Defund RTE

end of the road

Kivaro wrote: »

There you go folks. That's the reason why only one side of that particular topic is ever broadcast by our main stream media.
If one does not glowingly welcome asylum seekers and non-EU economic migrants into Ireland, then your voice will not be heard on our national broadcaster. And if you dare to utter a question that doesn't go along with the biased liberal GroupThink quango, then you are a racist.

perhapse when we get individuals able to argue the topic who aren't, you know, racist headbangers then your voice will be heard on rte.
it's not rte's fault, or everyone else's fault, that there are no coherent individuals able to put across your message without resorting to racist guff.

Geuze wrote: »

Indeed, you are correct, so effective is the bias in RTE and other media, that many people think that AS are genuine.

Whereas the truth is:

(1) all Albanian and Georgian AS are bogus

All this has been reported, to be fair to the IT, they reported how these bogus AS tear up their docs in the aircraft. Also, Varadkar confirmed this.

The good news is the checks were moved to the aircraft to catch these criminals earlier.

Can you believe this - groups representing immigrants here opposed moving the checks from the airport to the aircraft!!

Can you imagine opposing the police using better techniques to catch criminals?

(2) all Asian AS are bogus

Many of these Indians and Pak were involved in sham marriages. Look up Operation Vantage

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/more-than-1-000-marriages-in-republic-confirmed-as-illegal-1.3536635

Again, to be fair to the IT, and the Indo, they did report on the huge scale of the criminality involved.

The IT reported on the ringleader, Mohammed Romi Ramzan being arrested while playing cricket in Dublin:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/lucrative-sham-marriage-scam-brought-to-an-end-at-dublin-cricket-match-1.3504893


The ESRI also reported how 50% of the Asian are fleeing.......from guess where........have a guess, that hotbed of war and persecution............the UK!!



So, to be fair, some media do report the truth, and more truth can be found if you dig.

Yet, many people still think that AS are genuine.

So some other media or something must be more effective at spreading non-truths, or not telling the full stories.

there is no belief that every single AS is genuine.
there is quite rightly an exceptance that some certainly are genuine and others aren't, that's nothing to do with rte or mythical bias.
i'm not bothered groups opposed the moving of the checks from the airport to the aircraft, doing checks on an aircraft means longer down time and no doubt delays to passengers who may be traveling on that aircraft wherever it is heading to next.
all your articles show is that some foreign nationals are criminals, something never denied by anyone, they don't show that all AS are bogus.

AllForIt

J_M_G wrote: »

Sound. I agree btw. I'm not in favor of dismantling RTE. I would rather see them reformed to focus entirely on Irish current affairs, history, culture, arts, sport, etc. No more reality tv and soaps and nonsense like that. And scrap the license. Fund it from general taxation. It could be done for far less than it currently costs. So we're in agreement on it continuing to exist in any case!

I hardly watch RTE anymore, but I say that's exactly what they do - to excess.

RTE never shuts up about sports and heritage. I was unlucky enough to be at my folks this even where Nationwide was on. They were talking about Seamus Heaney and Maureen O'Hara. If it's not heritage it's Irish scenery, where comically when they do a pan shot of some hills you can see they shot it between the heavy downpours of rain. I always thinks that's so funny. It's just so obvious.

And if it's not that it's some ordinary people thing, like some young family trying to figure out with a money expert how they can save money so they can go on their holidays and not break the bank. Or some Mick trying to loose weight. I just can't bear that kind of programming.

Even the television commercials are all done in the same slant, video of kids/family at some team sport event swinging their arms up in the air at a goal, and even one I saw today at the Nationwide commercial break, which I think was a add for Rennie, where some Irish woman was saying 'inclusivity is at the heart of what we do here'. WTF.

It's all brainwashing nonsense.

RTE have a clear agenda. It doesn't matter if you think it's a good agenda or a bad one, whether you agree with it or not. The point is they have an agenda. Nothing could be more obvious. That is not impartiality. It's the principle of the thing that matters to me.

elperello

AllForIt wrote: »

I hardly watch RTE anymore, but I say that's exactly what they do - to excess.

RTE never shuts up about sports and heritage. I was unlucky enough to be at my folks this even where Nationwide was on. They were talking about Seamus Heaney and Maureen O'Hara. If it's not heritage it's Irish scenery, where comically when they do a pan shot of some hills you can see they shot it between the heavy downpours of rain. I always thinks that's so funny. It's just so obvious.

