DCU or DCTC psychotherapy MSc?

orion_42

Hi all,

Can someone please advise me on which of these two psychotherapy trainings is most recommended: the MSc in Psychotherapy in DCU (IACP) or the MSc in Counselling and Psychotherapy in Dublin Counselling and Therapy Centre, Gardiner Street (IAHIP)?

I read through all the previous posts about psychotherapy training and can see there is a wealth of experience and information on boards.ie about this topic. I would really appreciate some advice as both seem like great trainings, but quite different.

I am looking for an integrative training that is deeply experiential in focus, rather than one that is overly academic and theoretical. I want to make sure I am turned upside down and inside out to become a really good therapist!

celbridge74

I didn't do either of the courses (did Turning Point instead which is very experiential). However, from what I've heard of the two courses you mention DCTC in Gardiner St is much more experiential than DCU. DCTC has been around for years and has an excellent reputation.

orion_42

Thanks for this advice celbridge74 - it helps alot!

djan

Would you consider the master's in ICHAS here: http://ichas.ie/course/m-a-in-counselling-psychotherapy/

owenlynch1310

Hi,

I was also looking at the DCTC course and the turning point course. I am finding it a bit confusing and not really sure which accreditation is better. Did you make a decision in the end?

celbridge74

IAHIP as an organisation of the Irish Council for Psychotherapy follows the standards required for the European Certificate of Psychotherapy so would have higher standards than IACP. 4 year Level 9 courses with 250 hours of personal therapy (combination of group and individual), 500 hours of clinical practice etc.

DCU is a level 9 course so assume they mustn’t have met the other criteria as they are accredited only by IACP. Both DCTC and Turning Point are accredited by IAHIP. Turning Point is also accredited by IACP but DCTC no longer is. That wouldn’t stop you being accredited with IACP as you can apply with a non accredited course once it meets the criteria. The previous DCTC diploma course which is now a masters was - so assume DCTC doesn’t want to pay the fee for course accreditation.

Hopefully statutory regulation will be in place by the time you graduate so everyone will be registered by CORU instead- which fingers crossed will make things much clearer!

Assumequote="owenlynch1310;114124233"]Hi,

I was also looking at the DCTC course and the turning point course. I am finding it a bit confusing and not really sure which accreditation is better. Did you make a decision in the end?[/quote]

owenlynch1310

Great! thanks for the info. So I have pretty much narrowed it down to either turning point, DCTC or DBS. To be honest a lot of people recommend the turning point one the only thing turning me off it is that it works out a good bit more expensive. I was wondering how you. are finding the course? would you recommend it?

endacl

djan wrote: »

Would you consider the master's in ICHAS here: http://ichas.ie/course/m-a-in-counselling-psychotherapy/

Until CORU arrives for the field, no professional body provides accreditation for that course. ICHAS have, since they set it up, very skilfully just-about-avoided saying that.

celbridge74

I finished Turning Point a few years ago and really loved it. The fact it was taught one weekend a month rather than weekly attendance made it more manageable for me than the others. However the three you’ve mentioned are very good and are all IAHIP accredited. See which still have vacancies for the autumn and go with your gut. Best of luck!

owenlynch1310 wrote: »

Great! thanks for the info. So I have pretty much narrowed it down to either turning point, DCTC or DBS. To be honest a lot of people recommend the turning point one the only thing turning me off it is that it works out a good bit more expensive. I was wondering how you. are finding the course? would you recommend it?

CBear1993

Doesn’t PCI do part time options like 2 evenings a week also? Not sure what their reputation is like

Also Griffith college in Dublin do a Counselling and psychotherapy course 2 days per week for 3 years

CBear1993

celbridge74 wrote: »

I finished Turning Point a few years ago and really loved it. The fact it was taught one weekend a month rather than weekly attendance made it more manageable for me than the others. However the three you’ve mentioned are very good and are all IAHIP accredited. See which still have vacancies for the autumn and go with your gut. Best of luck!

Hi, I see it’s one weekend per month, was yours a Friday 1:30-8, then sat & sun 10-6?

Would be tough going!

I’m looking at PCI which has a Saturday option and a Wednesday option. The Wednesday is 2-8pm 5 weeks on and a week off.

celbridge74

PCI has a good reputation too. I just wanted a Masters Level course. Also for me the weekend once a month worked. It was intense while in but then didn’t have another one til next month. With my family young at the time it just fitted in better for me time wise.

