Building a 250sqm house for 250k. Possible? Already have land.

Mellor

Mellor wrote: »

Finishing it off of the next few year might not affect your cash flow, but that's money you aren't paying off you mortgage so the net effect is more or less the say.

320k Mortgage = 290k principle after 3 years. + 30k to finish

350k Mortgage = 321k principle after 3 years. 30k as additional repayments = 290k

In either case you are left with more or less the same debt after you finish as long as you put the you'd spend to finish off into the house anyway. The only costs involved in the latter is the interest on the extra 30k over 3 years, which is about 1k. And finishing it all at once might even save you 1k on pricing vrs in bits and pieces.

Thats assuming the extra money would go into the mortgage which it probably wouldn't and also that it would be possible to borrow the full amount to complete everything which it also may not.

People will have their own take on it but having the lower mortgage and finishing as you go makes a lot of sense to me, its more or less the done thing in selfbuids also. I remember I moved into my home house which was a self build as a very small child and it was 15 years later before a stairs was even put in never mind anything done upstairs. Similar for any friends with recent new builds all were done enough to be able to move in and left for the time being with only rooms being finished as needed. Now I wouldn't plan on waiting too long to complete either mind.

Cyrus wrote: »

With a small budget is there a reason you need a house that size ?

You could spend your building budget decorating and furnishing a house that size if you were that way inclined

You will probably only do this once so my advice would be to figure out what you really want , get a design that you actually like and work towards it rather than just throwing something up because it’s big. The majority of one off big builds in the countryside are eyesores so try not to fall into that trip .

Avoiding that will require paying an architect a few quid thought.

I think the very point you make "you will only do this once" is why it makes far more sense to build the house you want and the size you want. Even if you work of my process of only finishing what you needed initially you still have the space and the rooms and they can be completed when you have the money rather than making do with a smaller house and then needing to extend it or whatever down the line or just not being happy with it.

Also 250sq m would be considered a fairly average sized house for a self build, certainly not very big. It was my original target but couldn't get everything into the house that we wanted at that size so we had to increase.

Cyrus

Makai Quaint Ram wrote: »

Thats assuming the extra money would go into the mortgage which it probably would and also that it would be possible to borrow the full amount to complete everything which it also may not.

People will have their own take on it but having the lower mortgage and finishing as you go makes a lot of sense to me, its more or less the done thing in selfbuids also. I remember I moved into my home house which was a self build as a very small child and it was 15 years later before a stairs was even put in never mind anything done upstairs. Similar for any friends with recent new builds all were done enough to be able to move in and left for the time being with only rooms being finished as needed. Now I wouldn't plan on waiting too long to complete either mind.



I think the very point you make "you will only do this once" is why it makes far more sense to build the house you want and the size you want. Even if you work of my process of only finishing what you needed initially you still have the space and the rooms and they can be completed when you have the money rather than making do with a smaller house and then needing to extend it or whatever down the line or just not being happy with it.

Also 250sq m would be considered a fairly average sized house for a self build, certainly not very big. It was my original target but couldn't get everything into the house that we wanted at that size so we had to increase.

It’s all relative given urban house sizes but whatever you slice it nearly 3000 sq feet is a big house. I don’t think it’s too big but I do think it’s too big if you have a 250k budget.

I’m from the country too nox and when I go home I see the big houses everyone built that are from plans they bought on the internet for a few quid , no landscaping done , no proper driveway gate etc all because they built it too big to begin with and couldn’t afford the rest of it.

And 10/15 years on they still haven’t done any more.

I have no doubt that won’t be the case in your personal build but I’ve seen enough of them

JimmyVik

Some_randomer wrote: »

Hi @JimmyVik would you mind pm'ing me the name of the company in Germany that your friend used? I'm hoping to do the same thing in the near future. I've been looking at various prefab / pre-built companies in Ireland and abroad and there's a mind boggling amount of detail involved. Would be great to get details from someone that's been through it ��

I dont know the company. I never asked him at the time. This was about a year ago I met him in the local and was asking him about the house.


I'll see if I can get some pictures of similar houses. Im not likely to be talking to him too soon, but if i do i'll ask him the company name.

