Ireland that would be approx 67,000 deaths.

I think that's worth fighting for.

Charles Babbage

murpho999 wrote: »

People are not that stupid.

I don't know why people underestimate this virus. Even if it killed 1% of the population, which it could easily do if not stopped, then on the island of Ireland that would be approx 67,000 deaths.

I think that's worth fighting for.

Many posters here reckon they'll be in the 99% who live and they don't give a damn.

murpho999

murpho999 wrote: »

Despite all the protests here it appears that pubs being kept closed is broadly supported.

Any polls I have heard of on various media sources are showing support of the closures running at 70%-75% which is very high.

Dont believe everything you hear in the media. Full of bullsh!t

Charles Babbage

Deleted User wrote: »

Dont believe everything you hear in the media. Full of bullsh!t

In relation to this there is no bull****, most people do not want the spread of this disease.

Tenzor07

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

The young people who are going back to their families and social circle to potentially pass it on to far more vulnerable people, seeing as it's highly infectious for days before you even know you've got it? And young people have died, and suffered severe consequences from infection, so there's not "zero risk".

I believe the whole point is that what is keeping the pubs closed really going to achieve... A lot of in particular young people are going to house party's or hanging around parks etc. buying cheap booze at the Supermarket.. and in some cases buying cheap drugs... completely unregulated.. no bar staff, no security, no Gardai... and all in small houses where social distancing isn't an option at all, even if you wanted to...

These same young people may go home and spread the virus to older relatives and not have any symptoms at all, or even know they had Covid.

Charles Babbage

Charles Babbage wrote: »

In relation to this there is no bull****, most people do not want the spread of this disease.

I am not talking about the disease. I was talking about the polls in the media saying that 70-75% of people are happy that pubs are closed

HeidiHeidi

Tenzor07 wrote: »

I believe the whole point is that what is keeping the pubs closed really going to achieve... A lot of in particular young people are going to house party's or hanging around parks etc. buying cheap booze at the Supermarket.. and in some cases buying cheap drugs... completely unregulated.. no bar staff, no security, no Gardai... and all in small houses where social distancing isn't an option at all, even if you wanted to...

These same young people may go home and spread the virus to older relatives and not have any symptoms at all, or even know they had Covid.

My post was specifically in reply to another one saying there was zero risk to young people.

And I believe (anecdotally, can't prove it) that young people will engage in all of the above regardless of whether pubs are open or closed - pubs are a lot more expensive than informal home/outside socialising.

And that's a huge problem.

But a separate one to the one of pubs opening for drinking only.

murpho999

Deleted User wrote: »

Dont believe everything you hear in the media. Full of bullsh!t

I'm talkng about public polls they're not articles.

I'd believe experts like Prof Browne who has just been on Newstalk quicker than I'd believe on boards.


You can't just say eveything in the media is BS just because you don't like it.

PhilOssophy

Tenzor07 wrote: »

I believe the whole point is that what is keeping the pubs closed really going to achieve... A lot of in particular young people are going to house party's or hanging around parks etc. buying cheap booze at the Supermarket.. and in some cases buying cheap drugs... completely unregulated.. no bar staff, no security, no Gardai... and all in small houses where social distancing isn't an option at all, even if you wanted to...

These same young people may go home and spread the virus to older relatives and not have any symptoms at all, or even know they had Covid.

That is their own choice. If they want to take the risk of killing a family member, it is up to them to decide whether it is worth going to that house party for that risk.

I am happy with the level of risk I and my family are taking. That is all i can control. If some stupid kid thinks the risk isn't there for them, well it'll be too late crying at mammy or granny's funeral. But that is their own decision.

murpho999

murpho999 wrote: »

I'm talkng about public polls they're not articles.

I'd believe experts like Prof Browne who has just been on Newstalk quicker than I'd believe on boards.


You can't just say eveything in the media is BS just because you don't like it.

These polls are bullsh!t. I dont believe that 70-75% of people want pubs to stay closed. Were these polls carried out amoung pioneers or anti social gobsh1tes that dont go near pubs

Charles Babbage

Deleted User wrote: »

I am not talking about the disease. I was talking about the polls in the media saying that 70-75% of people are happy that pubs are closed

People who do not want the spread of the disease do not want restrictions to be relaxed while case numbers are increasing. They may not be happy that pubs are closed, but they see the need for it.

murpho999

Deleted User wrote: »

These polls are bullsh!t. I dont believe that 70-75% of people want pubs to stay closed. Were these polls carried out amoung pioneers or anti social gobsh1tes that dont go near pubs

They're public polls on the internet. How is a poll "Do you support pub closure? Yes/No/Don't know" BS? It's very simple,

Why don't you believe them?

