Opening of "No-Food" pubs pushed out again

Tenzor07

weldoninhio wrote: »

How exactly do you fight the virus??

Buy a plate of Cheese nachos for €9...

hetuzozaho

weldoninhio wrote: »

How exactly do you fight the virus??

Trying to stop giving it opportunities to spread is all I guess.

Stop piling back to large house parties because your annoyed with the restrictions in the pub!

circadian

MOH wrote: »

There was a party. On a street.

A party,
In a house,
On a street,
A huge party!
Oh what a party!
Go party people, go!

MOH

mountgomery burns wrote: »

What has selfish people congregating at massive parties in April and May got to do with opening of pubs?

It's the conflating of the two that's been the issue from day one. In government's view, pub owners and pub goers can't be trusted. And that's why it's taken this long and even still Dublin will remain at level 5 restrictions going forward when it comes to pubs.

Actually, at level 5 pubs could be open for takeaway or delivery, which I think is still better off than they are now.They must be at level 5.5. Or 5.8372. (Pubs that serve food can't though, they can only sell takeaway food at level 5. Which I assume is a mistake, but that's what yesterday's plan says.)

There was a fairly telling moment in Micheal Martin's interview on the news yesterday.

He was asked why, if NPHET were concerned about the figures last Thursday, why they didn't announce a decision more quickly, such as on Friday as they have done any time previously that NPHET raised any issue.

His response was a quite annoyed "Move more quickly how on the pubs?It was September 21st the pubs were due to open. We're making a decision now well in advance of that that they're not to open".

Now, I'm not a expert, but it seems quite obvious that if your business has been shuttered for the past 6 months and the government guarantees you on Sept. 8th that your business can open on Sept 21st, and that date absolutely will not change (except in case of a wider lockdown affecting other businesses), you have a fair bit of work to do to be ready to open on that date. Stuff like getting stock in, arranging staffing, etc. So you're probably going to be starting on that straight away.
If the government already has an indication a mere two days later that they're going to renege on that guarantee, it would help a lot to know that then, rather than them sitting on it for 5 days when you've already made a lot of the necessary arrangements.

It's also quite obvious from that response that this is a man who has never worked in any business in the real world, and doesn't have the faintest clue of the basics which any leaving cert student would probably be able to take a fair stab at. It certainly explains a lot though.

weldoninhio

hetuzozaho wrote: »

Trying to stop giving it opportunities to spread is all I guess.

Stop piling back to large house parties because your annoyed with the restrictions in the pub!

So we can’t. We tried that for 3 months. Lockdown lifted and were back here again. Deaths are at rock bottom. Less than 15 in ICU. Even with house parties and people on staycations etc.

We’re doing great.

MrStuffins

weldoninhio wrote: »

So we can’t.

We certainly can. We just need everyone pulling in the same direction.

However, there are always those who won't. And they are numerous enough to undo the work of everyone else.

hetuzozaho

weldoninhio wrote: »

So we can’t.

We can. And we have.

Pauliedragon

I agree with most posts here but the elephant in the room is our ****e health system isn't equipped to deal with any massive emergency health issue. This is decades of failure by successive governments coming back to bite us. We have 50% icu capacity compared to the European average. Its not a coincidence that Germany which has the highest was the 1st to open up. You reap what you sow.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

MrStuffins wrote: »

Not anyone......


just some :pac:

I must have missed the part where I was talking about lizards, 5g and Bill Gates because I sure didn’t see any in the things you quoted.

There is another approach to this.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/15/sweden-records-its-fewest-daily-covid-19-cases-since-march

Our gov have made the biggest pigs ear out of this whole thing.

Oh sorry, it’s Bill Gates fault, that’s what I meant to say.

rubadub

Hunky Monster wrote: »

I must have missed the part where I was talking about lizards, 5g and Bill Gates because I sure didn’t see any in the things you quoted.

The 9/11 was enough for most people! there were a few other beauts in that post (why the fcuk was it deleted?) you should not take the lizard comments so literally, its just slang for conspiracy theorist type which you know fine fcuking well, yet another feigning ignorance, cringeworthy stuff. I also doubt many are literally twitching curtains.