Edit :
I just looked up pictures on google and this is the closest I could find.
It looks most like this one, but wider and had a pitched roof and a flat car port. Huge windows in it. Looks amazing.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b6/4b/98/b64b98f279a4783ee95f9d4fc989954c.jpg

He did tell me that the crew came over with it and put it up in a few days.
Kitchen and bathrooms, wiring were already in the parts that were put together.
I think he had to do a load of stuff like foundations etc first and before the crew and house were shipped over a guy came to snag the work that had been done. Probably to make sure it was done properly so the house would fit.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b6/4b/98/b64b98f279a4783ee95f9d4fc989954c.jpg

dubrov

I had a look at German modular home companies like HufHaus and BauFritz before.

They build the houses in about 6 weeks once they arrive and they come with everything in them.
However, they did say there is a lot of time involved in agreeing the spec beforehand.
I think it would realistically still take about 5/6 months from start to finish.

The indicative cost was about double what a typical house would cost to build here so I stopped at that point.
I think these are premium brands so there are likely much cheaper options out there.

listermint

sydthebeat wrote: »

youll be building to A2 standard, under the NZEB regulations.

you cannot do that with unskilled cheap labour.

you will be looking at a minimum of a A2W heat pump, zoned underfloor heating, mechanical heat recovery ventilation, top level insulation and air tightness.

if you can do all these for €1500 / sq m you will be going very well

Firstly i would say the OPs budget is impossible given the image of his aspirations.

Secondly i would say building to current regulations using assorted labour is very possible. Talking in absolutes like above post is not reality.

listermint

Makai Quaint Ram wrote: »

Thats assuming the extra money would go into the mortgage which it probably would and also that it would be possible to borrow the full amount to complete everything which it also may not.

People will have their own take on it but having the lower mortgage and finishing as you go makes a lot of sense to me, its more or less the done thing in selfbuids also. I remember I moved into my home house which was a self build as a very small child and it was 15 years later before a stairs was even put in never mind anything done upstairs. Similar for any friends with recent new builds all were done enough to be able to move in and left for the time being with only rooms being finished as needed. Now I wouldn't plan on waiting too long to complete either mind.



I think the very point you make "you will only do this once" is why it makes far more sense to build the house you want and the size you want. Even if you work of my process of only finishing what you needed initially you still have the space and the rooms and they can be completed when you have the money rather than making do with a smaller house and then needing to extend it or whatever down the line or just not being happy with it.

Also 250sq m would be considered a fairly average sized house for a self build, certainly not very big. It was my original target but couldn't get everything into the house that we wanted at that size so we had to increase.

How does someone land at that size though? just looking at the neighbours..... or actually living and knowing what it is like to live in.

Countryside is absolutely dotted with one of eyesores with no landscaping no drive no gates. Open to all elements gardens with a childs slide dotted in the rear of an undulating muddy / grassy weedy lawn.

Cuddlesworth

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

About ten years ago, my brother built his house of approx 300sq.m. for around 250k. He claims it's a little less, at just over 200k, but reading some of the replies to this thread I'm suspecting he's underestimating some of the costs.

The problem with saying a house was built x years ago for x cost is that things can change so fast it gives very unrealistic expectations. And very few people factor in their own time or their friends, especially if they are already in the trade.

Build costs have significantly increased due to labour shortages and materials cost increases(thanks brexit). Building standards have also significantly increased in the last two decades, in enough small steps that the increased build price is deceptive.

hackersphorr

Dean91 wrote: »

Hi I'm a electrician by trade . I know a few people in the trade business that can help along the way.

Father in law will be doing the foundation as he is in that kind of work .

Brother in law is a plumber by trade just qualified .

Will probably use my friends dad to design it , he is a retired Architect

Hopeing to save in those areas , her family are use to building there own homes , I just wanted to get my head around it as prices have changed since they built there own homes .

I was born and raised in Dublin so I wouldn't know much about building my own home . First time for everything excited and nervous about the journey.

Okay so my follow on questions would be:

• Would you be comfortable completely wiring the house yourself - are you certified to sign on the electrics?
• Brother in law - newly qualified plumber - is he confident in laying a complete underfloor heating system?

My fear would be too many friends/family involved it would end up being a disaster. You could mitigate this by having very detailed plans drawn up (type of insulation, internal plaster finish etc) to reduce ambiguity.

