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Defund RTE
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J,
Thats a big post - fair play for putting it together - I am interested in this, so I will dig through your info and have a look - I think it is important to have a state funded public body, without bias, so I am motivated to look!
I think if there is bias, it should be challenged, and we shouldn't just cancel all of RTE (or any such organisation) because of it, otherwise we can open to the door to further biased organisations..
Sound. I agree btw. I'm not in favor of dismantling RTE. I would rather see them reformed to focus entirely on Irish current affairs, history, culture, arts, sport, etc. No more reality tv and soaps and nonsense like that. And scrap the license. Fund it from general taxation. It could be done for far less than it currently costs. So we're in agreement on it continuing to exist in any case!0 -
Incidentally, for all this talk of bias, I am still waiting to read about one concrete example of such bias. I would have thought its easy, but so far, other than some anecdotal evidence, no one has presented any.
It is 100% obvious to everybody that RTE and the IT are biased towards certain issues.
For example, when discussing DP, have you ever heard RTE state the facts that the vast majority of AS are bogus?
They should report the truth.
They do not report the truth.
They report as if AS are hard done by, as if they are being imprisoned, when in fact AS are free to leave DP at any time they like.
They don't state: "this person's long spell in DP is due to them appealing and appealing"
RTE do not tell the full truth - what they need to say in their reports is that the vast majority of AS are bogus, illegal immigrants.
In a specific case, Claire Byrne cut off the owner of a SuperValu in Cork, as they were just about to describe the trouble caused by bogus African AS in their store.
To be fair to the IT, they do report on the bogus AS tearing up their travel docs on the plane, and the many criminal Albanians and Georgians trying to falsely claim asylum.
The IT also reported on the male Asian criminals claiming asylum, and getting involved in sham marriages.
What the IT are very bad at is "New to the Parish" series - they never question how the immigrants got into the country.0 -
Ken,
I'll happily take on your challenge. It's actually quite easy to demonstrate an overwhelmingly liberal bias from RTE.
Step 1: Go to rte.ie/news
Step 2: Tap the search icon in the top right.
Step 3: Type in Brainstorm Immigration
Step 4: Press Search (results are ordered by relevance but can also be sorted by date)
Now, firstly, what is "Brainstorm"? Brainstorm is where RTE give a platform to various third level academics and some other figures from govt funded bodies (eg. the Irish Research Council). RTE also explicitly state they have full and final editorial control over what gets published. Fair enough. As long as there's no bias, right? We need diversity of opinion, yes? So, as a publicly funded state broadcaster with a mandate to be as objective and impartial as possible, I'm expecting a wide range of liberal and illiberal opinions alike. Let's see what we have.
1,160 results.
Ok, go through each of the articles presented. I went through the first 5 pages or so (about 50 articles). They are overwhelmingly liberal: pro mass immigration, pro multiculturalism, pro diversity, etc. Others present a narrative sympathetic to migrants, presenting them as being hard working, good for Ireland, a real boon for the nation. Others tell stories of alleged racism or hardships they faced.
Interestingly, the focus seems to be primarily directed toward their supposed economic benefit. Not as much on culture, social cohesion, integration, and things of that sort. Not much distinction made either between racial groups. Nigerian, Pakistani, Polish, Chinese - RTE seem to lump them all together. They're all just "immigrants". "New Irish". Interesting. There's nothing that could be called critical of the rapidly changing demographic makeup of the island. I haven't gone through the entire 1,160 returned results so I won't claim there's literally zero, but I am certain that the balance is extremely in favour of mass immigration.
Yes.
I have written for RTE Brainstorm.
Now the issue here is that the unis and IoTs are massively tilted towards socialists/Labour/ SJW/etc.
That is very obvious.
Also, these lecturers are good are pushing these issues.
Nobody will ever write a article: "Travellers poor outcomes is linked to their own choice of lifestyle and education"0 -
Here's a good one.
Wait until St. Patrick's Day.