CBear1993 wrote: »

Hi, I see it’s one weekend per month, was yours a Friday 1:30-8, then sat & sun 10-6?

Would be tough going!

I’m looking at PCI which has a Saturday option and a Wednesday option. The Wednesday is 2-8pm 5 weeks on and a week off.

CBear1993

Great to hear, are you practicing now? Once you finished, did you have to do a year or two as a trainee before you could go out on your own?

I am looking at PCI very strongly. I think they only require you to do 50 hrs personal therapy

celbridge74

Yes I’m practicing now. It takes a year or two after training to build up enough hours for accreditation but I was able to get paid work at that time as well as keeping up my voluntary placement after graduation. I had to do 140 hours therapy hours during the course to meet IAHIP requirements but don’t regret having to do them at all even with the cost and found them really beneficial. Best of luck with your decision!

CBear1993 wrote: »

Great to hear, are you practicing now? Once you finished, did you have to do a year or two as a trainee before you could go out on your own?

I am looking at PCI very strongly. I think they only require you to do 50 hrs personal therapy

SuperRabbit

The DBS / PCI / IICP masters all require an undergrad qualification in counselling, if that helps narrow it down

Aron722

What is the salary for a psychotherapist , looked online and seems very low 38k -40k must be wrong I know if you own your own practice would be much higher once you can get the business,

Few few people go on to open up on there own though

SuperRabbit

That sounds right Aron, it sounds quite high even.

Look at the hours for the job being advertised as well and take that into account.

Bear in mind I'm still just a student so I could be wildly inaccurate about some of this: The person who gets that job will probably have a masters and lots of experience, this allows them to also teach part time at a local private collage, subsidising their income.

owenlynch1310

I am thinking of doing either the master at DCTC or the conversion course with DBS and masters in psychotherapy. They are both IAHIP accredited. I was siding with DBS just because they seem to provide a lot more info on the course. Anyone know anything about the DBS course?

SuperRabbit

Sorry I can't answer your question about DBS. I have a friend who did a psychology conversion course there and said they were great but very disorganised, but I think that's universal in Irish colleges and universities? Hmmm... Another thing is DBS have more psychoanalysis (Freud, Jung, etc) modules than any of the others, so if you are really into psychoanalysis that would be a good choice!

I just came back because I wanted to mention that there aren't enough men in counselling, not by a long shot, so there are plenty clients out there for men. Obviously that doesn't mean you don't have to also be good at your job, but it does mean that getting initial sessions with people will be easy. Something else to take into account

owenlynch1310

Hi thanks so much for getting back to me. I have also been look at occupational therapy as it seems to have a more defined career path and interest me a lot. If anyone knows anything about this also? it would be great to get some info from people in the area.

Jimmy Bottlehead

SuperRabbit wrote: »

Sorry I can't answer your question about DBS. I have a friend who did a psychology conversion course there and said they were great but very disorganised, but I think that's universal in Irish colleges and universities? Hmmm... Another thing is DBS have more psychoanalysis (Freud, Jung, etc) modules than any of the others, so if you are really into psychoanalysis that would be a good choice!

I just came back because I wanted to mention that there aren't enough men in counselling, not by a long shot, so there are plenty clients out there for men. Obviously that doesn't mean you don't have to also be good at your job, but it does mean that getting initial sessions with people will be easy. Something else to take into account

I did the psychology conversion course in DBS and found it excellent. No more or less organised than any other psych department I've been affiliated with.

Anyways the psychology and counselling/psychotherapy departments in DBS seem separate, so its a moot point.

As for you OP, you could benefit from looking at what you'd LIKE to do. Why psychotherapy? Why occupational therapy? Why not anything else?

owenlynch1310

Hi Jimmy,

I suppose as cliche as it sounds I would like to help people. I am a people person and after a lot of back and forth trying to force myself to like a business job I have realised that it doesn't line up with my values as a person. OT sparked my interest as I was speaking to someone who works in jigsaw and they said OT has a more defined career path and it involves helping people. I am also studying to be a yoga teacher and I am quite interested in the area of yoga and trauma etc.

Freedive Ireland

owenlynch1310 wrote: »

Hi Jimmy,
. I am also studying to be a yoga teacher and I am quite interested in the area of yoga and trauma etc.

We can say a lot of things about yoga but it isn't traumatic for everyone.:D

SuperRabbit

Last time I looked it was possible to do a Masters in OT in Limerick without an undergraduate in OT, an undergraduate in psychology or counselling would be considered, so you could have your cake and eat it too, assuming they don't plan to change that (all the other universities want an undergrad in OT afaik)

odonopenmic

I studied in Turning Point and I would not recommend it. A very negative learning environment.