MrStuffins

rubadub wrote: »

The 9/11 was enough for most people! there were a few other beauts in that post (why the fcuk was it deleted?) you should not take the lizard comments so literally, its just slang for conspiracy theorist type which you know fine fcuking well, yet another feigning ignorance, cringeworthy stuff. I also doubt many are literally twitching curtains.

Exactly.

Not everyone who disagrees with the restrictions is a lunatic. There are some valid and lucid reasons that some people put across for disagreeing with them. And that is fine.

It's when people are basing their opposition on paranoid delusions and conspiracies that is concerning. Ranting and raving about how the government are out to get you.

It's impossible to take one serious in this case.

weldoninhio

MrStuffins wrote: »

We certainly can. We just need everyone pulling in the same direction.

However, there are always those who won't. And they are numerous enough to undo the work of everyone else.

The virus won’t be going away. We all pulled in the same direction. NZ all pulled in the same direction. Oz all pulled in the same direction. The virus didn’t go anywhere. It’s time to get on with living.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

MrStuffins wrote: »

Exactly.

Not everyone who disagrees with the restrictions is a lunatic. There are some valid and lucid reasons that some people put across for disagreeing with them. And that is fine.

It's when people are basing their opposition on paranoid delusions and conspiracies that is concerning. Ranting and raving about how the government are out to get you.

It's impossible to take one serious in this case.

You’re trying to come across as the voice of reason but failing spectacularly.

You’ve yet to address anything people put to you except “the pubs are open”.

I linked an article to Sweden in my last post which you conveniently ignored but chose to continue with the “curtain twitcher” comments. Also Sweden has just been added to the green list of countries...so they can’t be doing too badly while managing to not torch their economy and ruin thousands of lives.

Just keep on putting the faith in our government that you seem to trust implicitly. You WILL wake up...eventually.

MrStuffins

weldoninhio wrote: »

We all pulled in the same direction.

No, we didn't. That's the point.

weldoninhio

MrStuffins wrote: »

No, we didn't. That's the point.

I see you ignored the part about NZ and Oz who most definitely did. You’re a spoofer. I’ll be living my life. Session on Saturday and country break next week for a pub crawl. You live yours under your bed. We can reconvene post-Covid and see who feels more silly for choosing their path. I’m drooling now thinking of the delicious creamy pints.

MrStuffins

weldoninhio wrote: »

We all pulled in the same direction.

weldoninhio wrote: »

I’ll be living my life. Session on Saturday and country break next week for a pub crawl.

See? You're contradicting yourself. You've openly admitted not wearing a mask, going on pub crawls and going to loads of house parties.

If that's how you want to live, that's fine. I won't criticise you for it.

But don't lie to yourself and say that this is pulling in the same direction as the rest of us. It's not. It's living your life with just you in mind and nobody else, pulling in the opposite direction of everyone else. It's doing the opposite of what we're being asked to do to stop the spread of the virus. People who are doing what you're doing are compounding the spread of this virus.

weldoninhio

MrStuffins wrote: »

See? You're contradicting yourself. You've openly admitted not wearing a mask, going on pub crawls and going to loads of house parties.

If that's how you want to live, that's fine. I won't criticise you for it.

But don't lie to yourself and say that this is pulling in the same direction as the rest of us. It's not. It's living your life with just you in mind and nobody else, pulling in the opposite direction of everyone else. It's doing the opposite of what we're being asked to do to stop the spread of the virus. People who are doing what you're doing are compounding the spread of this virus.

Pulled. That’s past tense. Hence no contradiction. Basic English comprehension. Original lockdown ended a few months ago and we are now back where we started.

You miss the parts about Oz and NZ again?? Must be a smudge on your screen where relevant points made against your nonsense posts aren’t showing up.

MrStuffins

weldoninhio wrote: »

Pulled. That’s past tense. Hence no contradiction.

Yes, pulled.

We didn't all pull in the same direction. For example, you (in the past) have admitted to refusing to wear a mask.

You (in the past) have admitted to going to all sorts of house parties.

You (in the past) were saying you were going on pub crawls.

While we were pulling together, you were pulling in the opposite direction. And there are plenty more like you.

If that makes you uncomfortable, I don't blame you. But, again, don't lie to yourself and pretend you were pulling in the same direction as everyone else.