Also, people I speak to support the closures.

It's just that those are against it are the most vocal here, in the media, Journal.ie comments etc.

I have learnt lately that what's posted here does not actually reflect public opinoin. Was also shown in recent referendum on abortion that very strongly gave the opinion it would be defeated but won easily.

murpho999

murpho999 wrote: »

They're public polls on the internet. How is a poll "Do you support pub closure? Yes/No/Don't know" BS? It's very simple,

Why don't you believe them?

Also, people I speak to support the closures.

It's just that those are against it are the most vocal here, in the media, Journal.ie comments etc.

I have learnt lately that what's posted here does not actually reflect public opinoin. Was also shown in recent referendum on abortion that very strongly gave the opinion it would be defeated but won easily.

Well i cant wait for the pubs to be open so i can have a nice few pints with my mates. Feck the anti pub brigade

HeidiHeidi

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Well i cant wait for the pubs to be open so i can have a nice few pints with my mates. Feck the anti pub brigade

I wouldn't call them anti-pub, more anti-virus

Nice public-spirited attitude though!

DuffleBag

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Well i cant wait for the pubs to be open so i can have a nice few pints with my mates. Feck the anti pub brigade

Ah well as long as you have your fun that's all that matters.

Reckon it's the anti-virus group not the anti-pub group in the 70-75% bracket tbh, but I can see there's no convincing you. Gasping for a pint you are.

Tenzor07

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

But a separate one to the one of pubs opening for drinking only.

They are definitely linked, people who's social life is based around pubs and clubs have now transferred that to house gatherings were any health guidelines of any sort are out the window completely.

PMBC

Macy0161 wrote: »

It also gives the population a kick up the arse that it's not over, and if people don't stick the "rules" (and the spirit of the "rules") that enable the easing restrictions, it'll slow the process.

I have to say though, the picture being painted of rural pubs is laughable. If the couple auld lads (probably includes me at this stage) sitting belly to the bar over a couple of pints a few nights a week are that crucial to income, those pubs are already screwed or have very low costs. The reality is most rural pubs I know that are reliant on the alcohol trade are packed with young people - that's why I go to the bar not the lounge!

Yes and one of the Healy Raes talking about the pub that just has four or five customers. Even if they all drank 10 pints each, that would hardly be enough to make the business profitable.
Id like to see pubs re-open, but only when its safe. Its heartening to see the Government stand strong on this.

DuffleBag

DuffleBag wrote: »

Ah well as long as you have your fun that's all that matters.

Reckon it's the anti-virus group not the anti-pub group in the 70-75% bracket tbh, but I can see there's no convincing you. Gasping for a pint you are.

Wouldnt say i gasping for pints,sure the cans at the weekend sort me out.
I miss the social side of the pubs,catching up with the friends,watching the gaa etc

HeidiHeidi

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

I wouldn't call them anti-pub, more anti-virus

Nice public-spirited attitude though!

I am all for fighting this virus. I just think the way publicans are being treated is a disgrace when you see the likes of gyms,shopping centres,retail shops like pennys(no social distancing there) are open

uptherebels

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I am all for fighting this virus. I just think the way publicans are being treated is a disgrace when you see the likes of gyms,shopping centres,retail shops like pennys(no social distancing there) are open

And which of these have alcohol being consumed on the premises?

Tenzor07

PMBC wrote: »

Yes and one of the Healy Raes talking about the pub that just has four or five customers. Even if they all drank 10 pints each, that would hardly be enough to make the business profitable.
Id like to see pubs re-open, but only when its safe. Its heartening to see the Government stand strong on this.

Not sure how many customers a small pub in Kerry would get, part of the point is that it's a social outlet for a lot of the elderly customers who live in a village, and less about how much they drink... the pub owner may just want to get some cash flowing instead of taking handouts..
Unless they open as a €9 pub and that will mean the virus will skip past them.

NIMAN

I went out for pub grub last night for 1st time is ages, probably since last autumn.

We were there for about an hour in total, had pre-booked our table.

There was a perspex screen between the tables, all the staff were masked, and we had one drink with our meal and left.