Both RTE and probably the IT will have an African child on the front cover - "the new Irish".
Two things wrong with this:
(1) if I moved to Japan, am I Japanese? No, obviously not. If a Mexican moves to Turkey, are they Turkish? No. Yet if an African moves to Ireland, they suddenly become Irish, in the eyes of RTE and the IT!!!
(2) there is an underlying presumption that:
Ireland nation-state = bad
Ireland must allow illegal immigration
All immigrants are good, even illegal immigrants
Illegal immigrants are not to be questioned, they are to be rewarded
We must have positive discrimination to push immigrants, even illegal immigrants, into higher education, positions of power, teaching jobs, etc.
No pride in the nation-state
Personally, I would never think of Japan:
Japan is full of Japanese people, that's bad, not enough diversity
Brazilians, Turks, Angolans should be allowed go to Japan and live there
Mexicans, Sudanese should get jobs as teachers in Japanese schools
Yet, that's exactly what RTE and the IT suggest about Ireland!!! Would they be as quick to suggest it for China?0 -
Bias by RTE can be found on a daily basis; in fact it is now a constant stream of bias from them on all their platforms. On this morning's RTE Radio1's coverage of the Republican convention, their expert on the topic was a UCD professor from the The Clinton Institute. The Clinton Institute? And of course the professor just used the time slot to ridicule and denigrate the current US president and extol the virtues of the Joe Biden, the democratic presidential nominee. The Democratic convention was last week and they didn't have an "expert" from the republican side to explain the workings of that convention.
...... What they instead do is frame the issue in a liberal manner. Choice of language. What stories they cover and don't cover (lying by omission). Choice of photograph thumbnail - they LOVE unflattering ones of Trump in particular where he looks a bit too orange and saturated or gesturing wildly like some crazed dictator, pulling a silly face, etc. Obama? Not so much. Statesmanly. Calm. Dignified.
Subtle things like that is how they "lie". Not with the objective facts per se, but with the framing and narrative, language, selective quotations, headline bias, lack of proper context, etc.
...
What should alarm many of you though is how RTE believe that the Irish people are too ignorant to recognise the bias that they push; they truly believe that the majority in this country will soak it up .... hook, line, and sinker.
RTE are no longer our national broadcaster, so funding should be withdrawn from them. Let them survive on their own if they cannot report and present in an impartial manner.0 -
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RTE are no longer our national broadcaster, so funding should be withdrawn from them. Let them survive on their own if they cannot report and present in an impartial manner.
Exactly. RTE had a place up to about 10/20 years ago. Over the last decade they have abandoned their role and started pushing agendas that undermine the majority of Irish people. Time to go.
The European Cup final not being on RTE this week is a sign that they are slashing budgets for sports that people will actually watch. The most significant football match on the planet this year. It must be years since RTE didn't show a European Cup final. Even back in the 80s it would have been covered well.0 -
RTE are no longer our national broadcaster, so funding should be withdrawn from them. Let them survive on their own if they cannot report and present in an impartial manner.
But why, because cancel culture is trendy now?
Why not push for reform? I don't understand how an argument can be made on 'bias' but the solution is to cancel. That doesn't really guarantee that bias in the media will be resolved. It just cancels RTE. What happens if the replacement for rte is also biased? Or is able to directly push gov propaganda (Hungarian model, for example)?
Or are you happy with a biased media if you also agree with the bias?
I ask this of anyone that talks about obvious bias, why cancel as opposed to change?0 -
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What exactly is brainstorm and it's history?
https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2017/0602/879925-brainstorm-submission/
Its history? It's designed to disseminate academic work to the general public.
I don't know for sure, but I think it has existed for maybe 3-5 years?
Lecturers submit articles to Jim Carroll, the editor.
He advises on style, format, and he edits the text.0 -
Funding should be removed because RTE have shown that they will not change. If the residents of this country want partial and biased news and presentation, then RTE will have no problem surviving in a self-sufficient manner by the subscriptions of those supporters, coupled with ad revenue.