MOH

MrStuffins wrote: »

No, we didn't. That's the point.

No, the point is that the pubs are still closed. Hence the thread title.

Wow, remember when it was only Aug 10th they were going to be closed until....

hynesie08

MOH wrote: »

No, the point is that the pubs are still closed. Hence the thread title.

Wow, remember when it was only Aug 10th they were going to be closed until....

To be fair, they never said WHICH August 10th.....

madmax72

Anybody have any idea what the additional restrictions will be to food pubs/restaurants in Dublin if they go to level 3?

Neowise

madmax72 wrote: »

Anybody have any idea what the additional restrictions will be to food pubs/restaurants in Dublin if they go to level 3?

The head of communications at dublin chambers Graeme McQueen does not know the answer to that.


source: https://www.todayfm.com/podcasts/the-last-word-with-matt-cooper/dublin-heads-level-3-lockdown-mean-people-live-work


interview begins at 8:50

Irish Steve

Well, 2 pubs, a sports and social club and a rugby club in Wales have pointed the way forward, but there will be plenty here that won't like the result.

The pubs are now closed, and the whole area around them has been put into higher level lock down as a result of the clusters that they have spawned, and that's with an infection rate in the 80's. The Dublin area is already in the 90 to 150 range. Pretty good reason for me to avoid adding to the problems that are already staring us in the face.

weldoninhio

MrStuffins wrote: »

Yes, pulled.

We didn't all pull in the same direction. For example, you (in the past) have admitted to refusing to wear a mask.

You (in the past) have admitted to going to all sorts of house parties.

You (in the past) were saying you were going on pub crawls.

While we were pulling together, you were pulling in the opposite direction. And there are plenty more like you.

If that makes you uncomfortable, I don't blame you. But, again, don't lie to yourself and pretend you were pulling in the same direction as everyone else.

Masks didnt come in until after the lockdown ended (13th July 2020). I said I’d gone to house parties since lockdown ended, specifically FA Cup Final day (1 August 2020) were the two I mentioned. I said I’m going on a pub crawl next week, lovely creamy pints. You really have trouble with your tenses.

Now back to lockdown, which was the original point. People in the main, including me, adhered to it. As did people in NZ and Oz, how did that work out?? Are NZ and Oz free and clear? They even quarantined people entering the country. Must be virus free with all that pulling together, eh??

pjohnson

weldoninhio wrote: »

Masks didnt come in until after the lockdown ended (13th July 2020). I said I’d gone to house parties since lockdown ended, specifically FA Cup Final day (1 August 2020) were the two I mentioned. I said I’m going on a pub crawl next week, lovely creamy pints. You really have trouble with your tenses.

Now back to lockdown, which was the original point. People in the main, including me, adhered to it. As did people in NZ and Oz, how did that work out?? Are NZ and Oz free and clear? They even quarantined people entering the country. Must be virus free with all that pulling together, eh??

Christ thats some retcon :pac:

mountgomery burns

Irish Steve wrote: »

Well, 2 pubs, a sports and social club and a rugby club in Wales have pointed the way forward, but there will be plenty here that won't like the result.

The pubs are now closed, and the whole area around them has been put into higher level lock down as a result of the clusters that they have spawned, and that's with an infection rate in the 80's. The Dublin area is already in the 90 to 150 range. Pretty good reason for me to avoid adding to the problems that are already staring us in the face.

What do you make of the attempts to deal with the problem? I don't see how a problem that they believe is escalating out of control can be dealt with by continuing to restrict something that is already banned.

What's being done to deal with what is actually causing the problems?

Irish Steve

mountgomery burns wrote: »

What do you make of the attempts to deal with the problem? I don't see how a problem that they believe is escalating out of control can be dealt with by continuing to restrict something that is already banned.

What's being done to deal with what is actually causing the problems?

The UK situation was different, pubs and clubs are open, but where there is clear evidence of a cluster, they are being closed, which is very different to here. They're not restricting something already banned, they're shutting it down there, and given that Dublin is already higher case load wise than Rhondda, the decision to keep the remaining pubs here closed is a no brainer, and there's a pretty good chance that the pubs that are open will see increased restrictions, the objective being to keep the infection rate from overwhelming the services providing support to people who need it.