And if it's not that it's some ordinary people thing, like some young family trying to figure out with a money expert how they can save money so they can go on their holidays and not break the bank. Or some Mick trying to loose weight. I just can't bear that kind of programming.

Even the television commercials are all done in the same slant, video of kids/family at some team sport event swinging their arms up in the air at a goal, and even one I saw today at the Nationwide commercial break, which I think was a add for Rennie, where some Irish woman was saying 'inclusivity is at the heart of what we do here'. WTF.

It's all brainwashing nonsense.

RTE have a clear agenda. It doesn't matter if you think it's a good agenda or a bad one, whether you agree with it or not. The point is they have an agenda. Nothing could be more obvious. That is not impartiality. It's the principle of the thing that matters to me.

It's ok that you don't like some of the programmes. Most of us have shows we don't like to watch.

Interesting that your parents were watching Nationwide. People like it and the way it highlights different parts of the country.

Maureen O'Hara and Seamus Heaney were at the top of their game in their chosen fields. They were internationally acclaimed and they were our own.Why would we not celebrate their lives?

That museum in Foynes is a gem and the whole Shannon Estuary is an often overlooked part of Ireland.

AllForIt

elperello wrote: »

It's ok that you don't like some of the programmes. Most of us have shows we don't like to watch.

Interesting that your parents were watching Nationwide. People like it and the way it highlights different parts of the country.

Maureen O'Hara and Seamus Heaney were at the top of their game in their chosen fields. They were internationally acclaimed and they were our own.Why would we not celebrate their lives?

That museum in Foynes is a gem and the whole Shannon Estuary is an often overlooked part of Ireland.

I don't really see much of a rebuttal to my main point here.

I never said there was anything wrong with it per se, I'm saying they are doing it to excess. That's what I said. I gives me a headache. And I think it's all a bit full of ourselves. Stroking your Irishness. Isn't that a bit ironic.

elperello

AllForIt wrote: »

I don't really see much of a rebuttal to my main point here.

I never said there was anything wrong with it per se, I'm saying they are doing it to excess. That's what I said. I gives me a headache. And I think it's all a bit full of ourselves. Stroking your Irishness. Isn't that a bit ironic.

I'm sorry but if RTE gives you a headache because it's too Irish I don't have any solution for you.

Being Irish and reflecting our sport, culture, music etc. is it's USP.

AllForIt

elperello wrote: »

I'm sorry but if RTE gives you a headache because it's too Irish I don't have any solution for you.

Being Irish and reflecting our sport, culture, music etc. is it's USP.

I can think of one solution. Don't make the licence fee mandatory, or a criminal offence for not paying it.


edit: on that note I have never complained about the content of independent Irish TV stations or independent radio stations either. I would have no right to, I can just not watch. But with RTE it's different because of the licence fee.

elperello

AllForIt wrote: »

I can think of one solution. Don't make the licence fee mandatory, or a criminal offence for not paying it.

There we can agree.

I have often suggested in various threads about RTE that the licence should be abolished and replaced by direct funding from the exchequer.

No collection costs, no enforcement costs and everyone pays a little from their general taxes.

yrreg0850

If RTE want to save money, they could shut down either one (or both) RTE 1 and 2 television overnight .
After all why have the two channels showing the same programme overnight.
Both carry Euronews between about 1.30 and 6 am.

Varik

Direct funding would be the worst thing that could happen, they'd continue into irrelevancy and give themselves a fat pay-rise as it's happening without ever having to face their failures.

elperello

Varik wrote: »

Direct funding would be the worst thing that could happen, they'd continue into irrelevancy and give themselves a fat pay-rise as it's happening without ever having to face their failures.

If that was allowed it would be the worst thing.

It doesn't have to be like that.

With proper oversight and set targets with agreed deliverables it could be the best thing.

But first we have to decide what we want.

riclad

Rte provides employment for 100s of people. They make drama, s news programs documentarys, radio programs , sports coverage, arts programs. They support Irish musicians and writers.
If they were privatised we, d just end up with another version of tv3. Mostly UK programs with a few very cheaply made Irish programs like breakfast tv.
Just because you do not like some of their political reporting is not a good reason to close
the whole network down. If you don't like it don't watch it.
The exception is 2fm radio.
Why do we need
a Taxpayer funded pop music radio station. We have 98fm.104 fm, classic hits
Etc
Apart from the dave fanning show I see no value in 2fm versus 104 or 98fm

Varik

elperello wrote: »

If that was allowed it would be the worst thing.