From meeting various therapists - colleagues and peers - I've been most impressed with those coming out of DCTC. Highly experiential course which seems to produce very grounded, authentic and skillful practitioners. I get the impression DBS grads have a stronger CBT influence on the whole and perhaps less experiential experience and/or personal work. Obviously that's a big generalisation in both cases - just my impression from those I've come across.

SuperRabbit

That's interesting! From an outsider's perspective it looks like DBS is very psychoanalytic, just by looking at the number of modules they have on it. The BAs and BScs in counselling and psychotherapy ask for at least 50 hours of personal therapy while the MAs and MScs ask for at least 200. If you go the psychology route you can get away with never seeing a therapist at al!

Sallyobrien

odonopenmic wrote: »

I studied in Turning Point and I would not recommend it. A very negative learning environment.
.

What was negative about it, I had heard Turning Point is a very experiential type of training? What was it like finding work afterwards?

SuperRabbit

Personally I didn't hear anything negative about the Turning Point training but what I did hear was the price on the website is much lower than the real price, which you find out at interview (called the low ball technique in social psychology) but worse than that they then increase the price again during your 4 years, when it's too late to do anything about it and you've already invested a lot in the course (low ball on steroids!). Even if you happen to be a millionaire, that's really inconsiderate of students and really disrespectful. From a place that's "humanistic" !? hmmmm! While I'm procrastinating I should make an excel comparing all these places. Maybe a nice one on google drive that people can submit edits to or something like that

odonopenmic

Sallyobrien wrote: »

What was negative about it, I had heard Turning Point is a very experiential type of training? What was it like finding work afterwards?

For sure it is experiential and I thought this was a fantastic aspect of the course. No, the negativity was more the atmosphere. Tutors picking on students, everyone trying to play a game to pass the year(s), no transparency around grading, pass/fails. There was a real sense that you had to be careful - get on the wrong side of a tutor and irrespective of your skill you would be held back a year. So personally I found it a distraction from learning. At times it was confidence shattering.

Re finding work, no trouble with the usual caveat that you should seek accreditation to open more opportunities.

To be fair to them, re fees, I'd imagine a lot of the increases are to do with UCC capitation fees and not necessarily within Turning Point's gift to do anything about. I certainly don't think it’s as sinister as low-balling

SuperRabbit

Hmmm... Well I suppose maybe they just don't like updating the website, sometimes the person who builds the website first day has nothing to do with the business and no one on staff has access to it... But doesn't it look like low-balling when you only put the price of year one on the site and year one happens to be the cheapest year? I guess I shouldn't see malice when it could be more easily explained by the fact that the WordPress interface isn't the most user-friendly.

For what it's worth I never get that vibe off the lecturers at PCI, they have all been really compassionate with maybe one exception. You really get the feeling they want you to do well, that's really the atmosphere. I've only had that one lecturer who I wouldn't feel I would love to have as a personal counselor, they just all seem very caring and trustworthy and not remotely vindictive or needing to show the students who's boss and who's the most developed / differentiated / individuated. There has been that one exception, who I only saw 3 times. Sounds very similar to what you were talking about. "There's always one" as the saying goes.

If the masters vs bachelor's is an issue, you can still get a masters by going through DBS, PCI, IICP... it will cost about the same in total but will take 6 years instead of 4. I really really like the look of IICP. I love that their modules sound really practical, titles like "grief", "anxiety" rather than things like "family systems" "psychoanalysis". But I'm not a huge fan of choice theory so I am glad I'm not doing a module on that 6 to one half dozen to another I guess

Jimmy Bottlehead

SuperRabbit wrote: »

If you go the psychology route you can get away with never seeing a therapist at al!

I don't understand this; can you explain what you mean, please?

SuperRabbit

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

I don't understand this; can you explain what you mean, please?

I was being facetious about the fact not all psychology programs training people to talk/listen to other people include personal therapy as a requirement.

Jimmy Bottlehead

SuperRabbit wrote: »

I was being facetious about the fact not all psychology programs training people to talk/listen to other people include personal therapy as a requirement.

It is mandatory to complete a significant amount of personal therapy as part of the counselling psychology doctorate, and strongly advised that this is continued for life.