Across the spectrum, the health services have to be able to provide their service to other things beside Covid, and we saw what happened in Italy and Spain earlier in the year, where the Italian Army had to provide trucks to move the coffins as the normal services were overwhelmed.

We already know that mitigating the spread is not going to stop Covid, only manage it, but managing it is the least worst option in town at the moment, as there is no magic wand to get rid of it.

if it's managed, and the health services get the resources they need in terms of staff and beds, the best hope is that the fatalities will be lower due to better management, and less stress on the beds and the staff providing the service.

The one good thing about the summer is that the people managing the illness have learnt a lot more about how to treat the patients they have been dealing with, which hopefully will reduce the numbers requiring ICU admission.

mountgomery burns

Sorry I think I wasn't clear enough. I am talking about Ireland, but specifically Dublin as from Monday it will be the only place with pubs closed and likely be in level 3+.

So what do you make of the measures put in place to counteract the problems there? Do you think they are effective and addressing the issues giving rise to the spike? Are you reassured the government is acting sufficiently to reduce the spread in Dublin to prevent cases escalating further?

MOH

Irish Steve wrote: »

Well, 2 pubs, a sports and social club and a rugby club in Wales have pointed the way forward, but there will be plenty here that won't like the result.

The pubs are now closed, and the whole area around them has been put into higher level lock down as a result of the clusters that they have spawned, and that's with an infection rate in the 80's. The Dublin area is already in the 90 to 150 range. Pretty good reason for me to avoid adding to the problems that are already staring us in the face.

So.... four cherry-picked venues in Wales somehow point the way forward (to what, it's not clear)? What about all the other pubs, sports and social clubs, and rugby clubs in Wales? And the rest of Europe?

If we've reached an incidence level in Dublin where pubs should remain shut (and in fairness, we probably have) then food pubs, restaurants, and other non-essential businesses should also be closed to help contain the increase. That's what the government committed to nine days ago.
Yes, that's a massive economic hit for many businesses, but they've already deemed it accessible to needlessly shutter a whole sector for months, so doing it more widely at a time when it's necessary shouldn't be a problem.

Meanwhile they're now telling people it's fine to go on holidays with no Covid restrictions on return. So a large group of people who would be unable to meet in a pub here for a night could all spend four hours each way on a flight to Greece, a week there mixing in pubs with each other and people from loads of countries, come home and instantly go into work.
There's zero coherent planning going on here.

Irish Steve

I'm not in the least reassured by the lack of clear and unequivocal guidance from the politicians here, their lack of clarity is one of the problems, people are uncertain what the situation is.

As for pubs, there are a lot of people who don't like it, but they are a service that we don't need right now, given that they represent a significant risk of spreading Covid over a wider number of people, for all sorts of reasons.

There are wider issues than just the pubs, the whole testing and track and trace system is not delivering the results in the timescales that are needed, and expecting people to travel for over an hour on public transport to get to a test centre is the sort of thing that I expect to see on the Muppet show, not something that should be happening in a real life situation.

The UK has made it clear this morning that there are 3 factors driving their decision to lock down the North East.

Pubs and clubs are the first

Home gatherings of larger groups

Sports such as soccer and rugby.

If we had a more detailed track and trace, and more open reporting of where clusters are happening, and how big they are, I suspect that the same information would be in the public domain here.

We have no choice other than to change how we deal with this virus, and that needs some serious and urgent engagement at the highest levels of government to make it happen, and not accept the usual black smoke from advisers and civil servant who are embedded in the existing systems and change averse.

And, although not part of the discussion as such, we also need Irish business to get off their collective backsides and get moving on having real and usable web presence that works, a friend asked me yesterday to find him some wire mesh to prevent vermin access to his house through gaps. I had to spend a lot of time to try and find what I needed from an Irish company, searching for what I wanted found plenty of Chinese suppliers, quite a few UK and Australian companies, but the number of Irish results was very thin on the ground.

That might be a Google search issue, or it might be that Irish companies have not embraced the reality that they need a good and viable online presence to survive, and Covid is only increasing the numbers that are being affected by this change. Too many have relied on the ability to order overnight from the UK, and charge a premium for doing so, but if I read it right, that may well become a non viable option if Brexit goes the way it's looking right now, which will be another massive issue for many companies.