Even still, you need to think in the 350k - 400k range. 250k is not realistic

listermint

listermint wrote: »

How does someone land at that size though? just looking at the neighbours..... or actually living and knowing what it is like to live in.

Countryside is absolutely dotted with one of eyesores with no landscaping no drive no gates. Open to all elements gardens with a childs slide dotted in the rear of an undulating muddy / grassy weedy lawn.

I don't know how others arrive at a size but for me its a combination of things like the size of my home house (around 2300 sq feet), what I want in the house (both in room size and the number of rooms), seeing friends or other family members houses (bigger and smaller), spending time living in small houses when house sharing etc etc. We had very good ideas of what we wanted in the house, we engaged with a good architect then to fit it all together into a nice design (after lots of back and fourth).

I have to say that in my area the type of scenario you describe is fairly rare with most houses well kept and having gardens nicely done(not necessarily by landscapers though, I will be doing our own gardens myself also). Like anywhere there is of course an odd house not well kept or with weeds in the drive etc but you see that everywhere not just the countryside.

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

The problem with saying a house was built x years ago for x cost is that things can change so fast it gives very unrealistic expectations. And very few people factor in their own time or their friends, especially if they are already in the trade.
.

My own time or family/friends who are helping out for free is not a cost so why would it be factored in? I would not be expecting anything done for free my friends in the trade either but I would be getting better pricing than the normal man in the street.

Billythekid19

Looked into it the prospect at building a 150 M house and the cost to build would be around 265k. However, the site would be 150k bringing it to 415k. However I can buy a 4 bed new build semi d off plans for 390 with no stress or heartache of project management so is a no brainer really.

listermint

Makai Quaint Ram wrote: »

My own time or family/friends who are helping out for free is not a cost so why would it be factored in? I would not be expecting anything done for free my friends in the trade either but I would be getting better pricing than the normal man in the street.

Of course is has to be factored in , otherwise your build costs are fabricated.

Not everyone has assistance to do any work at all. So if its not factored then made up figures become reality.

Claw Hammer

Makai Quaint Ram wrote: »

T

I remember I moved into my home house which was a self build as a very small child and it was 15 years later before a stairs was even put in never mind anything done upstairs.

How did you go from one floor to the other? Ladder, rope?

dubrov

Renata Ambitious Steamer wrote:

My own time or family/friends who are helping out for free is not a cost so why would it be factored in?

For you it's not but for others it likely is.

A lot of people like to think they got a great deal when building a house. When they state the build cost, they tend to leave out council, professional fees, landscaping, utility connections, flooring, tiling, carriers, painting, work they and their friends did etc.

It ends up giving people unrealistic expectations in relation to the cost to build and they usually get a shock when they get real quotes back from builders

Some_randomer

JimmyVik wrote: »

I dont know the company. I never asked him at the time. This was about a year ago I met him in the local and was asking him about the house.


I'll see if I can get some pictures of similar houses. Im not likely to be talking to him too soon, but if i do i'll ask him the company name.

Edit :
I just looked up pictures on google and this is the closest I could find.
It looks most like this one, but wider and had a pitched roof and a flat car port. Huge windows in it. Looks amazing.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b6/4b/98/b64b98f279a4783ee95f9d4fc989954c.jpg

He did tell me that the crew came over with it and put it up in a few days.
Kitchen and bathrooms, wiring were already in the parts that were put together.
I think he had to do a load of stuff like foundations etc first and before the crew and house were shipped over a guy came to snag the work that had been done. Probably to make sure it was done properly so the house would fit.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b6/4b/98/b64b98f279a4783ee95f9d4fc989954c.jpg

Thanks @JimmyVik would be great if you could get a company name ��

listermint

listermint wrote: »

Of course is has to be factored in , otherwise your build costs are fabricated.

Not everyone has assistance to do any work at all. So if its not factored then made up figures become reality.

You can only really go by your own numbers when discussing build costs, it will be different for everyone based on different factors.

Claw Hammer wrote: »

How did you go from one floor to the other? Ladder, rope?