I believe it is similar, albeit the amount of therapy is not as significant, for at least one of the clinical psychology doctorates.
Both programs also incorporate group therapy as part of their curriculum.
I am unaware of the details pertaining to the educational psychology doctorate.

Are there other psychology programs you're referring to?

SuperRabbit

I don't think I've ever read anything about doctorates, I was thinking about the post grad diplomas and the masters, every time I looked them up I didn't see anything about personal therapy. Let's see.. first google result: https://www.tcd.ie/courses/postgraduate/az/course.php?id=DPPPS-COPS-1F09
Oh here we go! yeah personal therapy. This +a psychology undergrad qualifies you to be a counseling psychologist (but not to work with the HSE, afaik, you need a masters for that?)
well that's good, I'm quite happy to be completely wrong about that
and obviously you can study psychology for four years at undergraduate level and never get therapy, and sometimes modules related to therapy / clinical / applied psych are optional in the undergraduate anyway.

uff I wanted to go back and add an addendum to that older post to say I was wrong but I'm not allowed edit it because it's a few days old,I hope no one reads that without also reading this post / Jimmy's post

Jimmy Bottlehead

SuperRabbit wrote: »

I don't think I've ever read anything about doctorates, I was thinking about the post grad diplomas and the masters, every time I looked them up I didn't see anything about personal therapy. Let's see.. first google result: https://www.tcd.ie/courses/postgraduate/az/course.php?id=DPPPS-COPS-1F09
Oh here we go! yeah personal therapy. This +a psychology undergrad qualifies you to be a counseling psychologist (but not to work with the HSE, afaik, you need a masters for that?)
well that's good, I'm quite happy to be completely wrong about that
and obviously you can study psychology for four years at undergraduate level and never get therapy, and sometimes modules related to therapy / clinical / applied psych are optional in the undergraduate anyway.

uff I wanted to go back and add an addendum to that older post to say I was wrong but I'm not allowed edit it because it's a few days old,I hope no one reads that without also reading this post / Jimmy's post

Unfortunately, you're not correct. Soz.

The Doctorate in Counselling Psychology allows students who have completed HSE placements to work with the HSE, same as the Doctorate in Clinical Psychology or the Doctorate in Educational Psychology. Obviously there are innumerable other organisations all the aforementioned can practice in, but all are officially equitable as of a few years ago. It also looks likely funding for educational and counselling psychology trainees equitable to clinical psychology trainees will be secured in the coming years.

Undergraduate and Masters programmes in psychology don't have any sort of personal therapy aspect because, why would they? They're not designed for therapeutic practice, in Ireland at least. They're a gradually narrowing exposure to psychology across all fields; some Masters programs teach basic introduction to counselling or therapeutic skills, but that's as much as they need to do.

My overarching point is, if somebody aims to work in psychological research on road traffic systems, or psychometric assessment development or social psychology lecturing, there is no need to undergo mandatory personal therapy.

SuperRabbit

You said i was incorrect but then it sounds like you paraphrased what I said? I don't get it, sorry. what bit was incorrect?

Jimmy Bottlehead

SuperRabbit wrote: »

You said i was incorrect but then it sounds like you paraphrased what I said? I don't get it, sorry. what bit was incorrect?

That counselling psychologists can't work for the HSE without a masters. The post also addressed the lack of personal therapy at undergraduate and masters level.

SuperRabbit

Yeah of course there's no reason for them to have it at undergrad level, I wasn't even thinking about masters level.

Then you mentioned doctorates allowing people to work with the HSE, as I'd said. I didn't realize a post grad diploma also would, until you said it in your new post. Now I see where I was wrong, I didn't see anything about that in the other post, thanks! I had been told by a lecturer with a masters in counselling psychology that you couldn't work for the HSE without at least a masters in counselling psychology

missesti

orion_42 wrote: »

Hi all,

Can someone please advise me on which of these two psychotherapy trainings is most recommended: the MSc in Psychotherapy in DCU (IACP) or the MSc in Counselling and Psychotherapy in Dublin Counselling and Therapy Centre, Gardiner Street (IAHIP)?

I read through all the previous posts about psychotherapy training and can see there is a wealth of experience and information on boards.ie about this topic. I would really appreciate some advice as both seem like great trainings, but quite different.

I am looking for an integrative training that is deeply experiential in focus, rather than one that is overly academic and theoretical. I want to make sure I am turned upside down and inside out to become a really good therapist!

What have you decided at the end if I may ask?

I am looking into Psychotherapy Course myself and researching as we speak. Thanks