PommieBast

MOH wrote: »

If the government already has an indication a mere two days later that they're going to renege on that guarantee, it would help a lot to know that then, rather than them sitting on it for 5 days when you've already made a lot of the necessary arrangements.

At this stage any actual "opening" date won't be about opening. It will be the date that the bankruptcies and defaults will start flooding in. Not surprised they want to kick that can down the road under the banner of public health/safety.

Tenzor07

PommieBast wrote: »

At this stage any actual "opening" date won't be about opening. It will be the date that the bankruptcies and defaults will start flooding in. Not surprised they want to kick that can down the road under the banner of public health/safety.

For sure, it's like as if they want to compleletey decimate the traditional Irish pub, turn all Pubs into a Wetherspoons franchise, all run from a Corporate HQ in the UK.

The Nal

O'Donaghues on social media giving out. Why don't they start bringing pizzas in? They kind of suggest it like its madness when they really should've done this back in June.

Cirillo's was just voted the third best pizza in Europe and its a few doors up from them.

MOH

The Nal wrote: »

O'Donaghues on social media giving out. Why don't they start bringing pizzas in? They kind of suggest it like its madness when they really should've done this back in June.

Cirillo's was just voted the third best pizza in Europe and its a few doors up from them.

Or, you know, why didn't they just allow all the pubs to open back in June under the exact same restrictions as everyone else which is what they're proposing to do now anyway. Or were, until they changed their minds 5 seconds later.

Also, why would a pub go to all the hassle of arranging that back in June (it's not that straightforward), when at the time they were being told they could open anyway in a couple weeks?

The Nal

MOH wrote: »

Or, you know, why didn't they just allow all the pubs to open back in June under the exact same restrictions as everyone else which is what they're proposing to do now anyway. Or were, until they changed their minds 5 seconds later.

Also, why would a pub go to all the hassle of arranging that back in June (it's not that straightforward), when at the time they were being told they could open anyway in a couple weeks?

I think we're beyond taking something thats proposed 3 or 4 weeks into the future as gospel.

It is that straightforward by the way. Cirellos are crying out for business, as is the pub. Customers want to go to the pub to drink, people like pints, people like pizza, Cirellos will deliver.....

Toners are doing it.

Tenzor07

The Nal wrote: »

It is that straightforward by the way. Cirellos are crying out for business, as is the pub. Customers want to go to the pub to drink, people like pints, people like pizza, Cirellos will deliver......

Well at €13 for a standard Pizza I'm not surprised they are crying out for customers! I went to the best Pizza restaurant in Naples last year and had an amazing pizza for €5!

AdamD

The Nal wrote: »

I think we're beyond taking something thats proposed 3 or 4 weeks into the future as gospel.

It is that straightforward by the way. Cirellos are crying out for business, as is the pub. Customers want to go to the pub to drink, people like pints, people like pizza, Cirellos will deliver.....

Toners are doing it.

I highly doubt Cirillos can make enough pizzas for both Toners and O'Donoghues. Kind of amazed they're pulling it off for Toners already


Anyways, surely this shows how ridiculous it is. They can open if they put a pizza on your table..

The Master

The Nal wrote: »

O'Donaghues on social media giving out. Why don't they start bringing pizzas in? They kind of suggest it like its madness when they really should've done this back in June.

The strange part is O'Donaghues already does food

I used to go most Sunday mornings to the music session out in the courtyard
And they serve Stew,Soup and toasted sambos for €10

The Napper Tandy pub next door is attached to O'Donaghues and does a full menu

Bizarre that they're moaning about having to bring Pizzas in so they can open

hetuzozaho

The Master wrote: »

The strange part is O'Donaghues already does food

I used to go most Sunday mornings to the music session out in the courtyard
And they serve Stew,Soup and toasted sambos for €10

The Napper Tandy pub next door is attached to O'Donaghues and does a full menu

Bizarre that they're moaning about having to bring Pizzas in so they can open

Yes I know other pubs that used to serve food also not open. Their lively hood at stake and the answer to the problem in their tweet. I don't get it. Must be more to it. Think they just need money from government.