It doesn't have to be like that.

With proper oversight and set targets with agreed deliverables it could be the best thing.

But first we have to decide what we want.

How many things can you think of that have had proper oversight ever when public funds were involved.

elperello

Varik wrote: »

How many things can you think of that have had proper oversight ever when public funds were involved.

If we give up and say it's too hard things will not change and we just muddle along.

nj27

kenmm wrote: »

Cute. But it doesn't help, particularly when only one person has put any effort into finding something that remotely shows the possibility of bias.

There are still no examples of bias in the news or the reporting toward any subject.

It would be good to keep this thread to the topic at hand (defunding RTE, allegedly because if bias) instead of the usual polarised left Vs right arguing.

Have you looked for any bias to counter your opinion? Have you looked up any issue which separates left and right and followed it with "RTE" to see which side they come down on? Have you ever watched RTE? What you are claiming is sufficiently absurd that it can be dismissed out of hand.

Varik

elperello wrote: »

If we give up and say it's too hard things will not change and we just muddle along.

Thing'll change even if nothing is done, dropping ad and license revenue will make sure of that.

kenmm

nj27 wrote: »

Have you looked for any bias to counter your opinion? Have you looked up any issue which separates left and right and followed it with "RTE" to see which side they come down on? Have you ever watched RTE? What you are claiming is sufficiently absurd that it can be dismissed out of hand.

I meant no one has provided examples of news bias, only 'brainstorm'. I didn't say there wasn't. I don't generally think there is bias, but I am am looking beyond my own bias for examples.

What's absurd about that?

Kivaro

kenmm wrote: »

I meant no one has provided examples of news bias, only 'brainstorm'. I didn't say there wasn't. I don't generally think there is bias, but I am am looking beyond my own bias for examples.

What's absurd about that?

Your posts are indeed disingenuous. You were provided many examples. I posted about the RTE Radio1 news interview yesterday of a person on their views of the Republican national convention. They interviewed an expert from the Clinton Institute, who went on to just portray the convention in a negative light. RTE could have easily interviewed someone on the Republican side.
We're still waiting for the RTE posters on here to provide examples on RTE unbiased reporting on asylum seekers or non-EU migrants. Unbiased = views from both sides.

There is no sense of fairness or impartiality at RTE.

Kivaro

Varik wrote: »

Direct funding would be the worst thing that could happen, they'd continue into irrelevancy and give themselves a fat pay-rise as it's happening without ever having to face their failures.

Exactly.
This is the end goal for RTE ......... funding from direct taxation, as it would allow them to operate with an open cheque book and unlimited funds. We will be told that accountability would be put in place, but we all know that RTE would drain our tax payments in order to increase the salaries of their stars and staff, and further enhance their high-end lifestyles.

RTE badly needs a root to branch reorganisation, as they are currently not fit for purpose. How posters on here justify the staggering financial losses and poor quality programs and reporting at RTE is beyond most rational thinking people.

kenmm

Kivaro wrote: »

Your posts are indeed disingenuous. You were provided many examples. I posted about the RTE Radio1 news interview yesterday of a person on their views of the Republican national convention. They interviewed an expert from the Clinton Institute, who went on to just portray the convention in a negative light. RTE could have easily interviewed someone on the Republican side.
We're still waiting for the RTE posters on here to provide examples on RTE unbiased reporting on asylum seekers or non-EU migrants. Unbiased = views from both sides.

There is no sense of fairness or impartiality at RTE.

There has been one concrete example of potentially biased reporting (brainstorm, provided by J). Anything without links is anecdotal and not verifiable.

RE the "Unbiased = views from both sides". - I don't agree that you need to have views from "both sides" - for a start - there isn't two sides to any story (These days we like to polarise everything into for and against, left vs right etc, but its not right). I think one of the failings of the BBC (for example) is they are so intent on providing "views from all sides" that natural debate is interrupted by disproportionate views from many groups (but that is another topic).

The thread is about RTE bias. Its up to those who claim bias to demonstrate this. I am interested in this subject and will, given time, look at these claims.

Additionally, I have yet to hear why we should cancel RTE (other than cancel culture being trendy at the moment) based on arguments of bias, rather than addressing the bias. I bet not one of those who claim it have done anything about it.