Ladder if access was needed, it was only used for storage and wasn't even partitioned into rooms until the stairs was put in. The house was large enough downstairs to accommodate everything until then, its not two-story more 1.5.

kerry_man15

First one for sure...other two can be seen everywhere and are bland.

hackersphorr

dubrov wrote: »

For you it's not but for others it likely is.

A lot of people like to think they got a great deal when building a house. When they state the build cost, they tend to leave out council, professional fees, landscaping, utility connections, flooring, tiling, carriers, painting, work they and their friends did etc.

It ends up giving people unrealistic expectations in relation to the cost to build and they usually get a shock when they get real quotes back from builders

This sums it up perfectly. Very hard to get a true cost as people never actually factor in all costs. Then this gives other people a totally misguided view of how much it costs to build. And don't get me started on people talking exVAT prices:D

kerry_man15

Mellor wrote: »

If they didn't complete it, then they didn.t do it for that price.



Why are you set on 250sqm?
I'd rather a normal sized house designed and built well than a large house where you had to cut corners.

100%

awec

Just on the friends doing work thing OP, you say your brother in law is newly qualified as a plumber, so you'd need to be very confident that he's capable of doing a domestic installation as a nixer.

Also, it goes without saying, getting things done by friends and family makes getting recourse when things to wrong a bit more awkward. Worth bearing in mind, there are great ways to save money but I think there are some jobs you should leave to someone that you can chase afterwards if you are unhappy and not be worrying about getting invited to christmas dinner.

PhoenixParker

In terms of house size, i would definitely start there. Too big a house is a nuisance and a long term cost on multiple levels.

There's a sweet spot in house design somewhere around or below 700sqft for the first person and 300sqft for each additional person. As a rough for instance, for the first person that gives 3 10×15ft rooms (kitchen/dining, sitting room, bedroom) with 250sqft left to play with for halls, storage and bathrooms. Every extra person then gets another 10ft×15ft bedroom + 150sqft to add to common areas around the house.

2 adults 4 kids checks in at 2200sqft or just over 200sqm. You can also start at a house size suitable for 2 adults/2 kids with a plan in mind for where&how it could be extended rather than spending €€€€ on building rooms you may never need.

dubrov

dubrov wrote: »

For you it's not but for others it likely is.

A lot of people like to think they got a great deal when building a house. When they state the build cost, they tend to leave out council, professional fees, landscaping, utility connections, flooring, tiling, carriers, painting, work they and their friends did etc.

It ends up giving people unrealistic expectations in relation to the cost to build and they usually get a shock when they get real quotes back from builders

What I mean is there is no point trying to put a cost on it. My cost will be my cost. I never said it shouldn't be stated that people do stuff themselves and of course people getting pricing need to keep this in mind. My point was more that I dont see any value in guessing a number of how much was saved and adding it on.

Better for someone getting pricing to get a price and then start figuring where they could knock it down by doing stuff themselves.

PhoenixParker wrote: »

In terms of house size, i would definitely start there. Too big a house is a nuisance and a long term cost on multiple levels.

There's a sweet spot in house design somewhere around or below 700sqft for the first person and 300sqft for each additional person. As a rough for instance, for the first person that gives 3 10×15ft rooms (kitchen/dining, sitting room, bedroom) with 250sqft left to play with for halls, storage and bathrooms. Every extra person then gets another 10ft×15ft bedroom + 150sqft to add to common areas around the house.

2 adults 4 kids checks in at 2200sqft or just over 200sqm. You can also start at a house size suitable for 2 adults/2 kids with a plan in mind for where&how it could be extended rather than spending €€€€ on building rooms you may never need.

I personally wouldn't agree especially on thinking about extending before you even build, just build it big enough to start with. Just for context you have 10x15ft for the kitchen, my planned kitchen is 15x39ft. Not saying someone needs to go that big but I wouldn't be using vague calculations based on number of people, look at the functionality you want, the space you want etc etc.

Build as big as you can afford would be my advice, you never hear people complain they built too big but you hear lots complain about not having enough space and then having to extend or convert attics etc etc.

kerry_man15

Most Irish people seem obsessed with how big their house is. One of the first questions is always "how many square feet is it?" Seems like a competition to outdo each other. I've seen lots of huge houses with cheap finishes or not fully finished but of course people think it's great because it's .....sq feet etc.
I'd much rather a smaller house with high quality fixtures and fittings.

shesty

Dean91 wrote: »

Hi I'm a electrician by trade . I know a few people in the trade business that can help along the way.