I ask this of anyone that talks about obvious bias, why cancel as opposed to change?0 -
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Subtle things like that is how they "lie". Not with the objective facts per se, but with the framing and narrative, language, selective quotations, headline bias, lack of proper context, etc.
Yes, correct.
Say a survey shows travellers have low rates of going to college.
The truth is: this is mainly due to travellers not putting enough weight on education, for not attending school, for leaving school early, etc.
So the outcome is due to their own decisions.
There are supports, grants, SUSI, etc.
But the slant RTE will put on it is as follows:
"it is society's fault"
Therefore, RTE don't tell the full story, the truth.
I have spoken to an Educational Welfare Office, EWO, and travellers have high absence rates from school. This is the truth.
But RTE doesn't report the truth, as it doesn't fit the narrative:
"it's all society's and the Government's fault"
They don't put enough focus on personal responsibility, which is a reflection of their socialist-leaning staff.0 -
Do you seriously believe RTE is a highly ethical journalistic outlet? Simply looking up RTE and BLM proves me point. There's hardly any negative news, even though there is much ammo in regards to negativity surrounding the movement. America had months of chaos following this stuff, yet if you read RTE you'd think it was all rosy. You can do the same for many other topics, where they are simply only showing one side of a story. If you think that's good or ethical journalism then you're the problem too. Journalism isn't people telling you what you like, it's people telling you the truth, which you may not like.
I have my issues with RTE and how it's funded, but compared to a lot of so called news outlets, especially in the States, they are far superior.
The drivel about "bias" only comes from **** who don't like what they're hearing, especially when it's about their political heroes or a hot button topic for which they want their own opinions to be reflected.
And RTE's BLM coverage wasn't all "rosy". Don't talk bollocks. They showed the people pulling down statues. They showed shops having to be shut up because of riots, etc. They reported the news as it happened and with what could be corroborated by fact. Just because they weren't offering a condemnation at the end of a report, it doesn't mean it was "rosy".
News reporting isn't supposed to do that.
They may not have been telling it the way YOU WANTED TO HEAR IT, but that doesn't mean their reporting was wanting.0 -
I have my issues with RTE and how it's funded, but compared to a lot of so called news outlets, especially in the States, they are far superior.
The drivel about "bias" only comes from **** who don't like what they're hearing, especially when it's about their political heroes or a hot button topic for which they want their own opinions to be reflected.
Couple of issues here.
Firstly, RTE is a taxpayer funded organisation and has an explicitly defined remit to NOT be partial to any particular ideological bias. Comparing them to US news outlets is simply a faulty comparison. CNN vs FOX, NYT vs Breitbart, etc - these are private entities who are allowed to have a bias. Not so for a state broadcaster.
Secondly, the bias, as I have clearly demonstrated in this thread a few posts up, is undeniable. You can claim this isn't the case, but you must first show evidence to counter it. Unless you are willing and able to do so, your claims about the impartiality of RTE can be dismissed as ignorant and unserious at best. The bias is clear, explicit and measurable. It is simply irrational to claim otherwise, but please, show me the evidence if you have it.0 -
Couple of issues here.
Firstly, RTE is a taxpayer funded organisation and has an explicitly defined remit to NOT be partial to any particular ideological bias. Comparing them to US news outlets is simply a faulty comparison. CNN vs FOX, NYT vs Breitbart, etc - these are private entities who are allowed to have a bias. Not so for a state broadcaster.
Secondly, the bias, as I have clearly demonstrated in this thread a few posts up, is undeniable. You can claim this isn't the case, but you must first show evidence to counter it. Unless you are willing and able to do so, your claims about the impartiality of RTE can be dismissed as ignorant and unserious at best. The bias is clear, explicit and measurable. It is simply irrational to claim otherwise, but please, show me the evidence if you have it.
You have mentioned a possible SINGLE case that has yet to be verified by anyone else. So as yet it remains an opinion of yours.