I see some tweets around "opening up not enough" and #budget21

0gac3yjefb5sv7

What additional restrictions will Dublin pubs have in level 3?

The Nal

AdamD wrote: »

I highly doubt Cirillos can make enough pizzas for both Toners and O'Donoghues. Kind of amazed they're pulling it off for Toners already

Course they can. Pizza in those ovens take 90 seconds to cook and they can do 3 or 4 at a time. Dominos stores manage to make and deliver hundreds every night.

AdamD wrote: »

Anyways, surely this shows how ridiculous it is. They can open if they put a pizza on your table..

Or soup and a sambo!

MrMusician18

Tenzor07 wrote: »

So where you at the gates to Leinster House protesting against the Oireachtas Golf society outing where 81 people partied like it was 1999...Literally!

Or are you an angry Keyboard warrior who likes to come on and lambaste female posters here who likes to have a bit of wine and cheese with a few close friends? Big man eh?

Oh I didn't know women were meant to get a free pass, thanks for letting me know Mr. White Knight.

I'll call out any poster, male or female that thinks that are above adherence to the regulations. If someone was posting that they were having 6/7 friends over weekly for beer, crisps and to watch football and then tried to explain it away, I'd express similar ire.

weldoninhio

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Oh I didn't know women were meant to get a free pass, thanks for letting me know Mr. White Knight.

I'll call out any poster, male or female that thinks that are above adherence to the regulations. If someone was posting that they were having 6/7 friends over weekly for beer, crisps and to watch football and then tried to explain it away, I'd express similar ire.

Holy Sh!t!!! An internet "call out" from Mr Musician. Better watch my step and adhere blindly to the contradictory govt guidelines. :rolleyes:

2ndcoming

The Nal wrote: »

Course they can. Pizza in those ovens take 90 seconds to cook and they can do 3 or 4 at a time. Dominos stores manage to make and deliver hundreds every night.

Call me crazy but I've a feeling the third best pizzas in Europe have a slightly more complicated production process than Domino's.

Tenzor07

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Oh I didn't know women were meant to get a free pass, thanks for letting me know Mr. White Knight.
I'll call out any poster, male or female that thinks that are above adherence to the regulations. If someone was posting that they were having 6/7 friends over weekly for beer, crisps and to watch football and then tried to explain it away, I'd express similar ire.

Anyone who doesn't strictly adhere to the NPHET-FFFG rules are gonna have to deal with you is it?

You went to town on Susieblue, someone who said she was having a few pals around for a little soiree...It was none of your business to jump on your high horse and judge her or anyone for it...
Once you stick to the rules yourself then let the authorities deal with those who don't.

Tenzor07

weldoninhio wrote: »

Holy Sh!t!!! An internet "call out" from Mr Musician. Better watch my step and adhere blindly to the contradictory govt guidelines. :rolleyes:

I'm sure I'll see him next Tuesday...:D

weldoninhio

Tenzor07 wrote: »

I'm sure I'll see him next Tuesday...:D

Calm down, you don't wanna be "called out" by an anonymous stranger on the internet!!!

joeguevara

2ndcoming wrote: »

Call me crazy but I've a feeling the third best pizzas in Europe have a slightly more complicated production process than Domino's.

Firstly it is 16th in Europe and not third. https://www.rte.ie/lifestyle/food/2020/0914/1165038-dublin-pizza-spot-named-in-top-20-pizzerias-in-europe/


Pizzas take 15 minutes in the oven and probably less than 5 minutes to prepare. Its the prep work in the sauce, the proper prooving of the dough, and sourcing of the best ingredients is all that it takes. There is no magic complicated production process. Also, the actual oven that is woodfired and not an electric or gas conveyor belt.

The Nal

2ndcoming wrote: »

Call me crazy but I've a feeling the third best pizzas in Europe have a slightly more complicated production process than Domino's.

Its the exact same. Flour, water yeast and toppings, put in the oven for 90 seconds and you have a pizza.

2ndcoming

The Nal wrote: »

Its the exact same. Flour, water yeast and toppings, put in the oven for 90 seconds and you have a pizza.

It isn't the exact same any more than a McDonald's double cheeseburger isn't the exact same as a €20 burger.