Geuze

kenmm wrote: »

Additionally, I have yet to hear why we should cancel RTE (other than cancel culture being trendy at the moment) based on arguments of bias, rather than addressing the bias. I bet not one of those who claim it have done anything about it.

There is no need to "cancel RTE".

What could be done is to reduce its costs.

It has a 1970s unionised, demarcation culture.

Two examples:

(1) cameraman gets say 40 an hour, okay fair enough. But the union rules say his helper, the guy who swings/moves the camera, also gets a high wage

(2) this is direct from an RTE employee: say a worker calls to regional office outside of normal hours, say to check post, this takes 15 mins, but they get 5 hrs minimum overtime

(3) the same RTE employee tells me of a time the union shop steward walked past him, and pointed out little things that he is due more money for

(4) the same RTE employee has often spoken about large travel/subsistence expenses


All of these excessive costs could be cut, while protecting base pay.

To be fair, RTE staff were one of the few (the only?) semi-state staff to take a pay cut during 2008-2012, while the ESB did not. The PS saw two-four pay cuts.

Also, to be fair, the former DB pension at RTE has been reformed into a DB/DC hybrid, and staff pension conts are increased.

Mad_maxx

Most news outlets have an editorial slant, the BBC is often accused of having a left leaning editorial slant, SKY news is often accused of having a right leaning editorial, personally I think both BBC and SKY are not outrageously biased, sky is nothing like FOX news and BBC is much less obvious left leaning than RTE

RTE are left on any topic ,not just issues like direct provision, cultural referendums like marriage equality, they're explicitly pro the big state ,public sector unions are soft balled during interviews and shown incredible deference despite being unelected, it's common to see a public sector union head on a radio panel discussing weakly events

More public spending is seen as an unequivocal good ,tax cuts prompt frowns and questions towards those advocating them of " is this irresponsible and affordable '

There's nothing wrong with being left, the Guardian newspaper is unashamedly of the left, so too is RTE in an equally quintessential middle class liberal way,the Guardian doesn't rely on the tax payer however

I see no reason why we need a national broadcaster anymore than a national airliner?

Geuze

kenmm wrote: »

There has been one concrete example of potentially biased reporting (brainstorm, provided by J). Anything without links is anecdotal and not verifiable.

When I discuss social/economic issues with my friend, an RTE employee, I sometimes ask why they don't report on such an issue, or report a certain aspect of an issue. He often replies with:

"but you can't say that"

meaning that although what I said is true, they won't report that side of a story.


I don't know what more evidence you need.


An RTE employee stating directly to me, and others, in friendly conversation, that true aspects of Irish society can not be stated on RTE, due to the current culture.


This all harks back to an underlying philosophy.

They don't ask the hard questions.

Example: Margaret Cash, or any other homeless person, with very young babies

RTE never ask:

(1) where is your husband?
(2) where is the father of your children? Why isn't he supporting you?
(3) why did you have another baby during homelessness?

Obviously, there aren't enough house, and rents are way too high.


This applies in other media, and applies in other areas.


A newspaper interviewed an AS who was living here, who admitted in the interview that they returned back to their country of origin on holiday, and the reporter did not challenge why somebody fleeing persecution would return there.

Geuze

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Most news outlets have an editorial slant, the BBC is often accused of having a left leaning editorial slant, SKY news is often accused of having a right leaning editorial, personally I think both BBC and SKY are not outrageously biased, sky is nothing like FOX news and BBC is much less obvious left leaning than RTE

RTE are left on any topic ,not just issues like direct provision, cultural referendums like marriage equality, they're explicitly pro the big state ,public sector unions are soft balled during interviews and shown incredible deference despite being unelected, it's common to see a public sector union head on a radio panel discussing weakly events

More public spending is seen as an unequivocal good ,tax cuts prompt frowns and questions towards those advocating them of " is this irresponsible and affordable '

There's nothing wrong with being left, the Guardian newspaper is unashamedly of the left, so too is RTE in an equally quintessential middle class liberal way,the Guardian doesn't rely on the tax payer however

I see no reason why we need a national broadcaster anymore than a national airliner?

I agree with your description of RTE, yes.

But I do see a problem with it being tilted to the left.