Likewise, I was commenting on RTE's news reporting, so the comparisons with "other news outlets" and their shortcomings re: "bias" is perfectly valid. I find that RTE's efforts at reporting the news events around the world and at home to be relatively impartial and handled with a general adherence to that ideal.
I can't and won't comment on other areas of it's broadcasting, because I don't watch much of it.0 -
.... doth protest too much, methinks.I have my issues with RTE and how it's funded, but compared to a lot of so called news outlets, especially in the States, they are far superior.
The drivel about "bias" only comes from **** who don't like what they're hearing, especially when it's about their political heroes or a hot button topic for which they want their own opinions to be reflected.
And RTE's BLM coverage wasn't all "rosy". Don't talk bollocks. They showed the people pulling down statues. They showed shops having to be shut up because of riots, etc. They reported the news as it happened and with what could be corroborated by fact. Just because they weren't offering a condemnation at the end of a report, it doesn't mean it was "rosy".
News reporting isn't supposed to do that.
They may not have been telling it the way YOU WANTED TO HEAR IT, but that doesn't mean their reporting was wanting.0 -
You have mentioned a possible SINGLE case that has yet to be verified by anyone else. So as yet it remains an opinion of yours.
It is not a single case. This is a misunderstanding of my post. It works for any number of subjects and across all reporting (news, culture, entertainment, sport, etc). Here, I'll give you another example to prove it:
https://www.rte.ie/search/query/diversity
Diversity, feminism, lgbt, abortion, gay marriage, free speech, immigration, BLM...doesn't matter the subject. Pick any. The foundational narrative is always one of progressivism and liberalism. It is never illiberal. Pick an article. Any one. Find me one that isn't either explicitly pro-diversity or implicitly pro-diversity. Diversity as a social good is taken as a given. There's no questioning the premise at all. Find me an article that has an illiberal narrative, that questions the foundational assumption of diversity being anything other than a positive for society. And if you miraculously can find one, find me another. And then another. And then another. Until they balance out.
But it's not just that RTE is biased. They clearly are to anybody with eyes, ears and a moderate level of pattern recognition. It's that the bias is so overwhelming, it's hard to even believe.0 -
It is not a single case. This is a misunderstanding of my post. It works for any number of subjects and across all reporting (news, culture, entertainment, sport, etc). Here, I'll give you another example to prove it:
https://www.rte.ie/search/query/diversity
Diversity, feminism, lgbt, abortion, gay marriage, free speech, immigration, BLM...doesn't matter the subject. Pick any. The foundational narrative is always one of progressivism and liberalism. It is never illiberal. Pick an article. Any one. Find me one that isn't either explicitly pro-diversity or implicitly pro-diversity. Diversity as a social good is taken as a given. There's no questioning the premise at all. Find me an article that has an illiberal narrative, that questions the foundational assumption of diversity being anything other than a positive for society. And if you miraculously can find one, find me another. And then another. And then another. Until they balance out.
But it's not just that RTE is biased. They clearly are to anybody with eyes, ears and a moderately-average level pattern recognition. It's that the bias is so overwhelming, it's hard to even believe.
You aren't "proving" anything. You're simply stating that you aren't hearing what you want to hear and you aren't having your own opinions massaged.0 -
RTÉ left wing bias lols0
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You aren't "proving" anything. You're simply stating that you aren't hearing what you want to hear and you aren't having your own opinions massaged.
Ok, you're clearly either not arguing in good faith or you don't understand my post. It's not about my subjective feelings. I am pointing out objective, demonstrable, measurable bias from a state-funded broadcaster tasked explicitly with being impartial.
Yes, I am not "hearing what I want to hear", but that is NOT the issue at hand.
The issue at hand is that I presented proof of this fact, and you dismiss it. Sorry, but that's not going to fly. I think you're not being intellectually honest here. Just show me articles with an illiberal narrative across the RTE categories and I'll stand corrected. It shouldn't be a complicated issue.
