Second hand tractors are gone expensive

Castlekeeper

Castlekeeper wrote: »

For basic farm work this looks like good value. Given that you'd buy it for a little less and you'd have a loader on it for another 6-7k, it would be as good as new for c.€38k, if it's straight.

https://www.donedeal.ie/tractors-for-sale/tractor/26724918

Sorry!

cute geoge

Castlekeeper wrote: »

https://www.donedeal.ie/tractors-for-sale/tractor/26724918

Sorry!

As far as I know there are 3 specs of New holland in them models .Seems strange there Is no mention of what model it is .For all we know It could be similar model to the turkish built td.
edit It is td105 so run a mile

Grueller

cute geoge wrote: »

As far as I know there are 3 specs of New holland in them models .Seems strange there Is no mention of what model it is .For all we know It could be similar model to the turkish built td

It is a Turkish built TD5.105. I would put a Tumosan or an Armatrac on a par with them almost.

Dunedin

cute geoge wrote: »

As far as I know there are 3 specs of New holland in them models .Seems strange there Is no mention of what model it is .For all we know It could be similar model to the turkish built td.
edit It is td105 so run a mile

How do the TS105 compare with the TD 105. ?

Are the TS model a decent tractor?

Castlekeeper

Grueller wrote: »

It is a Turkish built TD5.105. I would put a Tumosan or an Armatrac on a par with them almost.

Jaysus!!!
That's scary stuff, so much for a NH holding their value.
It looks the exact same as a Case JXU inside, are you sure those ones are not Italian made as well? The later Case JX models were made in Italy.

MIKEKC

Anyone know how much an Ursus 11054 110hp, 2015 with loader 1100 hours in good condition would be worth

Grueller

Anyone able to tell me the exact story with importing from across the water now with regards to VAT. I assume it must be paid in England and in Ireland again?

K.G.

Grueller wrote: »

Anyone able to tell me the exact story with importing from across the water now with regards to VAT. I assume it must be paid in England and in Ireland again?

My understanding is vat is charged in the uk now regardless whereas up to this irish vat registered parties could buy without paying the vat in the uk and the vat on its sale in ireland.however my understanding is that vat registered irish parties can reclaim or at get a credit for the uk vat they have paid.however there is now a requirement to have a cert to say that machine is free from any soil or dirt.this is gor biosecurity reason and nothing to do with brexit

Grueller

K.G. wrote: »

My understanding is vat is charged in the uk now regardless whereas up to this irish vat registered parties could buy without paying the vat in the uk and the vat on its sale in ireland.however my understanding is that vat registered irish parties can reclaim or at get a credit for the uk vat they have paid.however there is now a requirement to have a cert to say that machine is free from any soil or dirt.this is gor biosecurity reason and nothing to do with brexit

So for non VAT registered buyers there is really no change then. VAT is paid on the UK side and not here?

K.G.

Grueller wrote: »

So for non VAT registered buyers there is really no change then. VAT is paid on the UK side and not here?

As far as i can see.no duty went on secondhand tractors.its just a cashflow thing for dealers.before they didnt pay the vat until they had it in the hand,now they have to fork most of it out before the tractor leaves the uk yard.so a tractor bought in england for 20 k +vat now costs them 25 k whereas before itwas only 20k.so the cost of stocking their yard has gone up by 20 % but the retail price should still be similar.in theory they now mainly pay vat on their margin after sale

lab man

Any knowledge on mc cormick tractors lads something about 115 hp tks in advance lab man

hopeso

lab man wrote: »

Any knowledge on mc cormick tractors lads something about 115 hp tks in advance lab man

Depending on it's age, it's either a Case IH or a Landini....

Ard_MC

hopeso wrote: »

Depending on it's age, it's either a Case IH or a Landini....

What years be based on the Case?

hopeso

Ard_MC wrote: »

What years be based on the Case?

Roughly between 2000 and 2008 I think. But it should be easy enough to tell by looking at them.

funkey_monkey

Recent ones have a beta power engine which is the same as landini and new Holland . Zf transmission.
I think the new ones have deutz engines. Good machine. You'll get a better spec with them than nh or Massey for the money.