I can see why these type of places are being treated differently to just pubs where drink is the only thing for sale.
They would currently be 2 very different experiences.

HeidiHeidi

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Wouldnt say i gasping for pints,sure the cans at the weekend sort me out.
I miss the social side of the pubs,catching up with the friends,watching the gaa etc

But you do understand the risk associated with that sort of activity?

Close quarters for a sustained period of time, inhibitions lowered with alcohol intake so social distancing (and probably strict hygiene) goes out the window, close contact with lots of random people making contact tracing much more difficult in the event of a case being confirmed....

We all miss the social element, but there's good reason behind it.

The government aren't doing it for ****s'n'giggles, or to torture the general populace.....

murpho999

Deleted User wrote: »

Well i cant wait for the pubs to be open so i can have a nice few pints with my mates. Feck the anti pub brigade

I'm not anti-pub in anyway. I love my few pints and miss the craic but I think it's right that they remain closed and so do many of my friends.

How you don't think having a few pints with your mates in a public enclosed space with other people is not perfect for the virus to spread is beyond me.

Strumms

Charles Babbage wrote: »

People who do not want the spread of the disease do not want restrictions to be relaxed while case numbers are increasing. They may not be happy that pubs are closed, but they see the need for it.

I’m somebody who can’t wait till pubs reopen... but I’m very happy that ‘for now’ they are not open as per usual.

I’m somebody whose priority is investing a bit more of our time, investing in a lot more of our discipline, putting up with a bit more inconvenience and hardship so that when pubs do reopen, it’s with a greater level of safety, assurance so that the likelihood of us needing another lockdown is next to nil...

HeidiHeidi

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I am all for fighting this virus. I just think the way publicans are being treated is a disgrace when you see the likes of gyms,shopping centres,retail shops like pennys(no social distancing there) are open

I agree with you on the likes of Penneys, to a certain extent - but the exposure time is a fraction of that of an evening in the pub, and alcohol is the huge difference - with the best will in the world, the best of intentions go to pot with a few pints on board.

murpho999

Deleted User wrote: »

I am all for fighting this virus. I just think the way publicans are being treated is a disgrace when you see the likes of gyms,shopping centres,retail shops like pennys(no social distancing there) are open

Do you sit down beside people in shopping centres,penneys, gyms etc and consume alcohol for a prolonged period of time?

It's unlikely you'll catch a virus from people in a shop as you walk by them.
Pub is a massive difference.

AUDI20

Deleted User wrote: »

Well i cant wait for the pubs to be open so i can have a nice few pints with my mates. Feck the anti pub brigade

You might be waiting a while!

Strumms

Deleted User wrote: »

Well i cant wait for the pubs to be open so i can have a nice few pints with my mates. Feck the anti pub brigade

There is no anti pub brigade. Only a pro health and pro return to some degree of normality brigade... who are willing that we make short term sacrifices to enable long term gains... so pubs become a thing again, cinemas, traveling, seeing your friends, family without military like precision planning....


They are the priorities, ALL priorities. Pandering to the ‘pubs at all costs’ fûckwits who either are just too selfish because they want a few pints, the craic and somewhere to go, or the mealy mouthed money men in charge who can’t abide not making money, despite great savings and a nice covid payment.

Do people not think we might have to live with this.What if it never goes away,we might never find a vaccine. Do people think pubs should stay closed until a vaccines found

deckie66

Deleted User wrote: »

Do people not think we might have to live with this.What if it never goes away,we might never find a vaccine. Do people think pubs should stay closed until a vaccines found

err . . . .No. Bars are open all across europe

deckie66

deckie66 wrote: »

err . . . .No. Bars are open all across europe

Have cases risen since bars opened across Europe?

HeidiHeidi

Deleted User wrote: »

Do people not think we might have to live with this.What if it never goes away,we might never find a vaccine. Do people think pubs should stay closed until a vaccines found

It's not either/or.

The entire world is feeling it's way through this, trying to figure out what we can and can't do without sending infection figures through the roof again.

Pubs are a very high risk activity, so will be very far down the list of activities to resume. If all other things can be managed to keep the figures at a sustainably low level, then pubs might open up again. They can't be treated in isolation.

I personally think it'll be a fair while before we see them open in a pre-covid, completely unrestricted manner.

HeidiHeidi

Deleted User wrote: »

Have cases risen since bars opened across Europe?

Cases are rising in places all over Europe.