Is it?0 -
Ok, you're clearly either not arguing in good faith or you don't understand my post. It's not about my subjective feelings. I am pointing out objective, demonstrable, measurable bias from a state-funded broadcaster tasked explicitly with being impartial.
Yes, I am not "hearing what I want to hear", but that is NOT the issue at hand.
The issue at hand is that I presented proof of this fact, and you dismiss it. Sorry, but that's not going to fly. I think you're not being intellectually honest here. Just show me articles with an illiberal narrative across the RTE categories and I'll stand corrected. It shouldn't be a complicated issue.
Is it?
You aren't "objective" in slightest.0 -
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Still waiting on those illiberal articles from RTE. Take your time.
But the absence of one thing doesn't prove the opposite?
The point is to show bias,bin not convinced we have seen that.
We should probably define what the test of bias is before going too deep in back and forth arguments as the goal here is to complain officially and not follow the private lobyist example of 'cancel'0 -
But, suppose, hear me out on this. The bias is based on what RTÉ perceives the majority of its audience, and therefore its advertisers market, are looking for? Maybe it bases its biases on opinion poll results, election results, advertiser feedback etc.
Because RTÉ is still a company in the business of selling advertising slots it has to balance what will keep advertisers coming to them alongside their commitment to public service broadcasting. Opinion polls would suggest there are very little anti liberal people to be represented out there and very little evidence that they would make Ireland a happier place to live. The Nationalist party all but crashed and burned in the last election, what evidence is there that they have something meaningful to say to society?0 -
But, suppose, hear me out on this. The bias is based on what RTÉ perceives the majority of its audience, and therefore its advertisers market, are looking for? Maybe it bases its biases on opinion poll results, election results, advertiser feedback etc.
Because RTÉ is still a company in the business of selling advertising slots it has to balance what will keep advertisers coming to them alongside their commitment to public service broadcasting. Opinion polls would suggest there are very little anti liberal people to be represented out there and very little evidence that they would make Ireland a happier place to live. The Nationalist party all but crashed and burned in the last election, what evidence is there that they have something meaningful to say to society?
The Above may or may not be the case, I don't know. But on the matter of RTE's news reporting, I have been watching that since Don Cockburn was presenting it and it has always been presented in a cold and impartial manner with none of the so called "bias" one keeps hearing about from certain quarters who only want their opinions repeated back at them.
They report on what's happening, not what their opinion is on what's happening. This for some is "proof" of a so called "left wing bias", which is a load of old baloney.0 -
I'm sorry, but the vast vast majority of BAME ppl in this country are foreigners.
I lived in this country most of my life and I know that the input socially and politically from foreigners is virtually nil.
If you made your point 100 years from now it might make some sense.
Quite interesting you are saying *I'm* in a minority now.
nothing interesting about it at all, it's not you who are in the minority but the views you hold.
they are in such a minority that it would not be possible for rte to cover them and the only people who have some sort of an ability to put themselves out there and try (and thankfully fail) to represent them on a national level are headbangers who quite rightly nobody would listen to.Do you seriously believe RTE is a highly ethical journalistic outlet? Simply looking up RTE and BLM proves me point. There's hardly any negative news, even though there is much ammo in regards to negativity surrounding the movement. America had months of chaos following this stuff, yet if you read RTE you'd think it was all rosy. You can do the same for many other topics, where they are simply only showing one side of a story. If you think that's good or ethical journalism then you're the problem too. Journalism isn't people telling you what you like, it's people telling you the truth, which you may not like.
the articles on rte's website report matters from an irish standpoint and are more aimed to irish abroad then you or me who would have easy access to their terrestrial services.
so from an irish standpoint there are no real negatives to blm, as yes while they should have not gone ahead with their irish protest given the covid situation it was a peaceful protest.
rte don't show one side, they show just the facts, facts are facts and don't do sides.
telling the truth, rather then telling you what you like, is what rte does hence the whinging from some on here because their ultra-minority views can't get coverage because there are nobody who is coherent to represent them.ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.