Reggie is the man in the know as he has a landini which is a blue mccormick.

jimmy G M

funkey_monkey wrote: »

Reggie is the man in the know as he has a landini which is a blue mccormick.

I think Reggie would be saying a McCormick is a red Landini.

straight

jimmy G M wrote: »

I think Reggie would be saying a McCormick is a red Landini.

I wouldn't think much of anything Italian apart from pizza. The early McCormicks looked like the mx 135 and they were supposed to be a great machine.

kevthegaff

straight wrote: »

I wouldn't think much of anything Italian apart from pizza. The early McCormicks looked like the mx 135 and they were supposed to be a great machine.

I'd beg to differ on the fiats and the women

K.G.

Grueller wrote: »

Anyone able to tell me the exact story with importing from across the water now with regards to VAT. I assume it must be paid in England and in Ireland again?

There will be huge gaps in the conversation s with northern based tractor dealers as they used to regularly remind you that there was no vat if there was a vat number available

straight

kevthegaff wrote: »

I'd beg to differ on the fiats and the women

Fix It Again Tomorrow. Men and women are the same all over the world. Of course every good rule always has an exception. I'm disillusioned by the prices of second hand tractors at the moment. Going to wait for the inevitable recession after vaccination is completed.

visatorro

kevthegaff wrote:

I'd beg to differ on the fiats and the women

Iv had a fiat and several women, they all broke me heart and cost me money!

straight

visatorro wrote: »

Iv had a fiat and several women, they all broke me heart and cost me money!

Well that's what happens if it has tits or wheels.

The Rabbi

kevthegaff wrote: »

I'd beg to differ on the fiats and the women

As the Fiats aged they fell asunder and got lighter,Itialiano Mama's went the other way.

Castlekeeper

The Rabbi wrote: »

As the Fiats aged they fell asunder and got lighter,Itialiano Mama's went the other way.

...:heavier and tighter?

Reggie.

straight wrote: »

I wouldn't think much of anything Italian apart from pizza. The early McCormicks looked like the mx 135 and they were supposed to be a great machine.

Each to thier own

Reggie.

jimmy G M wrote: »

I think Reggie would be saying a McCormick is a red Landini.

Atm the two are the same only the styling is different. McCormicks are a little more expensive but seem to have a few little extras as the big ones are aimed towards tillage as the landini are aimed towards dairy and stock men.

Only thing I know on this topic is from one of the landini mechanics. The early McCormicks were supposed to be badly designed before and soon after landini took it over. It was his opinion. After all he was the man working on them

jaymla627

straight wrote: »

Fix It Again Tomorrow. Men and women are the same all over the world. Of course every good rule always has an exception. I'm disillusioned by the prices of second hand tractors at the moment. Going to wait for the inevitable recession after vaccination is completed.

The agricultural market doesn't track the real world, and with commodity prices especially tillage on the up I wouldn't be banking on cheap tractors anytime soon, brother bought another lorry recently a 172 plate fully loaded iveco 460 with 110k for 44k plus vat the same lorry new today is 115k plus vat, if the above example was a tractor it would still be worth nearly 100k

Bass Reeves

jaymla627 wrote: »

The agricultural market doesn't track the real world, and with commodity prices especially tillage on the up I wouldn't be banking on cheap tractors anytime soon, brother bought another lorry recently a 172 plate fully loaded iveco 460 with 110k for 44k plus vat the same lorry new today is 115k plus vat, if the above example was a tractor it would still be worth nearly 100k

I think the tractor price is a exaggeration and the truck price an outlier. The truck will be scraped after 15-20 years at most but tractors have 30 year lifespans and longer. Problem with agriculture is it accepts the inroads into it margins. Industries servicing us are not willing to accept the margins we put up.