HeidiHeidi

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Cases are rising in places all over Europe.

Are cases rising due to bars being reopen tho?

SEPT 23 1989

Will be ever emerge from Phase Puritan?:D

NIMAN

What do we think the punishment should be for this guy, who still intends to open on Monday?

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/enough-is-enough-publican-vows-to-open-on-monday-despite-government-advice-39374808.html

cadaliac

Strumms wrote: »

There is no anti pub brigade. Only a pro health and pro return to some degree of normality brigade... who are willing that we make short term sacrifices to enable long term gains... so pubs become a thing again, cinemas, traveling, seeing your friends, family without military like precision planning....


They are the priorities, ALL priorities. Pandering to the ‘pubs at all costs’ fûckwits who either are just too selfish because they want a few pints, the craic and somewhere to go, or the mealy mouthed money men in charge who can’t abide not making money, despite great savings and a nice covid payment.

What are you talking about? Get down off the high horse with your "fuc_kwits" comment. The savings that everyone seems to have..... right ya.

People are very entitled to have a pint if they wish. There "should" be no issue if the pub employs the correct SD guidelines and adheres to them rigidly.
Blanket banning of non food pubs is using a sledge hammer to crack a nut.
Currently, you have to order food which enables you to order drinks. People are already flouting the guidelines, everywhere. It's not as simple of keeping half of the pubs shut while other pubs flout the guidelines.
I completely understand the dangers of opening pubs where there will be no SD and this must be addressed, yes this is the crux of the issue. However, pubs that can manage the situation correctly and can be spot checked etc should have no issue re-opening. Everybody else is allowed to operate within reason, so should the pubs.

Jimbob1977

Is the closure of "non-food pubs" a recommendation or a law?

If it's only a recommendation, you cannot take them to court.

There would be no legislation to quote.

SAMTALK

cadaliac wrote: »

What are you talking about? Get down off the high horse with your "fuc_kwits" comment. The savings that everyone seems to have..... right ya.

People are very entitled to have a pint if they wish. There "should" be no issue if the pub employs the correct SD guidelines and adheres to them rigidly.
Blanket banning of non food pubs is using a sledge hammer to crack a nut.
Currently, you have to order food which enables you to order drinks. People are already flouting the guidelines, everywhere. It's not as simple of keeping half of the pubs shut while other pubs flout the guidelines.
I completely understand the dangers of opening pubs where there will be no SD and this must be addressed, yes this is the crux of the issue. However, pubs that can manage the situation correctly and can be spot checked etc should have no issue re-opening. Everybody else is allowed to operate within reason, so should the pubs.

It's the amount of time people spend in the company of others. Go to a supermarket and you can have your weeks shop done within an hour.

it's the fact the with a few drinks in us we tend to get a bit lax and let our guard down

I feel sorry for the publicans and the way the food rule was implemented but it's a difficult call for the government to make

I think the priority now is to get the children back to school and work from there

GazzaL

SAMTALK wrote: »

It's the amount of time people spend in the company of others. Go to a supermarket and you can have your weeks shop done within an hour.

it's the fact the with a few drinks in us we tend to get a bit lax and let our guard down

I feel sorry for the publicans and the way the food rule was implemented but it's a difficult call for the government to make

I think the priority now is to get the children back to school and work from there

You can have a rake of pints and an immunity steak sandwich without a mask, but if you want to run in and out of a shop to buy a loaf of bread you're risking armageddon if you don't wear a mask, apparently.

SAMTALK

GazzaL wrote: »

You can have a rake of pints and an immunity steak sandwich without a mask, but if you want to run in and out of a shop to buy a loaf of bread you're risking armageddon if you don't wear a mask, apparently.

I know there are a lot of contradictions and I think pubs that serve food should have been put under the same umbrella as pubs that dont.

Im not a fan of wearing masks but if it's going to help in general then yes I will wear one.

HeidiHeidi

GazzaL wrote: »

You can have a rake of pints and an immunity steak sandwich without a mask, but if you want to run in and out of a shop to buy a loaf of bread you're risking armageddon if you don't wear a mask, apparently.

You're meant to be having a meal in a controlled environment (restaurant), with accompanying drinks, in a socially distanced setting. Very hard to eat or drink with a mask on.

If you want to turn that into "a rake of pints with a steak sandwich", then that's on you.

If wearing a mask in an indoor, close quarters setting like a supermarket, can help reduce transmission, then that's a good thing, no?