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But, suppose, hear me out on this. The bias is based on what RTÉ perceives the majority of its audience, and therefore its advertisers market, are looking for? Maybe it bases its biases on opinion poll results, election results, advertiser feedback etc.
Because RTÉ is still a company in the business of selling advertising slots it has to balance what will keep advertisers coming to them alongside their commitment to public service broadcasting. Opinion polls would suggest there are very little anti liberal people to be represented out there and very little evidence that they would make Ireland a happier place to live. The Nationalist party all but crashed and burned in the last election, what evidence is there that they have something meaningful to say to society?
It is obviously not very successful at this, given it is losing money hand over fist and even this current government recognise that this can't go on.
If it was giving people what they wanted it would be able to stand on its own two feet, or at least not cost the taxpayer a fortune.
RTE should remember that you are coming to us looking for funds. Not the other way round. The onus is on you to justify your existence. Prove that the above philosophy washes it's face commercially please.0 -
But the absence of one thing doesn't prove the opposite?
The point is to show bias,bin not convinced we have seen that.
We should probably define what the test of bias is before going too deep in back and forth arguments as the goal here is to complain officially and not follow the private lobyist example of 'cancel'
You're not convinced you've seen it? Are you serious?
From the first page of results when you type in "immigration":
https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2018/0203/938046-the-push-and-pull-factors-behind-migration-to-europe/
https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2019/0418/1043389-why-allowing-migrant-spouses-to-work-is-a-win-for-irish-economy/
https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2018/1108/1009503-why-undocumented-migrants-should-be-given-a-legal-right-to-stay/
There you go. Three articles that all explicitly push for a pro-migrant agenda. Implicit ones are even more numerous. Are you suggesting that these 3 are not of a liberal and progressive bent? Of course they are. Anyone claiming otherwise is being dishonest.
Now, find me 3 that push for the opposite.
This is a very simple test to determine bias.0 -
But, suppose, hear me out on this. The bias is based on what RTÉ perceives the majority of its audience, and therefore its advertisers market, are looking for? Maybe it bases its biases on opinion poll results, election results, advertiser feedback etc.
Because RTÉ is still a company in the business of selling advertising slots it has to balance what will keep advertisers coming to them alongside their commitment to public service broadcasting. Opinion polls would suggest there are very little anti liberal people to be represented out there and very little evidence that they would make Ireland a happier place to live. The Nationalist party all but crashed and burned in the last election, what evidence is there that they have something meaningful to say to society?
Actually, the opposite is the case. When you poll people about things like immigration, hate speech, etc they are overwhelmingly illiberal in their beliefs. Patriotic Alternative, a new UK nationalist party proved this with a massive survey in England. Polling data also consistently shows that when directly asked about these issues, things like mass immigration are unpopular. There are many reasons why a new party like the National Party polled so low.
One of them would be the refusal of RTE to give them a platform to make their case. Oh wait... RTE are supposed to be unbiased, right...0 -
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Arthur Daley wrote: »It is obviously not very successful at this, given it is losing money hand over fist and even this current government recognise that this can't go on.
If it was giving people what they wanted it would be able to stand on its own two feet, or at least not cost the taxpayer a fortune.
RTE should remember that you are coming to us looking for funds. Not the other way round. The onus is on you to justify your existence. Prove that the above philosophy washes it's face commercially please.
It's wasting money on people like Ryan Tubridy and other grossly overpaid "stars", which is why they go cap in hand looking to raise the licence fee every so often.
It has nothing to do with a so called "bias", as reckoned by those who don't get their opinions about immigrants repeated back at them. :pac:
Frankly, outside of RTE's news reporting, it's programming is very poor in my opinion and certainly doesn't reflect any value for money that's given to them from licence fee receipt.
But as far as actual reporting on current affairs as they happen, they remain very good. Personally, I'd like them to produce more current affairs programs. God be with the days when 'Today Tonight' was on the air, or 'Questions and Answers'.0
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