Father in law will be doing the foundation as he is in that kind of work .

Brother in law is a plumber by trade just qualified .

Will probably use my friends dad to design it , he is a retired Architect

Hopeing to save in those areas , her family are use to building there own homes , I just wanted to get my head around it as prices have changed since they built there own homes .

I was born and raised in Dublin so I wouldn't know much about building my own home . First time for everything excited and nervous about the journey.

Engineer here. OH and I were discussing this the other day.We figure we would be lucky to squeeze something at 200sqm. into that size of a budget based on the fact that we would call in favours, know how to sequence and manage the build, be aware of potential pitfalls (even at that there would always be something that would bite us in the a$$) and be able to take some shortcuts around things like needing an architect to do detail drawings for elements of the house.

A lot of it is in the planning.A lot of time spent reviewing drawings, picturing where clashes in head heights/walls/doors/services will occur, planning locations of services, having good detailed drawings for window and door opes, roof details, eaves details - all that will save you money trying to fix mistakes as you go along.QS work too - itemising everything before you start right down to the number of light fixtures, door handles, sockets, the works.Pricing in floors and basic painting.Stair handrails, joinery, all that stuff. Connections to utilities- water/drainage/sewage, whatever your options are.Even at that there will always be something unforeseen.But if your budget is tight, that is the work you should put time into before you get near site.Calling in favours from friends and family leaves you very open if problems happen, and will also require a lot of planning to sequence it all in and coordinate the different trades and contractors on your part. It is a full time job for engineers and foremen on a building site and there is a reason for that.

PhoenixParker

Makai Quaint Ram wrote: »

I personally wouldn't agree especially on thinking about extending before you even build, just build it big enough to start with. Just for context you have 10x15ft for the kitchen, my planned kitchen is 15x39ft. Not saying someone needs to go that big but I wouldn't be using vague calculations based on number of people, look at the functionality you want, the space you want etc etc.

Build as big as you can afford would be my advice, you never hear people complain they built too big but you hear lots complain about not having enough space and then having to extend or convert attics etc etc.

You seem so anxious to provide your own context you ignored my context.
My 15ftx10ft kitchen is for a single person living alone, unless you truly believe a single person living alone should have a 15ftx39ft kitchen?

2 adults, 2 kids - 1600sqft. Let’s suppose the kitchen is their priority and takes up 585sqft like yours. They will still have 1015sqft to play around with for bedrooms, dens, bathrooms, halls, storage . . . There's more than enough space if you use it wisely. If you don't use it wisely then no amount of space will be enough.

I know plenty of people who will quietly admit their house is too big. The OPs budget is tight. It needs to be focused on what will definitely be used not notional space left to acquire damp for 15 years.

Cyrus

Makai Quaint Ram wrote: »

I personally wouldn't agree especially on thinking about extending before you even build, just build it big enough to start with. Just for context you have 10x15ft for the kitchen, my planned kitchen is 15x39ft. Not saying someone needs to go that big but I wouldn't be using vague calculations based on number of people, look at the functionality you want, the space you want etc etc.

Build as big as you can afford would be my advice, you never hear people complain they built too big but you hear lots complain about not having enough space and then having to extend or convert attics etc etc.

but your advice is to build it too big to start with?

if you needed the space you wouldnt be able to leave it unfinished.

PhoenixParker

PhoenixParker wrote: »

2 adults, 2 kids - 1600sqft. Let’s suppose the kitchen is their priority and takes up 585sqft like yours. They will still have 1015sqft to play around with for bedrooms, dens, bathrooms, halls, storage . . . There's more than enough space if you use it wisely. If you don't use it wisely then no amount of space will be enough.

1600 sq ft is a small house to me anyway, 50 sq ft more than the downstairs only of my house which has no bedrooms, no office etc. We aren't a family of 4 either.

Each to their own but having grown up in a 2300 sq ft house and then spent some time living in much smaller but what some consider adequately sided family homes either sharing with 2 others or with just with my wife - making do with small spaces and lacking rooms is not something that interests me, if fact it frustrates me a lot trying to manage with small cramped rooms etc.