For the last 20 years and longer efficiency has been seen as the answer to farm profitability. More cattle, earlier finishing, more land bigger machinery, higher stocking rates etc etc. Very few people do a cost benefit analysis before spending money and not only do they not do that they they do not allow for the extra hours work that they need to do to justify that machine.
A farm with 80k in machinery borrowings paying 4.5% interest over an average of 6 years repayment timescales is paying 16k in repayments per year before running, repair and maybe labour costs are added into the equation.

straight

jaymla627 wrote: »

The agricultural market doesn't track the real world, and with commodity prices especially tillage on the up I wouldn't be banking on cheap tractors anytime soon, brother bought another lorry recently a 172 plate fully loaded iveco 460 with 110k for 44k plus vat the same lorry new today is 115k plus vat, if the above example was a tractor it would still be worth nearly 100k

There was always great value in second hand trucks. Haulage must be more profitable than farming if their all able to buy the new ones.

Donald Trump

straight wrote: »

There was always great value in second hand trucks. Haulage must be more profitable than farming if their all able to buy the new ones.

Break downs in haulage probably have potential to cause even more heartache.



Pain in the arse if your baler breaks in the middle of a big job when the rain clouds are coming across the horizon, but breaking down in France with an expensive load of perishables on the back is probably a level above.

patsy_mccabe

Covert trucks to tractors. How hard could it be?

blue5000

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Covert trucks to tractors. How hard could it be?

Ya I was thinking the same thing, we could call it a fastrac:D Seen a few old photos of scut trucks after WWII.

Castlekeeper

straight wrote: »

There was always great value in second hand trucks. Haulage must be more profitable than farming if their all able to buy the new ones.

It would seem surprisingly good dosh alright. Two local lads here, running a few trucks each, neither the brightest, one doing agribusiness and the other doing longhaul, both appear minted, spending away goodo, and more power to them.
I would have thought it would be a cut-throat business though.

straight

Castlekeeper wrote: »

It would seem surprisingly good dosh alright. Two local lads here, running a few trucks each, neither the brightest, one doing agribusiness and the other doing longhaul, both appear minted, spending away goodo, and more power to them.
I would have thought it would be a cut-throat business though.

We're all used to hearing about these low margin businesses but I'm afraid farming beats them all hands down. U see all the small retailers, cafes, etc. They all have plenty staff. Heard a lad in an interview one day saying he could make his business work with less staff but he'd have to be there himself 6 days a week so it wasn't worth it. I'm afraid the farmer is the only fool doing it all himself for phuck all return.

bogman_bass

Majority of restaurants last less than 5 years. You couldn’t say that about farms

straight

bogman_bass wrote: »

Majority of restaurants last less than 5 years. You couldn’t say that about farms

Ya, we just keep digging. Keep working harder to stay in the same place.

straight

Mx135 looks like good value. 5k hours.

https://www.donedeal.ie/tractors-for-sale/mccormick-mc-135-power-6/26215135

lab man

I'm thinking of a 2006 mc cormick mc 115 if I can get a tidy one I think they have a perkins engine?

Dinzee Conlee

straight wrote: »

Ya, we just keep digging. Keep working harder to stay in the same place.

Or are restauranteurs just smarter and pull the pin quicker?

Grueller

https://www.donedeal.ie/tractors-for-sale/2009-new-holland-t6030-hrs6594-q40-quicke-loader/27043508

The above is a 12 year old tractor. It is €42,900. It is the ideal size tractor for a modern dairy/stock farmer.

https://obrienstractors.com/new-holland-t6-125s/

The second option is a brand new t6.125s. 117hp, no boost. Again an ideal machine for a modern dairy/stock farm. This with a quicke Q5m loader with soft drive, multi dock, self levelling, 3rd service and electronic joystick can be bought for €82,500.

The first one is maybe not the cheapest 2nd hand that you will find but it is hard to find tractors with prices listed. The differ is €39,500. That is a serious wedge of cash. However in another 12 years I would have similar hours on the new one. It should still be worth €42,500 judging by the above. That is €40k in ownership costs or €3600 per year. It will also have cheaper financing options than a second hand one.