Surely it should have a responsibility to show both sides of a discussion / debate?

kenmm

Geuze wrote: »

When I discuss social/economic issues with my friend, an RTE employee, I sometimes ask why they don't report on such an issue, or report a certain aspect of an issue. He often replies with:

"but you can't say that"

meaning that although what I said is true, they won't report that side of a story.


I don't know what more evidence you need.


An RTE employee stating directly to me, and others, in friendly conversation, that true aspects of Irish society can not be stated on RTE, due to the current culture.


This all harks back to an underlying philosophy.

They don't ask the hard questions.

Example: Margaret Cash, or any other homeless person, with very young babies

RTE never ask:

(1) where is your husband?
(2) where is the father of your children? Why isn't he supporting you?
(3) why did you have another baby during homelessness?

Obviously, there aren't enough house, and rents are way too high.


This applies in other media, and applies in other areas.


A newspaper interviewed an AS who was living here, who admitted in the interview that they returned back to their country of origin on holiday, and the reporter did not challenge why somebody fleeing persecution would return there.

Look - I am not being difficult here, and with all respect - someone telling me that "someone they know told them that RTE said" is not evidence. I am serious about trying to find concrete examples of bias that can be flagged with RTE and officially complained about.

Geuze

kenmm wrote: »

Look - I am not being difficult here, and with all respect - someone telling me that "someone they know told them that RTE said" is not evidence. I am serious about trying to find concrete examples of bias that can be flagged with RTE and officially complained about.

It would be difficult to complain about not reporting something?


Is it possible to complain about not doing something? I suppose it is......


I suppose over the next few months, if I remember, I could post links here, to examples of not telling the full truth.

elperello

Varik wrote: »

Thing'll change even if nothing is done, dropping ad and license revenue will make sure of that.

I would prefer to see a more controlled approach to the future of Public Service Broadcasting in Ireland.

If we just carry on as we are you are right things will change but will we get the PBS that we want?

rightmove

Geuze wrote: »

When I discuss social/economic issues with my friend, an RTE employee, I sometimes ask why they don't report on such an issue, or report a certain aspect of an issue. He often replies with:

"but you can't say that"

meaning that although what I said is true, they won't report that side of a story.


I don't know what more evidence you need.


An RTE employee stating directly to me, and others, in friendly conversation, that true aspects of Irish society can not be stated on RTE, due to the current culture.


This all harks back to an underlying philosophy.

They don't ask the hard questions.

Example: Margaret Cash, or any other homeless person, with very young babies

RTE never ask:

(1) where is your husband?
(2) where is the father of your children? Why isn't he supporting you?
(3) why did you have another baby during homelessness?

Obviously, there aren't enough house, and rents are way too high.


This applies in other media, and applies in other areas.


A newspaper interviewed an AS who was living here, who admitted in the interview that they returned back to their country of origin on holiday, and the reporter did not challenge why somebody fleeing persecution would return there.

If there was ever a post to show that rte should be defunded, this is it. I resent having to pay for an agenda to be propagated..that is why it should be funded privately by those who agree with the agenda or got rid of.

Geuze

Here is an example, Claire Byrne cutting short the owner of a SuperValu as he reports on trouble in his store:

https://www.bitchute.com/video/Mm7mmPlCLqDt/

Kivaro

kenmm wrote: »

There has been one concrete example of potentially biased reporting (brainstorm, provided by J). Anything without links is anecdotal and not verifiable.

Once again, totally disingenuous.
You want a link to a segment on RTE Radio 1 news that many thousands of people heard yesterday morning .......... and you don't believe me because I heard it on the radio?
And the many thousands of people who watched Margaret Cash interviewed by RTE on television with one-sided questions? You don't believe that was not bias by RTE. And the race baiter Ebun Joseph who is allowed an unchallenged pulpit by RTE to insult and hurl racism claims at the whole Irish nation.

Every single day you can easily find bias at RTE. Just because your head is in the sand does not mean it is not happening.

Geuze

rightmove wrote: »

If there was ever a post to show that rte should be defunded, this is it. I resent having to pay for an agenda to be propagated..that is why it should be funded privately by those who agree with the agenda or got rid of.

I don't agree with "defund RTE".

All I ask for is:

• reduce demarcation
• reduce inflexible union rules
• reduce excessive overtime/expenses
• BUT this does not reduce basic pay - good staff should be paid well
  
• have a bit more balance in reporting, ask the questions that members of the general public would ask
  
• do not assume that it's always the Govt's fault, outcomes are often due to a lack of personal responsibility