Cyrus wrote: »

but your advice is to build it too big to start with?

if you needed the space you wouldn't be able to leave it unfinished.

That's not really true, you can make do for while without having what you want that's not the same as not needing something. Example everyone needs a living room to relax in the evening, as do I but since our kitchen will also have an open plan living area in it that will be ok to begin with but I certainly would not like it to be my only living room.

PhoenixParker

PhoenixParker wrote: »

2 adults, 2 kids - 1600sqft. Let’s suppose the kitchen is their priority and takes up 585sqft like yours. They will still have 1015sqft to play around with for bedrooms, dens, bathrooms, halls, storage . . . There's more than enough space if you use it wisely. If you don't use it wisely then no amount of space will be enough.

1600 sq ft is a small house to me anyway, 50 sq ft more than the downstairs only of my plan which has no bedrooms, no office etc. We aren't a family of 4 either.

Each to their own but having spend some time living in what some consider adequately sided family homes either sharing with 2 others or with just my wife making do with small spaces and lacking rooms is not something that interests me.

Cyrus wrote: »

but your advice is to build it too big to start with?

if you needed the space you wouldn't be able to leave it unfinished.

That's not really true, you can make do for while without having what you want that's not the same as not needing something. Example everyone wants a living room to relax in, as do I but since our kitchen will also have an open plan living area in it that will be ok to begin with but I certainly would not like it to be my only living room. Similar you could manage without a finished main bathroom when you have en-suites but its not really practical to not have a main bathroom either long term.

JimmyVik

Claw Hammer wrote: »

How did you go from one floor to the other? Ladder, rope?

I know someone who did just that for about 3 years after they moved into their house. A ladder where the stairs was eventually put in.
At bed time the kids would go off up the ladder to their bedroom.

Reminded me of little house on the prairie.

Mellor

Makai Quaint Ram wrote: »

Thats assuming the extra money would go into the mortgage which it probably would and also that it would be possible to borrow the full amount to complete everything which it also may not.

You were talking about using the money to finish off the house. So in that example its going into the house, so the mortgage options is like for like.
Having the land sorted would make things easier with the bank.

But if somebody genuinely couldn't afford a 30k extra mortgage, then there is no way they'll have 30k to put into the house in the first few years.

People will have their own take on it but having the lower mortgage and finishing as you go makes a lot of sense to me, its more or less the done thing in selfbuids also.

after 3 years the mortgage isn't lower. That's the point.

There are other factors why people end up doing it. Cash flow, puttng the build on pause, overspend. Now of those are positive reasons.

listermint wrote: »

Secondly i would say building to current regulations using assorted labour is very possible. Talking in absolutes like above post is not reality.

He said unskilled labour, not assorted labour.

You can self manage a build and employ elite specialists.
That's on an other planet to using unskilled random labour.

Makai Quaint Ram wrote: »

I personally wouldn't agree especially on thinking about extending before you even build, just build it big enough to start with. Just for context you have 10x15ft for the kitchen, my planned kitchen is 15x39ft. Not saying someone needs to go that big but I wouldn't be using vague calculations based on number of people, look at the functionality you want, the space you want etc etc.

Your not building a 1 bed, so the kitchen wouldn't be 10x15ft.

They aren't really vague calculations. They are occupancy ratios. It's pretty standard to design the area required for a space based on occupants.
How you split that area is based on the functionality you want.

Mellor

Mellor wrote: »

You were talking about using the money to finish off the house. So in that example its going into the house, so the mortgage options is like for like.
Having the land sorted would make things easier with the bank.

But if somebody genuinely couldn't afford a 30k extra mortgage, then there is no way they'll have 30k to put into the house in the first few years.


after 3 years the mortgage isn't lower. That's the point.

There are other factors why people end up doing it. Cash flow, puttng the build on pause, overspend. Now of those are positive reasons.

That's not quite true as affording a mortgage and getting a mortgage are two very different things. The 3.5 times salary is an issue for many which is different to being able to afford.

I didn't suggest the mortgage would be lower but as above your mortgage is limited by a multiplier that doesn't mean there isn't extra money available to spend, doesn't account for salary increases or other income sources that the bank don't count etc. Also it means your fixed, must pay every month without fail mortgage payment kept lower.