The second hand option above in 12 years will be a 24 year old machine with 13,000 hours if I bought her. I would say €18,000 value? Somebody correct me if I am wrong. That is €24,900 in ownership costs. €2075 per year in ownership costs. Higher finance plus a shorter payment term available.
On high tax writing off depreciation over 8 years the final difference in cost of ownership, coupled with hopefully lower maintenance costs (that generation of t6 NH were dieselaholics as well) would leve the difference between the two not as big as you would expect on first viewing in my opinion. Just my opinion mind.

TooOldBoots

straight wrote: »

Mx135 looks like good value. 5k hours.

https://www.donedeal.ie/tractors-for-sale/mccormick-mc-135-power-6/26215135

Big horse of a tractor, the 6 pot would be ideal for pto heavy jobs like running an Agitator

lab man wrote: »

I'm thinking of a 2006 mc cormick mc 115 if I can get a tidy one I think they have a perkins engine?

yes it has an intercooled perkins 1104c-44t, great engine but not a Contractor spec tractor @ 115hp

jaymla627

Castlekeeper wrote: »

It would seem surprisingly good dosh alright. Two local lads here, running a few trucks each, neither the brightest, one doing agribusiness and the other doing longhaul, both appear minted, spending away goodo, and more power to them.
I would have thought it would be a cut-throat business though.

A lot of lads are working away on the drip, but 2020 was a great year with diseal prices down so low, averaged out at 3k a month of a saving versus 2019 here

ruwithme

It would i suppose come down to where you are at financially. Meeting the repayments on the new tractor verus the 2nd hand.

Some maybe stretching themselves even on the 2nd hand one,but buying is the right decision if it's what's needed.

Mooooo

Risk of buying a newer secondhand also may not reduce the maintenance costs either. At least with new there would be some bjt of a warranty and you can maintain it to your own standards. Still the inflation on machinery compared to farm output is serious.

hopeso

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

Or are restauranteurs just smarter and pull the pin quicker?

It's easier to shut the door and walk away from a rented building than it is to walk away from a farm that's been handed down.......

Robson99

https://www.donedeal.ie/tractors-for-sale/case-cx80/26838719
Doesn't seem too bad of value though hours a bit high

Who2

straight wrote: »

Mx135 looks like good value. 5k hours.

https://www.donedeal.ie/tractors-for-sale/mccormick-mc-135-power-6/26215135

I’d find it hard to believe the hours on that tractor.it may be genuine but it looks too good to be true for a tractor of that size.

Bass Reeves

Robson99 wrote: »

https://www.donedeal.ie/tractors-for-sale/case-cx80/26838719
Doesn't seem too bad of value though hours a bit high

Would not consider the hours High. The minute they are started they start adding hours. 7.5k hours is only 300hours a year. That the original seat in it unless they replaced it a few years ago with a new case seat. It plus vat add in sterling difference and she is costing 18k with no loader. I would not consider her good value. However she looks a straight tractor. 14-15k would be the value of her. Would not be the strongest tractor but we'll capable of lifting a bale. I want a loader on her for that money

Bass Reeves

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

Or are restauranteurs just smarter and pull the pin quicker?

It's easier with limited status and no skin ninth game if renting. Lads coukdbhave 2-3 gastro pubs or restaurants all in different companies. If you decide to pull the plug on one you can move some of the stock and equipment to one of the other businesses to keep them on the road

Robson99

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Would not consider the hours High. The minute they are started they start adding hours. 7.5k hours is only 300hours a year. That the original seat in it unless they replaced it a few years ago with a new case seat. It plus vat add in sterling difference and she is costing 18k with no loader. I would not consider her good value. However she looks a straight tractor. 14-15k would be the value of her. Would not be the strongest tractor but we'll capable of lifting a bale. I want a loader on her for that money

Bass you will get sweet **** all now for 14 -15k. I know you bought a Mccormick with a loader a couple of years ago sub 20k. You would be paying 20k+ for that now. Very hard to get nice clean 4wd tractor 80 - 90 hi under 17/ 18k and 20k + with a loader